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what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Hi sessioneers...
Just curious what you think about this....
When the a new pub opened a little over a year ago, we were very happy to finally have a place to play regularly and were hoping to get a drink on the house. To our surprise, not only did the management offer a tab, but also a cash payment.
I set up a calendar so two capable players would "host" weekly, and divide the payment. We asked all the musicians to chip in a bit for the waiter/waitress, since we use two tables for 3-4 hours. Pub patrons also drop money in the tip jar.
The management recently decided there wasn't enough business to justify continuing to pay money to the session ( but still provide the tab). I think it is going to be more difficult to get people to commit to being a "host" without the money, so I'm scaling back and asking one person to commit to lead the session each week, and for a shorter time.
The question- the musicians put in a token ($2-3) for th waiter/waitress, but many patrons put money in the tip jar thinking it is going to the musicians.
Does it seem reasonable to split the money in the tip jar, with half to the waiter/waitress and half to the week's session leader? It would be $20 -$25 most weeks....
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
as I read the title of this thread, I'm thinking, "hmmm, like listen to each other, try ornamenting like this, how about linking these tunes, don't overplay..."
oh, you mean $$.
At our session, I go, buy one $5 coffee, and then hang out and play music for 2 hours. There are no waitresses/waiters here, one orders at the counter and sometimes it is brought to us after it is made. If the session leaders are being paid, that's their business, don't know about it. None of the drinks are on the house.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Strewth - I can paid AND have fun? Can I come and play at your house?
Seriously, I know that there are sessions where some of the musicians are paid but I prefer to leave those alone. For me the fire in a session comes from the fact we are all at the same level ie amateurs.
I don't want the stress of being a professional and nor do I want the hassle of being led by a semi-pro. If you have any money in the pot my suggestion would be either put it toward a round of drinks. Alternatively and personally I would advocate this one - make a regular donation to your local cancer research charity. They need the money a hell of a sight more than us!
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Feh. I've had it with publicans lately and their expectation that a traditional session is supposed to be a "draw". Yeah I know they're in business to turn a profit, it's their right to pay or not pay session leaders, yadda yadda yadda yadda. A shower of bastards the lot of them.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Reminds me of how people in Arizona are pretty tight with their tipping percentages (no offense, azfiddle, and please don’t take it personally, but I used to be a waitress and bartender out West and I knew I never wanted to wait tables in Arizona because of that). I also remember that in a lot of the West/South, service workers earn a "tip wage" that is usually about half the minimum wage, on the theory that they make lots of money in tips.
So you can see where I'm going with this. I think it would be good for everyone in the long run and the session in general if you just give all the money to the server/bartender. Maybe take enough out to cover the drinks for the hosts. The idea is that if you take care of the servers and they like you, they will be in your corner when it comes to decision-making about the longevity of the session. Keep the servers happy and they will take better care of you and be more cheerful around the customers---it just generates a nicer environment for everyone.
This is actually a fairly complicated issue because it also touches on two other subjects---the first issue is how you keep the commitment of session hosts without paying them. I think your idea of taking it down to just one paid host is a good one, but if you’re going to take that money out of the tips for the server, you could hurt your relationship with the server, and potentially build resentment for the session. How about a separate (private) collection for the session itself? Or maybe explain to the bar that you will have one session a month to collect cash for the host for the rest of the month? (on these nights I would still make sure to take care of the server) That way they’ll still see you as generous and willing to compromise.
The other issue is playing in a session for tips. I’m curious---what happens now with the tips you get from the customers? Do you split it out among the session players or give it all to the hosts?
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I like the "tab is on the house" sessions. I have a closed session that is that way, and it includes food as well as drink. Their food is great, and can get rather pricey, but we try to keep it mellow. We get them to give us the bill at the end of the night (even though it is complimentary), because that gives us an idea of how much to tip.
Our bill is usually between $100-$150, and we often tip upwards of 50%, for a number of reasons. The main one being that we love playing there, and dinner and drinks for about $10 a person is a great deal! And we know that it keeps the staff and management happy, and that makes them happy to host us. And we always get great service!
