They're re-running all the Sharpe series on a digital free channel here in the UK at the moment - interesting to see how John Tam's hair grows as the series progresses, although I keep missing episodes to do boring household chores. Does anyone know how to make my VHS recorder tape off a digital channel ?
Anyway, my real question is; is any of the incidental and end-title music trad, apart from "Over the Hills and Far Away" ? I was playing one bit of it on the concertina and SO said "Oh, it's just a re-working of "Battle of the Somme' " which the Albion Band had used in Lark Rise at the National Theatre, although I feel I was playing a different tune, but could only remember one part.
I've noticed a tendency among score-writers to unconsciously (or perhaps knowingly) borrow themes from period pieces. It wouldn't surprise me if the piece you are confused about is actually written around that theme and not actually the whole piece itself. "Ashokan Farewell" from the documentary "The Civil War" is a great example. It's a piece that sounds very much to be from mid-19th century Appalachia but in fact was written specifically for the film, and while I can't specifically pick out any plagiarism in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it borrowed heavily from traditional melodies.
Before anyone else steps in, was not Ashokan Farewell written as a piece to be played at the end of a week's music workshops at, I believe, a place called Ashokan, hence the title ?
Ashokan Farewell captures the "skin" of a 19th century fiddle lament. It's the particular set of ornamentations that I hear and say yes, appalachia, or yes, o'carolan. Probably the melody too but hard to say. When I started to really listen to traditional Irish music, I would feel that sense of recognition, then realize I was thinking of a Bing Crosby movie!
"I composed Ashokan Farewell in 1982 shortly after our Fiddle & Dance Camps had come to an end for the season. I was feeling a great sense of loss and longing for the music, the dancing and the community of people that had developed at Ashokan that summer. The transition from living at a secluded woodland camp with a small group of people who needed little excuse to celebrate the joy of living, back to life as usual, with traffic, newscasts, telephones and impersonal relationships, had been difficult. By the time the tune took form, I was in tears. I kept it to myself for months, unable to fully understand the emotions that welled up whenever I played it. I had no idea that this simple tune could effect others in the same way.
Ashokan Farewell was written in the style of a Scottish lament. I sometimes introduce it as, "a Scottish lament written by a Jewish guy from the Bronx." I lived in the Bronx until the age of sixteen."
While we're sort of on/not on the topic, unless I'm mistaken, Jay's daughter, Ruth, as well as Tao Rodriguez-Seeger (of that Seeger), are in that excellent band "The Mammals". What a hit they are! Catch them live if you can. They were in Canberra at the National Folk Festival to standing room only every time they played.
Interesting that Jay explicitly states that it was written in a Scottish style, because when I first heard the tune I assumed it was a traditional Scottish tune, specifically the genre Scottish fiddlers call "slow Strathspey".
Perhaps many people out there haven't heard Scottish fiddlers play "slow Strathspeys", so they would miss the similarity. It is a distinct genre, different from "airs" per se but not unlike airs.
Jay's compostion has a number of "slow Strathspey" features, the turns and "Scotch snaps" in particular.
In its translation into the Irish session scene Ashokan Farewell has lost these distinctive features and has turned into a waltz-like air.
I should have specified that the first time I heard Ashokan Farewell it was being played by the composer. In his hands the tune has the distinctive Scottish "slow Strathspey" feel.
I never for a moment would mistake it for an Appalachian tune- it just sounds too Scottish.
I stand well corrected. Never picked up any Scottish feel from the tune myself, most of the fiddlers I've heard play it were very much a bluegrass type of player, so I imagine the interpretation was rather different.
Oh and did we ever come to a conclusion as to the traditional nature of the soundtrack mentioned in the original post?
I watched some of the Sharpe series earlier this year. They seemed to have the Irish soldiers playing 'Merrily Kissed The Quaker' whenever there was feasting- it came up in at least two episodes.
Sharpe's sidekick also offered to play The Salamanca at one point on the whistle.
I only caught about 2 and a half episodes, including the Waterloo one, where he won the battle for Wellington ( of course ! ). Lots of empty space on that battlefield - well, extras are expensive.
Anyone got any more answers to my original question ?
And thanks for the links on Ashokan Farewell - I remember Jay Ungar playing it with Aly Bain on the Transatlantic Sessions, and he made it plain that the inspiration was Scots.
There is a CD of the music from Sharpe produced by John Tams. On it there is a mix of credits from "trad" to "Trad arr Tams" to original compositions. This applies to the songs and the tunes. The theme music and end music are composed but a lot of the incidental music is trad arr. Tams.
