Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Everything seems to be going MP3 now, and personally, I don't like the compression, but I also don't like the compression on CDs. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the pluses too, the portability. But I don't like how it stomps on things, it takes the 'MuSiC' and compresses it to 'music', levels it out. This is what I choose to call, with some distaste, 'topping and tailing'. Yes, it's akin to what you do with currants, only in this instance you slice off the highs and the lows, the head and the feet. What remains is still recognizeable, but it is missing bits. There is that argument that what's missing can't be heard anyway, and more so I'm told the older we get. Well, I've old ears, but I can hear the difference, as between analog with all its problems, and digital CDs, which are often farted around with in unbelievable ways, like processed cheese and ready meals full of Es. I can tell the difference between old field recordings I have of certain musicians, and the field recordings of others after they've been squeezed digitally and burned on to CDs. I still prefer fresh fruit over tinned, or gelatine desserts with artificial colouring and flavouring and added vitamin C...
Here's the wonder of it all, the questions in this. I know that 'sessions', that newish tradition that rose out of the 30s and onward, has had its influence in leveling the music, ironing the dance out of it, even making the rhythm irregular, inconsistent and shaky ~ in some cases, amongst some musicians. I also know that 78s, LPs and cassettes had their influences too, some more than justified, including pushing the music in other directions, like up tempo and toward more bizarre associations and results, sometimes with good humour. Those endless varieties of results are known or guessed at, but what about COMPRESSION ~ compression??? Has or will this flatten things even more? Will it drive the music to more extremes of twee and cutesyness, to the saccharine (artificial sugar that is also a known carcinogen)? Will it result in the loss of lift, or the limitation of it, the dampening of the cut and thrust, the sparks that help the music move along, the dynamo of the dance in music, the dynamics, the rhythm???
The generation coming up is being fed on these compressed bits of musical data, what damage will result by taking this for granted and being bamboozled into accepting that compression can in any way represent the tradition, whatever that tradition is ~ Irish, jazz, classical? Are the effects already evident? Are musicians now emulating the compression they now listen to and take for granted ~ CDs, MP3s? Is there any hope? If you can, find an old LP or cassette from the past and compare that to the same MP3-ed. MP3 it yourself and then listen to the difference, if you can find a turntable or cassette player...ask your folks... It isn't the crackle pop or hum I want you to listen for, it is the rhythm, the lift, the swing, the dance in the music, the playing... Also, realize that all those overtones, and the things you can't hear that compression removes ~ they still speak to and enrich the tones beneath and above them, those we can hear. In other cases what we can't hear we can feel. What happens when you cut those off, surgically remove them through the 'simplification' and 'reduction' of compression? Well, I can still hear a difference, for now anyway. I just hope we aren't all becoming MP3 players by association and from taking it all for granted, from apathy...
My answer ~ go out while those older musicians are still alive and take every opportunity to listen to them LiVe, and to learn from them...and give dance a try, without expectations or worry about your two left feet, if that's the worry, and don't bother about the occassional arsholes who seem to take pleasure in putting down, judging, or making others feel foolish, that's a sad pastime. If you really are that shy, at least take some time to watch dancers answering the music, and the music answering the dancers. I've lost count of the number of musicians who were uncomfortable playing without dancers present to help them drive the music along, to give it shtick... That 'shtick' is what compression dampens, by its very nature...
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Ok, to be serious. I agree with your advice Ceol, but not your critique. Not all of it anyway. The fact is that high quality digital recording captures a broader spectrum of sounds than other recording methods. True about the compression though.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I think the bigger problem is that for most people music is just another thing to be consumed. People don't make things anymore. They just consume them.
I care little about the difference between an MP3 and vinyl. I care a lot more about the difference between passively listening to music and actively making music.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
sbhikes, That's a depressing thought (your first one) and one which simply isn't true. The town I come from is full of youngsters making music of all sorts, whilst utilising the latest technology to the full. And don't knock the listeners, we cant play in a vacuum you know!
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I just hear so many people say "Wow, you play the flute, I could never do that." It's depressing. I'm not very good at it but I do it anyway. Making music is something every human being can do. The whole idea that we have to sound like professionals keeps so many people from enjoying doing it themselves. Keeps them from getting started, and makes them give up if they have started.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Brilliant,
I've just finished listening to Schubert's Quartets 13 and 14 as played by the Quartetto Italiano and was appreciating the lack of forced compression. The quiet bits are quiet which make the loud bits loud (for Schubert) even though the meter is barely hitting 0db. Beautifully recorded stuff. The CD is a better medium I think. Drive and lift is not about the LP vs CD rather the quality of the musician being recorded.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Granted, ceol, a lot of today's music on CDs is hyper-sanitized. However I'm glad the same technology makes it possible for us to enjoy the raw quality of John kimmel's music for instance (I know you like him), or Cooley's. Paddy in the Smoke is another example and there are countless others. So overall I'm thankful even though i hate that compression thing as much as you do.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Well, it's bubbling along, and has even resulted in at least one potty mention ~ farts... MP3 that will yuh...
So, a few points, Key's first ~
"The fact is that high quality digital recording captures a broader spectrum of sounds than other recording methods." ~ Key
Don't I know, but that isn't the standard of commercial CDs and MP3s... The realities and possibilities are amazing...
I like your thinking sbhikes ~
" ~ passively listening to music and actively making music. ~
Making music is something every human being can do. The whole idea that we have to sound like professionals keeps so many people from enjoying doing it themselves. Keeps them from getting started, and makes them give up if they have started." ~ sbhikes
Let's rephrase the first bit ~ actively acquiring musicianship, learning music, from live sources wherever and whenever possible ~ 'tradition' ~ sharing, absorbing and making it yourself. And those things that stand in the way of that, real or imagined, yes, sadly. I have also seen those drawn in, with passion, and then something put out the light... Fortunately most of us here seem to be actively carrying and maintaining that flame...