But also keep in mind that things work differently in Europe. It seems like gratuity is becoming a bit more common over there, but it's very different than in the U.S., where the wait staff makes basically ALL of their money off of gratuity.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Do they pay waiters/waitresses in the good old US of A? If they are paid really poor rates, as I suspect, rather than relying on the "charity" of patrons I suggest they form a trade union, strike for a week, and then return on higher wages. (unless employed by Coca-Cola who have a nasty habit of assassinating trade unionists).
Getting paid as I do canj be hard work, and does alter the focus, as the session also needs to be something of a performance.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
And just to clarify-- No one never asked to be paid nor did we expect it - just having a place for the session was great. The mone actually complicated my life, because someone (me) had to decide how to disperse the money and who would get it etc.
The most equitable solution I had was to sign up 2 people "host" each week and keep things going. Most of the leaders signed up for two sessions a month but came more often than that. I must admit that I found plenty of uses for my share...
The tab is $100.... so that's basically one drink per person and enough for a table full of "appetizers"... The tip money has been upwards of $50 sometimes, depending on the number of musicians and how much they've contributed and the number of generous listeners.
But if playing music is enough of a draw to keep the good players coming (and I certainly hope it is), then it sounds like the general consensus is to just keep leaving the tip money for the wait staff.....
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I wouldn't count on strong musicians showing up at a session without a monetary incentive. Why go out to a pub session that is sure to be full of beginners with big egos, thrashing guitars, goatwhackers go leoir, would-be Tommy Makems with none of his talent, grace, or gravitas, ignorant punters who want you to play The Unicorn Song or some other POS...for FREE...when you could have a few nice tunes with people of similar mindset and ability in the comfort of your own home?
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I was going to say to Hanley "Then why don't you just play at home?", but you have said so yourself.
Rev otoh said:
"But also keep in mind that things work differently in Europe. It seems like gratuity is becoming a bit more common over there, but it's very different than in the U.S., where the wait staff makes basically ALL of their money off of gratuity."
That depends where you are in Europe. In the UK, tipping staff is relatively rare, except in restaurants. On the mainland, it's much more common, but varies from one country to another. In Germany, for instance, *not* tipping would in effect be a comment to the effect that "your service was utterly lousy, don't expect me to come here again".
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Sharon,
One word of warning about paying the session 'hosts'. It's not uncommon for that to happen around here, but often people have kept it quiet to avoid the problem of distribution of funds. I suspect they also realised that some of the regulars are far better musicians than the 'hosts', and might get a bit shirty if they realised one person was getting paid and it wasn't them.
What I have seen several times is that people are regulars for an extended period of time - turning up every week for a year or so - and then realise that there is payment involved but they've never been told about it. It immediately causes bad blood, and in several cases has caused these people to immediately drop out and never return.
I personally prefer to distribute the income by buying a round of drinks, or as cash if there's only the three of us there, but then I guess I'm a bit of a Commie at heart.
Payment is always tricky, especially if some of the players need the money more than others. I'm fortunate enough for it not to matter (although it's always nice to recieve, as a token of recognition for your efforts), but some of my friends live closer to the bread line. I have absolutely no issues with them taking the money as I've been there and know how much difference thirty bucks can make when you don't have any. But I still like to know what's going on. It's only common courtesy.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Nicely put, Box Player. There was a time when all my income came from sessions and gigs, so I appreciate what you are saying.
Obviously the majority of the visitors and regulars were better musicians than me (no, not on the drum) but that never seemed to matter. But everyone is aware that some are paid, and some are not.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Our session just restructured in this format and seems to be working out okay. What to do with the money has always been a sticky issue, and I've found that the following two principles keeps any snarkiness to a minimum:
1. Make sure everybody knows what's going on (and that they can speak up if they don't like it)
2. Distribute as fairly and evenly as possible
We rotate two hosts each week. They get paid a percentage of the till but have certain responsibilities- they are on the hook to be there during certain hours, make sure the tunes get started by a certain time, greet session participants, make sure everyone gets asked to contribute a set, get some songs in there, and start up sets during the lulls. They don't get paid much, but it's enough maybe for gas and sometimes that's enough to encourage somebody to come who lives more than 30 minutes away.
