In the spirit of the question just posted--about resolutions--I've decided to ask about my own resolution: to start trying to learn Irish tunes on the fiddle. I have played guitar for many years and just bought my first fiddle this month. The only specifically Irish classes offered in my area are for kids, and, while there are a lot of beginning fiddle classes (old time, folk) for adults, you have to get to a certain level to be allowed entrance to the Irish fiddle classes. And needless to say I am an absolute beginner (at age 41) who can only squawk through Cluck Old Hen, Angelina Baker, etc. So where do I go from here? Intro fiddle classes in the hopes of getting to Irish by the end of the year? Private lessons? (not sure I have the budget for that.) Any good books/cds? Hours a day at home with my O'Neill's tune book and iPod? Is it worth it to learn scales, arpeggios,etc. (as I did with guitar a long time ago), or should I try just jumping in with tunes? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks and Happy New Year!
A teacher absolutely would be best--violin or fiddle, at this stage it doesn't matter so much. If there's no teacher, here are my suggestions:
Get used to the bow. Bow long single notes, to learn how to keep the bow at the correct angle throughout the stroke. Then try "rocking" the bow from one string to another, in mid-stroke. That's called "slurring across the strings," something that Irish fiddlers do a lot of.
Play scales and arpeggios every day, to get your intonation right. It's a combination of ear training and muscle memory. You can put on some music that tends to stay in one key, and just play scales on top of it--that will help you stay on pitch.
Or--just keep scratching out those tunes on your own, tidying up as you go. If you learned scales and arpeggios on guitar, you pretty much know what needs to be done.
Well, I recomend scales, etc. Lessons fromthe best violinist you can find, perhaps only one or two for financial reasons. [more the better of course]THe first months are most important so you dont develop bad habits.
My recomendation is treat your aim as two seperate issues, learning the instrument, and learning tunes. Scales arpegio, patterns etc are the building blocks of the language.
Study books dvd's etc from the best players in the world.
As far as trad goes listen to the pure drop, not just fiddlers, but concertina, whistle etc etc.
Do you accompany a trad musician. I recomend that as you are a guitarist if you possibly can. this will help you get used to the melodies, then learning to play them on the fiddle wont be too hard.
Just try to pronounce the notes and scales, jam and improvise with a friend using the major scales in minor modes, then you wont be constrained by a set form,but can freely 'sing' through your instrument with out having to play a specific tune. Intonation with your left and prononciation with your right are the first stages. There are many exercises for your right hand.
Try getting ;A new approach to violin playing. Kato Havas.
Any thing by Yehudi Menhuin.
The simplicity of violin playing series.Robert Juzek
Personally I view reading music as a completely seperate issue. I would not recomend using paper while you are learning to play. Play by ear. once you can play, then whether you choose to read is up to you.
Learning tunes should be done bar by ber from a trad teacher, once you can play your scales and shtuff.
This is my considered opinion, nothing more.
Get some good strings. Perhaps Jagar? with a Eudoxa wound top E.
Spend money on a good bow if you can.
Dont look for a 'reward' for quite a while. JUst tip away realising that wth one eye on the destination you have only one for the journey.
Bow control is the essence of fiddling, the left hand is less than half the story.
It would certainly help if you'd included some information about your location, either in this thread or in your personal details, just in case there was somebody local who might be of assistance.
If you went to the old time/folk classes you would meet others who could help you. We used to have an old time fiddle class and it was full of people at all stages of learning, including experts.
Congratulations on this new beginning! Playing fiddle is wonderful! I would underline the importance of getting a teacher right away so that you can learn how to hold the fiddle and move the bow correctly. There is nothing wrong with entire lessons spent on this. It may not be gratifying, but if you take the time to get it right when you're just beginning, you will be saving yourself a lot of grief later.
Most here on the mustard board have already read my tale of woe about having to relearn bowing technique circa age 15, after a few years of playing. And woeful it certainly was. But it can be avoided by some patience on your part.
I'm with jig about reading music. I think it's more important to get the feel of the instrument. If it serves you later, go for it. But focus on having the fiddle feel right to you now.
