So I'm like, yeah, that's a concertina! Very common in Irish trad!
So he gives it to me!!! Apparently my step-mom's uncle had a pawn shop during the 1920s and they found this thing in the attic and didn't know what to do with it.
The bellows seem fine, no holes as far as I can tell. The buttons all seem to work but a few of the reeds don't sound out properly. Overall seems in pretty good shape considering the age.
I know nothing about concertinas though. Can anyone tell me what I've got here? The side plates are silver and on one side it reads: H. Crabb, Maker, 158 Liverpool Rd., London.
Anyway, I've got a new instrument to learn, so get ready for some concertina questions
Hey Screetch
It looks like an anglo concertina, all right. Become a member of Concertina.net then post your question and photo link in the history forum. http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showforum=9
Crabb concertinas have a long history. http://www.concertina.net/rd_crabb.html
Geoffrey Crabb is one member at C.net with resources to help you identify the instrument.
Very nice, and follow Laitch's recommendations. Thanks for the picture. With the serial number it will be easy to date, and it appears to be one of their better models.
There's also, in your 'general' neck of the woods, "The Button Box" ~
I understand they do decent work and are trustworthy. You could get an extimate on a general once over and basic maintenance. Stuck reeds is common so probably nothing to worry about, other than to get them cleaned and centered ~ best by someone who knows what they are doing. Every owner of an instrument should, however, know something about the basics, whether or not they are willing to do things themselves, and this is the best book going ~
"The Concertina Maintenance Manual"
by Dave Elliott, 1997
ISBN: 0-952-9857-2-1
However, check Concertina.Net, as there is a newer edition out... You should know these things anyway. If I was nearer I'd offer to do a basic clean and check-up for you for free. I've worked on a few, but I'm not near. It would be worth it just for the pleasure of handling another instrument of music and helping to see it take life again. You may need a retuning, as it could be in an older pitch and that is usually half a step sharp of the current norm. If you want to take it into sessions that would be a consideration. Don't do it yourself, and don't let just anyone do it. As mentioned above, the folks at the Button Box have lots of experience doing such things with the minimal of damage. There are others in North America, but as I've said, I've heard good things about these folks, and I've heard not so good about others I won't mention...
Have fun with your new friend. What a wonderful surprise, congratulations on your new child...
While distant, if you've a question you think I might be able to help with, just drop me an email... There is information on Concertina.Net that will help you to date it... Best of luck...
Just thought, if this has been in a damp attic for ages, please, please, don't let it dry out quickly in a centrally heated house. That I was reminded of when I said not to be afraid to open it up. Wait if it has been in such conditions previously. Let it achieve those changes slowly, preferably in the case, which will also slow down the drying out. The frames are all wood, which can move. There probably isn't a worry, just a consideration... It is that old that everything could be well settled anyway, but if the attic was damp, that could pose problems.
Do you know the rotation of removing the lugs (nuts) of a tyre? The same should be done with the screws of any end you might consider opening, do one a little, do the one across from it a little, diagonally, etc., until you have them all equally loose and eventually can remove things ~ the start to a wonderful exploration... In storing it, don't let it stand on its ends but have it in the same position you would for playing it, this also has to do with how the instrument is made and the leather flaps that serve as valves to close inactive reeds as you change the direction of air flow...
Sorry, so much information, you will find these things out as you go, and I suspect there are other tina players in Arkansas... Find them... Hopefully some concertina players near to you may find this and respond?
Wow! Wonderful story, Screetch. I'd say from the looks of it, you have gotten a great instrument. The picture shows it to be in good shape but like others have said, it would be good to have someone look at it. I hope you enjoy it and play it for many years to come. What a Merry Christmas you have had!
John Kirkpatrick plays a Crabb.
I went down to them in the late '60s' when I'd just bought my first old English, and he played it and said "The wood's good, but it does need an overhaul." There were the last of the little firms, still going then. Now of course you have people everywhere making and restoring, and charging an economic price so they don't go bust.
Good luck with it, nice one !
