I would like to find a book that will list a number of violin scales, and if lucky also arpeggios, but that will also have a disc with listening examples.
The other night I went to a local music store and the clerk told me she's never heard of such a thing. (ie. book with accompanying cd).
Does anyone know of, and can recommend a book of this type that they've used? I've been warned that there are 'good" books and "bad" books for this purpose, but I wouldn't know how to tell one from another.
Serious thought - I know we've been over this ground, but on a slightly different note ...
I'm puzzled as to why you want 'listening examples', Kylies. If you're intending to practice scales and arpeggios in the classical manner, you really *need* a teacher to help show you how to do it, and also to demonstrate in person how they should sound and how physically to ensure that you produce the sound. For instance, how to make a smooth transition between different positions.
Just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't have thought listening examples would help with this ...
Yes, I liked that second one too, Mr jig. And at least it was in tune. For all I know, that first guy was some famous teacher, but both the scale and the arpeggio were excrutiatingly out of tune, which I thought was a bit bad for someone setting out to do a demonstration as a teaching aid.
ha, you think thats bad, you should see the other stuff out there on you tube!
I picked the best of a bad bunch. like you say, he needs a teacher. He does'nt say what level he is already at as well.
well, expert village has some basic stuff as well, see violin and fiddle lessons.,
I have no idea about books or DVDs I am sorry to say so....
There 'is' other stuff , some lovely 4 octave stuff....
The Expert village Eb scale fella looks good enough , Its hard to really tell what kind of stuff Kylie wants... Just basics for trad? with or without vibrato?
Try all the teachers in your area Kylie, see what they are like as people, Dont just go with the first, ask about, try violin as well as fiddle.
of course violinmasterclass.com have plenty of stuff but how suitable it is .....
"Complete Scales and Arpeggios for Violin" by B.M. Carrodus William Elkin Music Services, Deacon House, Brundall, Norwich, England - No date - book only. Pencilled notes from 1980. I bought it for $1 in a garage sale. If you want it, I'll send it.
I thought it would be a good idea to learn the viola, and I was able to sit principal viola in the symphony my last semester. and that teacher didn't require me to memorize my recital.
Thanks for all the replies!
I should update my bio, I've now been playing 3.5 years or so. I have had a few different teachers, but all in group settings. I can not afford private lessons. Some of the group lessons I've been too have had a bit of therory, but not much. I think I have a decent book with basic scales around here, but it means nothing to me without hearing how it is suppose to sound. From sheet music, I can pick out which note, it is, though not when it comes to flats and sharps and things, and I also am horrible with timing from reading music. So sometimes I'll get the correct notes from the page, but pick up what it's suppose to sound like only from hearing someone else play it.
In all my learing, I konw I'm missing something, and I'm at a standstill. And I am thinking it the more intuitive knowledge of notes, and how they fit together musically, which I think is suppose to come from scales ect.
Hence the request.
Thank you for all the suggestions, I"ll certainly be checking out those web pages !
Instead of scales you need some ear training and sight singing practice. With the fiddle, if you can't sing it from the dots, then
you have no hope of playing it. You need to be able to pick out
intervals from the dots and sing them (eg, maj and min thirds, fourths, etc)
Seriously, for 'kylies', you have to know what note comes
next in your tune before you can dig it out of your fiddle.
When you're reading dots (or learning by ear) you have to be
able to sing, whistle, hum etc. the note that comes after the
one you just played before you can play the next one. That's
why you need to learn how to find the intervals in your dots.
Ah, ok. Its all about reading! Well, mhuppert covered most of the ground above. Sight singing lessons.
I learnt by ear for the first 15/20 yrs, so for learning to read What really helped me in understanding the rhythm and flexibility in interpretation was listening to some music and following the dots on the page. Now I was dealing with The sonatas and partitas for unaccompanied violin, with this I was able to see where the interpretation differed from the strict dots, How it was swung.
perhaps try something like this?;http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0786627891
With any luck you should be able to see clearly the differences between the black and white on the page , and the full colour performance.
Thats a very difficult question. I would, given a choice which thankfully I dont have to make, go for the younger.
There are so many incredible interpretations, I would'nt want to to rank them. However Heifetz's would be one of my favourite.
But hey, we might get into trouble discussing JS, here. Though of course a few ITM players have dabbled
Llig, could you offer positive suggestions to help, from your point of view? The questioner is looking for advice. As we get more information we get closer to the crux of the matter. We were all beginners once.
