I've noticed that when I play in public the tune goes to hell. I've also noticed that some folks seem to have much better luck at this than I do. They seem to have better concentration. Are there recommendation for mental tricks one can play on oneself to avoid forgetting everything one knows when playing in public?
I think it really IS a kind of zen thing. I found that it´s not concentration - `concentration´ usually tenses you up. a lot depends on the people you´re playing with - do you know them well, are they comparative strangers you meet for the first time in a session situation, does this introduce a competitive element,...that sort of thing. another factor is the audience - do they know you, are they basically interested in what you have to offer..or do they just want to lean back with an attitude of `Now entertain us!´ It helps, of course, if you can play your tunes fairly effortlessly. On the other hand, i remember when I was starting out playing in public - which is a long time ago - I sometimes found it helpful when the audience wasn´t listening too closely - when there were conversations going on, drinks being ordered, etc. I found this feeling of not being watched too closely took some of the pressure off me: I had the feeling of playing basically for myself and felt more free. After a while, being on stage and being closely listened to didn´t bother me anymore.
I found it was more a case of playing in public pointing out that I didn't know the tunes as well as I thought I did. I seemed to trip over at different points in the tune. It's a great way to identify deficiencies, of which I found I had a great number...
I'd second points made already.
wu wei - effortless action!
Concentration/Relaxation - to my mind the crucial aspect is "mileage in public," it just takes time.
The other thing is the need to play well within one's limits, because those limits will draw right in under pressure.
Who cares about audience? Play only for yourself...no matter people's reaction...don't think if their are enjoying your music...you should focus in enjoying yourself while you are playing, having the control on the tune and the instrument.
If you like what you are playing, people will like it aswell (ok, maybe not everybody...), if you are too worried about audience, as we say in spanish "Turn off the light and let's get out of here" (more or less...).
When on the spot, you need to be well within your comfort zone.
This is accomplished by firstly practiceing stuff at home above your comfort level, stuff that is difficult, that stretches you. So that when you play stuff you know and can do, you are comfortable doing so.
Secondly,experiance. ,you desensitise yourself through continued exposure to the thing you fear. Sorry thats not what you wanted to hear is it?!
You can pressure test your stuff by going for a run, getting the addrenalin going, then sit down to play......
Thirdly. Self control. You are in charge. only you can keep your mind from creating a negative spiral. Tell yourself you can do it,no problem. Keep saying it. its only a few tunes.
jig always strikes me as someone with a book token, but no idea how to use it, then got lost in Hodges Figgis, found himself in the self-help section and grabbed whatever he could find before scurrying to the cash-desk and making his exit.
wow, folks, where's the universal compassion, equanimity and non-attachment in the last 3 responses to jig's perfectly reasonable post?
I've noticed for sure that the new tunes are the ones that go readily to bits when played in public if I've not assimilated them well enough. Still, when the new tunes first go well in public then they really fly....something to do with my own enjoyment of making new stuff work.
Well, sorry to tease jig about his 'perfectly reasonable post', but how far am I supposed to run ? 100 metres ? half marathon ? :=)
If you find jig's advice helpful, good luck, go for it...
But I'd recommend the earlier 'wu wei' as a far superior approach, don't bother with self - control, forget about negative spirals, forget about self, get out of the way so that you and the instrument can do their thing, and exactly as VOKEPASA wrote, play for yourself. If you find the right place inside yourself and play from that place, it comes out in the music and the audience will catch it automatically, so forget 'em.
Part of the problem (at least for me) is playing with other musicians as opposed to playing solo. When I'm playing alone (at home-no "audience"), it's no big deal to get behind on the tempo slightly or whatever. But with others, if I get behind or start off a little wrong, it really falls apart (and its obvious). It's taking me awhile to play with a session group and not get too distracted by trying to listen too much to them and forgetting what I'm doing.
Not Zen, strictly speaking, but very close to it....
True story: One of my "fiddle teachers" is a stone-deaf, 90-year-old Japanese man who has never played an instrument, but has been a practicing black belt for over 70 years, and highly respected as a teacher. I didn't stick with kendo, but his general approach to life and learning impressed me so much that I looked him up after 30 years for a refresher course.
I can't boil it all down to one little posting, but here's some of it. He uses swordfighting as a metaphor.
