I tried one a year or so ago and sent it back. It's really cool once you music is IN it, but GETTING the music into it is a royal pain in the butt!!! If you only download and use their music, it would be great, but I wanted to use Finale files and PDFs. Both involved a double conversion prior to loading. If you are scanning music, it's even worse. Bottom line - great idea whose time has not yet arrived (IMHO).
I could see its usefulness to classical musicians, or musicians who rely on printed music for performances, but It wouldn't relate to traditional music or traditional Irish music at all. You might get more interest at:
That has all the same problems as e-books. Paper is still the best technology for printed material.
Besides, it's not like it's a big problem to carry around sheets of music on paper if you need the dots...I'm not sure what kind of problem this gadget is supposed to address.
Thinking does not need to address a problem. Simply an alternative approach is valid in itself. Whether that is adopted or not does not diminish the validity of the thinking.
Me, im all for low tech, you know, but fair play to those who think out outside the 'box'.
im all for alternative approaches, but if the alternative is more difficult than the original, yet yields no greater result, I don't understand its purpose.
It is 'for sale' software.
You buy the pad, maybe a stand, software probably comes with, & you buy the tunes . . .
You buy the tunes ! ! ! ???
How much of that music is traditional?
It certainly is not ABC format.
ABC is (BTW) free!
I will consider it though. Have the sales rep send me a couple of them with all of O"Neill's loaded up. I will try it out & write a grand review.
Your interest in the product suggests you place a higher
priority on consumer gadgetry (which eventually gets tossed)
than on the aural tradition of music.
I was just surprised Danny considers ITM players 'normal' . . .
KML -- I often use the dots as a starting point when I learn tunes. Tune books are portable and simple (no need for power, etc) but I find flipping through tune books to be quite tedious. Some of my tunebooks don't have lay flat bindings, so I need to set a coffee cup down, yadda yadda yadda. And sitting in front of my computer just somehow does not stir my musical inspiration. So I am intrigued by the idea of having the computer's quick access to tunes, but in the form factor of a book. But I don't know if it would actually work out to be something useful...that's why I am curious if anyone else has used one...
Well, CF, look at it this way. I see no harm in a relative new player relying on the dots, even out at sessions, but if they continue to rely on sheet music after a few years, as does someone I know, even when they clearly recognise the tune, I begin to wonder,
"is it really *them* , That Person, who is playing the tune, or carrying the tune around with them (even when not playing it) or are they just robotically using eye to brain to hand to ear coordination to produce a string of notes?"
Because unless you carry the tunes with you - unless you make them your own (and it really IS a case of making them your own as, I imagine, with the small amount of neuroscience I have gleaned over the years, the tunes will fire off your neurons in specific circuits) - unless you "own" your own repertoire you will never have anything to layer on top of them the little specific variations which give them your own hallmark patterns.
This thing seems to me, rather than a means of weaning you off the addiction of sheet music, it is a way to get you more addicted, dependent or reliant, on it.
KML - I think I understand where you are coming from now. I don't use sheet music at sessions, and I wouldn't use this device at session either. My "addiction" to sheet music is strictly during personal learning and practicing of tunes. This device would further entrench that addiction, yes, but I think it's a pretty harmless addiction.
There are numerous instances of trad players learning tunes from written sources. Some times I wonder what makes people so anti dots? Up untill the advent of recording, and ABC, the only way to pass tunes on without face to face contact was the dots. They are simply a usefull tool, nothing more, What is the problem? Fair enough,trying to learn a style of music from the dots alone is fraught with difficulty, and lokely not possible. But as an aid in communication and preservation they are invaluable. There are instances of tunes re entering the tradition from O'Neils for example, the only record may be visual. Would people rather the tunes were lost than preserved on paper?
Jig wrote 'Up until the advent of recording, and ABC, the only way to pass tunes on without face to face contact was the dots.'
This isn't just laughably inaccurate but simply not true! There are many well documented cases of a musician hearing a tune during a night out, attempting to memorise it on the way home and humming, whistling or lilting the melody to someone else once back at home. This explains, in part, why there are melodic local and regional differences in tunes bearing the same title even when the difference between the place where the tune was heard and the learner's home location is relatively small.
I doubt whether many traditional musicians were familiar with 'the dots' before the onset of mass secondary education in Ireland in the 1950s (and there's strong evidence that few so educated were taught musical notation).
So, jig, please do tell us how you're able to reach this ridiculous conclusion?
If there is no face to face contact in a session perhaps your head is not where it should be. If you get my meaning.
Yes crazy fingers, people like Paddy Clancy.
I know there are serious musicians who dont read, but if you wish to read music you can simply teach yourself. Trad being a simple music to read comprised of only one line.
Anyone used one of these?
Anyone used one of these?
http://www.freehandsystems.com
Could be a great aid to sessions...no, just kidding...but it could be an interesting learning aid.
# Posted on December 22nd 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Anyone used one of these?
I tried one a year or so ago and sent it back. It's really cool once you music is IN it, but GETTING the music into it is a royal pain in the butt!!! If you only download and use their music, it would be great, but I wanted to use Finale files and PDFs. Both involved a double conversion prior to loading. If you are scanning music, it's even worse. Bottom line - great idea whose time has not yet arrived (IMHO).
Pat
# Posted on December 22nd 2007 by plunk111
Re: Anyone used one of these?
For $900, I think that I would opt for a few sheets of paper!
# Posted on December 22nd 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Anyone used one of these?
I could see its usefulness to classical musicians, or musicians who rely on printed music for performances, but It wouldn't relate to traditional music or traditional Irish music at all. You might get more interest at:
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/7078/msc2.html
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by Sean MacOda Criobhan
Re: Anyone used one of these?