I understand the first one. If you can only hear how it's supposed to sound from someone else playing it, then how can the notes on the page be 'correct'?
OK, and the second: If you're hearing the tunes live, picking up what it's supposed to sound like that way and playing them, then you will understand how the notes fit together musically and gain intuitive knowledge that way.
The most you will ever get from the page is a rough idea of which order some of the notes go in. You havn't a cat in hells chance of picking up what it's supposed to sound like. This can only be gotten from hearing someone else play it.
Keep listening and you find you'll get a more intuitive knowledge of notes, and how they fit together musically
But of course!
Heifitz and JS seem mismatched.Hmm http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R_1hS5LeBm0
take1!
perhaps you were thinking of the younger Heifetz?
Isnt Youtube wonderfull
Enesco, Menuhin,Heifetz, Milstein, Perlman the list goes on........
just watched the Heifitz link...that really was amazing...he played with a lot of depth,interpretation and emotion..whoever said Heifitz was cold?
this is a good lesson, too, for folks who do not use a shoulder rest...notice how he is holding his violin...up on the shoulder and supported (deep) in the crook of his left hand
and also for those who think gut strings are slow to respond!
Sunnybear, many players today don't realise that up to the 1950/60s everyone used gut strings on the violin/fiddle, and the further back you go the more likely they'd be plain (uncovered) gut strings - except for the G. Today's players coming to gut from synthetics/steel strings will find they have to learn a different bowing technique, but when they have learnt it everything they've done on synthetics/steel can be done just as well, and more easily, on gut. The only thing with gut strings is that you've got to have well set-up pegs, because you can't tune gut other than from the pegs.
also, I think that the reason all these string manufacturers are marketing all these high tensioned super alloy strings is that they realize that players want a"shortcut" to better technique...these newer strings are quicker to respond, but to me also sound somewhat artificial compared to some of the older tech strings...
I absolutely love the "old school" sound that players like Milstein, Szeryng, and Oistrakh had...I love the playing too of newer players like Hahn and Vengerov too...good thing we don't have to make a choice!!
Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
I would like to find a book that will list a number of violin scales, and if lucky also arpeggios, but that will also have a disc with listening examples.
The other night I went to a local music store and the clerk told me she's never heard of such a thing. (ie. book with accompanying cd).
Does anyone know of, and can recommend a book of this type that they've used? I've been warned that there are 'good" books and "bad" books for this purpose, but I wouldn't know how to tell one from another.
Thanks.
# Posted on January 16th 2008 by Kylies
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
There has been a measured and thoughtful discussion on this subject very recently:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/16301
# Posted on January 16th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Not a book, but try here:
http://www.violinonline.com/scales.htm
# Posted on January 16th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Measured and thoughtful? ROFL
# Posted on January 16th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Measured, thoughtful and without a hint of animosity! [/sarcasm]
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Serious thought - I know we've been over this ground, but on a slightly different note ...
I'm puzzled as to why you want 'listening examples', Kylies. If you're intending to practice scales and arpeggios in the classical manner, you really *need* a teacher to help show you how to do it, and also to demonstrate in person how they should sound and how physically to ensure that you produce the sound. For instance, how to make a smooth transition between different positions.
Just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't have thought listening examples would help with this ...
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
btw it's so long ago, that I might have made this up, but was my scale book by Fleisch?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
I recomend you just listen and play along. Train your ear from the start.
Trying to use the dots at the same time makes it all trickier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMsBTqVTs68&feature=related
Its a start, its not perfect but what is? I think he does D and stuff too.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
I like this one, but its not quite what you mean is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGYL-aH6Azg&feature=related
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Ah! According to the interweb, it's Carl Flesch. Hmmm ... still one or two memory cells functioning then ... I'd be scary if I had 3 ...
wibble
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Yes, I liked that second one too, Mr jig. And at least it was in tune. For all I know, that first guy was some famous teacher, but both the scale and the arpeggio were excrutiatingly out of tune, which I thought was a bit bad for someone setting out to do a demonstration as a teaching aid.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
ha, you think thats bad, you should see the other stuff out there on you tube!
I picked the best of a bad bunch. like you say, he needs a teacher. He does'nt say what level he is already at as well.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
If that's the best ...