You are your own worst enemy--your own doubts make your defeat more certain than your opponent ever could. So the best strategy is to defeat your own doubts first, by constant training ("Teach your body strategy"). When it's time to put the training to real use, think of nothing but the task to be accomplished--in fact, clear your mind completely, and let your body do what you have trained it to do. In my case, it's just between me and the fiddle, at that moment. The audience doesn't really matter, critics don't matter, it's just me and the fiddle that I play every day, doing what we always do.
If you develop the habit of approaching things in that spirit, you will find that all sorts of things become easier, because you are not wasting time and energy by dwelling on the negatives. (Yes, llig, I'm talking to you.)
There's much more in an old book titled "A Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi.
And please, no snide remarks about "If it's so great, then why did they lose The Big One?" WWII wasn't the first time that politicians and propagandists pushed a country into a stupid war. Sigh.
Funny, all i was doing was offering the advice of a man i highly respect, someone who has dealt with rather scarier things than being on stage.Personaly after 30 yrs of gigging, have not a worry going on stage. I am a proffessional. This discussion interested me because zen was mentioned. As a student and teacher of the martial arts any thing that relates to effective performance interests me. I am happy to learn from anyone who can demonstrate effective skills.
Mickray put similar advice but expressed better.
Yes wolfbird that is what i feel, as far as running, well far enough to elevate your heart cause you to sweat, get your cardio-vascular system working. That depends on the individual, dont give yourself a heart attack!
Thanks, mickray, lovely story. Musashi did a lovely little book, but he was really a butcher, skilled in the art of slaughter. I think that zen is a wonderful, noble, superb fount of wisdom that can be applied to anything, eating food, arranging flowers, playing music, killing people, anything and everything.
My favourite is " every note is a buddha ". That means, no barrier between the player and the played sound and the moment. You can make ugly buddhas or glorious buddhas, long buddhas, short buddhas, whatever, they're all buddhas...
Regarding 'wu wei', perhaps it's a bit unfair to recommend it to the poster, because if they understood, there'd not be asking the question. Probably, if I talked to myself, in a similar situation,
I'd be into 'every minute zen plus mushin plus every note a buddha'
Yes, mickray, I've had the book for many years and re-read it every now and then. I wasn't meaning to reduce him. Just that some people these days might find it hard to reconcile the skill of butchering people in battle with the skill of playing music well.
My view is that if you get a profound understanding of existence, for example understanding wu wei, (or it's equivalent in other traditions and languages) then the insight can be applied to anything, craft work, calligraphy, etc, etc.
Exactly, wolfbird, I concur. And developing that sort of general understanding is a lifetime process. Nobody has all the answers, and nobody ever will. But making progress in that direction definitely beats p*ssing and moaning about things.
I read something which I once thought was helpful:
The difference between an amateur and a professional: the amateur practises so they get it right, the professional practises so they don't get it wrong.
However, neat though that may be, I don't think that's particularly useful advice in terms of playing music that's partly improvised / created "in the moment" - for example, who's to say what's right or wrong?
So perhaps we can develop it further: the true musician strives to such a level of skill that they can get out of the way of themselves and allow people to hear the music.
Always eager to help, Patrick. Seriously, how often have you sat in an audience, at music or amateur dramatics, and thought "I could do that?". Now you can.
I agree with Jig. You can enjoy the music as much as you like with your friends and speculate about your own brilliance, but when you are "on the spot "its a completlely different world. Any little aerobic lift may help.
The shock of a diabolical foldback sound can sometimes crush you mid song or tune into a whimpering pile of unprocessed Aloe Vera juice.
Operating within your confines is good advise to me and lowering my own personal expectation of myself to a realistic level ( maybe to just below the level of my last noodling session on the couch at home) gives you somewhere to go, hopefully up, not down. Also I personally try to accept that there will be so called mistakes. I accept I am not a technically brilliant player and I will make mistakes. Sometimes I may even welcome them ie. "there's one cop that,
here's another one. Out of 12 musical semitones theres only one or 2 bad choices in any given key depending on how long you're going to stay on that note. There's room. I've always admired the old bluesmen on that angle.
The few times it has worked for me is when I've said to myself, " I'm incompetent, and I'm proud"
How do you all explain this then ? I play the whistle to a reasonable standard, practice every day, can sit in a beer garden with an audience and play tune after tune without a problem, play at sessions with musicians of all standards and hold my own, BUT put a microphone in front of me and I go to pieces completely and can`t remember a single note !
I break out in hot and cold sweats, start to shake, can`t think straight and make a complete fool of myself.