The tip money gets split evenly between all session participants and the bar tender. Most people have to drive at least 20 minutes or more to get there, so a few bucks is kinda nice.
If it's a real big take (holidays usually) we have in the past donated the funds to the local Comhaltas branch to put toward sending young musicians to the Irish Arts Week. We've also talked about saving it up and having a guest professional come in to host the session and conduct workshops.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
We give it all to the server, and we also each chip in towards the server's tip if it's not up around $50 or more. The punters don't have to know where the tip ends up.
Like Reverend says, it keeps the staff and management happy, and we do get very good service. They look forward to seeing us each week, even if they're not all that interested in the music. And it avoids the issue of any jealousies about how the money is handled.
Even at sessions where the take is distributed to the players at the end of the evening, I give my share to the bartender.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
azfiddle writes: “The management recently decided there wasn't enough business to justify continuing to pay money to the session”
This is the death knell of many sessions. You should almost be upfront with the management about the fact that sessions aren’t guaranteed to “justify” any expense when first arranging the session. But a publican who understands this and loves Irish music is few and far between. There’s no solution really; once this happens it’s probably time to move on.
~~~
Welshman writes: “For me the fire in a session comes from the fact we are all at the same level ie amateurs.”
Yes… for you. But sessions are different for everyone. The session you prefer is ‘volunteer’ or usually beginner to intermediate session and the player’s enthusiasm will be what sustains it… for a while anyway. Usually volunteer sessions fizzle out after a while unless you have a couple of good compulsive/obsessed players to hold it together.
~~~
bc_box_player writes: “One word of warning about paying the session 'hosts'. It's not uncommon for that to happen around here, but often people have kept it quiet to avoid the problem of distribution of funds.”
I don’t like being secretive because it might make people even more uncomfortable when they eventually find out. You might even find resentment from some people. You don’t necessarily have to divulge details, but most people will be happy to know that having paid hosts means that if they bother to get to the session the payment guarantees good players will be there to play with.
We have rotating hosts at our session and this eases the feeling that coming to the session is supporting another musician’s income. As one of the rotating hosts I still go to most of the sessions regardless of whether I’m being paid. Other hosts do the same if they don’t live too far away.
~~~
Jumper writes: “Like Reverend says, it keeps the staff and management happy, and we do get very good service. They look forward to seeing us each week, even if they're not all that interested in the music. And it avoids the issue of any jealousies about how the money is handled. Even at sessions where the take is distributed to the players at the end of the evening, I give my share to the bartender.”
Wow, this is a completely different kind of paid session where the musicians pay in order to buy off staff and management to ensure the session continues. I understand how in some places it’s either do this or play at home, but it still strikes me as a backwards approach.
At our session the rotating hosts are paid modestly, but it’s enough to get them to show up as scheduled. Session participants know these hosts will be there to keep the ball rolling and ensure they won’t find that no one else is there when they show up, or that they won’t end up playing with a group of novice players. (No offense to novice players, but unless there are other strong players there as well it can be hard work to lift the session, and sometimes seem impossible. A good session needs a quorum of strong players.)
As far as drinks go, the bartender gives a dollar off to musicians for each drink and we tip the bartenders accordingly as we get them to keep the bartenders smiling. We don’t have a waitress, so I have no idea how to deal with that. Perhaps just tipping them for each drink as well will add up without any huddle at the end of the night being necessary.
If tips show up on the table we usually hand it out to people who had to cross a toll bridge or drive a long distance. If everyone’s local we’ll give it to the bartender. But we don’t get tips on the table very often.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I have played in sessions in my town since 1983, in 3 different pubs, and we are having free drinks - beer, soda pops, coffe. At the Pub we're playing now, we are getting a glass with an amount off money, and we can buy drinks for a reduced price (half-price), and I think that's a good thing, but we have never been offered money, and I certainly not would like it. If You are paid, You have to be there at every session.