I was 38 when I started fiddle and have been playing nearly 9 years. If its Irish tunes you want then don't go for any of the classical tutors or books. One-to-one lessons were definatley best for me. I had to start with a classical teacher as its all I could find and he did me good for intonation, scales etc but you may not need that if you already play another instrument. I moved on to a general folk fiddler for lessons but that was too far. When I found my current Irish teacher it was ideal and I've been going for over 4 years. and learn totally by ear- for me its quicker and more fun but can be hard at the start- like everything. Yes- a teacher you get on with is the best IMHO.
I've dabbled with books and have found Paul McNevins Irish fiddle book with accompanying CD useful.
Hope this helps and good luck- its worth it in the end!
Thanks to all for your comments. To MacCruiskeen: I am in the great city of Chicago. I've taken classes at the Old Town School--they're not currently offering Irish fiddle but even if they did, I think you have to get through Fiddle 3 to enroll. I've contacted the Irish Music School about private lessons but haven't heard back (the classes they seem to offer are for kids). If anyone knows of fiddle teachers in Chicago, let me know! And thanks again to all who responded.
I would contact the Irish Music School again for private fiddle lessons. They are setting up their schedules for January and you could get some private instruction through them. Set up an every two week or once a month lesson. Be sure to bring an recording device of some kind and a notebook for tune names.
As a beginner, the private, by-ear instruction is invaluable, just give them a chance to get back to you on it, it is the holiday season, after all!
You can also try going to sessions near you and talking to the fiddlers you meet to see if they teach. If they don't, they probably know people who do. That way you can also narrow it down to the fiddlers whose styles you like the best. There must be dozens of teachers in Chicago!
Make sure to train your ear,nothing is worse than an out-of-tune fiddle and it will help you enormously in the long run when you try to learn by ear.
Also,make sure you are holding the bow right,I only found out recently that I was holding it wrong for years and now I have to start again!But my old teacher never noticed this because she didn't have much experience,even if she was a brilliant player,it was only at a workshop that I found out I was holding it wrong!So it really is worth it to have a good teacher with plenty of experience in teaching.
If my memory serves me correct,Paul McNevin also has a dvd which is extremely helpful and deals woth all the technicalities.
Have fun learning fiddle!
learning any irish instrument involves a huge amount of non-irish-specific generalized learning about good musicianship on that particular instrument. and i believe strongly that in the case of fiddle, the general part---involving getting a good tone out of the instrument, bowing, intonation, etc----is challenging enough that a teacher for those areas is crucial, at least for a while. it wouldn't necessarily need to be every week, and it wouldn't necessarily need to be an irish specialist. but i have not heard one good-sounding u.s.-based irish fiddler who did not either have violin technique (usually classical) going in, or who did not get at least some help with tone and technique along the way. i have met numerous people who, at least by the standards of self-taught adult beginners, are doing reallyl well, but their tone, intonation and bowing are not what they should or could be with some help. caveat: not every itm teacher can teach this stuff. some can, some can't. the crucial thing is to get help with the fundamentals of playing the violin well. you can always get irish specialty help later. that's two cents from someone who has been there. i did not stay with fiddle due to tendonitis. but i did not know enough to take the advice i just outlined here, and if i were doing it again and the tendonitis issue wasn't there, i would get the best classical or fundamental-technique instructor i could find and stick with that for at least a couple of years.
I agree that getting help from a classical teacher with tone and intonation would help, but it's not vital.
Bowing however is a different matter. Classical bowing technique is so alien to diddley bowing technique that going to a classical teacher for this may well be counter productive and create the problem that you are trying to alleviate. Namely that of getting you into a bad habit that you will find difficult to escape from later.
I don't have any advice to help you, but i was actually wondering if you had any luck finding a teacher? I am moving to chicago in a few months and want to learn to play the fiddle precisely so I can play irish music, and I have no idea where to find a teacher.
how to get started on fiddle
how to get started on fiddle
In the spirit of the question just posted--about resolutions--I've decided to ask about my own resolution: to start trying to learn Irish tunes on the fiddle. I have played guitar for many years and just bought my first fiddle this month. The only specifically Irish classes offered in my area are for kids, and, while there are a lot of beginning fiddle classes (old time, folk) for adults, you have to get to a certain level to be allowed entrance to the Irish fiddle classes. And needless to say I am an absolute beginner (at age 41) who can only squawk through Cluck Old Hen, Angelina Baker, etc. So where do I go from here? Intro fiddle classes in the hopes of getting to Irish by the end of the year? Private lessons? (not sure I have the budget for that.) Any good books/cds? Hours a day at home with my O'Neill's tune book and iPod? Is it worth it to learn scales, arpeggios,etc. (as I did with guitar a long time ago), or should I try just jumping in with tunes? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks and Happy New Year!