Last but not least ~ Patkiwi, just previous ~ hmmmm!!!
Yes, I enjoy my CDs too, and including Schubert, and I have some damned fine recordings, some of the best available ~ but they are still COMPRessed ~ amongst endless other possible ways of processing... While I can sit back and just enjoy, I also know the differences, which have never been confined to just volume, quiet and loud, any medium can pull that one off, real, manufactured or enhanced ~ as it is just a question of simple contrast...
There are other digital tricks at work, like the processes of 'equalization' and 'normalization'. Some of the results of such processing is to reduce the peaks and troughs, or increase them ~ the ups and downs of the music.
It is true that some folks have grown used to having it so 'processed', so 'perfected'... While I appreciate my CDs, and other recording mediums, I'll take live anyday. You might even choose to believe it is a figment of my imagination, but if you needed solid proof I could actually show you. I can convert it to visuals and there the differences are clear. I have the software and hardware to do so, and while I don't pretend to be a pro, I don't have a problem analyzing an audio signal, so I'm not just flying on fumes.
I have also done the dickin' around with audio and know from that, and the work of others, including the big recording studios, what can be done ~ just about anything. You can make the out of tune in tune, you can make the e string of a fiddle have the same attack as the G string, and that too with the harp. Consider all those variables, diameter and material wise. Hey, with this stuff I can make a whistle sound like a concertina and turn a singer into an accordion. It really is like having a magic wand.
My concern ~ well, I did give some options ~ but it is that people will start to emulate the sound of commercial recordings as they currently are and accept them as 'source', their proof of how things should be and sound. And here's a little laugh, actually in pain, I know some folks, not new, who cannot play anything like the way they exist on recordings. Hell, not just their technique and acceptable imperfections, their instrument can't sound like that on its own...
Yes, it is about 'drive and lift', but not as simple as between digital and analog (LP/vinyl/cassette) ~ a simple audio signal comparison between pre CD or MP3 processing, full spectrum, and the after effects will show you clearly what gets disposed of in that processing...and it isn't just a case of losing something that is graphic, it is a reduction in the signal, it is COMPRession... (+!)
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
pennhorse ~ yes, you're right, I do ~ Kimmel and Cooley and Paddy in the Smoke and... But part of that 'raw' is in part lost in that processing... But I'm still glad to have the music in hand, if avoiding the further compression of music via MP3ing it, an exception made for the small audio space language takes... or for phone rings...
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Ok,
It's clear that two different conversations are being conducted. Mine is CD vs vinyl and the comparitive use of compression. Ceolachan's is live vs recorded and the use of any compression full stop. Clearly live or actual music is the winner. All the points are toally valid
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I must compress myself. Sorry, but I am in a pensive mood. Aside from this being in my mind in general, playing with digital signals now and then, our car has acquired a swimming pool in the boot (trunk). So, there are other worries behind my present ranting. I've just been taking everything apart and trying to source that fault, so apologies if I come off too strongly today.
Patkiwi ~ a peace offering, by way of a suggested listen, something different ~
"Franz Schubert: Soirée"
Gidon Kremer & The Chamber Orchestra of Europe
Deutsche Gramaphone
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Patkiwi, it does also concern the differences between analog and digital, digital in the processed sense. Yes, I am happy that I don't have the pops and hum and all the other awful things that could come with vinyl and tape and their repeated use and inevitable deterioration. I admit, I have a love-hate relationship as regards digital. With the imprefections of those older mediums, they still had a larger audio image than CDs have. For a graphic example, since in part I was on about 'lift' and 'rhythm', when you change the direction of the bow there is a sudden spike in the waveform, really high, 'cut', and it does register, if not all of it is evidently audible. That harshness or 'cut' is eliminated in the processing to CD, or at least 'sweetened'. I know, I've done it myself, but I really do 'hate' it, and that's not a word I use lightly... those harsh bits, that 'cut', have as much to do with it being music as do the silences. They drive the music along, help to lift it and to define the dance in the music. There is also what Cape Breton musicians call 'dirt', which includes this, and is a term of endearment and appreciation, one I am in agreement with.
I will admit though, I also 'hate' reverb, which is liberally abused... Does everything have to sound like it's down a stairwell or in a ceramic tiled loo (toilet)?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I like the idea of pure unadultarated live music - freshly-delivered, without travelling too many "tune miles". However there are some really good recordings out there, often done by the likes of us, rather than by the big commercial studios. I think it's great that the technology finally makes music recording and sharing (not piracy, by the way!) so accessible to all.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
True but is that not an issue of philosophy rather than technology ? Mick Conneely's Selkie album is about as down and dirty as it gets, you can clearly hear every bow stroke even though it's quite compressed in the master and released on CD. Breda Kelville's release is another case in point. Both quite brilliant recordings in their own right.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Other dirty bits that come to mind are the buttons clicks on accordions, bellows creaks on pipes, finger strteaks on guitars, air leaks around the tin whistle and flutes. Any more ?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I’m with you in general, ‘c’, but you seem to be combining two different uses of the term “compression.” There’s dynamic compression, which has been happening for a long time - virtually all pop music has been seriously compressed for decades – and the data compression of MP3 and other file-shrinking technologies. Or did I misunderstand?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Should we blame MP3 and digital recording? I’m not aware of dynamic compression being a required part of MP3. When commercial tracks are transferred to MP3, they may very well be further compressed dynamically, but that’s a marketing decision independent of the MP3 technology. And digital recording can handle an even wider dynamic range than analog recording. So I think the digital methods are innocent tools in the hands of, well, whomever wants to use them for whatever purpose.