That has all the same problems as e-books. Paper is still the best technology for printed material.
Besides, it's not like it's a big problem to carry around sheets of music on paper if you need the dots...I'm not sure what kind of problem this gadget is supposed to address.
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by Screetch
Re: Anyone used one of these?
Thinking does not need to address a problem. Simply an alternative approach is valid in itself. Whether that is adopted or not does not diminish the validity of the thinking.
Me, im all for low tech, you know, but fair play to those who think out outside the 'box'.
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by jig
Re: Anyone used one of these?
im all for alternative approaches, but if the alternative is more difficult than the original, yet yields no greater result, I don't understand its purpose.
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Anyone used one of these?
It is 'for sale' software.
You buy the pad, maybe a stand, software probably comes with, & you buy the tunes . . .
You buy the tunes ! ! ! ???
How much of that music is traditional?
It certainly is not ABC format.
ABC is (BTW) free!
I will consider it though. Have the sales rep send me a couple of them with all of O"Neill's loaded up. I will try it out & write a grand review.
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Anyone used one of these?
Exactly the kind of crap we don't need if we want to engage in environmentally sound session behaviour.
Why don't you just learn the tunes like a normal musician?
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Anyone used one of these?
KML -- I assume your question is for me. I learn tunes by playing them over and over until I know them. What am I doing wrong?
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Anyone used one of these?
Your interest in the product suggests you place a higher
priority on consumer gadgetry (which eventually gets tossed)
than on the aural tradition of music.
I was just surprised Danny considers ITM players 'normal' . . .
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Anyone used one of these?
Ha ha muse.
Ok, CF, you do the same as the rest of us, glad to hear it - so why bother even considering one of these contraptions?
# Posted on December 23rd 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Anyone used one of these?
You could probably get good results by producing .gif's & loading the images into a digital photo frame. ;)
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Anyone used one of these?
KML -- I often use the dots as a starting point when I learn tunes. Tune books are portable and simple (no need for power, etc) but I find flipping through tune books to be quite tedious. Some of my tunebooks don't have lay flat bindings, so I need to set a coffee cup down, yadda yadda yadda. And sitting in front of my computer just somehow does not stir my musical inspiration. So I am intrigued by the idea of having the computer's quick access to tunes, but in the form factor of a book. But I don't know if it would actually work out to be something useful...that's why I am curious if anyone else has used one...
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Anyone used one of these?
I think that folks have been using them in schools, band and orchestra and the like. That's how I've seen it advertised.
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by wyogal
Re: Anyone used one of these?
Well, CF, look at it this way. I see no harm in a relative new player relying on the dots, even out at sessions, but if they continue to rely on sheet music after a few years, as does someone I know, even when they clearly recognise the tune, I begin to wonder,
"is it really *them* , That Person, who is playing the tune, or carrying the tune around with them (even when not playing it) or are they just robotically using eye to brain to hand to ear coordination to produce a string of notes?"
Because unless you carry the tunes with you - unless you make them your own (and it really IS a case of making them your own as, I imagine, with the small amount of neuroscience I have gleaned over the years, the tunes will fire off your neurons in specific circuits) - unless you "own" your own repertoire you will never have anything to layer on top of them the little specific variations which give them your own hallmark patterns.
This thing seems to me, rather than a means of weaning you off the addiction of sheet music, it is a way to get you more addicted, dependent or reliant, on it.
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Anyone used one of these?
KML - I think I understand where you are coming from now. I don't use sheet music at sessions, and I wouldn't use this device at session either. My "addiction" to sheet music is strictly during personal learning and practicing of tunes. This device would further entrench that addiction, yes, but I think it's a pretty harmless addiction.
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Anyone used one of these?
There are numerous instances of trad players learning tunes from written sources. Some times I wonder what makes people so anti dots? Up untill the advent of recording, and ABC, the only way to pass tunes on without face to face contact was the dots. They are simply a usefull tool, nothing more, What is the problem? Fair enough,trying to learn a style of music from the dots alone is fraught with difficulty, and lokely not possible. But as an aid in communication and preservation they are invaluable. There are instances of tunes re entering the tradition from O'Neils for example, the only record may be visual. Would people rather the tunes were lost than preserved on paper?
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Anyone used one of these?
sorry, thats; ' Likely' not lokely!
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Anyone used one of these?
Jig wrote 'Up until the advent of recording, and ABC, the only way to pass tunes on without face to face contact was the dots.'
This isn't just laughably inaccurate but simply not true! There are many well documented cases of a musician hearing a tune during a night out, attempting to memorise it on the way home and humming, whistling or lilting the melody to someone else once back at home. This explains, in part, why there are melodic local and regional differences in tunes bearing the same title even when the difference between the place where the tune was heard and the learner's home location is relatively small.
I doubt whether many traditional musicians were familiar with 'the dots' before the onset of mass secondary education in Ireland in the 1950s (and there's strong evidence that few so educated were taught musical notation).
So, jig, please do tell us how you're able to reach this ridiculous conclusion?
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Anyone used one of these?
The existence and enduring popularity of collections like O'Neill's implies that at least some musicians like having the dots...
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Anyone used one of these?
If there is no face to face contact in a session perhaps your head is not where it should be. If you get my meaning.
Yes crazy fingers, people like Paddy Clancy.
I know there are serious musicians who dont read, but if you wish to read music you can simply teach yourself. Trad being a simple music to read comprised of only one line.
# Posted on December 24th 2007 by jig