A session is for me, not a 'gig', but a place where I can meet my friends for a couple of hours playing some good music, chatting and having fun, and I'll be there because I like to play music, and I would play, even if I should pay my own drinks.
And there are no tips involved.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Imagine having to worry about what to do with the money you are given for a session....... We turn up in a pub, the landlord and other customers tolerate 'that lot up the other end'. they even disconnect the speaker from the stereo for our benefit. There may be people who turn up to listen bt we meet to see friends, catch up on news, play tunes. Here sessions tend to be early in the week, when otherwise the pub would be pretty empty and we pay for our own beer. But then we can talk all night and play no tunes at all if that's how we fell. Don't know if that's typical in the UK but it's what we do here.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I enjoy my sessions more now that there is no money involved, just free drinks. And we get a wider variety of players down as there is no quibbling about a few quid, no-one is worried about it. The sums of money you are talking about are paltry anyway, so giving it to charity seems the best idea. But what charity? What about the NSC? http://www.nicaraguasc.org.uk/
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Arra quit being such a tight arse.
You are taking up two tables and so the waitress will inevitably be loosing out on earnings.
Just have a proper session, expect nothing except respect and give the waitress her money.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
When I saw the heading I thought this thread would be about tips on playing and was intrigued.
It never occurred to me that it would be about money because they just don't tip in local pubs, that I've heard of.
So thankfully, what to do with all the money is a stress factor I don't have to deal with.
Phantom Button's story about the barman selling drink for a dollar less, then pocketing the dollar as a tip, wouldn't be called "tipping" here - it would be called "embezzling" or "skimming"
Different culture I guess.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Phantom didn't say the bartender pockets the difference. He just said they tip him accordingly. Whatever that means, probably for the full price, I would guess.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
As someone who gigs (other styles), my husband and I enjoy going to a public place to play music with folks where there is no money involved. We feel like we have the freedom to be amatures, people that just enjoy learning and playing the music.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Folks,
I'm sure you have misunderstood PB's remarks about the bartender; we get a consistent welcome at that venue (even the slow session, which has a host who is likely unpaid, and surely only occasionally delights the punters with the quality of our playing), and the bartender is a fine singer too. All of the bartenders here are an integral part of this scene, even those who don't sing or play, and I wouldn't dream of not tipping them very generously every chance I get.
I think it unlikely that the regular sessions at this pub, despite their brilliance, bring in extra income for the publican - the players overall drink far less than punters.
So getting back to the original post, I do think it's a very decent gesture to compensate the wait staff for their lost tips to the degree you can, while also maintaining enough of a fee to guarantee competent hosts for the sessions. As for players who are not hosts, I don't see why they should need any compensation, as they have the benefit of a guaranteed session schedule and a welcoming pub to play it in.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I would find it sensible for all the aforementioned resaons to use tips to pay the waitstaff.
We don't have wait staff. I'll throw a tip in the jar for the crew behind the counter that makes the drinks when I buy my coffee. I hardly ever see them come out from behind the counter.
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I knew what you meant Phantom - the bit where you pay less for the drink and then give the difference to him/her before he/she pockets it, is called "money laundering"
Just indulging in a wind-up, of course I tip when in the US.
Since the barman , or I suppose you could call him a "waitstaff", at the pub where we go for a tune also owns the pub and doesn't give discounts to musicians (about 90% of his clientele), he will be waitstaffing a long time between tips I'm afraid
what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Hi sessioneers...
Just curious what you think about this....
When the a new pub opened a little over a year ago, we were very happy to finally have a place to play regularly and were hoping to get a drink on the house. To our surprise, not only did the management offer a tab, but also a cash payment.
I set up a calendar so two capable players would "host" weekly, and divide the payment. We asked all the musicians to chip in a bit for the waiter/waitress, since we use two tables for 3-4 hours. Pub patrons also drop money in the tip jar.