Careful with the suggestions you get about certain oils and creams for the bellows, some specifically make the leather go slack and along the lines of satchmo's cheeks eventually. Some might suggest mink oil ~ don't! Seek 'expert' guidance there, like the folks at the Button Box... Some things that go under the name of 'neats-foot' do the same thing, softens the leather by breaking it down... I know Pete has the best of intentions, but ~ beware...
Since the subject has been raised, use a good quality shoe polish, one that doesn't break down the leather but just maintains it without softening it...
This happens to concertina people quite often. Someone hands them a beautiful concertina and says you can have this. Usually they then wake up. Yours is the perfect experience.
If you dig in and find the serial number Geoff Crabb from Concertina.net will tell you when it was made. Henry Crabb, (Harry) was his father, though my faulty memory suggests his grandfather was an H Crabb also. This has a chance of being a very decent concertina. If all the notes work it is immediately worth at least $4000 on appearance alone on Ebay. If it turns out to play very well it will be worth much more.
If it is playable, use it for a while. This means you will find out exactly what is wrong with it and when you get it serviced, they will be able to do a better job. Looks like a 38 or 40 key. It may be in a strange key, try playing the middle key on the middle row on the push. Or the second button down from the top of the middle row on the right hand side, the first one that is shiny. That should be the key of the lower row as expressed in C/G, or Bflat/F or G/D which are the most likely keys.
Whatever you do, do not put neatsfoot oil on the bellows. This is common advice but that does not make it good advice. Mould can grow in neatsfoot oil. Ask a restorer what he recommends. US restorers often use a product called something like Fidulka.
If the Button Box is queued up there is a repairer in Kentucky called Greg Jowaisas who has a good reputation. Find him and his reputation through C.net.
Thanks guys. Given the quality, age, and condition I thought it might be a good one, but I didn't realize that it might be that good.
Well, I'm excited about this thing. I'll definately have it restored, and I'm looking forward to learning to play. It's not every day that a good old instrument gets dropped into your lap out of the blue! That's a once-in-a-lifetime thing, if you're lucky!
OK, now I really want to peak inside and find the serial number.
I'm good at taking things apart and putting them back together; I have lots of experience with it. But that experience means that I also know all about tiny springs and pins diving into the carpet at unexpected times, starting hours of fun with a flashlight.
So if I open her up to peek inside, will she spill her guts out? Or do I have a reasonable chance of getting it back together on the first try?
If you take it slowly and are organised you will be OK. Take the 6 screws out from one of the metal ends (just do one end at a time) being careful not to let the screwdriver slip, finding one that fits the screws well helps. Keep the screws in the same orientation so they can go back in the same holes. Push them through a piece of paper in the right orientation is a good easy way. This is almost always unnecessary except with really old concertinas, but is good practise.
When you have the screws out the whole endbox should be loose and should come away fro the bellows. If it is not loose it may come away with some discrete pulling. Don't insert anything into the gap and lever. With very stuck ones I slide a feeler gauger about 12thou thick in gently and work it around slowly. Every now and again you find one where someone glued the end on hoping for a good seal. This is very rare, though I have struck it twice.
If the endbox comes away in your hands easily, lay it aside and look at the bellows end. Inside is the reedpan. You can lift this out by putting your finger in the hole and gently tugging. Again, they can be tight.
Try taking a reed shoe out, just ease it out towards the edge of the reedpan. They can be very stuck sometimes, especially if there is corrosion. If you get one out easily look at the back of the reed for rust.
Take photos, they will help diagnosis etc.
To take the endbox apart, undo the thumbscrew holding the strap and the metal end should come off. Ease it up vertically to disturb the buttons as little as possible.
There is nowhere that you will find things will escape as soon as you pull the end off. The only thing that typically happens is if the button bushings are loose they might fall over and off their lever arms a little easily. Try to keep them with their own levers, they might not be interchangeable. If you are careful lifting the end off this won't happen even if they are loose. Note the serial number. It is on the reedpan and in the endbox, though sometimes just on one. There may be a batch number also, though it will be a low number compared to the serial.