Take the mic away and I hit every note, no problem.
Loads of people like that Tony B. Some people love "performing" whether they are any good or not, many do not. I know hundreds of brilliant ITM players who would panic at the sight of a mic.
Yes Tony B. I know what you are talking about. Its like that old
song by the Smiths " the harsh truth of the cameras eye ", but in this case, "the harsh truth of the microphone". My slant on this is that the problem arises when I expect the sound through a system to be as good as the sound is for the instrument acoustically. For me this is a big mistake. Even the best microphone is an artificial device designed to process a sound wave. All I say is that if you have a realistic expectation of how bad it can sound through foldback sometimes at least
you can think " Oh well, I'll work with this anyway ( maybe from a slightly different angle or attitude). The other aspect is to bear in mind that the things that might appall you playing through a microphone may be totally unoticeable to an audience.
I even say to myself sometimes that I'm playing someone else's instrument .
I don't think personally that playing live to a crowd of punters is ever easy especially if theyr'e all sitting down gawking at you but it does get easier the more often you do it. And I think its great when you do get to present your version of the musical world and your history
to the audience and be yourself. As I read in an article once "the audience do want you to succeed'.
Interesting debate, as always with this subject there are two camp - those that have no problem in playing on stage and those that just go to pieces - whether they just forget the tune or just can't play due to shakes or nerves .
I have in the past sufered from being in the later camp. The worst situation I got myself into was on stage in front of 400 people just falling to pieces. I just could not play a note. I walked off at the end feeling mortified and left vowing not to play on stage again, it was truly a terrible feeling. The thing is that now I look back and almost laugh at the situation - I can see a large element of humour in it. But at the time it just was a vicious nightmare - I was so convinced I was going to be nervous and muck up that inevitably I did.
Now here has been loads of great advice posted but I will give a few things that have helped me - and this is the same for playing live / recording (red light syndrome) whatever.
Firstly adrenalin - when you walk on stage/ up to a microphone this kicks in. Some of us can handle a surge like this, others find it more difficult. Now your body does get used to this over time and as you play more live you do get more used to handling surges + you are more comfortable on stage so the adrenalin reduces. The problem is once you are awash with A you have to get it out of your system - the key is to stop yourself getting overloaded. So the first thing you need to do is breath. Alot of people forget about this - kind of strange as they have been doing it all their lives. As your breathing gets faster / shorter your body reacts with adrenalin and you go it the panic/flight mode - therefore 5 to 10 minutes before going on just concentrate on slow deep breaths from the diaphragm. This should be your focus. Once your on stage then don't stop the calm breathing - keep it going.
The other thing is the psychology of music. Sitting at home you can play the tune perfectly. You are in your comfort zone and it is not a problem. So why when you walk on stage does it all fall to bits. What is blocking the skills you have learnt and stopping you from playing effortlessly with your natural ability? There is an amazing book called the 'Inner Game of Music' by Barry Green (you can get it on amazon for £5) that was recomended to me a few years ago that I have found incredibly useful. Essentially the book deals with how manage the your inner self doubts when playing to allow your natural ability to come through.
The sad thing is how many musicians battle the problems discussed in this thread either with heavy drinking or beta blockers. If you need those to get on stage then is it really worth it?
Going on to a stage doesn't trouble me very much (I surprised myself when I started doing it, which was rather late in life in my case, thinking that I would be in a state of constant terror, but not so as it turned out). I think my mental state is "what the hell, you're here now, give it your best shot, what else can you do except run away, and I can't do that because the missus is down there watching!" As for the session situation, I find that what works best for me is to pick out a good player and imagine that just s/he and I are playing together. There's a bloke in our setup who plays the mandolin mostly and the guitar occasionally who has an unswerving sense of rhythm and tempo, and if I focus my ear on his playing and endeavour to play with him it helps me a lot., especially if it's noisy. It's important, as I've found to my cost, to avoid picking out anyone who's a bit dodgy about keeping tempo because one of you at least has to be in charge, as it were. Democracy in such matters don't work (as in all other matters!). As for recording myself, I'm convinced that there's something built into the circuitry of all recording devices that's specifically there to make me sound crap. The more times I try it the worse the "takes" become. Great advice about the breathing there from Toby and I think I'll buy that book next time I need fifteen quid's-worth from Amazon.