I’ve read that, above a certain level of resolution, practically nobody can tell the difference between an unprocessed recording and an MP3 version. I can believe that, but (here’s me going all empirical), I’d really like to see a proper scientific study.
Anyway, the meat of the matter is that too much recorded (and live) music is overprocessed and doesn’t represent what you’d hear sitting in the parlor with the musicians. And (I hadn’t thought of this before) I think the ceol dude is right that imitation of this artificial sound may very well be happening around us.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Both Bob, the dynamic compression is something that has grown across forms and into 'trad' inspired recordings along with the digitization, as all that twiddling has become more 'accessible' to the masses, including smaller recording companies and individuals.
Yes Patkiwi, some of the rough bits carry over, if a bit like the results of having tumbled river stones to make them that little bit smoother for handling and in this case listening. 'Dirt', but having been cleaned up a little for the masses. ~ to meet the expectations that are growing with the technology and what it can serve up...
MP3 is 'compression' before any additional twiddling is thrown in... Personally, the results, to my ears, suck. Yeah, they are passable, but my senses don't like the results...
Bob ~ " ~ digital recording can handle an even wider dynamic range than analog recording."
~ We've already been there, with Key's statement, yes, digital is amazing, but those capabilities aren't yet realized in commercial processing. CDs and MP3 do not give us those fuller possibilities, but are tailored and reduced, condensed, for the packaging ~ that 'red book' standard for CDs as an example...
Bob ~ "I’ve read that, above a certain level of resolution, practically nobody can tell the difference between an unprocessed recording and an MP3 version."
~ the graphics say otherwise, but so do my ears, as old and abused as they might be. Also, there is some belief, and I'm with that, which goes that those tones outside of our hearing, top and bottom, contribute to the richness of the tones that lie between them. If nothing else, those below can be felt...
Nice conclusion anyway ~
Bob has the last word? ~ probably not ~
"I think ~ that imitation of this artificial sound may very well be happening around us."
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Just a word in favour of technology (not that it's going anywhere, anyway.) Can't say I've been blinded by it - I've actually had my eyes opened by it and been exposed to a lot more than if I had restricted myself to a diet of live performers. The latter is preferable but far, far less available.
And if it took some compression along the way to deliver it, fair enough.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
The problems of data compression (mp3, et al) could be eventually eliminated by the ever advancing technology. When we reach the point where all the distribution media can efficiently handle a high resolution (like 96kHz/24bit), then the real benefits of digital recording and playback can be realized. Maybe by then the playback devices will even allow you to set the dynamic compression level anywhere from zero to FM-radio-pop. Am I dreaming? Woud the kids still squash it flat and crank it up loud?
Probably the biggest reason that dynamic compression is used is that the listening environment for the typical consumer is, more often than not, noisy. It can be hard to enjoy a recording that has any dynamic range when road noise or shopping mall noise obscures up the quieter parts, especially those horrible little earbuds. Cranking up the volume doesn’t work, because the loud parts get too loud.
I probably shouldn’t admit this, but in the car, I often choose to listen to the more compressed recordings just so I can hear them. Sometimes, though, I pop earplugs in my ears and crank up the volume. That shifts the balance of power so I can hear the more natural recordings a lot better. It’s not a great solution, but it sort of works.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
We're in agreement, I also live in hope, knowing what it can do and where it can go.
grego, I'm not a technophobe, far from it, right down to the cabling I use and the subtleties of microphones and their uses... As I've said previously, it is a love-hate relationship.
The depth of the question is to whether what our ears are being treated to repeatedly through these compressions and all around us results in something similar coming out the other end ~ in our own expressions, as an attempt to emulate those compressions in our music making, mistaking it for 'natural', even expecting it ~ and yes, coming out the other end as potentially shight, robbed of its nutrients in the processing...?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Many years ago, I was shopping for a small PA system for gigging with solo guitar. Theshop owner showed me the reverb/echo affect on one, which I said I wasn't interested in and he said something like, "Oh, you'll definitely want to use that. People are so used to hearing guitar with reverb that they mostly won't even like it anymore without."
Is that the kind of phenomenon you're talking about Ceolachan?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Oh, here’s an example of something very similar and even more horrible. I’ve run audio for lots of concerts, radio shows, etc. and I do my best to talk folks out of using pickups on their instruments. We have good mics available and I know how to use them, so I cringe when somebody wants to run a guitar through a pickup.
On one such occasion, I had a young assistant who was proud of his knowledge of the audio equipment (as if that equals good audio engineering) and kept pushing me to try the guitar pickup. I agreed to try it and, of course, it had the typical quacky plastic sound. I was about to say, “See how it sounds like a cheap imitation of a guitar?” when he piped up with “See? That’s a good acoustic guitar sound.”
He was so accustomed to overprocessed approximations of real instruments that he actually thought this was an improvement over the real thing (through a really nice microphone).
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I think this has a lot more to do with production techniques rather than the medium used.
There are differences between the way CDs and Vinyl sound, but I think the real change has been the gear in the studio rather than the medium used to distribute the goods.
Studios went digital in a hurry and that was the big change, I think. Working with digital music is so powerful that it encourages over-production. Working with computers rather than tape decks saves so much labor that it's easy to do to much.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
... there are some of us don't have the option of hearing any of the modern, let alone the old traditional players, live. The technology, warts and all, is the best they can ever hope for. Actually, its bluudy amazing.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Bob, we used to have similar problems, but also with folks demanding big phallic dynamic microphones over the better and more expensive ones we had available... Funny, that was when miking males. The females seemed more aware of quality in general... Could it be a gender thing?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Bob,
I'm with ya on micing guitars. Way better than any sbt-mic-blender.
