A lot of discussions on box playing have references to "I switched from B/C to CsharpD" or "CsharpD is gaining in popularity" or again "CsharpD is better for the pulse of the music". My own experience is that I learned to play a hohner C melodeon as a child. I didn't play for many years and last year got a B/C box. I have been learning tunes from cds and Barfly/Henrik Norbeck on the B/C box, but I am inclined to think that CshD is easier in fingering. My reasons for this are mainly the simplicity of DEF or FED on the CshD. So many tunes are in D, which covers a smaller number of keys in the CshD than in the B/C. For example, to play St. Anne's reel (key D), the fingering is so much easier in CshD (imho). I am going to buy a new better box this year and my choice is going to be based on the comments on this discussion!
Well, then again, great B/C box tunes like Paddy Kelly's 4-Part and all those really nice D minor and G minor tunes, would be so much more difficult on a C#/D. At the end of the day, any tune can be played on both systems and if you dedicate enough time to becoming a good player of either system, any tune should be playable at least. If you prefer that 'punchy' sound, and coming from a melodeon background you probably will, of the C#/D that's the one to go for but if you like the big, fat box sound of Joe Burke or John Regan with a lot of ornamentation etc BC is the way to go.
Macbox, I haven't been playing very long, so maybe my comments are a little ill-informed, but I changed from the B/C to the C#/D as I was finding the flows you described a bit of a burden and a really great C#/D instrument became available. I havent been having so much problem with 3(BCd triplets(?) as I had with fast DF#A or EF#G. Maybe its partly because when I switched it was to a very high quality box and the action helped me.
I love the C#/D box - so many reels are 'just under the fingers'... however I have noticed that at this stage I'm tending to favour reels I can play just on the D row a bit. The others will come, including the Dmin ones (I practice playing tunes in Bb... so yes it is possible to do it).
I do like the smooth sound of the well played BC. I decided that for me after some playing, I really do prefer the other way. Everyone is different.
I'm playing a Castagnari and I love the tone so much. I get home from a holiday when i haven't been able to take the box with me and I play and I think "far out this box sounds so rich!".
I hope you find a beautiful instrument... and hopefully a really nice one like a Casti, a Cairdin, an older Salterelle, Mengascini, or in that league. I do think it makes a real difference.
Years ago I met an extraordinary man, a friend of people I knew, who was a sort of clairvoyant, He could tell with unerring accuracy many things about people's pasts, without even meeting them, and their future.
As his friends got to know about his gifts they began to ask him for advice on what they should do about various problems in their lives, serious and trivial. After a while, he told me, he got fed up with being consulted in this way and developed a standard response, which was "Make up your own effing mind!"
Now I'm no clairvoyant but I think you have everything you need to make the decision already, i.e,, a halfstep box. Learn it as a B/C, then pretend it's a C#/D, don't be in a hurry, give it a few weeks or months or however long it takes, work on a variety of pieces in both fingerings, and then - MUYOFM!
Maybe it's just me, but I found B/C easier to learn than C#/D. I finally switched after a few years on the B/C. (I actually play D/C#). Probably because I was trying (and still am) trying to have the best of both worlds. The punchy and the fluid.
Playing the tunes with smooth transitions is when the C#/D is more of a challenge. It forces you to work those bellows and buttons in a way that the B/C doesn't. I played both for a while until I found out I was picking up my B/C less and less and I finally let it go.
Depends what you want. They are both great systems. As far as difficult keys on the C#/D, they are great for etudes and bellows work. A standard like Julia Delaney is a breeze on B/C (D dorian), but it will teach you a thing or two on C#/D. Or try Tommy's Tarbukas, the tune I use for limbering up.
B/C has my vote. But check the other threads. Both have proponents who are adamant about their chosen system and all the arguing in posts won't change their minds.
Right, and after a few years you'll be just as adamant. After all, who's gonna say: O my gawd ! I've been playing the wrong system all along ! Happy squeezing.
Quite. When you reach a certain level of virtuosity the differences tend to get blurred. Jackie Daly and Sharon Shannon come to mind (they play both).These puny discussions are for us common mortals who have nothing better to do with teir time.
If joe Burke decided to embrace the C#/D system, I'm sure he'd be just as impressive.
B/C or CsharpD?
B/C or CsharpD?
A lot of discussions on box playing have references to "I switched from B/C to CsharpD" or "CsharpD is gaining in popularity" or again "CsharpD is better for the pulse of the music". My own experience is that I learned to play a hohner C melodeon as a child. I didn't play for many years and last year got a B/C box. I have been learning tunes from cds and Barfly/Henrik Norbeck on the B/C box, but I am inclined to think that CshD is easier in fingering. My reasons for this are mainly the simplicity of DEF or FED on the CshD. So many tunes are in D, which covers a smaller number of keys in the CshD than in the B/C. For example, to play St. Anne's reel (key D), the fingering is so much easier in CshD (imho). I am going to buy a new better box this year and my choice is going to be based on the comments on this discussion!