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by fiery.hogue
Re: how to get started on fiddle
A teacher absolutely would be best--violin or fiddle, at this stage it doesn't matter so much. If there's no teacher, here are my suggestions:
Get used to the bow. Bow long single notes, to learn how to keep the bow at the correct angle throughout the stroke. Then try "rocking" the bow from one string to another, in mid-stroke. That's called "slurring across the strings," something that Irish fiddlers do a lot of.
Play scales and arpeggios every day, to get your intonation right. It's a combination of ear training and muscle memory. You can put on some music that tends to stay in one key, and just play scales on top of it--that will help you stay on pitch.
Or--just keep scratching out those tunes on your own, tidying up as you go. If you learned scales and arpeggios on guitar, you pretty much know what needs to be done.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by mickray
Re: how to get started on fiddle
Well, I recomend scales, etc. Lessons fromthe best violinist you can find, perhaps only one or two for financial reasons. [more the better of course]THe first months are most important so you dont develop bad habits.
My recomendation is treat your aim as two seperate issues, learning the instrument, and learning tunes. Scales arpegio, patterns etc are the building blocks of the language.
Study books dvd's etc from the best players in the world.
As far as trad goes listen to the pure drop, not just fiddlers, but concertina, whistle etc etc.
Do you accompany a trad musician. I recomend that as you are a guitarist if you possibly can. this will help you get used to the melodies, then learning to play them on the fiddle wont be too hard.
Just try to pronounce the notes and scales, jam and improvise with a friend using the major scales in minor modes, then you wont be constrained by a set form,but can freely 'sing' through your instrument with out having to play a specific tune. Intonation with your left and prononciation with your right are the first stages. There are many exercises for your right hand.
Try getting ;A new approach to violin playing. Kato Havas.
Any thing by Yehudi Menhuin.
The simplicity of violin playing series.Robert Juzek
Personally I view reading music as a completely seperate issue. I would not recomend using paper while you are learning to play. Play by ear. once you can play, then whether you choose to read is up to you.
Learning tunes should be done bar by ber from a trad teacher, once you can play your scales and shtuff.
This is my considered opinion, nothing more.
Get some good strings. Perhaps Jagar? with a Eudoxa wound top E.
Spend money on a good bow if you can.
Dont look for a 'reward' for quite a while. JUst tip away realising that wth one eye on the destination you have only one for the journey.
Bow control is the essence of fiddling, the left hand is less than half the story.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by jig
Re: how to get started on fiddle
Hi, fiery.hogue,
It would certainly help if you'd included some information about your location, either in this thread or in your personal details, just in case there was somebody local who might be of assistance.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by Floss the Tethers
Re: how to get started on fiddle
If you went to the old time/folk classes you would meet others who could help you. We used to have an old time fiddle class and it was full of people at all stages of learning, including experts.
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: how to get started on fiddle
Congratulations on this new beginning! Playing fiddle is wonderful! I would underline the importance of getting a teacher right away so that you can learn how to hold the fiddle and move the bow correctly. There is nothing wrong with entire lessons spent on this. It may not be gratifying, but if you take the time to get it right when you're just beginning, you will be saving yourself a lot of grief later.
Most here on the mustard board have already read my tale of woe about having to relearn bowing technique circa age 15, after a few years of playing. And woeful it certainly was. But it can be avoided by some patience on your part.
I'm with jig about reading music. I think it's more important to get the feel of the instrument. If it serves you later, go for it. But focus on having the fiddle feel right to you now.
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by cathrynb
Re: how to get started on fiddle
I was 38 when I started fiddle and have been playing nearly 9 years. If its Irish tunes you want then don't go for any of the classical tutors or books. One-to-one lessons were definatley best for me. I had to start with a classical teacher as its all I could find and he did me good for intonation, scales etc but you may not need that if you already play another instrument. I moved on to a general folk fiddler for lessons but that was too far. When I found my current Irish teacher it was ideal and I've been going for over 4 years. and learn totally by ear- for me its quicker and more fun but can be hard at the start- like everything. Yes- a teacher you get on with is the best IMHO.
