Can someone explain the predominance of the tunes in G?
Were they originally written in G (or even D) - and their relative minors - or did they tend to get changed because most people played them in G. (maybe because their instrument favored the key)
Or, maybe tastes have changed over the decades.
For example, The Ebb Tide is written in G, but I've also found it written in G minor (and called The Tide Came In, but that's another discussion!). I prefer it in the G minor; but it is much more difficult for my fingers to walk through those flats.
And, if someone does play in an unusual key, will it be a solo? ; )
Hehehehe...funny, Charlene. Actually, it depends on the unusual key -- if it takes it out of the reach of a fluter or whistle, it may very well be a solo! More likely, it'll be so awful when everyone tries to come in on a familiar tune in the wrong--oops, I mean, non-traditional--key that the whole thing will grind to a stop! heh.
Round here, it's D that's the big tune key, seems like. Then G.\
I think the predominance of certain keys has more to do with the 'traditional' instruments and their particular ranges than a fondness for certain keys.
Although (yes, I'm about to do it again, Will!) Barry Foy does mention (in The Field Guide to blah blah blah) that as recordings have become much more widespread and people record performance versions of tunes which change the key, there are tunes that musicians learn in a "new key" all unknowing. And -- voila. Another unusual key becomes a usual one -- and a solo!
There are two possible culprits here, the fiddle, or the guitar.
I am talking about session tunes. Some get transposed to G, (or related keys) for example Sleepy Maggie, and Miss MacLeods Reel.
Others which aren't in G, just don't get played much.
Part of the reason, I suspect, is that session fiddlers have learned to improvise/assimilate the tunes in G, relying on patterns or key phrases, making it easier to learn tunes in G, and hence ensuring that they get played again. Tunes in other keys require a bit more of a commitment to acquire, and still may not be accepted into a session.
The other part, is that guitars tend to be played in G. Check out Bluegrass music, and if you were to confiscate the capos,..... well, you would be an unpopular person. (Man, I must still be grumpy. This is an Irish list, isn't it. So, I can insult Bluegrassers, right...., just kidding, hold the flames!
So, it all comes down to the O' Darwinian Theory of Evolution, if it is in G, then most people will be able to play it and it survives the session. And if it is in E-sharp-minor-flat, I will play it so horribly out of tune on my fiddle that no one will ever want to hear the tune again.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Maybe I'm crazy or stupid, but doesn't it have something to do with the pipes? I wouldn't blame the fiddles and guitars, because it is, at least POSSIBLE to play in just about any key you could imagine. With a whistle though, if you want to play in a new key, you need a whole new whistle. Same with pipes and flutes and Celtic harps without sharping pegs. Perhaps they're all in the same key because the instruments they were conceived with only PLAYED in one key. This perhaps also explains the proliferation of modal keys in Irish music. You crave the variety, but the damn pipes only have 16 bloody notes! (I think, but I'm not a uillean piper. The shuttle pipes I have only have 9 bloody notes.)
Actually the Uilleann pipes are (almost) always in the key of D. There are some versions of the pipes in C# and C. Moreover, the Uilleann pipes are (almost) always designed to accept a system of keys to play accidentals and extend the range of the intrument. My guess is that the culprit is the Great Highland pipes, which ARE in the key of G and ARE the most common. But since much of the ornamentation in Irish music is based on the pipes, it would make sense that the key structure is as well. I think "fiddler on vermouth" has hit the preverbial nail on its head.
The flat pipes are the ones in the road which, unlike the dead rattlesnake, have no skid marks in front of them.
I don't know enough history to wade in definitively here, but the whole pipes thing sounds right to me. Fiddles and guitars can indeed be played in any key - although some are easier than others. As for capos - ptui! learn to barre properly, I say!
Jeff, ptooey to you too! I use a capo a lot. I like the sound of a full open chord progression with lots of drones, and I also like the dynamic possibilities and expressiveness of playing sweet little lullabyes capoed way up the neck to sound like - I don't know - mandolin or something. And NO, for your information, I DON'T know how to bar properly!
ptui? ptooey? spittoons? C'mon over to the whistle and flute players side of the hall and learn the true way of the spit. (one. tightly cover all finger holes. two. aim end of instrument at nearest fiddle player. three. blow hard.)
It works even better if you cram a wad of wet paper into the end of the whistle first.
As for capos - I must admit, Ricard Thompson makes creative use of them. I've seen him capo only the three treble strings on his guitar for some songs. But then, he IS freakin' Richard Thompson, after all! He's playing in my area in one week, and I have tickets - VERY excited!
Don't worry scotty... its just a defense mechanism. The fiddler I play with is about a foot taller than I, and he often endangers my ear with the end of his bow (most times during a really hot reel). I'll give him a quick shot to back him off to a safe distance. ;o)
They're not all in G, but....
They're not all in G, but....
Can someone explain the predominance of the tunes in G?
Were they originally written in G (or even D) - and their relative minors - or did they tend to get changed because most people played them in G. (maybe because their instrument favored the key)
Or, maybe tastes have changed over the decades.
For example, The Ebb Tide is written in G, but I've also found it written in G minor (and called The Tide Came In, but that's another discussion!). I prefer it in the G minor; but it is much more difficult for my fingers to walk through those flats.