The management recently decided there wasn't enough business to justify continuing to pay money to the session ( but still provide the tab). I think it is going to be more difficult to get people to commit to being a "host" without the money, so I'm scaling back and asking one person to commit to lead the session each week, and for a shorter time.
The question- the musicians put in a token ($2-3) for th waiter/waitress, but many patrons put money in the tip jar thinking it is going to the musicians.
Does it seem reasonable to split the money in the tip jar, with half to the waiter/waitress and half to the week's session leader? It would be $20 -$25 most weeks....
Other thoughts?
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by azfiddle
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
as I read the title of this thread, I'm thinking, "hmmm, like listen to each other, try ornamenting like this, how about linking these tunes, don't overplay..."
oh, you mean $$.
At our session, I go, buy one $5 coffee, and then hang out and play music for 2 hours. There are no waitresses/waiters here, one orders at the counter and sometimes it is brought to us after it is made. If the session leaders are being paid, that's their business, don't know about it. None of the drinks are on the house.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by wyogal
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Azfiddle, you get PAID?? Where is this place!!
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Strewth - I can paid AND have fun? Can I come and play at your house?
Seriously, I know that there are sessions where some of the musicians are paid but I prefer to leave those alone. For me the fire in a session comes from the fact we are all at the same level ie amateurs.
I don't want the stress of being a professional and nor do I want the hassle of being led by a semi-pro. If you have any money in the pot my suggestion would be either put it toward a round of drinks. Alternatively and personally I would advocate this one - make a regular donation to your local cancer research charity. They need the money a hell of a sight more than us!
D
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Welshman
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Feh. I've had it with publicans lately and their expectation that a traditional session is supposed to be a "draw". Yeah I know they're in business to turn a profit, it's their right to pay or not pay session leaders, yadda yadda yadda yadda. A shower of bastards the lot of them.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Hanley
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
And that goes double for their beerswilling sports obsessed patrons!!!!!
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Hanley
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Reminds me of how people in Arizona are pretty tight with their tipping percentages (no offense, azfiddle, and please don’t take it personally, but I used to be a waitress and bartender out West and I knew I never wanted to wait tables in Arizona because of that). I also remember that in a lot of the West/South, service workers earn a "tip wage" that is usually about half the minimum wage, on the theory that they make lots of money in tips.
So you can see where I'm going with this. I think it would be good for everyone in the long run and the session in general if you just give all the money to the server/bartender. Maybe take enough out to cover the drinks for the hosts. The idea is that if you take care of the servers and they like you, they will be in your corner when it comes to decision-making about the longevity of the session. Keep the servers happy and they will take better care of you and be more cheerful around the customers---it just generates a nicer environment for everyone.
This is actually a fairly complicated issue because it also touches on two other subjects---the first issue is how you keep the commitment of session hosts without paying them. I think your idea of taking it down to just one paid host is a good one, but if you’re going to take that money out of the tips for the server, you could hurt your relationship with the server, and potentially build resentment for the session. How about a separate (private) collection for the session itself? Or maybe explain to the bar that you will have one session a month to collect cash for the host for the rest of the month? (on these nights I would still make sure to take care of the server) That way they’ll still see you as generous and willing to compromise.
The other issue is playing in a session for tips. I’m curious---what happens now with the tips you get from the customers? Do you split it out among the session players or give it all to the hosts?
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by kennedy
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I like the "tab is on the house" sessions. I have a closed session that is that way, and it includes food as well as drink. Their food is great, and can get rather pricey, but we try to keep it mellow. We get them to give us the bill at the end of the night (even though it is complimentary), because that gives us an idea of how much to tip.
Our bill is usually between $100-$150, and we often tip upwards of 50%, for a number of reasons. The main one being that we love playing there, and dinner and drinks for about $10 a person is a great deal! And we know that it keeps the staff and management happy, and that makes them happy to host us. And we always get great service!