Also, I think that our perception of music is very much coloured by our exposure to "perfect" recordings on commercial CDs and the like. It's the same with constantly seeing all those gorgeous bodies on the covers of glossy mags. If you let it, it can have you thinking that you're horribly imperfect and the only answer is go around inside a big black bag all day so that you're never seen. A good corrective to this potentially-distorted view of oneself is to go down the market for ten minutes and consciously observe humanity in all its glorious shapes and sizes. Likewise, with music, just stick on Christy Moore Live at The Point, glory in all the little glitches if you really care and remember that the album was gleaned from many a concert, not just a single one. I'd ten times rather listen to that one that any one of a number of his perfect, yet perfectly anodyne, studio albums!
I meant to echo the excellent point made by cathrynb as well. You're the only one who is at all interested in your mistakes. The number of times in a session that the bloke next to me says to me at the end of a set "Sorry, mate, I really screwed that up for you!" and I reply, honestly, "I didn't hear you doing anything wrong!" And I do listen, before anyone jumps in!
thanks one and all for your sound advice, AND for making me realise that I`m not the only one that has suffered from "stage fright", I will get the book and the Christy cd.
I`m actually now looking forward to our next stint in front of the mic (in about a weeks time !)I
I wonder if Christy and co. ever had this problem ?
Zen and the art of playing in public
Zen and the art of playing in public
I've noticed that when I play in public the tune goes to hell. I've also noticed that some folks seem to have much better luck at this than I do. They seem to have better concentration. Are there recommendation for mental tricks one can play on oneself to avoid forgetting everything one knows when playing in public?
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by MarcoTam
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
I think it really IS a kind of zen thing. I found that it´s not concentration - `concentration´ usually tenses you up. a lot depends on the people you´re playing with - do you know them well, are they comparative strangers you meet for the first time in a session situation, does this introduce a competitive element,...that sort of thing. another factor is the audience - do they know you, are they basically interested in what you have to offer..or do they just want to lean back with an attitude of `Now entertain us!´ It helps, of course, if you can play your tunes fairly effortlessly. On the other hand, i remember when I was starting out playing in public - which is a long time ago - I sometimes found it helpful when the audience wasn´t listening too closely - when there were conversations going on, drinks being ordered, etc. I found this feeling of not being watched too closely took some of the pressure off me: I had the feeling of playing basically for myself and felt more free. After a while, being on stage and being closely listened to didn´t bother me anymore.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by alexweger
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
I found it was more a case of playing in public pointing out that I didn't know the tunes as well as I thought I did. I seemed to trip over at different points in the tune. It's a great way to identify deficiencies, of which I found I had a great number...
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by bc_box_player
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Isn't it more like Tai Chi? Just slow down and relax.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by slainte
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Tai chi and aikido are zazen in motion, no ?
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
I'd second points made already.
wu wei - effortless action!
Concentration/Relaxation - to my mind the crucial aspect is "mileage in public," it just takes time.
The other thing is the need to play well within one's limits, because those limits will draw right in under pressure.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Who cares about audience? Play only for yourself...no matter people's reaction...don't think if their are enjoying your music...you should focus in enjoying yourself while you are playing, having the control on the tune and the instrument.
If you like what you are playing, people will like it aswell (ok, maybe not everybody...), if you are too worried about audience, as we say in spanish "Turn off the light and let's get out of here" (more or less...).
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by VOKEPASA
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
When on the spot, you need to be well within your comfort zone.
This is accomplished by firstly practiceing stuff at home above your comfort level, stuff that is difficult, that stretches you. So that when you play stuff you know and can do, you are comfortable doing so.
Secondly,experiance. ,you desensitise yourself through continued exposure to the thing you fear. Sorry thats not what you wanted to hear is it?!
You can pressure test your stuff by going for a run, getting the addrenalin going, then sit down to play......
Thirdly. Self control. You are in charge. only you can keep your mind from creating a negative spiral. Tell yourself you can do it,no problem. Keep saying it. its only a few tunes.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by jig
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
That run is a notion I've never heard before!
Even just one attentive listener can help simulate a performance situation.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Go for a run before playing music in front of people ????
Sheesh, jig, you're way over the top today.
"Self control"? "Only you can" ? "Tell your self "?
Is that what you really think, jig ?
Says an awful lot about you and your insight.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Too true, wolfbird,
jig always strikes me as someone with a book token, but no idea how to use it, then got lost in Hodges Figgis, found himself in the self-help section and grabbed whatever he could find before scurrying to the cash-desk and making his exit.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Ha,ha
Guess the title,
" Zen and the art of ......"