Trade off is ya gotta "work" the mic.
As for digital technology- I walk out my front door with over 100 Irish fiddle tunes and songs on my mp3. It helps. I gotta add, that I never cared much about the quality, be it cassette or later on, mp3. I always wanted the information.
But I agree with the original premise of the thread. It could be a generational thing. Here in Boston there are a lot of top notch kids playing sessions (payed) with pickups. No dynamics, no slow tunes, very few jigs, and forget songs. Just ripping fast high speed reels with no dynamic. Singing a song is going by the wayside like it's not cool. That could be a whole other thread.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
That last U-Tube has some of the same ideas as your quote but presented graphically. Here's something similar from the article you provided the link to ~
Here's a quote regarding this kind of processing from Daniel Levitin, a professor of music and neuroscience at McGill University and author of "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession":
"~ it's like going to the Louvre and instead of the Mona Lisa there's a 10-megapixel image of it... I always want to listen to music the way the artists wanted me to hear it. I wouldn't look at a Kandinsky painting with sunglasses on."
If you don't think it is also happening to us and this music we listen to then you must not be listening too closely or carefully, or, at the least, your hearing is severly impaired or you just don't give a care...
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Listening to recordings on whatever media is a great adjunct to listening to IrTrad music played live. IMO, if you want "your fire lit," it's going to happen by hearing highly skilled musicians with years of experience playing --- playing the music live. There is *nothing* like being in a room with a superb musician who is playing the music -- to fire you up and make you think "playing that music would be something to die for."
IMO -- no one will EVER really *get it* if they only listen to recordings. And then again --- unless you try to play it and work at it -- you'll always be missing the whole other phenomenal element -- of eventually hearing yourself make a "tune" come out of an instrument -- and then working to make it come out better and better. Recordings can help you, and sometimes the clarity on a digital recording can be a certain kind of an aid. Again, I swear -- you just won't "get it" unless you sit down in a room with live musicians who have been playing for years, and are playing for the "joy of it."
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Everytime I read what you are not supposed to do I wonder who keeps coming up with these rules.
If you feel it play it!
I don't care if it is recorded or the sheet or the Abc or something you hear it your head.
Just play music & dance & enjoy.
I read the threads from last to 1st
& now I see it is ceolachan who is brilliant.
No reason to water down the discussion.
It's just something in my blood how to hear the music.
Ears are great but I feel something regardless of the source.
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Look Ceolachan, me nose is out of joint. I obviously don't get out there enough. Here are the facts: the closest anybody who's anyone in ITM comes is 1,500 kms away, and that's to Adelaide. Last year Kevin Burke, this year Martin Hayes and Denis Cahill in March. It makes it a bluudy expensive concert to fly down and back and its a 30 hour round trip by car. No Ryann Air, actually no cheap cheap flights from The Alice to anywhere at the moment. Only one direct flight each day. Cheapest return $444 on top of accommodation (?) and a ticket $90. Do you really HAVE to rub me nose in it?
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Hey, you're right Ceolachan. Some very fine Aussie Irish musos in hot spots around Australia to keep things alive and kicking. The tradition is in some very good hands I think. I'll stop complaining but keep reaching out there on the internet till someone live comes to within earshot. Then I'll be there like a shot to hear them. The Alice isn't a desert atoll in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, fair enough - I've even got electricity, a computer, broadband, Skype and a stereo with a couple of really lovely CD's ta listen to. I'll stop complaining now.
But back on the topic, and shoot me down in flames at will, as a struggling learner I think it is imperative to be able to hear, yourself, what you sound like to other people. If you haven't got good recording gear there is nothing to measure yourself against and the whole process becomes a frustration (I know, I've been there). Never mind "effects", a warts and all recording, uncompressed, can tell you heaps that you didn't know and also give you something to measure your progress by. Hey!
Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Everything seems to be going MP3 now, and personally, I don't like the compression, but I also don't like the compression on CDs. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the pluses too, the portability. But I don't like how it stomps on things, it takes the 'MuSiC' and compresses it to 'music', levels it out. This is what I choose to call, with some distaste, 'topping and tailing'. Yes, it's akin to what you do with currants, only in this instance you slice off the highs and the lows, the head and the feet. What remains is still recognizeable, but it is missing bits. There is that argument that what's missing can't be heard anyway, and more so I'm told the older we get. Well, I've old ears, but I can hear the difference, as between analog with all its problems, and digital CDs, which are often farted around with in unbelievable ways, like processed cheese and ready meals full of Es. I can tell the difference between old field recordings I have of certain musicians, and the field recordings of others after they've been squeezed digitally and burned on to CDs. I still prefer fresh fruit over tinned, or gelatine desserts with artificial colouring and flavouring and added vitamin C...
Here's the wonder of it all, the questions in this. I know that 'sessions', that newish tradition that rose out of the 30s and onward, has had its influence in leveling the music, ironing the dance out of it, even making the rhythm irregular, inconsistent and shaky ~ in some cases, amongst some musicians. I also know that 78s, LPs and cassettes had their influences too, some more than justified, including pushing the music in other directions, like up tempo and toward more bizarre associations and results, sometimes with good humour. Those endless varieties of results are known or guessed at, but what about COMPRESSION ~ compression??? Has or will this flatten things even more? Will it drive the music to more extremes of twee and cutesyness, to the saccharine (artificial sugar that is also a known carcinogen)? Will it result in the loss of lift, or the limitation of it, the dampening of the cut and thrust, the sparks that help the music move along, the dynamo of the dance in music, the dynamics, the rhythm???