But also keep in mind that things work differently in Europe. It seems like gratuity is becoming a bit more common over there, but it's very different than in the U.S., where the wait staff makes basically ALL of their money off of gratuity.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Reverend
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Do they pay waiters/waitresses in the good old US of A? If they are paid really poor rates, as I suspect, rather than relying on the "charity" of patrons I suggest they form a trade union, strike for a week, and then return on higher wages. (unless employed by Coca-Cola who have a nasty habit of assassinating trade unionists).
Getting paid as I do canj be hard work, and does alter the focus, as the session also needs to be something of a performance.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
And just to clarify-- No one never asked to be paid nor did we expect it - just having a place for the session was great. The mone actually complicated my life, because someone (me) had to decide how to disperse the money and who would get it etc.
The most equitable solution I had was to sign up 2 people "host" each week and keep things going. Most of the leaders signed up for two sessions a month but came more often than that. I must admit that I found plenty of uses for my share...
The tab is $100.... so that's basically one drink per person and enough for a table full of "appetizers"... The tip money has been upwards of $50 sometimes, depending on the number of musicians and how much they've contributed and the number of generous listeners.
But if playing music is enough of a draw to keep the good players coming (and I certainly hope it is), then it sounds like the general consensus is to just keep leaving the tip money for the wait staff.....
Thanks for the input
Sharon
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by azfiddle
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I wouldn't count on strong musicians showing up at a session without a monetary incentive. Why go out to a pub session that is sure to be full of beginners with big egos, thrashing guitars, goatwhackers go leoir, would-be Tommy Makems with none of his talent, grace, or gravitas, ignorant punters who want you to play The Unicorn Song or some other POS...for FREE...when you could have a few nice tunes with people of similar mindset and ability in the comfort of your own home?
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Hanley
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I was going to say to Hanley "Then why don't you just play at home?", but you have said so yourself.
Rev otoh said:
"But also keep in mind that things work differently in Europe. It seems like gratuity is becoming a bit more common over there, but it's very different than in the U.S., where the wait staff makes basically ALL of their money off of gratuity."
That depends where you are in Europe. In the UK, tipping staff is relatively rare, except in restaurants. On the mainland, it's much more common, but varies from one country to another. In Germany, for instance, *not* tipping would in effect be a comment to the effect that "your service was utterly lousy, don't expect me to come here again".
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Lingpupa
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Sharon,
One word of warning about paying the session 'hosts'. It's not uncommon for that to happen around here, but often people have kept it quiet to avoid the problem of distribution of funds. I suspect they also realised that some of the regulars are far better musicians than the 'hosts', and might get a bit shirty if they realised one person was getting paid and it wasn't them.
What I have seen several times is that people are regulars for an extended period of time - turning up every week for a year or so - and then realise that there is payment involved but they've never been told about it. It immediately causes bad blood, and in several cases has caused these people to immediately drop out and never return.
I personally prefer to distribute the income by buying a round of drinks, or as cash if there's only the three of us there, but then I guess I'm a bit of a Commie at heart.
Payment is always tricky, especially if some of the players need the money more than others. I'm fortunate enough for it not to matter (although it's always nice to recieve, as a token of recognition for your efforts), but some of my friends live closer to the bread line. I have absolutely no issues with them taking the money as I've been there and know how much difference thirty bucks can make when you don't have any. But I still like to know what's going on. It's only common courtesy.
Eno
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by bc_box_player
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Nicely put, Box Player. There was a time when all my income came from sessions and gigs, so I appreciate what you are saying.
Obviously the majority of the visitors and regulars were better musicians than me (no, not on the drum) but that never seemed to matter. But everyone is aware that some are paid, and some are not.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Our session just restructured in this format and seems to be working out okay. What to do with the money has always been a sticky issue, and I've found that the following two principles keeps any snarkiness to a minimum:
1. Make sure everybody knows what's going on (and that they can speak up if they don't like it)
2. Distribute as fairly and evenly as possible
We rotate two hosts each week. They get paid a percentage of the till but have certain responsibilities- they are on the hook to be there during certain hours, make sure the tunes get started by a certain time, greet session participants, make sure everyone gets asked to contribute a set, get some songs in there, and start up sets during the lulls. They don't get paid much, but it's enough maybe for gas and sometimes that's enough to encourage somebody to come who lives more than 30 minutes away.