When it comes to reassembly there are standard markers to guide putting it back together. The reed pan number orientates to the bellows number, and so does the reedpan number. Line up the buttons so they are all straight up and slip the metal endplate over them, put the strap thumbscrew in, put the screws back in their holes, put the reedpan back in lining up its numbers, place the endbox on again lining up the numbers (you can't see them with the metal end on but they are on the point opposite the handrest) and then do the screws up. Do the screws all up by the method 1, 4, 6,3,2,5, choose anywhere to be 1. Do them up first by hand to make sure they seat properly, watch out for gtting the strap caught if it is long enough, then do them all up until the point of slightest resistance, then all up to tight, which is not at all tight. Better to have them loose and leaking than tight and stripping. If it leaks give them all a slight tweak tighter.
While you are in there look for anything that doesn't belong, moth wings, dust, treasure maps etc, and remove them. Take note of any extra markings, repairers and owners often write or stamp inside them. A different Crabb stamp can signify a trip back to the workshop for repairs.
There is a little verdigris on the outside brass so you might find corrosion on the inside. Look and see if the reeds are rust brown. The engraving on the ends is a sign of a slightly more expensive instrument, which can't be a bad thing. The straps look thin and may be too hard, a leather softener might work. Go easy on any rusted fittings, you don't want to break anything.
Have a play first and see if you can identify any symptoms. Tell us them and someone will tell you what to look for inside. You may be able to sort them out yourself with a little help. A copy of the Dave Elliot book is a very good idea.
If you stay steady it will be OK. It is not rocket science. Hope this helps...
Well said cag, and while repeating myself ~ get the Dave Elliot book, it is well put together and is the same thing that Greg Jowaisas uses to guide his 'limited' experience...
If you talk to the button box they will tell you who in North America besides themselves they'd recommend. There are a few folks this side of the Atlantic bog, but that's too much hassle. I have vague memory of at least one other repairer I'd heard good of who lives in the SE of the U.S.A., but can't be sure if they'd still be there. I'll see if I can find any information, but really, as said previously, there are a great bunch at Concertina.Net that will gladly help you and give guidance, so, if you haven't joined, with what you now have in hand, you should... Best of luck...
P.S. ~ with the button box and Concertina.Net, those whose work has had to be cleaned up ~ they won't recommend, or you'll see comment in the discussions with that regard... If needed or desired, re-tuning is easily done, but also easily made a hams of, choose your craftsperson wisely, be informed...
Threads like these restore my sometimes shakey faith in thesession.org community. Everyone seems to be sharing Screetch's joy, and there's an incredible wealth of knowledge displayed. I don't know nuthin' about concertinas, but I read every word and was blown away by the smarts of ceolachan & cag in particular, and the rest of you in general.
Good on you all.
That's one HECK of a good find. I'll echo the others and say go to Concertina.net for the best advice. The folks there will set you straight.
As for the Button Box, I can say nothing but praises for them. They have never steered me wrong in the past, and I've done a fair amount of business with them over the years.
Well, this thing is so far off of concert pitch that my chromatic tuner doesn't know what to make of it. So I'm going to need to have it re-tuned so I can play with other musicians.
I guess I'll have a choice of keys to have it tuned to. What is the best tuning for playing Irish trad?
The most common instruments used in Irish music are C/G. G/D is used by some, very few might be a better way to put it, and the occasional person keeps one in the the other three rare keys, Bf/F, Af/Ef, and D/A. F/C is not unknown. In these last four keys you would usually be playing on your own.
To all intents and purposes unless you are a rebel by nature C/G is the only way to go. You will have people to talk to, you can copy people and it will make sense, tutors make sense etc
Putting this one into a usable state is not so straightforward as selecting a key. If it was a C/G and is out of pitch by the usual amount found when a concertina is in an old pitch or just out of tune, then setting it back to C/G 440 is unlikely to be a problem
If it is a Bflat/F then it would have to be raised by two semitones. This can be done, but can be dodgy if the reeds are already thin. There are those who say raising a reed by that much will change its tone negatively, and for many reeds that is probably right. It is especially an issue in the top octave where the reeds are already thin. Many good Bf/Fs have been raised because they were way more valuable as a C/G. Many have been turned into less good sounding but more expensive concertinas. A lot depends on the person doing the tuning.
If it is an Af/Ef it could be dropped to G/D with very little effort and impact, it is only one semitone, and there is more room to move in the thickness of the bass reeds where any problem would lie.