The generation coming up is being fed on these compressed bits of musical data, what damage will result by taking this for granted and being bamboozled into accepting that compression can in any way represent the tradition, whatever that tradition is ~ Irish, jazz, classical? Are the effects already evident? Are musicians now emulating the compression they now listen to and take for granted ~ CDs, MP3s? Is there any hope? If you can, find an old LP or cassette from the past and compare that to the same MP3-ed. MP3 it yourself and then listen to the difference, if you can find a turntable or cassette player...ask your folks... It isn't the crackle pop or hum I want you to listen for, it is the rhythm, the lift, the swing, the dance in the music, the playing... Also, realize that all those overtones, and the things you can't hear that compression removes ~ they still speak to and enrich the tones beneath and above them, those we can hear. In other cases what we can't hear we can feel. What happens when you cut those off, surgically remove them through the 'simplification' and 'reduction' of compression? Well, I can still hear a difference, for now anyway. I just hope we aren't all becoming MP3 players by association and from taking it all for granted, from apathy...
My answer ~ go out while those older musicians are still alive and take every opportunity to listen to them LiVe, and to learn from them...and give dance a try, without expectations or worry about your two left feet, if that's the worry, and don't bother about the occassional arsholes who seem to take pleasure in putting down, judging, or making others feel foolish, that's a sad pastime. If you really are that shy, at least take some time to watch dancers answering the music, and the music answering the dancers. I've lost count of the number of musicians who were uncomfortable playing without dancers present to help them drive the music along, to give it shtick... That 'shtick' is what compression dampens, by its very nature...
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Yeah - it's like ice. I prefer the fresh stuff to the frozen muck you get nowadays.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Bravo. Well said and advice to be taken seriously.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by whistler gan ainm
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Ok, to be serious. I agree with your advice Ceol, but not your critique. Not all of it anyway. The fact is that high quality digital recording captures a broader spectrum of sounds than other recording methods. True about the compression though.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I can remember similar discourse way back when 1/4 inch (casset) tape was compared to 1/2 inch tape on the reel to reel
That was a bandwidth problem (the marketplace won)
Today in digital the problem lies in speed and processing power....in the lab is one thing..in the market place concessions abound.
I can't see your concerns being resoved any time soon.
Seammc
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by seammc
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I appreciate your concerns, Ceol, no doubt, and I'm happy to see your solution.
Turn off the thing and go get the 'fresh' stuff, as KML said.
That's what I tell people. "I make it fresh, daily! Stop on by anytime, I'll put a batch in the oven just for you."
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Yeah, as I say, I prefer fresh ice to frozen.............
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I hear ya, I hate freezerburnt ice.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I think the bigger problem is that for most people music is just another thing to be consumed. People don't make things anymore. They just consume them.
I care little about the difference between an MP3 and vinyl. I care a lot more about the difference between passively listening to music and actively making music.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
sbhikes, That's a depressing thought (your first one) and one which simply isn't true. The town I come from is full of youngsters making music of all sorts, whilst utilising the latest technology to the full. And don't knock the listeners, we cant play in a vacuum you know!
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Backer
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
You could if you went on a shuttle to space. And there's plenty of fresh ice up there to consume, because you sure as hell can't make ice in a vacuum.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I just hear so many people say "Wow, you play the flute, I could never do that." It's depressing. I'm not very good at it but I do it anyway. Making music is something every human being can do. The whole idea that we have to sound like professionals keeps so many people from enjoying doing it themselves. Keeps them from getting started, and makes them give up if they have started.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
.......'if you want the best jam you gotta make your own.......' [MS]
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by curtina
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
like farts innit
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Brilliant,
I've just finished listening to Schubert's Quartets 13 and 14 as played by the Quartetto Italiano and was appreciating the lack of forced compression. The quiet bits are quiet which make the loud bits loud (for Schubert) even though the meter is barely hitting 0db. Beautifully recorded stuff. The CD is a better medium I think. Drive and lift is not about the LP vs CD rather the quality of the musician being recorded.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Granted, ceol, a lot of today's music on CDs is hyper-sanitized. However I'm glad the same technology makes it possible for us to enjoy the raw quality of John kimmel's music for instance (I know you like him), or Cooley's. Paddy in the Smoke is another example and there are countless others. So overall I'm thankful even though i hate that compression thing as much as you do.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Well, it's bubbling along, and has even resulted in at least one potty mention ~ farts... MP3 that will yuh...
So, a few points, Key's first ~
"The fact is that high quality digital recording captures a broader spectrum of sounds than other recording methods." ~ Key
Don't I know, but that isn't the standard of commercial CDs and MP3s... The realities and possibilities are amazing...
I like your thinking sbhikes ~
" ~ passively listening to music and actively making music. ~
Making music is something every human being can do. The whole idea that we have to sound like professionals keeps so many people from enjoying doing it themselves. Keeps them from getting started, and makes them give up if they have started." ~ sbhikes
Let's rephrase the first bit ~ actively acquiring musicianship, learning music, from live sources wherever and whenever possible ~ 'tradition' ~ sharing, absorbing and making it yourself. And those things that stand in the way of that, real or imagined, yes, sadly. I have also seen those drawn in, with passion, and then something put out the light... Fortunately most of us here seem to be actively carrying and maintaining that flame...
Last but not least ~ Patkiwi, just previous ~ hmmmm!!!
