I have recently (very recently!) taken up the B/C 23-key, 8 bass button accordion. I have a copy of "The Box" tutor book/CD and am teaching myself from scratch. (I already play piano to a pretty good standard so can read music.)
The book makes no mention of what fingering to use other than the fact that the thumb and little finger are not used.
Does anyone know of any available online fingerings that might ensure I don't set off down the wrong path when learning pieces. Or do people just work out their own?
Also, is it true that only three fingers should be used at all times, or do people "break the rules"?
You will need the pinky particularly on cross row and also for doing 'cuts' (grace notes on certain bellows expressions) and advanced working playing ornaments. The pinky is a resource to be used. As piano player you know you can't survive without it.
John Williams' technique is superb as is Peter Browne's. Both do the cuts to perfection. Also if you watch their DVD's you will see they both use the pinky extensively.
The thumb provides stability for the hand even though it doesn't play any notes. Get used to moving it as you move up and down the scales.
I am sure using the little finger would make you more versatile. I certainly use mine,(although I play DG, not BC). I saw Finbarr Dwyer play recently, (virtuoso BC player), and he was certainly using his little finger.I think some people are worried that the little finger will be too weak, but if you've played piano that will have strengthened the finger so it shouldn't be a problem for you.
It's probably a good idea for a beginner who has the finger strength and dexterity already, to try not to use the little finger whenever there's a good alternative. That way, when you've got the basic tune flowing and are ready to introduce ornaments, all of a sudden you've got that extra finger available for use. If you rely on it too heavily for the basic melody, you'll need to rework the fingering to add cuts on notes where you were using it already.
For someone who doesn't have the strength and dexterity already, it's probably good to start working on that right away.
be prepared to spend the rest of your life working out alternative fingerings for the tunes you learn on the B/C. It's part of the package. And forget your little finger (and the basses as well for a year or twenty two). Get good at making your three good fingers walk up and down the keyboard and don't expect to play with a fixed right hand position. Unless it's the One Note Samba, you can't get away with it.
beware well intentioned advice from others - in terms of fingering B/C is an entirely different animal from any other box - G/D, C#/D or whatever.
everyone's hands are different and you've got to try to work out your own optimal way of getting around on the buttons. It's going to take time but your efforts will be fully rewarded.
most importantly, get the rhythm of the tune hard wired in your head before trying to put fingering sequences together to play it, otherwise the mechanics of your muscles and tendons will dictate where the pulses fall when you get up to playing speed - possibly why some box players have trouble keeping strict time. Don't stick with a fingering sequence if you find it isn't delivering, however long it's taken you to learn it. Dump it and start again, sooner the better.
I'm in the 'use the pinky' group. Great reference to Finbarr Dwyer. Another unbelievably accomplished player who doesn't sacrifice any resource. Listening to him, it's hard to believe he doesn't have more than the three fingers plus pinky available.
MBC has a good point on the rythym. But at your stage in his, forget the speed until you have the mechanics of the box down. And get a metronome.
H T - What gave you the idea that accordion players only use three fingers
I teach B/C fingering. I tell my pupils "God gave you four fingers to play these buttons...use them. Take for example the Jig..The Cliffs of Moher. I use that as an example of a stretch between the index finger and the little finger. The tune is in Am and most players will play the low A on the box at the end of the second part. The first part then starts on the highest A on the box and that is a stretch of eight buttons from one note to another in jig tempo. Try it using only three fingers...
When I first started (four years ago) I had to work out specific fingering for each note in a tune, and if I got out of whack the whole thing fell down like a house of cards. Nowadays I don't think about it at all, and in fact use different fingering patterns instinctively if I'm using different ornaments for the same phrase.
It's a normal part of learning the box, and just something everyone needs to get through. Try to concentrate on hearing the tune as you play, rather than thinking where your finger needs to be (I know, far easier said than done...). If you've got the box held right you can't see your fingers anyway.
And definately don't consider what players of the DG and C#/D are doing - it'll just confuse you.
I use my little finger a lot, but I had twenty years of piano up my sleeve, and it still affects my timing slightly, especially when I get tired.
Oh, and DON'T get a metronome. Get some trad CDs, Amazing Slow Downer (or Windows Media Player) to bring them down to your speed and play along with them. Or even better find someone who's more accomplished than you but willing to play along with you. There are also quite a few slow player resources on the web - by which I mean tunes purposely played slowly for beginners to use as practice aids, not people who haven't quite got it together yet
I've still got some 'tab' diagrams I generated when I was starting out that have key maps and fingerings shown on them. Drop me a line if you think they'd be useful and I'll e-mail you some (click on my user name to send me a mail).
They're either jpeg or bitmap format (I wrote a simple program to let me record the fingerings I'd worked out, but never quite got round to polishing it enough for public distribution), and the keymaps are colour coded for push / pull. They helped me a lot in the beginning.
The program was written so that it could work with D/G C/C# / whatever - I even tried it with whistle. Then I decided I'd be better off spending my time learning tunes than messing around on my computer...