If it is a G/D it could be retuned as such. Neither an Af/Ef nor a G/D could be retuned as a C/G successfully.
So you see that your lovely concertina could still pack a surprise yet.
If your tuner is 400 locked, what does it say on those notes I suggested you play? It should be one of the first notes in the key set, so C, Bf, G are the most likely notes, plus or minus a little for the possibility of an old pitch, and minus a little for any out of tune issues.
You will be able to tell whether it is in one of the lower keys by playing a few notes, in G/D or Af/Ef it will sound deep and rich.
You could always ring the Button Box, they might guide you onto the right buttons over the phone and tell you what the key is.
Thanks for all the helpful info, cag. It's in Ab/Eb so I guess I'll have it tuned to G/D. You're right about the deep, rich sound and I like it that way, so maybe G/D will suit my taste best even though I'd go for C/G if I had a choice.
Actually... I think it's a better idea to leave it in the pitch it's in rather than tuning the reeds that drastically. You can still play tunes on it but they will come out in a different pitch. If you want a C/G instrument I recommend selling this one and buying a C/G instrument.
It's not very far from Ab/Eb to G/D, surely that won't hurt the reeds much? And if I leave it in Ab/Eb, I'll have a hard time playing with anyone else.
Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Hit the Christmas Jackpot
So I was over at my dad's house and we did the usual gift exchange etc. Then my dad says, "hey, let me show you something, do you know what this is?"
So he gives me this ancient leather-covered box, I open it, and this is what I find:
http://home.comcast.net/~e.holt331/concertina.html
So I'm like, yeah, that's a concertina! Very common in Irish trad!
So he gives it to me!!! Apparently my step-mom's uncle had a pawn shop during the 1920s and they found this thing in the attic and didn't know what to do with it.
The bellows seem fine, no holes as far as I can tell. The buttons all seem to work but a few of the reeds don't sound out properly. Overall seems in pretty good shape considering the age.
I know nothing about concertinas though. Can anyone tell me what I've got here? The side plates are silver and on one side it reads: H. Crabb, Maker, 158 Liverpool Rd., London.
Anyway, I've got a new instrument to learn, so get ready for some concertina questions
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Hey Screetch
It looks like an anglo concertina, all right. Become a member of Concertina.net then post your question and photo link in the history forum.
http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showforum=9
Crabb concertinas have a long history.
http://www.concertina.net/rd_crabb.html
Geoffrey Crabb is one member at C.net with resources to help you identify the instrument.
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by joesmith
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Sorry, the pawn shop was during the 1930s, not 1920s. The family ended up with lots of good stuff from the Depression, apparently.
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Lovely one, one of those in decent condition would easily set you back 4-5K.
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by kilfarboy
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Very nice, and follow Laitch's recommendations. Thanks for the picture. With the serial number it will be easy to date, and it appears to be one of their better models.
There's also, in your 'general' neck of the woods, "The Button Box" ~
http://www.buttonbox.com/
I understand they do decent work and are trustworthy. You could get an extimate on a general once over and basic maintenance. Stuck reeds is common so probably nothing to worry about, other than to get them cleaned and centered ~ best by someone who knows what they are doing. Every owner of an instrument should, however, know something about the basics, whether or not they are willing to do things themselves, and this is the best book going ~
"The Concertina Maintenance Manual"
by Dave Elliott, 1997
ISBN: 0-952-9857-2-1
However, check Concertina.Net, as there is a newer edition out... You should know these things anyway. If I was nearer I'd offer to do a basic clean and check-up for you for free. I've worked on a few, but I'm not near. It would be worth it just for the pleasure of handling another instrument of music and helping to see it take life again. You may need a retuning, as it could be in an older pitch and that is usually half a step sharp of the current norm. If you want to take it into sessions that would be a consideration. Don't do it yourself, and don't let just anyone do it. As mentioned above, the folks at the Button Box have lots of experience doing such things with the minimal of damage. There are others in North America, but as I've said, I've heard good things about these folks, and I've heard not so good about others I won't mention...
Have fun with your new friend. What a wonderful surprise, congratulations on your new child...