Yes, I enjoy my CDs too, and including Schubert, and I have some damned fine recordings, some of the best available ~ but they are still COMPRessed ~ amongst endless other possible ways of processing... While I can sit back and just enjoy, I also know the differences, which have never been confined to just volume, quiet and loud, any medium can pull that one off, real, manufactured or enhanced ~ as it is just a question of simple contrast...
There are other digital tricks at work, like the processes of 'equalization' and 'normalization'. Some of the results of such processing is to reduce the peaks and troughs, or increase them ~ the ups and downs of the music.
It is true that some folks have grown used to having it so 'processed', so 'perfected'... While I appreciate my CDs, and other recording mediums, I'll take live anyday. You might even choose to believe it is a figment of my imagination, but if you needed solid proof I could actually show you. I can convert it to visuals and there the differences are clear. I have the software and hardware to do so, and while I don't pretend to be a pro, I don't have a problem analyzing an audio signal, so I'm not just flying on fumes.
I have also done the dickin' around with audio and know from that, and the work of others, including the big recording studios, what can be done ~ just about anything. You can make the out of tune in tune, you can make the e string of a fiddle have the same attack as the G string, and that too with the harp. Consider all those variables, diameter and material wise. Hey, with this stuff I can make a whistle sound like a concertina and turn a singer into an accordion. It really is like having a magic wand.
My concern ~ well, I did give some options ~ but it is that people will start to emulate the sound of commercial recordings as they currently are and accept them as 'source', their proof of how things should be and sound. And here's a little laugh, actually in pain, I know some folks, not new, who cannot play anything like the way they exist on recordings. Hell, not just their technique and acceptable imperfections, their instrument can't sound like that on its own...
Yes, it is about 'drive and lift', but not as simple as between digital and analog (LP/vinyl/cassette) ~ a simple audio signal comparison between pre CD or MP3 processing, full spectrum, and the after effects will show you clearly what gets disposed of in that processing...and it isn't just a case of losing something that is graphic, it is a reduction in the signal, it is COMPRession... (+!)
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
pennhorse ~ yes, you're right, I do ~ Kimmel and Cooley and Paddy in the Smoke and... But part of that 'raw' is in part lost in that processing... But I'm still glad to have the music in hand, if avoiding the further compression of music via MP3ing it, an exception made for the small audio space language takes... or for phone rings...
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Ok,
It's clear that two different conversations are being conducted. Mine is CD vs vinyl and the comparitive use of compression. Ceolachan's is live vs recorded and the use of any compression full stop. Clearly live or actual music is the winner. All the points are toally valid
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I must compress myself. Sorry, but I am in a pensive mood. Aside from this being in my mind in general, playing with digital signals now and then, our car has acquired a swimming pool in the boot (trunk). So, there are other worries behind my present ranting. I've just been taking everything apart and trying to source that fault, so apologies if I come off too strongly today.
Patkiwi ~ a peace offering, by way of a suggested listen, something different ~
"Franz Schubert: Soirée"
Gidon Kremer & The Chamber Orchestra of Europe
Deutsche Gramaphone
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Patkiwi, it does also concern the differences between analog and digital, digital in the processed sense. Yes, I am happy that I don't have the pops and hum and all the other awful things that could come with vinyl and tape and their repeated use and inevitable deterioration. I admit, I have a love-hate relationship as regards digital. With the imprefections of those older mediums, they still had a larger audio image than CDs have. For a graphic example, since in part I was on about 'lift' and 'rhythm', when you change the direction of the bow there is a sudden spike in the waveform, really high, 'cut', and it does register, if not all of it is evidently audible. That harshness or 'cut' is eliminated in the processing to CD, or at least 'sweetened'. I know, I've done it myself, but I really do 'hate' it, and that's not a word I use lightly... those harsh bits, that 'cut', have as much to do with it being music as do the silences. They drive the music along, help to lift it and to define the dance in the music. There is also what Cape Breton musicians call 'dirt', which includes this, and is a term of endearment and appreciation, one I am in agreement with.
I will admit though, I also 'hate' reverb, which is liberally abused... Does everything have to sound like it's down a stairwell or in a ceramic tiled loo (toilet)?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I like the idea of pure unadultarated live music - freshly-delivered, without travelling too many "tune miles". However there are some really good recordings out there, often done by the likes of us, rather than by the big commercial studios. I think it's great that the technology finally makes music recording and sharing (not piracy, by the way!) so accessible to all.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
True but is that not an issue of philosophy rather than technology ? Mick Conneely's Selkie album is about as down and dirty as it gets, you can clearly hear every bow stroke even though it's quite compressed in the master and released on CD. Breda Kelville's release is another case in point. Both quite brilliant recordings in their own right.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Other dirty bits that come to mind are the buttons clicks on accordions, bellows creaks on pipes, finger strteaks on guitars, air leaks around the tin whistle and flutes. Any more ?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I’m with you in general, ‘c’, but you seem to be combining two different uses of the term “compression.” There’s dynamic compression, which has been happening for a long time - virtually all pop music has been seriously compressed for decades – and the data compression of MP3 and other file-shrinking technologies. Or did I misunderstand?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Should we blame MP3 and digital recording? I’m not aware of dynamic compression being a required part of MP3. When commercial tracks are transferred to MP3, they may very well be further compressed dynamically, but that’s a marketing decision independent of the MP3 technology. And digital recording can handle an even wider dynamic range than analog recording. So I think the digital methods are innocent tools in the hands of, well, whomever wants to use them for whatever purpose.
I’ve read that, above a certain level of resolution, practically nobody can tell the difference between an unprocessed recording and an MP3 version. I can believe that, but (here’s me going all empirical), I’d really like to see a proper scientific study.