The tip money gets split evenly between all session participants and the bar tender. Most people have to drive at least 20 minutes or more to get there, so a few bucks is kinda nice.
If it's a real big take (holidays usually) we have in the past donated the funds to the local Comhaltas branch to put toward sending young musicians to the Irish Arts Week. We've also talked about saving it up and having a guest professional come in to host the session and conduct workshops.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by _Steph_
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
We give it all to the server, and we also each chip in towards the server's tip if it's not up around $50 or more. The punters don't have to know where the tip ends up.
Like Reverend says, it keeps the staff and management happy, and we do get very good service. They look forward to seeing us each week, even if they're not all that interested in the music. And it avoids the issue of any jealousies about how the money is handled.
Even at sessions where the take is distributed to the players at the end of the evening, I give my share to the bartender.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Jumper
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
azfiddle writes: “The management recently decided there wasn't enough business to justify continuing to pay money to the session”
This is the death knell of many sessions. You should almost be upfront with the management about the fact that sessions aren’t guaranteed to “justify” any expense when first arranging the session. But a publican who understands this and loves Irish music is few and far between. There’s no solution really; once this happens it’s probably time to move on.
~~~
Welshman writes: “For me the fire in a session comes from the fact we are all at the same level ie amateurs.”
Yes… for you. But sessions are different for everyone. The session you prefer is ‘volunteer’ or usually beginner to intermediate session and the player’s enthusiasm will be what sustains it… for a while anyway. Usually volunteer sessions fizzle out after a while unless you have a couple of good compulsive/obsessed players to hold it together.
~~~
bc_box_player writes: “One word of warning about paying the session 'hosts'. It's not uncommon for that to happen around here, but often people have kept it quiet to avoid the problem of distribution of funds.”
I don’t like being secretive because it might make people even more uncomfortable when they eventually find out. You might even find resentment from some people. You don’t necessarily have to divulge details, but most people will be happy to know that having paid hosts means that if they bother to get to the session the payment guarantees good players will be there to play with.
We have rotating hosts at our session and this eases the feeling that coming to the session is supporting another musician’s income. As one of the rotating hosts I still go to most of the sessions regardless of whether I’m being paid. Other hosts do the same if they don’t live too far away.
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Jumper writes: “Like Reverend says, it keeps the staff and management happy, and we do get very good service. They look forward to seeing us each week, even if they're not all that interested in the music. And it avoids the issue of any jealousies about how the money is handled. Even at sessions where the take is distributed to the players at the end of the evening, I give my share to the bartender.”
Wow, this is a completely different kind of paid session where the musicians pay in order to buy off staff and management to ensure the session continues. I understand how in some places it’s either do this or play at home, but it still strikes me as a backwards approach.
At our session the rotating hosts are paid modestly, but it’s enough to get them to show up as scheduled. Session participants know these hosts will be there to keep the ball rolling and ensure they won’t find that no one else is there when they show up, or that they won’t end up playing with a group of novice players. (No offense to novice players, but unless there are other strong players there as well it can be hard work to lift the session, and sometimes seem impossible. A good session needs a quorum of strong players.)
As far as drinks go, the bartender gives a dollar off to musicians for each drink and we tip the bartenders accordingly as we get them to keep the bartenders smiling. We don’t have a waitress, so I have no idea how to deal with that. Perhaps just tipping them for each drink as well will add up without any huddle at the end of the night being necessary.
If tips show up on the table we usually hand it out to people who had to cross a toll bridge or drive a long distance. If everyone’s local we’ll give it to the bartender. But we don’t get tips on the table very often.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I have played in sessions in my town since 1983, in 3 different pubs, and we are having free drinks - beer, soda pops, coffe. At the Pub we're playing now, we are getting a glass with an amount off money, and we can buy drinks for a reduced price (half-price), and I think that's a good thing, but we have never been offered money, and I certainly not would like it. If You are paid, You have to be there at every session.