Kylies' bio says s/he's been learning fiddle for less than 2 years. I know that's no *guarantee* of level, but it's a indication, I guess.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
"an" indication
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
well, expert village has some basic stuff as well, see violin and fiddle lessons.,
I have no idea about books or DVDs I am sorry to say so....
There 'is' other stuff , some lovely 4 octave stuff....
The Expert village Eb scale fella looks good enough , Its hard to really tell what kind of stuff Kylie wants... Just basics for trad? with or without vibrato?
Try all the teachers in your area Kylie, see what they are like as people, Dont just go with the first, ask about, try violin as well as fiddle.
of course violinmasterclass.com have plenty of stuff but how suitable it is .....
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
"I like this one, but its not quite what you mean is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGYL-aH6Azg&feature=related";
Beautiful. I've always wanted to learn Indian classical violin...not many teachers around here, though.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
"Complete Scales and Arpeggios for Violin" by B.M. Carrodus William Elkin Music Services, Deacon House, Brundall, Norwich, England - No date - book only. Pencilled notes from 1980. I bought it for $1 in a garage sale. If you want it, I'll send it.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
http://www.swstrings.com/Store/Shopping.jsp?Category=Music&SubCategory=SheetMusic&Group=SH-B13870
this is a good start..
but remember that it is really not the book or method, but how you practice it..
take any scale or arpeggio or whatever and play with it...alter the rythyms and bowings, etc
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
ah yes, the Fleisch book.... I completely wore out the C maj page my jr. year of college. Swiched to viola my sr. year, didn't have to play scales.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Wyogal
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
there seem to be a few cheap possibilities for beginers on amazon, search violin, with cd... get a few.?
This perhaps?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1589512022
There are hundreds without the cd, but for playing trad you want to develop your ear, not reading, though it can help at some stage to learn to read.
concentrate on intonation, bowing, and listening. All these skills can be worked on with simple scales . by ear.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Wyogal, why did you switch?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
or
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0786676566/
cant tell whats in em, but worth a try...
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
I thought it would be a good idea to learn the viola, and I was able to sit principal viola in the symphony my last semester. and that teacher didn't require me to memorize my recital.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Wyogal
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Hrimaly scale studies, it's what I use in my teaching studio (classical students).
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Wyogal
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Thanks for all the replies!
I should update my bio, I've now been playing 3.5 years or so. I have had a few different teachers, but all in group settings. I can not afford private lessons. Some of the group lessons I've been too have had a bit of therory, but not much. I think I have a decent book with basic scales around here, but it means nothing to me without hearing how it is suppose to sound. From sheet music, I can pick out which note, it is, though not when it comes to flats and sharps and things, and I also am horrible with timing from reading music. So sometimes I'll get the correct notes from the page, but pick up what it's suppose to sound like only from hearing someone else play it.
In all my learing, I konw I'm missing something, and I'm at a standstill. And I am thinking it the more intuitive knowledge of notes, and how they fit together musically, which I think is suppose to come from scales ect.
Hence the request.
Thank you for all the suggestions, I"ll certainly be checking out those web pages !
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Kylies
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Instead of scales you need some ear training and sight singing practice. With the fiddle, if you can't sing it from the dots, then
you have no hope of playing it. You need to be able to pick out
intervals from the dots and sing them (eg, maj and min thirds, fourths, etc)
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Hup
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Ah ... so that's where I've been going wrong all these years ... I can't sing ...
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
...but I reckon you can swing...
Seriously, for 'kylies', you have to know what note comes
next in your tune before you can dig it out of your fiddle.
When you're reading dots (or learning by ear) you have to be
able to sing, whistle, hum etc. the note that comes after the
one you just played before you can play the next one. That's
why you need to learn how to find the intervals in your dots.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Hup
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Ah, ok. Its all about reading! Well, mhuppert covered most of the ground above. Sight singing lessons.
I learnt by ear for the first 15/20 yrs, so for learning to read What really helped me in understanding the rhythm and flexibility in interpretation was listening to some music and following the dots on the page. Now I was dealing with The sonatas and partitas for unaccompanied violin, with this I was able to see where the interpretation differed from the strict dots, How it was swung.
perhaps try something like this?;http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0786627891
With any luck you should be able to see clearly the differences between the black and white on the page , and the full colour performance.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
jig, do you prefer the younger Milstein or the later Milstein recordings of the S & P's?
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Thats a very difficult question. I would, given a choice which thankfully I dont have to make, go for the younger.
There are so many incredible interpretations, I would'nt want to to rank them. However Heifetz's would be one of my favourite.