# Posted on January 6th 2008 by macbox
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Well, then again, great B/C box tunes like Paddy Kelly's 4-Part and all those really nice D minor and G minor tunes, would be so much more difficult on a C#/D. At the end of the day, any tune can be played on both systems and if you dedicate enough time to becoming a good player of either system, any tune should be playable at least. If you prefer that 'punchy' sound, and coming from a melodeon background you probably will, of the C#/D that's the one to go for but if you like the big, fat box sound of Joe Burke or John Regan with a lot of ornamentation etc BC is the way to go.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by PaddyCmusic
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Macbox, I haven't been playing very long, so maybe my comments are a little ill-informed, but I changed from the B/C to the C#/D as I was finding the flows you described a bit of a burden and a really great C#/D instrument became available. I havent been having so much problem with 3(BCd triplets(?) as I had with fast DF#A or EF#G. Maybe its partly because when I switched it was to a very high quality box and the action helped me.
I love the C#/D box - so many reels are 'just under the fingers'... however I have noticed that at this stage I'm tending to favour reels I can play just on the D row a bit. The others will come, including the Dmin ones (I practice playing tunes in Bb... so yes it is possible to do it).
I do like the smooth sound of the well played BC. I decided that for me after some playing, I really do prefer the other way. Everyone is different.
I'm playing a Castagnari and I love the tone so much. I get home from a holiday when i haven't been able to take the box with me and I play and I think "far out this box sounds so rich!".
I hope you find a beautiful instrument... and hopefully a really nice one like a Casti, a Cairdin, an older Salterelle, Mengascini, or in that league. I do think it makes a real difference.
nathan
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by Brown Creeper
MUYOFM
Years ago I met an extraordinary man, a friend of people I knew, who was a sort of clairvoyant, He could tell with unerring accuracy many things about people's pasts, without even meeting them, and their future.
As his friends got to know about his gifts they began to ask him for advice on what they should do about various problems in their lives, serious and trivial. After a while, he told me, he got fed up with being consulted in this way and developed a standard response, which was "Make up your own effing mind!"
Now I'm no clairvoyant but I think you have everything you need to make the decision already, i.e,, a halfstep box. Learn it as a B/C, then pretend it's a C#/D, don't be in a hurry, give it a few weeks or months or however long it takes, work on a variety of pieces in both fingerings, and then - MUYOFM!
Cheers
Steve
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Maybe it's just me, but I found B/C easier to learn than C#/D. I finally switched after a few years on the B/C. (I actually play D/C#). Probably because I was trying (and still am) trying to have the best of both worlds. The punchy and the fluid.
Playing the tunes with smooth transitions is when the C#/D is more of a challenge. It forces you to work those bellows and buttons in a way that the B/C doesn't. I played both for a while until I found out I was picking up my B/C less and less and I finally let it go.
Depends what you want. They are both great systems. As far as difficult keys on the C#/D, they are great for etudes and bellows work. A standard like Julia Delaney is a breeze on B/C (D dorian), but it will teach you a thing or two on C#/D. Or try Tommy's Tarbukas, the tune I use for limbering up.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
B/C has my vote. But check the other threads. Both have proponents who are adamant about their chosen system and all the arguing in posts won't change their minds.
Pick one, Learn it, and start playing!!!
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by zippydw
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Right, and after a few years you'll be just as adamant. After all, who's gonna say: O my gawd ! I've been playing the wrong system all along ! Happy squeezing.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Does the difference tend to get over emphasised? After all G on a B/C is the same fingering as A on a C#/D
Quite a few of the pros seem to say they play both. Presumably they're not just talking about using them for transposing?
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Quite. When you reach a certain level of virtuosity the differences tend to get blurred. Jackie Daly and Sharon Shannon come to mind (they play both).These puny discussions are for us common mortals who have nothing better to do with teir time.
If joe Burke decided to embrace the C#/D system, I'm sure he'd be just as impressive.
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
Daly and Shannon could play freezer container lids and make them sound wonderful!
Needless to say, I don't think anyone would notice what key they are playing in.
No one mentioned Finbar Dwyer. He plays D/D# I believe... And he is unbelievable
# Posted on January 7th 2008 by zippydw
Re: B/C or CsharpD?
I thought Finbarr played C/C# . Whatever about that, he is indeed unbelievable!
You could go down the three row road. Finbarr used to play 3 row which I believe was B/C/C#
# Posted on January 8th 2008 by PaddyCmusic