Insert appropriate peculiar pursuit
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of getting personal
wow, folks, where's the universal compassion, equanimity and non-attachment in the last 3 responses to jig's perfectly reasonable post?
I've noticed for sure that the new tunes are the ones that go readily to bits when played in public if I've not assimilated them well enough. Still, when the new tunes first go well in public then they really fly....something to do with my own enjoyment of making new stuff work.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by bodatcha
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Well, sorry to tease jig about his 'perfectly reasonable post', but how far am I supposed to run ? 100 metres ? half marathon ? :=)
If you find jig's advice helpful, good luck, go for it...
But I'd recommend the earlier 'wu wei' as a far superior approach, don't bother with self - control, forget about negative spirals, forget about self, get out of the way so that you and the instrument can do their thing, and exactly as VOKEPASA wrote, play for yourself. If you find the right place inside yourself and play from that place, it comes out in the music and the audience will catch it automatically, so forget 'em.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Part of the problem (at least for me) is playing with other musicians as opposed to playing solo. When I'm playing alone (at home-no "audience"), it's no big deal to get behind on the tempo slightly or whatever. But with others, if I get behind or start off a little wrong, it really falls apart (and its obvious). It's taking me awhile to play with a session group and not get too distracted by trying to listen too much to them and forgetting what I'm doing.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Just realise that the listening audience are jealous of your talent, and PERFORM.
That's the whole secret, whether acting or playing on stage.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
And you don't really need to be very good, most of the audience wouldn't know.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
bodhran bliss: thanks for that last point- it really helps me out!
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Not Zen, strictly speaking, but very close to it....
True story: One of my "fiddle teachers" is a stone-deaf, 90-year-old Japanese man who has never played an instrument, but has been a practicing black belt for over 70 years, and highly respected as a teacher. I didn't stick with kendo, but his general approach to life and learning impressed me so much that I looked him up after 30 years for a refresher course.
I can't boil it all down to one little posting, but here's some of it. He uses swordfighting as a metaphor.
You are your own worst enemy--your own doubts make your defeat more certain than your opponent ever could. So the best strategy is to defeat your own doubts first, by constant training ("Teach your body strategy"). When it's time to put the training to real use, think of nothing but the task to be accomplished--in fact, clear your mind completely, and let your body do what you have trained it to do. In my case, it's just between me and the fiddle, at that moment. The audience doesn't really matter, critics don't matter, it's just me and the fiddle that I play every day, doing what we always do.
If you develop the habit of approaching things in that spirit, you will find that all sorts of things become easier, because you are not wasting time and energy by dwelling on the negatives. (Yes, llig, I'm talking to you.)
There's much more in an old book titled "A Book of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Musashi.
And please, no snide remarks about "If it's so great, then why did they lose The Big One?" WWII wasn't the first time that politicians and propagandists pushed a country into a stupid war. Sigh.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by mickray
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Funny, all i was doing was offering the advice of a man i highly respect, someone who has dealt with rather scarier things than being on stage.Personaly after 30 yrs of gigging, have not a worry going on stage. I am a proffessional. This discussion interested me because zen was mentioned. As a student and teacher of the martial arts any thing that relates to effective performance interests me. I am happy to learn from anyone who can demonstrate effective skills.
Mickray put similar advice but expressed better.
Yes wolfbird that is what i feel, as far as running, well far enough to elevate your heart cause you to sweat, get your cardio-vascular system working. That depends on the individual, dont give yourself a heart attack!
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by jig
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Thanks, mickray, lovely story. Musashi did a lovely little book, but he was really a butcher, skilled in the art of slaughter. I think that zen is a wonderful, noble, superb fount of wisdom that can be applied to anything, eating food, arranging flowers, playing music, killing people, anything and everything.
My favourite is " every note is a buddha ". That means, no barrier between the player and the played sound and the moment. You can make ugly buddhas or glorious buddhas, long buddhas, short buddhas, whatever, they're all buddhas...
Regarding 'wu wei', perhaps it's a bit unfair to recommend it to the poster, because if they understood, there'd not be asking the question. Probably, if I talked to myself, in a similar situation,
I'd be into 'every minute zen plus mushin plus every note a buddha'
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Musashi was a man of his times, and his culture. Ever seen his paintings, or wood carving?