But hey, we might get into trouble discussing JS, here. Though of course a few ITM players have dabbled
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Bloody hell:
"Sometimes I'll get the correct notes from the page, but pick up what it's suppose to sound like only from hearing someone else play it." Duh
"the more intuitive knowledge of notes, and how they fit together musically, which I think is suppose to come from scales ect." Bloody Hell
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ...
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Llig, could you offer positive suggestions to help, from your point of view? The questioner is looking for advice. As we get more information we get closer to the crux of the matter. We were all beginners once.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
I understand the first one. If you can only hear how it's supposed to sound from someone else playing it, then how can the notes on the page be 'correct'?
OK, and the second: If you're hearing the tunes live, picking up what it's supposed to sound like that way and playing them, then you will understand how the notes fit together musically and gain intuitive knowledge that way.
In my humble translation, of course.
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
ok, here's a possitive suggestion:
The most you will ever get from the page is a rough idea of which order some of the notes go in. You havn't a cat in hells chance of picking up what it's supposed to sound like. This can only be gotten from hearing someone else play it.
Keep listening and you find you'll get a more intuitive knowledge of notes, and how they fit together musically
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by ...
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
I prefer his latter
Heifitz and JS seem mismatched
I like Szeryng's too though
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
Well said Llig
Me too,
# Posted on January 17th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
i agree with Sunnybear but then it's all a matter of taste with JS.
i'm very fond of Josef Suk's set.
Perlman is worth a listen too.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
But of course!
Heifitz and JS seem mismatched.Hmm
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R_1hS5LeBm0
take1!
perhaps you were thinking of the younger Heifetz?
Isnt Youtube wonderfull
Enesco, Menuhin,Heifetz, Milstein, Perlman the list goes on........
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
well, I like Heifitz a lot...but not for Bach..
I don't care for the Perlman Bach either
haven't heard Menuhin (but his Elgar is the best!)
yes, Suk is very nice as is Grimeaux
I am anxiously awaiting Hilary Hahn to complete her cycle
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
just watched the Heifitz link...that really was amazing...he played with a lot of depth,interpretation and emotion..whoever said Heifitz was cold?
this is a good lesson, too, for folks who do not use a shoulder rest...notice how he is holding his violin...up on the shoulder and supported (deep) in the crook of his left hand
and also for those who think gut strings are slow to respond!
some fabulous fiddling there...
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arpeggios book + CD
Sunnybear, many players today don't realise that up to the 1950/60s everyone used gut strings on the violin/fiddle, and the further back you go the more likely they'd be plain (uncovered) gut strings - except for the G. Today's players coming to gut from synthetics/steel strings will find they have to learn a different bowing technique, but when they have learnt it everything they've done on synthetics/steel can be done just as well, and more easily, on gut. The only thing with gut strings is that you've got to have well set-up pegs, because you can't tune gut other than from the pegs.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
yes, Lazyhound, I agree..
also, I think that the reason all these string manufacturers are marketing all these high tensioned super alloy strings is that they realize that players want a"shortcut" to better technique...these newer strings are quicker to respond, but to me also sound somewhat artificial compared to some of the older tech strings...
I absolutely love the "old school" sound that players like Milstein, Szeryng, and Oistrakh had...I love the playing too of newer players like Hahn and Vengerov too...good thing we don't have to make a choice!!
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
do you know,i was listening to the chaconne played by Milstein when he was 82 on the radio last sunday.fantastic even at the end of his life.
yes,Oistrakh,Szeryng,Francescati and all that crowd-i love listening to them.
i know this has got precious little to do with sessions etc but ditto scales and arpeggios,lol.
i still think Heifitz was at his best in the romantic stuff,especially the Sibelius -but that's only my taste.
the fiddle really is a versatile instrument.
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by biggus dave
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
yes, biggus, but you can bet that they all practiced their scales and arpeggios...
I was just listening to the Oistrakh Thaik. and then the Sibelius...
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
"I am anxiously awaiting Hilary Hahn to complete her cycle"
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Sunnybear
Is she doing Bach?
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
this guy looks good, online lessons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZR_vx0Ghfc&feature=related
# Posted on January 18th 2008 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recommendations on scales/arppegios book + CD
get the Scale Master from www.virtvirt.com. This will allow you to choose the key, number of octaves, and tempo
# Posted on January 20th 2008 by Nfg