It's worth getting a copy if you are interested it is 10 years old and was quite cheap on Amazon when I bought it. There were a lot of threads on Mudcat on this theme but I think the CD is a better version of the truth!
Don't know about recording but you can also buy the DVDs quite cheap now - I had also been missing episodes and found it was worth watching them in order.
About the Sharpe stuff: I read the books. Are the films worth watching? I've not seen them, but I got the impression that they were rather low-budget affairs.
Some of the books would be worthy of big-budget big-screen versions.
I now understand that you are talking about dramatizations of the Sharpe novels written by Bernard Cornwell; some of which I have read, along with his excellent sailing stories.
PJMcGovern:
Which "Civil War" documentary are you referring to? There is, of course, no clue to be found in your bio.
The "Civil War" documentary is the one by Ken Burns who also did "Baseball" and "Jazz". Oddly, he chose to have "Ashokan Farewell", a modern piece composed in a Scottish style, to be in effect the theme for the entire series. That tune plays over and over on various instruments. The rest of the music seems to be actual contempory (Civil War period) tunes.
Well, yes, of course, I remember him in Muckram Wakes - does that date me a bit ?
But all credit to him, he's kept on plugging at it, got a lot of folkie music in the series, ( let's NOT mention the electric guitar solo over the credits, SOOOO '80's ! ).
And I LOVED the American Civil War series when they showed it over here, an incredible amount of scholarship, information, and brilliant camerawork ( considering they did not have movie camers for ( how many ? ) decades you would barely know, the way the camera would pan over some of the early still photography of the time.
Sharpe's music
Sharpe's music
They're re-running all the Sharpe series on a digital free channel here in the UK at the moment - interesting to see how John Tam's hair grows as the series progresses, although I keep missing episodes to do boring household chores. Does anyone know how to make my VHS recorder tape off a digital channel ?
Anyway, my real question is; is any of the incidental and end-title music trad, apart from "Over the Hills and Far Away" ? I was playing one bit of it on the concertina and SO said "Oh, it's just a re-working of "Battle of the Somme' " which the Albion Band had used in Lark Rise at the National Theatre, although I feel I was playing a different tune, but could only remember one part.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sharpe's music
I've noticed a tendency among score-writers to unconsciously (or perhaps knowingly) borrow themes from period pieces. It wouldn't surprise me if the piece you are confused about is actually written around that theme and not actually the whole piece itself. "Ashokan Farewell" from the documentary "The Civil War" is a great example. It's a piece that sounds very much to be from mid-19th century Appalachia but in fact was written specifically for the film, and while I can't specifically pick out any plagiarism in it, I wouldn't be surprised if it borrowed heavily from traditional melodies.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by PJMcGorvin
Re: Sharpe's music
Before anyone else steps in, was not Ashokan Farewell written as a piece to be played at the end of a week's music workshops at, I believe, a place called Ashokan, hence the title ?
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sharpe's music
GP - That's the story I know. The tune was later used in the Civil War series on TV
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Sharpe's music
Ashokan Farewell captures the "skin" of a 19th century fiddle lament. It's the particular set of ornamentations that I hear and say yes, appalachia, or yes, o'carolan. Probably the melody too but hard to say. When I started to really listen to traditional Irish music, I would feel that sense of recognition, then realize I was thinking of a Bing Crosby movie!
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Dave McGrath
Re: Sharpe's music
Here's what Jay Ungar has to say about the writing of Ashokan Farewell.
From:-
http://www.jayandmolly.com/ashokanfaq.shtml
"I composed Ashokan Farewell in 1982 shortly after our Fiddle & Dance Camps had come to an end for the season. I was feeling a great sense of loss and longing for the music, the dancing and the community of people that had developed at Ashokan that summer. The transition from living at a secluded woodland camp with a small group of people who needed little excuse to celebrate the joy of living, back to life as usual, with traffic, newscasts, telephones and impersonal relationships, had been difficult. By the time the tune took form, I was in tears. I kept it to myself for months, unable to fully understand the emotions that welled up whenever I played it. I had no idea that this simple tune could effect others in the same way.
Ashokan Farewell was written in the style of a Scottish lament. I sometimes introduce it as, "a Scottish lament written by a Jewish guy from the Bronx." I lived in the Bronx until the age of sixteen."