People are complex--nobody is just a butcher, or whatever.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by mickray
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Yes, mickray, I've had the book for many years and re-read it every now and then. I wasn't meaning to reduce him. Just that some people these days might find it hard to reconcile the skill of butchering people in battle with the skill of playing music well.
My view is that if you get a profound understanding of existence, for example understanding wu wei, (or it's equivalent in other traditions and languages) then the insight can be applied to anything, craft work, calligraphy, etc, etc.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Exactly, wolfbird, I concur. And developing that sort of general understanding is a lifetime process. Nobody has all the answers, and nobody ever will. But making progress in that direction definitely beats p*ssing and moaning about things.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by mickray
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
"Nobody has all the answers, and nobody ever will."
Ha! I have! Try me! :;-> What's the question ???
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
I read something which I once thought was helpful:
The difference between an amateur and a professional: the amateur practises so they get it right, the professional practises so they don't get it wrong.
However, neat though that may be, I don't think that's particularly useful advice in terms of playing music that's partly improvised / created "in the moment" - for example, who's to say what's right or wrong?
So perhaps we can develop it further: the true musician strives to such a level of skill that they can get out of the way of themselves and allow people to hear the music.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
...although I may not have expressed that well. And easier said than done!!
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Always eager to help, Patrick. Seriously, how often have you sat in an audience, at music or amateur dramatics, and thought "I could do that?". Now you can.
# Posted on January 8th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
What helped me with this years ago was to understand that people were there to enjoy my playing, not to criticize it.
# Posted on January 8th 2008 by cathrynb
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
I agree with Jig. You can enjoy the music as much as you like with your friends and speculate about your own brilliance, but when you are "on the spot "its a completlely different world. Any little aerobic lift may help.
The shock of a diabolical foldback sound can sometimes crush you mid song or tune into a whimpering pile of unprocessed Aloe Vera juice.
Operating within your confines is good advise to me and lowering my own personal expectation of myself to a realistic level ( maybe to just below the level of my last noodling session on the couch at home) gives you somewhere to go, hopefully up, not down. Also I personally try to accept that there will be so called mistakes. I accept I am not a technically brilliant player and I will make mistakes. Sometimes I may even welcome them ie. "there's one cop that,
here's another one. Out of 12 musical semitones theres only one or 2 bad choices in any given key depending on how long you're going to stay on that note. There's room. I've always admired the old bluesmen on that angle.
The few times it has worked for me is when I've said to myself, " I'm incompetent, and I'm proud"
# Posted on January 8th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
How do you all explain this then ? I play the whistle to a reasonable standard, practice every day, can sit in a beer garden with an audience and play tune after tune without a problem, play at sessions with musicians of all standards and hold my own, BUT put a microphone in front of me and I go to pieces completely and can`t remember a single note !
I break out in hot and cold sweats, start to shake, can`t think straight and make a complete fool of myself.
Take the mic away and I hit every note, no problem.
# Posted on January 9th 2008 by tony b
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
tony b, maybe you should practice with a microphone--even a dummy one--to get used to seeing it there.
Or just play with your eyes closed. Works for me.
# Posted on January 9th 2008 by mickray
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Loads of people like that Tony B. Some people love "performing" whether they are any good or not, many do not. I know hundreds of brilliant ITM players who would panic at the sight of a mic.
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Yes Tony B. I know what you are talking about. Its like that old
song by the Smiths " the harsh truth of the cameras eye ", but in this case, "the harsh truth of the microphone". My slant on this is that the problem arises when I expect the sound through a system to be as good as the sound is for the instrument acoustically. For me this is a big mistake. Even the best microphone is an artificial device designed to process a sound wave. All I say is that if you have a realistic expectation of how bad it can sound through foldback sometimes at least
you can think " Oh well, I'll work with this anyway ( maybe from a slightly different angle or attitude). The other aspect is to bear in mind that the things that might appall you playing through a microphone may be totally unoticeable to an audience.
I even say to myself sometimes that I'm playing someone else's instrument .
I don't think personally that playing live to a crowd of punters is ever easy especially if theyr'e all sitting down gawking at you but it does get easier the more often you do it. And I think its great when you do get to present your version of the musical world and your history
to the audience and be yourself. As I read in an article once "the audience do want you to succeed'.
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Also a profound point from Cathryn B. How true!
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Interesting debate, as always with this subject there are two camp - those that have no problem in playing on stage and those that just go to pieces - whether they just forget the tune or just can't play due to shakes or nerves .