Thanks to everyone for all this helpful advice. I also have 20-plus years of piano playing behind me so might experiment with a bit of pinky playing. I also have a pretty big span so might have to rethink some fingerings anyway!
Much appreciate all this help and can't wiat to get the box out again tonight!
zippydw: "John Williams' technique is superb as is Peter Browne's. Both do the cuts to perfection. Also if you watch their DVD's you will see they both use the pinky extensively."
Are you watching a different Peter Browne DVD from the one I have, zippy? I'm not sure he uses the little finger _at all_ - if he does, it's certainly not "extensively".
Back to the pinky thing. From my own experience, I progressed much faster when I concentrated on the three fingers : increased confidence and mastery of the keyboard. It made a huge difference. Once I got comfortable, the little finger was still there when I needed it but I used it (and still use it) much less than when I started. Why don't you try it , for crissake's, it won't kill ya !
That's my story exactly, pennhorse, couldn't have put it better.
The advice to stop using the pinky was given to me by a great player who can play B/C and C#/D with equal ease and skill. So yes, give it a serious trial, and if it doesn't help you, you'll be talking from experience - just like pennhorse and I.
As a matter of interest I too play Cliffs of Moher (at about 126) and have no difficulty jumping from bottom A to the next bit without little finger assistance. In fact the jump in the versions I've heard (and play) is from bottom A to top E and I play both notes with my first finger.
If I really thought that it was worth the trouble, I'd use my little finger too.
I find that when using the small finger it truly does give you more scope, if even a split second to invite an accurate pause /grace note while freeing up the main fingers for a comfortable stretch to the lower notes. The most important point for me is the knowledge that the hand of 4 fingers is in its intended position on the instrument and hence its most comfortable and ....on this and the thumb topic I find It is very important in teaching to ensure correct fingering and thumb placement from the beginning to prevent future unnecessary difficulties... BUT!.... the master Mairtin O'Connor plays with his thumb behind the keyboard lending seriously heavy ammunition to students unwiling to thumb it!
I am not advocating not using the pinky at all, it doesn't make sense. (and I think Jeeves Tones will agree with me). Just use it sparingly, you may find it extremely rewarding. Both on B/C , which I used to play,and C#/D.
Then again, as millionyears says, we're all different.
Irish B/C accordion fingerings
Irish B/C accordion fingerings
I have recently (very recently!) taken up the B/C 23-key, 8 bass button accordion. I have a copy of "The Box" tutor book/CD and am teaching myself from scratch. (I already play piano to a pretty good standard so can read music.)
The book makes no mention of what fingering to use other than the fact that the thumb and little finger are not used.
Does anyone know of any available online fingerings that might ensure I don't set off down the wrong path when learning pieces. Or do people just work out their own?
Also, is it true that only three fingers should be used at all times, or do people "break the rules"?
Thanks
H-T
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Harmony_Twitchell
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
You will need the pinky particularly on cross row and also for doing 'cuts' (grace notes on certain bellows expressions) and advanced working playing ornaments. The pinky is a resource to be used. As piano player you know you can't survive without it.
John Williams' technique is superb as is Peter Browne's. Both do the cuts to perfection. Also if you watch their DVD's you will see they both use the pinky extensively.
The thumb provides stability for the hand even though it doesn't play any notes. Get used to moving it as you move up and down the scales.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by zippydw
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
I am sure using the little finger would make you more versatile. I certainly use mine,(although I play DG, not BC). I saw Finbarr Dwyer play recently, (virtuoso BC player), and he was certainly using his little finger.I think some people are worried that the little finger will be too weak, but if you've played piano that will have strengthened the finger so it shouldn't be a problem for you.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by cathycook
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
It's probably a good idea for a beginner who has the finger strength and dexterity already, to try not to use the little finger whenever there's a good alternative. That way, when you've got the basic tune flowing and are ready to introduce ornaments, all of a sudden you've got that extra finger available for use. If you rely on it too heavily for the basic melody, you'll need to rework the fingering to add cuts on notes where you were using it already.
For someone who doesn't have the strength and dexterity already, it's probably good to start working on that right away.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
be prepared to spend the rest of your life working out alternative fingerings for the tunes you learn on the B/C. It's part of the package. And forget your little finger (and the basses as well for a year or twenty two). Get good at making your three good fingers walk up and down the keyboard and don't expect to play with a fixed right hand position. Unless it's the One Note Samba, you can't get away with it.
beware well intentioned advice from others - in terms of fingering B/C is an entirely different animal from any other box - G/D, C#/D or whatever.
everyone's hands are different and you've got to try to work out your own optimal way of getting around on the buttons. It's going to take time but your efforts will be fully rewarded.
most importantly, get the rhythm of the tune hard wired in your head before trying to put fingering sequences together to play it, otherwise the mechanics of your muscles and tendons will dictate where the pulses fall when you get up to playing speed - possibly why some box players have trouble keeping strict time. Don't stick with a fingering sequence if you find it isn't delivering, however long it's taken you to learn it. Dump it and start again, sooner the better.