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Sharpe's music
While we're sort of on/not on the topic, unless I'm mistaken, Jay's daughter, Ruth, as well as Tao Rodriguez-Seeger (of that Seeger), are in that excellent band "The Mammals". What a hit they are! Catch them live if you can. They were in Canberra at the National Folk Festival to standing room only every time they played.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Sharpe's music
http://www.themammals.net/ci/1276/Home_Page/
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Sharpe's music
Interesting that Jay explicitly states that it was written in a Scottish style, because when I first heard the tune I assumed it was a traditional Scottish tune, specifically the genre Scottish fiddlers call "slow Strathspey".
Perhaps many people out there haven't heard Scottish fiddlers play "slow Strathspeys", so they would miss the similarity. It is a distinct genre, different from "airs" per se but not unlike airs.
Jay's compostion has a number of "slow Strathspey" features, the turns and "Scotch snaps" in particular.
In its translation into the Irish session scene Ashokan Farewell has lost these distinctive features and has turned into a waltz-like air.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Sharpe's music
I should have specified that the first time I heard Ashokan Farewell it was being played by the composer. In his hands the tune has the distinctive Scottish "slow Strathspey" feel.
I never for a moment would mistake it for an Appalachian tune- it just sounds too Scottish.
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Sharpe's music
I stand well corrected. Never picked up any Scottish feel from the tune myself, most of the fiddlers I've heard play it were very much a bluegrass type of player, so I imagine the interpretation was rather different.
Oh and did we ever come to a conclusion as to the traditional nature of the soundtrack mentioned in the original post?
# Posted on January 1st 2008 by PJMcGorvin
Re: Sharpe's music
Sounds American to me.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Sharpe's music
I watched some of the Sharpe series earlier this year. They seemed to have the Irish soldiers playing 'Merrily Kissed The Quaker' whenever there was feasting- it came up in at least two episodes.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by P-K
Re: Sharpe's music
Sharpe's sidekick also offered to play The Salamanca at one point on the whistle.
I only caught about 2 and a half episodes, including the Waterloo one, where he won the battle for Wellington ( of course ! ). Lots of empty space on that battlefield - well, extras are expensive.
Anyone got any more answers to my original question ?
And thanks for the links on Ashokan Farewell - I remember Jay Ungar playing it with Aly Bain on the Transatlantic Sessions, and he made it plain that the inspiration was Scots.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sharpe's music
There is a CD of the music from Sharpe produced by John Tams. On it there is a mix of credits from "trad" to "Trad arr Tams" to original compositions. This applies to the songs and the tunes. The theme music and end music are composed but a lot of the incidental music is trad arr. Tams.
It's worth getting a copy if you are interested it is 10 years old and was quite cheap on Amazon when I bought it. There were a lot of threads on Mudcat on this theme but I think the CD is a better version of the truth!
Don't know about recording but you can also buy the DVDs quite cheap now - I had also been missing episodes and found it was worth watching them in order.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by helenakitt
Re: Sharpe's music
About the Sharpe stuff: I read the books. Are the films worth watching? I've not seen them, but I got the impression that they were rather low-budget affairs.
Some of the books would be worthy of big-budget big-screen versions.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Sharpe's music
I now understand that you are talking about dramatizations of the Sharpe novels written by Bernard Cornwell; some of which I have read, along with his excellent sailing stories.
PJMcGovern:
Which "Civil War" documentary are you referring to? There is, of course, no clue to be found in your bio.
# Posted on January 2nd 2008 by oldstrings
Re: Sharpe's music
The "Civil War" documentary is the one by Ken Burns who also did "Baseball" and "Jazz". Oddly, he chose to have "Ashokan Farewell", a modern piece composed in a Scottish style, to be in effect the theme for the entire series. That tune plays over and over on various instruments. The rest of the music seems to be actual contempory (Civil War period) tunes.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by Richard D Cook
Re: Sharpe's music
John Tams was a folk musician long before he was an actor.
# Posted on January 3rd 2008 by c.g.
Re: Sharpe's music
Well, yes, of course, I remember him in Muckram Wakes - does that date me a bit ?
But all credit to him, he's kept on plugging at it, got a lot of folkie music in the series, ( let's NOT mention the electric guitar solo over the credits, SOOOO '80's ! ).
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sharpe's music
And I LOVED the American Civil War series when they showed it over here, an incredible amount of scholarship, information, and brilliant camerawork ( considering they did not have movie camers for ( how many ? ) decades you would barely know, the way the camera would pan over some of the early still photography of the time.
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Sharpe's music
Yes, Guernsey Pete - you must be almost as old as me!
# Posted on January 4th 2008 by c.g.
Re: Sharpe's music
To my knowledge is it actually just called "The Civil War" and it plays on PBS every now and then.
# Posted on January 6th 2008 by PJMcGorvin