A session is for me, not a 'gig', but a place where I can meet my friends for a couple of hours playing some good music, chatting and having fun, and I'll be there because I like to play music, and I would play, even if I should pay my own drinks.
And there are no tips involved.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by ceili
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Imagine having to worry about what to do with the money you are given for a session....... We turn up in a pub, the landlord and other customers tolerate 'that lot up the other end'. they even disconnect the speaker from the stereo for our benefit. There may be people who turn up to listen bt we meet to see friends, catch up on news, play tunes. Here sessions tend to be early in the week, when otherwise the pub would be pretty empty and we pay for our own beer. But then we can talk all night and play no tunes at all if that's how we fell. Don't know if that's typical in the UK but it's what we do here.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by mehere
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I enjoy my sessions more now that there is no money involved, just free drinks. And we get a wider variety of players down as there is no quibbling about a few quid, no-one is worried about it. The sums of money you are talking about are paltry anyway, so giving it to charity seems the best idea. But what charity? What about the NSC? http://www.nicaraguasc.org.uk/
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Arra quit being such a tight arse.
You are taking up two tables and so the waitress will inevitably be loosing out on earnings.
Just have a proper session, expect nothing except respect and give the waitress her money.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Mehere, I like the sounds of your session... Nothing is expected from the night except to meet up with your buddies. Nice.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
When I saw the heading I thought this thread would be about tips on playing and was intrigued.
It never occurred to me that it would be about money because they just don't tip in local pubs, that I've heard of.
So thankfully, what to do with all the money is a stress factor I don't have to deal with.
Phantom Button's story about the barman selling drink for a dollar less, then pocketing the dollar as a tip, wouldn't be called "tipping" here - it would be called "embezzling" or "skimming"
Different culture I guess.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Bren
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Phantom didn't say the bartender pockets the difference. He just said they tip him accordingly. Whatever that means, probably for the full price, I would guess.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by kennedy
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
As someone who gigs (other styles), my husband and I enjoy going to a public place to play music with folks where there is no money involved. We feel like we have the freedom to be amatures, people that just enjoy learning and playing the music.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by wyogal
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Folks,
I'm sure you have misunderstood PB's remarks about the bartender; we get a consistent welcome at that venue (even the slow session, which has a host who is likely unpaid, and surely only occasionally delights the punters with the quality of our playing), and the bartender is a fine singer too. All of the bartenders here are an integral part of this scene, even those who don't sing or play, and I wouldn't dream of not tipping them very generously every chance I get.
I think it unlikely that the regular sessions at this pub, despite their brilliance, bring in extra income for the publican - the players overall drink far less than punters.
So getting back to the original post, I do think it's a very decent gesture to compensate the wait staff for their lost tips to the degree you can, while also maintaining enough of a fee to guarantee competent hosts for the sessions. As for players who are not hosts, I don't see why they should need any compensation, as they have the benefit of a guaranteed session schedule and a welcoming pub to play it in.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Thanks for clarifying what I meant, Kennedy and Keith. And yes, Kennedy, I tip him as if it were full price and then some.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I would find it sensible for all the aforementioned resaons to use tips to pay the waitstaff.
We don't have wait staff. I'll throw a tip in the jar for the crew behind the counter that makes the drinks when I buy my coffee. I hardly ever see them come out from behind the counter.
# Posted on January 5th 2008 by wyogal
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
Why not tip them at the point of purchase when you buy your coffee? (Or are you referring to their tip jar and not the session's tip jar?)
# Posted on January 5th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: what to do with tips from a session? and related questions
I knew what you meant Phantom - the bit where you pay less for the drink and then give the difference to him/her before he/she pockets it, is called "money laundering"
Just indulging in a wind-up, of course I tip when in the US.
Since the barman , or I suppose you could call him a "waitstaff", at the pub where we go for a tune also owns the pub and doesn't give discounts to musicians (about 90% of his clientele), he will be waitstaffing a long time between tips I'm afraid
# Posted on January 6th 2008 by Bren