Anyway, the meat of the matter is that too much recorded (and live) music is overprocessed and doesn’t represent what you’d hear sitting in the parlor with the musicians. And (I hadn’t thought of this before) I think the ceol dude is right that imitation of this artificial sound may very well be happening around us.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Both Bob, the dynamic compression is something that has grown across forms and into 'trad' inspired recordings along with the digitization, as all that twiddling has become more 'accessible' to the masses, including smaller recording companies and individuals.
Yes Patkiwi, some of the rough bits carry over, if a bit like the results of having tumbled river stones to make them that little bit smoother for handling and in this case listening. 'Dirt', but having been cleaned up a little for the masses.
~ to meet the expectations that are growing with the technology and what it can serve up...
MP3 is 'compression' before any additional twiddling is thrown in... Personally, the results, to my ears, suck. Yeah, they are passable, but my senses don't like the results...
Bob ~ " ~ digital recording can handle an even wider dynamic range than analog recording."
~ We've already been there, with Key's statement, yes, digital is amazing, but those capabilities aren't yet realized in commercial processing. CDs and MP3 do not give us those fuller possibilities, but are tailored and reduced, condensed, for the packaging ~ that 'red book' standard for CDs as an example...
Bob ~ "I’ve read that, above a certain level of resolution, practically nobody can tell the difference between an unprocessed recording and an MP3 version."
~ the graphics say otherwise, but so do my ears, as old and abused as they might be. Also, there is some belief, and I'm with that, which goes that those tones outside of our hearing, top and bottom, contribute to the richness of the tones that lie between them. If nothing else, those below can be felt...
Nice conclusion anyway ~
Bob has the last word? ~ probably not ~
"I think ~ that imitation of this artificial sound may very well be happening around us."
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Just a word in favour of technology (not that it's going anywhere, anyway.) Can't say I've been blinded by it - I've actually had my eyes opened by it and been exposed to a lot more than if I had restricted myself to a diet of live performers. The latter is preferable but far, far less available.
And if it took some compression along the way to deliver it, fair enough.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by grego
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
The problems of data compression (mp3, et al) could be eventually eliminated by the ever advancing technology. When we reach the point where all the distribution media can efficiently handle a high resolution (like 96kHz/24bit), then the real benefits of digital recording and playback can be realized. Maybe by then the playback devices will even allow you to set the dynamic compression level anywhere from zero to FM-radio-pop. Am I dreaming? Woud the kids still squash it flat and crank it up loud?
Probably the biggest reason that dynamic compression is used is that the listening environment for the typical consumer is, more often than not, noisy. It can be hard to enjoy a recording that has any dynamic range when road noise or shopping mall noise obscures up the quieter parts, especially those horrible little earbuds. Cranking up the volume doesn’t work, because the loud parts get too loud.
I probably shouldn’t admit this, but in the car, I often choose to listen to the more compressed recordings just so I can hear them. Sometimes, though, I pop earplugs in my ears and crank up the volume. That shifts the balance of power so I can hear the more natural recordings a lot better. It’s not a great solution, but it sort of works.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
We're in agreement, I also live in hope, knowing what it can do and where it can go.
grego, I'm not a technophobe, far from it, right down to the cabling I use and the subtleties of microphones and their uses... As I've said previously, it is a love-hate relationship.
The depth of the question is to whether what our ears are being treated to repeatedly through these compressions and all around us results in something similar coming out the other end ~ in our own expressions, as an attempt to emulate those compressions in our music making, mistaking it for 'natural', even expecting it ~ and yes, coming out the other end as potentially shight, robbed of its nutrients in the processing...?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Many years ago, I was shopping for a small PA system for gigging with solo guitar. Theshop owner showed me the reverb/echo affect on one, which I said I wasn't interested in and he said something like, "Oh, you'll definitely want to use that. People are so used to hearing guitar with reverb that they mostly won't even like it anymore without."
Is that the kind of phenomenon you're talking about Ceolachan?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by cuchulain54
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Yeah, that's definitely one side of it, and I couldn't have illustrated that aspect better myself...
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Oh, here’s an example of something very similar and even more horrible. I’ve run audio for lots of concerts, radio shows, etc. and I do my best to talk folks out of using pickups on their instruments. We have good mics available and I know how to use them, so I cringe when somebody wants to run a guitar through a pickup.
On one such occasion, I had a young assistant who was proud of his knowledge of the audio equipment (as if that equals good audio engineering) and kept pushing me to try the guitar pickup. I agreed to try it and, of course, it had the typical quacky plastic sound. I was about to say, “See how it sounds like a cheap imitation of a guitar?” when he piped up with “See? That’s a good acoustic guitar sound.”
He was so accustomed to overprocessed approximations of real instruments that he actually thought this was an improvement over the real thing (through a really nice microphone).
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
I think this has a lot more to do with production techniques rather than the medium used.
There are differences between the way CDs and Vinyl sound, but I think the real change has been the gear in the studio rather than the medium used to distribute the goods.
Studios went digital in a hurry and that was the big change, I think. Working with digital music is so powerful that it encourages over-production. Working with computers rather than tape decks saves so much labor that it's easy to do to much.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
... there are some of us don't have the option of hearing any of the modern, let alone the old traditional players, live. The technology, warts and all, is the best they can ever hope for. Actually, its bluudy amazing.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
You need to get out more Clear Drops, they even tour and hold workshops down your way, though I gather the commute can be hell...
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Bob, we used to have similar problems, but also with folks demanding big phallic dynamic microphones over the better and more expensive ones we had available... Funny, that was when miking males. The females seemed more aware of quality in general... Could it be a gender thing?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Apparently you're not the only ones who feel that way:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity
And wasn't it Neil Young who said, "cd recordings are like looking at the Mona Lisa through a screen door"?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Gzeg
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Bob,
I'm with ya on micing guitars. Way better than any sbt-mic-blender.