And, if someone does play in an unusual key, will it be a solo? ; )
# Posted on October 27th 2001 by Charlene
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Hehehehe...funny, Charlene. Actually, it depends on the unusual key -- if it takes it out of the reach of a fluter or whistle, it may very well be a solo! More likely, it'll be so awful when everyone tries to come in on a familiar tune in the wrong--oops, I mean, non-traditional--key that the whole thing will grind to a stop! heh.
Round here, it's D that's the big tune key, seems like. Then G.\
I think the predominance of certain keys has more to do with the 'traditional' instruments and their particular ranges than a fondness for certain keys.
Although (yes, I'm about to do it again, Will!) Barry Foy does mention (in The Field Guide to blah blah blah) that as recordings have become much more widespread and people record performance versions of tunes which change the key, there are tunes that musicians learn in a "new key" all unknowing. And -- voila. Another unusual key becomes a usual one -- and a solo!
Zina
zls
# Posted on October 27th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Dare I step in on this....
There are two possible culprits here, the fiddle, or the guitar.
I am talking about session tunes. Some get transposed to G, (or related keys) for example Sleepy Maggie, and Miss MacLeods Reel.
Others which aren't in G, just don't get played much.
Part of the reason, I suspect, is that session fiddlers have learned to improvise/assimilate the tunes in G, relying on patterns or key phrases, making it easier to learn tunes in G, and hence ensuring that they get played again. Tunes in other keys require a bit more of a commitment to acquire, and still may not be accepted into a session.
The other part, is that guitars tend to be played in G. Check out Bluegrass music, and if you were to confiscate the capos,..... well, you would be an unpopular person. (Man, I must still be grumpy. This is an Irish list, isn't it. So, I can insult Bluegrassers, right...., just kidding, hold the flames!
So, it all comes down to the O' Darwinian Theory of Evolution, if it is in G, then most people will be able to play it and it survives the session. And if it is in E-sharp-minor-flat, I will play it so horribly out of tune on my fiddle that no one will ever want to hear the tune again.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
# Posted on October 27th 2001 by scottythefiddler
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Maybe I'm crazy or stupid, but doesn't it have something to do with the pipes? I wouldn't blame the fiddles and guitars, because it is, at least POSSIBLE to play in just about any key you could imagine. With a whistle though, if you want to play in a new key, you need a whole new whistle. Same with pipes and flutes and Celtic harps without sharping pegs. Perhaps they're all in the same key because the instruments they were conceived with only PLAYED in one key. This perhaps also explains the proliferation of modal keys in Irish music. You crave the variety, but the damn pipes only have 16 bloody notes! (I think, but I'm not a uillean piper. The shuttle pipes I have only have 9 bloody notes.)
# Posted on October 28th 2001 by Kerri Brown
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Actually the Uilleann pipes are (almost) always in the key of D. There are some versions of the pipes in C# and C. Moreover, the Uilleann pipes are (almost) always designed to accept a system of keys to play accidentals and extend the range of the intrument. My guess is that the culprit is the Great Highland pipes, which ARE in the key of G and ARE the most common. But since much of the ornamentation in Irish music is based on the pipes, it would make sense that the key structure is as well. I think "fiddler on vermouth" has hit the preverbial nail on its head.
# Posted on October 28th 2001 by whistlin_fool
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Has anyone seen the interview with the piper at the Scoiltrad site? Kevin and he refer to the "flat" pipes. What are they? I've never heard of them...
zls
# Posted on October 29th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: They're not all in G, but....
The flat pipes are the ones in the road which, unlike the dead rattlesnake, have no skid marks in front of them.
I don't know enough history to wade in definitively here, but the whole pipes thing sounds right to me. Fiddles and guitars can indeed be played in any key - although some are easier than others. As for capos - ptui! learn to barre properly, I say!
# Posted on October 29th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Hey, we just cleaned that floor! That's why God gave us spittoons. *giggle*
# Posted on October 29th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Jeff, ptooey to you too! I use a capo a lot. I like the sound of a full open chord progression with lots of drones, and I also like the dynamic possibilities and expressiveness of playing sweet little lullabyes capoed way up the neck to sound like - I don't know - mandolin or something. And NO, for your information, I DON'T know how to bar properly!
;-D
# Posted on October 29th 2001 by Kerri Brown
Re: They're not all in G, but....
ptui? ptooey? spittoons? C'mon over to the whistle and flute players side of the hall and learn the true way of the spit. (one. tightly cover all finger holes. two. aim end of instrument at nearest fiddle player. three. blow hard.)
# Posted on October 30th 2001 by whistlin_fool
Re: They're not all in G, but....
whistling fool, what sessions do you frequent. If I ever visit one, I must remember to wear my oilskins :O)
Scott 'grinning' Donaldson
# Posted on October 30th 2001 by scottythefiddler
Re: They're not all in G, but....
It works even better if you cram a wad of wet paper into the end of the whistle first.
As for capos - I must admit, Ricard Thompson makes creative use of them. I've seen him capo only the three treble strings on his guitar for some songs. But then, he IS freakin' Richard Thompson, after all! He's playing in my area in one week, and I have tickets - VERY excited!
Jeff
# Posted on October 30th 2001 by JeffK627
Re: They're not all in G, but....
Don't worry scotty... its just a defense mechanism. The fiddler I play with is about a foot taller than I, and he often endangers my ear with the end of his bow (most times during a really hot reel). I'll give him a quick shot to back him off to a safe distance. ;o)
# Posted on October 30th 2001 by whistlin_fool
Re: They're not all in G, but....
i like tunes in g
# Posted on November 2nd 2001 by gerry