I've dabbled with books and have found Paul McNevins Irish fiddle book with accompanying CD useful.
Hope this helps and good luck- its worth it in the end!
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by Caraaz
Re: how to get started on fiddle
Thanks to all for your comments. To MacCruiskeen: I am in the great city of Chicago. I've taken classes at the Old Town School--they're not currently offering Irish fiddle but even if they did, I think you have to get through Fiddle 3 to enroll. I've contacted the Irish Music School about private lessons but haven't heard back (the classes they seem to offer are for kids). If anyone knows of fiddle teachers in Chicago, let me know! And thanks again to all who responded.
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by fiery.hogue
Re: how to get started on fiddle
I would contact the Irish Music School again for private fiddle lessons. They are setting up their schedules for January and you could get some private instruction through them. Set up an every two week or once a month lesson. Be sure to bring an recording device of some kind and a notebook for tune names.
As a beginner, the private, by-ear instruction is invaluable, just give them a chance to get back to you on it, it is the holiday season, after all!
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by Aine Ni Scully
Re: how to get started on fiddle
You can also try going to sessions near you and talking to the fiddlers you meet to see if they teach. If they don't, they probably know people who do. That way you can also narrow it down to the fiddlers whose styles you like the best. There must be dozens of teachers in Chicago!
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by kennedy
Re: how to get started on fiddle
Hmmm... If I had known where you are located, I would have typed less.
It seems to me that you should be able to find a good fiddle teacher in Chicago, which has a bit of a history when it comes to Irish tunes.... ;>}
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by mickray
Re: how to get started on fiddle
Make sure to train your ear,nothing is worse than an out-of-tune fiddle and it will help you enormously in the long run when you try to learn by ear.
Also,make sure you are holding the bow right,I only found out recently that I was holding it wrong for years and now I have to start again!But my old teacher never noticed this because she didn't have much experience,even if she was a brilliant player,it was only at a workshop that I found out I was holding it wrong!So it really is worth it to have a good teacher with plenty of experience in teaching.
If my memory serves me correct,Paul McNevin also has a dvd which is extremely helpful and deals woth all the technicalities.
Have fun learning fiddle!
# Posted on December 27th 2007 by TradChic
Re: how to get started on fiddle
learning any irish instrument involves a huge amount of non-irish-specific generalized learning about good musicianship on that particular instrument. and i believe strongly that in the case of fiddle, the general part---involving getting a good tone out of the instrument, bowing, intonation, etc----is challenging enough that a teacher for those areas is crucial, at least for a while. it wouldn't necessarily need to be every week, and it wouldn't necessarily need to be an irish specialist. but i have not heard one good-sounding u.s.-based irish fiddler who did not either have violin technique (usually classical) going in, or who did not get at least some help with tone and technique along the way. i have met numerous people who, at least by the standards of self-taught adult beginners, are doing reallyl well, but their tone, intonation and bowing are not what they should or could be with some help. caveat: not every itm teacher can teach this stuff. some can, some can't. the crucial thing is to get help with the fundamentals of playing the violin well. you can always get irish specialty help later. that's two cents from someone who has been there. i did not stay with fiddle due to tendonitis. but i did not know enough to take the advice i just outlined here, and if i were doing it again and the tendonitis issue wasn't there, i would get the best classical or fundamental-technique instructor i could find and stick with that for at least a couple of years.
# Posted on December 28th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: how to get started on fiddle
I agree that getting help from a classical teacher with tone and intonation would help, but it's not vital.
Bowing however is a different matter. Classical bowing technique is so alien to diddley bowing technique that going to a classical teacher for this may well be counter productive and create the problem that you are trying to alleviate. Namely that of getting you into a bad habit that you will find difficult to escape from later.
# Posted on December 28th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: how to get started on fiddle
I don't have any advice to help you, but i was actually wondering if you had any luck finding a teacher? I am moving to chicago in a few months and want to learn to play the fiddle precisely so I can play irish music, and I have no idea where to find a teacher.
# Posted on May 8th 2008 by volcergirl