Trade off is ya gotta "work" the mic.
As for digital technology- I walk out my front door with over 100 Irish fiddle tunes and songs on my mp3. It helps. I gotta add, that I never cared much about the quality, be it cassette or later on, mp3. I always wanted the information.
But I agree with the original premise of the thread. It could be a generational thing. Here in Boston there are a lot of top notch kids playing sessions (payed) with pickups. No dynamics, no slow tunes, very few jigs, and forget songs. Just ripping fast high speed reels with no dynamic. Singing a song is going by the wayside like it's not cool. That could be a whole other thread.
Salt
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by saltcast
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Oops that should read: "I walk out my front door with over **1000** Irish fiddle tunes and songs on my mp3.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by saltcast
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Gzeg ~ great link and quote, and it carried me to other links... Here are a few I picked up with moving illustrations ~
U-Tube: The Loudness War ~ basic, simple and short
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
U-Tube: The Loudness War - New Example! ~ of two halves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7t40xBpqfE
I Want to Break Free from Loudness War ~ this is fun, & repeats the first U-Tube at its end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkkqsN69Jac
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
That last U-Tube has some of the same ideas as your quote but presented graphically. Here's something similar from the article you provided the link to ~
Here's a quote regarding this kind of processing from Daniel Levitin, a professor of music and neuroscience at McGill University and author of "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession":
"~ it's like going to the Louvre and instead of the Mona Lisa there's a 10-megapixel image of it... I always want to listen to music the way the artists wanted me to hear it. I wouldn't look at a Kandinsky painting with sunglasses on."
If you don't think it is also happening to us and this music we listen to then you must not be listening too closely or carefully, or, at the least, your hearing is severly impaired or you just don't give a care...
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Listening to recordings on whatever media is a great adjunct to listening to IrTrad music played live. IMO, if you want "your fire lit," it's going to happen by hearing highly skilled musicians with years of experience playing --- playing the music live. There is *nothing* like being in a room with a superb musician who is playing the music -- to fire you up and make you think "playing that music would be something to die for."
IMO -- no one will EVER really *get it* if they only listen to recordings. And then again --- unless you try to play it and work at it -- you'll always be missing the whole other phenomenal element -- of eventually hearing yourself make a "tune" come out of an instrument -- and then working to make it come out better and better. Recordings can help you, and sometimes the clarity on a digital recording can be a certain kind of an aid. Again, I swear -- you just won't "get it" unless you sit down in a room with live musicians who have been playing for years, and are playing for the "joy of it."
# Posted on January 19th 2008 by Fid42
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Everytime I read what you are not supposed to do I wonder who keeps coming up with these rules.
If you feel it play it!
I don't care if it is recorded or the sheet or the Abc or something you hear it your head.
Just play music & dance & enjoy.
# Posted on January 19th 2008 by Random_notes
~~
The Zen of Trad ;)
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Random_notes
*
I read the threads from last to 1st
& now I see it is ceolachan who is brilliant.
No reason to water down the discussion.
It's just something in my blood how to hear the music.
Ears are great but I feel something regardless of the source.
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Play it from deep down inside, the soul, the heart, yes... Ohmmmm...
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by ceolachan
Discussion: The death of hi fidelity
# Posted on December 30th 2007 by dafydd
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16230
Making the connections ~
I'd missed this discussion as we were away, but the eventually linked to Rolling Stones article had an earlier airing by Dafydd and others...
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Look Ceolachan, me nose is out of joint. I obviously don't get out there enough.
Here are the facts: the closest anybody who's anyone in ITM comes is 1,500 kms away, and that's to Adelaide. Last year Kevin Burke, this year Martin Hayes and Denis Cahill in March. It makes it a bluudy expensive concert to fly down and back and its a 30 hour round trip by car. No Ryann Air, actually no cheap cheap flights from The Alice to anywhere at the moment. Only one direct flight each day. Cheapest return $444 on top of accommodation (?) and a ticket $90. Do you really HAVE to rub me nose in it? 
Some Aussie "Please explain" to ceolachan.
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Clear Drops
Only one direct flight each day to/from Adelaide. Sorry.
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Only one direct flight each day to/from Adelaide. Sorry.
Hell Clear Drops, we don't even have that... Blackpool Airport doesn't go your way any day...
But who said they had to be Irish. You've got some fine musicians scattered all over that lovely big lump of an island, for example these folks:
The Undertones
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2011
~ & those archives!!!
It isn't like you're on some desert Atoll out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean...
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Blinded by technology ~ influences beyond our control!?
Hey, you're right Ceolachan. Some very fine Aussie Irish musos in hot spots around Australia to keep things alive and kicking. The tradition is in some very good hands I think. I'll stop complaining but keep reaching out there on the internet till someone live comes to within earshot. Then I'll be there like a shot to hear them. The Alice isn't a desert atoll in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, fair enough - I've even got electricity, a computer, broadband, Skype and a stereo with a couple of really lovely CD's ta listen to. I'll stop complaining now.
But back on the topic, and shoot me down in flames at will, as a struggling learner I think it is imperative to be able to hear, yourself, what you sound like to other people. If you haven't got good recording gear there is nothing to measure yourself against and the whole process becomes a frustration (I know, I've been there). Never mind "effects", a warts and all recording, uncompressed, can tell you heaps that you didn't know and also give you something to measure your progress by. Hey!
# Posted on January 22nd 2008 by Clear Drops