That's how I see it after 5 years on B/C
Good luck
MYBC
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
I'm in the 'use the pinky' group. Great reference to Finbarr Dwyer. Another unbelievably accomplished player who doesn't sacrifice any resource. Listening to him, it's hard to believe he doesn't have more than the three fingers plus pinky available.
MBC has a good point on the rythym. But at your stage in his, forget the speed until you have the mechanics of the box down. And get a metronome.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by zippydw
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
H T - What gave you the idea that accordion players only use three fingers
I teach B/C fingering. I tell my pupils "God gave you four fingers to play these buttons...use them. Take for example the Jig..The Cliffs of Moher. I use that as an example of a stretch between the index finger and the little finger. The tune is in Am and most players will play the low A on the box at the end of the second part. The first part then starts on the highest A on the box and that is a stretch of eight buttons from one note to another in jig tempo. Try it using only three fingers...
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
When I first started (four years ago) I had to work out specific fingering for each note in a tune, and if I got out of whack the whole thing fell down like a house of cards. Nowadays I don't think about it at all, and in fact use different fingering patterns instinctively if I'm using different ornaments for the same phrase.
It's a normal part of learning the box, and just something everyone needs to get through. Try to concentrate on hearing the tune as you play, rather than thinking where your finger needs to be (I know, far easier said than done...). If you've got the box held right you can't see your fingers anyway.
And definately don't consider what players of the DG and C#/D are doing - it'll just confuse you.
I use my little finger a lot, but I had twenty years of piano up my sleeve, and it still affects my timing slightly, especially when I get tired.
Oh, and DON'T get a metronome. Get some trad CDs, Amazing Slow Downer (or Windows Media Player) to bring them down to your speed and play along with them. Or even better find someone who's more accomplished than you but willing to play along with you. There are also quite a few slow player resources on the web - by which I mean tunes purposely played slowly for beginners to use as practice aids, not people who haven't quite got it together yet
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by bc_box_player
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
I've still got some 'tab' diagrams I generated when I was starting out that have key maps and fingerings shown on them. Drop me a line if you think they'd be useful and I'll e-mail you some (click on my user name to send me a mail).
They're either jpeg or bitmap format (I wrote a simple program to let me record the fingerings I'd worked out, but never quite got round to polishing it enough for public distribution), and the keymaps are colour coded for push / pull. They helped me a lot in the beginning.
The program was written so that it could work with D/G C/C# / whatever - I even tried it with whistle. Then I decided I'd be better off spending my time learning tunes than messing around on my computer...
Eno
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by bc_box_player
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
Thanks to everyone for all this helpful advice. I also have 20-plus years of piano playing behind me so might experiment with a bit of pinky playing. I also have a pretty big span so might have to rethink some fingerings anyway!
Much appreciate all this help and can't wiat to get the box out again tonight!
H-T
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Harmony_Twitchell
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
zippydw: "John Williams' technique is superb as is Peter Browne's. Both do the cuts to perfection. Also if you watch their DVD's you will see they both use the pinky extensively."
Are you watching a different Peter Browne DVD from the one I have, zippy? I'm not sure he uses the little finger _at all_ - if he does, it's certainly not "extensively".
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
Back to the pinky thing. From my own experience, I progressed much faster when I concentrated on the three fingers : increased confidence and mastery of the keyboard. It made a huge difference. Once I got comfortable, the little finger was still there when I needed it but I used it (and still use it) much less than when I started. Why don't you try it , for crissake's, it won't kill ya !
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
That's my story exactly, pennhorse, couldn't have put it better.
The advice to stop using the pinky was given to me by a great player who can play B/C and C#/D with equal ease and skill. So yes, give it a serious trial, and if it doesn't help you, you'll be talking from experience - just like pennhorse and I.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
Free Reed:
As a matter of interest I too play Cliffs of Moher (at about 126) and have no difficulty jumping from bottom A to the next bit without little finger assistance. In fact the jump in the versions I've heard (and play) is from bottom A to top E and I play both notes with my first finger.
If I really thought that it was worth the trouble, I'd use my little finger too.
We're all different.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
I find that when using the small finger it truly does give you more scope, if even a split second to invite an accurate pause /grace note while freeing up the main fingers for a comfortable stretch to the lower notes. The most important point for me is the knowledge that the hand of 4 fingers is in its intended position on the instrument and hence its most comfortable and ....on this and the thumb topic I find It is very important in teaching to ensure correct fingering and thumb placement from the beginning to prevent future unnecessary difficulties... BUT!.... the master Mairtin O'Connor plays with his thumb behind the keyboard lending seriously heavy ammunition to students unwiling to thumb it!
# Posted on January 5th 2008 by conormccarthy
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
I am not advocating not using the pinky at all, it doesn't make sense. (and I think Jeeves Tones will agree with me). Just use it sparingly, you may find it extremely rewarding. Both on B/C , which I used to play,and C#/D.
Then again, as millionyears says, we're all different.
# Posted on January 5th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
You guys are all different, but I'm the only one who's the same. That's what sets me apart.
# Posted on January 5th 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Irish B/C accordion fingerings
Time for your medication, Gary.
# Posted on January 5th 2008 by pennhorse