While distant, if you've a question you think I might be able to help with, just drop me an email... There is information on Concertina.Net that will help you to date it... Best of luck...
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by ceolachan
Don't be afraid to open it up, just be careful...
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by ceolachan
Just thought, if this has been in a damp attic for ages, please, please, don't let it dry out quickly in a centrally heated house. That I was reminded of when I said not to be afraid to open it up. Wait if it has been in such conditions previously. Let it achieve those changes slowly, preferably in the case, which will also slow down the drying out. The frames are all wood, which can move. There probably isn't a worry, just a consideration... It is that old that everything could be well settled anyway, but if the attic was damp, that could pose problems.
Best of luck...and Merry Christmas!!!
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Do you know the rotation of removing the lugs (nuts) of a tyre? The same should be done with the screws of any end you might consider opening, do one a little, do the one across from it a little, diagonally, etc., until you have them all equally loose and eventually can remove things ~ the start to a wonderful exploration... In storing it, don't let it stand on its ends but have it in the same position you would for playing it, this also has to do with how the instrument is made and the leather flaps that serve as valves to close inactive reeds as you change the direction of air flow...
Sorry, so much information, you will find these things out as you go, and I suspect there are other tina players in Arkansas... Find them... Hopefully some concertina players near to you may find this and respond?
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by ceolachan
http://www.concertina.net/
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Wow! Wonderful story, Screetch. I'd say from the looks of it, you have gotten a great instrument. The picture shows it to be in good shape but like others have said, it would be good to have someone look at it. I hope you enjoy it and play it for many years to come. What a Merry Christmas you have had!
# Posted on December 25th 2007 by John Culhane
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
John Kirkpatrick plays a Crabb.
I went down to them in the late '60s' when I'd just bought my first old English, and he played it and said "The wood's good, but it does need an overhaul." There were the last of the little firms, still going then. Now of course you have people everywhere making and restoring, and charging an economic price so they don't go bust.
Good luck with it, nice one !
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Your link doesn't seem to open to show the instrument on my old iMac.
And, if the bellows are a little stiff, use a little neat's foot oil on them.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
congrats!!!!
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Careful with the suggestions you get about certain oils and creams for the bellows, some specifically make the leather go slack and along the lines of satchmo's cheeks eventually. Some might suggest mink oil ~ don't! Seek 'expert' guidance there, like the folks at the Button Box... Some things that go under the name of 'neats-foot' do the same thing, softens the leather by breaking it down... I know Pete has the best of intentions, but ~ beware...
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Since the subject has been raised, use a good quality shoe polish, one that doesn't break down the leather but just maintains it without softening it...
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
This happens to concertina people quite often. Someone hands them a beautiful concertina and says you can have this. Usually they then wake up. Yours is the perfect experience.
If you dig in and find the serial number Geoff Crabb from Concertina.net will tell you when it was made. Henry Crabb, (Harry) was his father, though my faulty memory suggests his grandfather was an H Crabb also. This has a chance of being a very decent concertina. If all the notes work it is immediately worth at least $4000 on appearance alone on Ebay. If it turns out to play very well it will be worth much more.
If it is playable, use it for a while. This means you will find out exactly what is wrong with it and when you get it serviced, they will be able to do a better job. Looks like a 38 or 40 key. It may be in a strange key, try playing the middle key on the middle row on the push. Or the second button down from the top of the middle row on the right hand side, the first one that is shiny. That should be the key of the lower row as expressed in C/G, or Bflat/F or G/D which are the most likely keys.
Whatever you do, do not put neatsfoot oil on the bellows. This is common advice but that does not make it good advice. Mould can grow in neatsfoot oil. Ask a restorer what he recommends. US restorers often use a product called something like Fidulka.
If the Button Box is queued up there is a repairer in Kentucky called Greg Jowaisas who has a good reputation. Find him and his reputation through C.net.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by cag
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Thanks guys. Given the quality, age, and condition I thought it might be a good one, but I didn't realize that it might be that good.
Well, I'm excited about this thing. I'll definately have it restored, and I'm looking forward to learning to play. It's not every day that a good old instrument gets dropped into your lap out of the blue! That's a once-in-a-lifetime thing, if you're lucky!