I have in the past sufered from being in the later camp. The worst situation I got myself into was on stage in front of 400 people just falling to pieces. I just could not play a note. I walked off at the end feeling mortified and left vowing not to play on stage again, it was truly a terrible feeling. The thing is that now I look back and almost laugh at the situation - I can see a large element of humour in it. But at the time it just was a vicious nightmare - I was so convinced I was going to be nervous and muck up that inevitably I did.
Now here has been loads of great advice posted but I will give a few things that have helped me - and this is the same for playing live / recording (red light syndrome) whatever.
Firstly adrenalin - when you walk on stage/ up to a microphone this kicks in. Some of us can handle a surge like this, others find it more difficult. Now your body does get used to this over time and as you play more live you do get more used to handling surges + you are more comfortable on stage so the adrenalin reduces. The problem is once you are awash with A you have to get it out of your system - the key is to stop yourself getting overloaded. So the first thing you need to do is breath. Alot of people forget about this - kind of strange as they have been doing it all their lives. As your breathing gets faster / shorter your body reacts with adrenalin and you go it the panic/flight mode - therefore 5 to 10 minutes before going on just concentrate on slow deep breaths from the diaphragm. This should be your focus. Once your on stage then don't stop the calm breathing - keep it going.
The other thing is the psychology of music. Sitting at home you can play the tune perfectly. You are in your comfort zone and it is not a problem. So why when you walk on stage does it all fall to bits. What is blocking the skills you have learnt and stopping you from playing effortlessly with your natural ability? There is an amazing book called the 'Inner Game of Music' by Barry Green (you can get it on amazon for £5) that was recomended to me a few years ago that I have found incredibly useful. Essentially the book deals with how manage the your inner self doubts when playing to allow your natural ability to come through.
The sad thing is how many musicians battle the problems discussed in this thread either with heavy drinking or beta blockers. If you need those to get on stage then is it really worth it?
Toby
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by tobes
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Going on to a stage doesn't trouble me very much (I surprised myself when I started doing it, which was rather late in life in my case, thinking that I would be in a state of constant terror, but not so as it turned out). I think my mental state is "what the hell, you're here now, give it your best shot, what else can you do except run away, and I can't do that because the missus is down there watching!" As for the session situation, I find that what works best for me is to pick out a good player and imagine that just s/he and I are playing together. There's a bloke in our setup who plays the mandolin mostly and the guitar occasionally who has an unswerving sense of rhythm and tempo, and if I focus my ear on his playing and endeavour to play with him it helps me a lot., especially if it's noisy. It's important, as I've found to my cost, to avoid picking out anyone who's a bit dodgy about keeping tempo because one of you at least has to be in charge, as it were. Democracy in such matters don't work (as in all other matters!). As for recording myself, I'm convinced that there's something built into the circuitry of all recording devices that's specifically there to make me sound crap. The more times I try it the worse the "takes" become. Great advice about the breathing there from Toby and I think I'll buy that book next time I need fifteen quid's-worth from Amazon.
Also, I think that our perception of music is very much coloured by our exposure to "perfect" recordings on commercial CDs and the like. It's the same with constantly seeing all those gorgeous bodies on the covers of glossy mags. If you let it, it can have you thinking that you're horribly imperfect and the only answer is go around inside a big black bag all day so that you're never seen. A good corrective to this potentially-distorted view of oneself is to go down the market for ten minutes and consciously observe humanity in all its glorious shapes and sizes. Likewise, with music, just stick on Christy Moore Live at The Point, glory in all the little glitches if you really care and remember that the album was gleaned from many a concert, not just a single one. I'd ten times rather listen to that one that any one of a number of his perfect, yet perfectly anodyne, studio albums!
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
Right, "that one than." I have this urge to write complicated sentences.
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
I meant to echo the excellent point made by cathrynb as well. You're the only one who is at all interested in your mistakes. The number of times in a session that the bloke next to me says to me at the end of a set "Sorry, mate, I really screwed that up for you!" and I reply, honestly, "I didn't hear you doing anything wrong!" And I do listen, before anyone jumps in!
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Zen and the art of playing in public
thanks one and all for your sound advice, AND for making me realise that I`m not the only one that has suffered from "stage fright", I will get the book and the Christy cd.
I`m actually now looking forward to our next stint in front of the mic (in about a weeks time !)I
I wonder if Christy and co. ever had this problem ?
# Posted on January 10th 2008 by tony b