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
OK, now I really want to peak inside and find the serial number.
I'm good at taking things apart and putting them back together; I have lots of experience with it. But that experience means that I also know all about tiny springs and pins diving into the carpet at unexpected times, starting hours of fun with a flashlight.
So if I open her up to peek inside, will she spill her guts out? Or do I have a reasonable chance of getting it back together on the first try?
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
If you take it slowly and are organised you will be OK. Take the 6 screws out from one of the metal ends (just do one end at a time) being careful not to let the screwdriver slip, finding one that fits the screws well helps. Keep the screws in the same orientation so they can go back in the same holes. Push them through a piece of paper in the right orientation is a good easy way. This is almost always unnecessary except with really old concertinas, but is good practise.
When you have the screws out the whole endbox should be loose and should come away fro the bellows. If it is not loose it may come away with some discrete pulling. Don't insert anything into the gap and lever. With very stuck ones I slide a feeler gauger about 12thou thick in gently and work it around slowly. Every now and again you find one where someone glued the end on hoping for a good seal. This is very rare, though I have struck it twice.
If the endbox comes away in your hands easily, lay it aside and look at the bellows end. Inside is the reedpan. You can lift this out by putting your finger in the hole and gently tugging. Again, they can be tight.
Try taking a reed shoe out, just ease it out towards the edge of the reedpan. They can be very stuck sometimes, especially if there is corrosion. If you get one out easily look at the back of the reed for rust.
Take photos, they will help diagnosis etc.
To take the endbox apart, undo the thumbscrew holding the strap and the metal end should come off. Ease it up vertically to disturb the buttons as little as possible.
There is nowhere that you will find things will escape as soon as you pull the end off. The only thing that typically happens is if the button bushings are loose they might fall over and off their lever arms a little easily. Try to keep them with their own levers, they might not be interchangeable. If you are careful lifting the end off this won't happen even if they are loose. Note the serial number. It is on the reedpan and in the endbox, though sometimes just on one. There may be a batch number also, though it will be a low number compared to the serial.
When it comes to reassembly there are standard markers to guide putting it back together. The reed pan number orientates to the bellows number, and so does the reedpan number. Line up the buttons so they are all straight up and slip the metal endplate over them, put the strap thumbscrew in, put the screws back in their holes, put the reedpan back in lining up its numbers, place the endbox on again lining up the numbers (you can't see them with the metal end on but they are on the point opposite the handrest) and then do the screws up. Do the screws all up by the method 1, 4, 6,3,2,5, choose anywhere to be 1. Do them up first by hand to make sure they seat properly, watch out for gtting the strap caught if it is long enough, then do them all up until the point of slightest resistance, then all up to tight, which is not at all tight. Better to have them loose and leaking than tight and stripping. If it leaks give them all a slight tweak tighter.
While you are in there look for anything that doesn't belong, moth wings, dust, treasure maps etc, and remove them. Take note of any extra markings, repairers and owners often write or stamp inside them. A different Crabb stamp can signify a trip back to the workshop for repairs.
There is a little verdigris on the outside brass so you might find corrosion on the inside. Look and see if the reeds are rust brown. The engraving on the ends is a sign of a slightly more expensive instrument, which can't be a bad thing. The straps look thin and may be too hard, a leather softener might work. Go easy on any rusted fittings, you don't want to break anything.
Have a play first and see if you can identify any symptoms. Tell us them and someone will tell you what to look for inside. You may be able to sort them out yourself with a little help. A copy of the Dave Elliot book is a very good idea.
If you stay steady it will be OK. It is not rocket science. Hope this helps...
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by cag
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Well said cag, and while repeating myself ~ get the Dave Elliot book, it is well put together and is the same thing that Greg Jowaisas uses to guide his 'limited' experience...
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
If you talk to the button box they will tell you who in North America besides themselves they'd recommend. There are a few folks this side of the Atlantic bog, but that's too much hassle. I have vague memory of at least one other repairer I'd heard good of who lives in the SE of the U.S.A., but can't be sure if they'd still be there. I'll see if I can find any information, but really, as said previously, there are a great bunch at Concertina.Net that will gladly help you and give guidance, so, if you haven't joined, with what you now have in hand, you should... Best of luck...
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
P.S. ~ with the button box and Concertina.Net, those whose work has had to be cleaned up ~ they won't recommend, or you'll see comment in the discussions with that regard... If needed or desired, re-tuning is easily done, but also easily made a hams of, choose your craftsperson wisely, be informed...
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Check your post!!!
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Threads like these restore my sometimes shakey faith in thesession.org community. Everyone seems to be sharing Screetch's joy, and there's an incredible wealth of knowledge displayed. I don't know nuthin' about concertinas, but I read every word and was blown away by the smarts of ceolachan & cag in particular, and the rest of you in general.
Good on you all.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by cuchulain54
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
That's one HECK of a good find. I'll echo the others and say go to Concertina.net for the best advice. The folks there will set you straight.
As for the Button Box, I can say nothing but praises for them. They have never steered me wrong in the past, and I've done a fair amount of business with them over the years.
Congrats! I can only dream of a find that good.
# Posted on December 26th 2007 by Ashkettle
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Well, this thing is so far off of concert pitch that my chromatic tuner doesn't know what to make of it. So I'm going to need to have it re-tuned so I can play with other musicians.
I guess I'll have a choice of keys to have it tuned to. What is the best tuning for playing Irish trad?
# Posted on December 28th 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
This is not a simple question.
The most common instruments used in Irish music are C/G. G/D is used by some, very few might be a better way to put it, and the occasional person keeps one in the the other three rare keys, Bf/F, Af/Ef, and D/A. F/C is not unknown. In these last four keys you would usually be playing on your own.
To all intents and purposes unless you are a rebel by nature C/G is the only way to go. You will have people to talk to, you can copy people and it will make sense, tutors make sense etc
Putting this one into a usable state is not so straightforward as selecting a key. If it was a C/G and is out of pitch by the usual amount found when a concertina is in an old pitch or just out of tune, then setting it back to C/G 440 is unlikely to be a problem
If it is a Bflat/F then it would have to be raised by two semitones. This can be done, but can be dodgy if the reeds are already thin. There are those who say raising a reed by that much will change its tone negatively, and for many reeds that is probably right. It is especially an issue in the top octave where the reeds are already thin. Many good Bf/Fs have been raised because they were way more valuable as a C/G. Many have been turned into less good sounding but more expensive concertinas. A lot depends on the person doing the tuning.
If it is an Af/Ef it could be dropped to G/D with very little effort and impact, it is only one semitone, and there is more room to move in the thickness of the bass reeds where any problem would lie.
If it is a G/D it could be retuned as such. Neither an Af/Ef nor a G/D could be retuned as a C/G successfully.
So you see that your lovely concertina could still pack a surprise yet.
If your tuner is 400 locked, what does it say on those notes I suggested you play? It should be one of the first notes in the key set, so C, Bf, G are the most likely notes, plus or minus a little for the possibility of an old pitch, and minus a little for any out of tune issues.
You will be able to tell whether it is in one of the lower keys by playing a few notes, in G/D or Af/Ef it will sound deep and rich.
You could always ring the Button Box, they might guide you onto the right buttons over the phone and tell you what the key is.
I'm off to a festival for a few days...
# Posted on December 28th 2007 by cag
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Thanks for all the helpful info, cag. It's in Ab/Eb so I guess I'll have it tuned to G/D. You're right about the deep, rich sound and I like it that way, so maybe G/D will suit my taste best even though I'd go for C/G if I had a choice.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Actually... I think it's a better idea to leave it in the pitch it's in rather than tuning the reeds that drastically. You can still play tunes on it but they will come out in a different pitch. If you want a C/G instrument I recommend selling this one and buying a C/G instrument.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
It's not very far from Ab/Eb to G/D, surely that won't hurt the reeds much? And if I leave it in Ab/Eb, I'll have a hard time playing with anyone else.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Screetch
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
I would run this idea by a few more experts before taking action. Try starting a thread about it at concertina.net
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Hit the Christmas Jackpot
Thanks, you're right, I should be asking this over on concertina.net.
# Posted on December 31st 2007 by Screetch