Not that I would ever admit to it...but there is something I have no clue about and may be getting involved in. Purchase of a wood flute.
Our mid twenties silver flute player daughter (with the personal economy typical of most musicians) has seen the light and is converting to ITM. My tutor is a fantastic flautist and I would like him to help her in the conversion.
But I probably will end up buying, or participating in the flute purchase.
1. What are the names of reputable makers including those who may be priced reasonably?
2. What characterisitics are desirable?
3. Is it better to buy new or used?
4. If buying a used wood flute, what are conditions to watch for?
Good entry point is Casey Burn's folk flute. A proper flute made of proper wood, though he has just switched from mopane to boxwood. No keys, no tuning slide but otherwise what you need. Nothing else properly made in proper wood comes close to the price/performance on offer here.
If your daughter is planning on playing in a session where most people are close to A=440Hz then this will be ok. If she is planning on playing in a wider range of keys then she may need a six or 8 key flute. She might also need a tuning slide (keyed flutes almost always have one anyway where some keyless come without.). They start to get expensive... And buying new may involve an uncomfortable wait.
Much more sensible advice can be found on a forum search, or a visit to Chiff and Fipple's flute forums - where a search will also find a huge amount of advice on offer.
My personal recommendation is to send her to some flute-heavy festivals and try to get her to try out as many flutes as she can persuade people to let her try. And buy a Casey Burn's folk flute in the meantime. By the time she really wants/needs something better she should have a good idea herself of what she wants. And there are a lot of more expensive flutes out there that are by no means better than the folk flute.
Don't buy anything made in Pakistan and be very wary of old German made flutes - some are good but you do need to know very carefully what you're buying. Buy a second hand flute from a player, a maker or Doc Jones Irish Flute Store (google it...) Be wary of ebay - there are bargains to be had but it is dangerous. The Chiff and Fipple forums also seem to have quite a few flutes on offer for sale by members at the moment.
Wow, zip'ster. Those are some really broad questions. I guess price would be the first thing to consider. Among the mid-priced flutes, a lot of folks here have recommended Casey Burns, and a bunch of folks also recommend delrin models for a couple hundred dollars U.S..
Among the highest of the high end, there are many.... Patrick Olwell, Michael Grinter, Bryan Byrne, Sam Murray, Hammy Hamilton, Skip Healy, Terry McGee, and oodles and oodles more. But you'll pay upwards of US$1,500+ for a keyless flute from these makers. It's up to personal taste, ability, and goals whether or not it is worth it to pay the 3X to 5X more for flutes from these makers, vs. the mid-priced makers.
Once you get into the couple-hundred-dollars range, you're likely to get a fine instrument, no matter what you decide.
Regarding new vs. used -- unless you get really lucky and stumble upon someone who is unloading a flute for some reason, I haven't observed prices for used flutes being greatly reduced vs. new.
If buying used, watch out for cracks, repairs, etc. A reputable instrument maker can perform a repair that is just as good as new, but still something to watch out for.
The obvious landmines to avoid are the really cheap flutes that you see on eBay. Simple rule to live life by: "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is."
Prolly the best advice anyone can give is to ferret thru the discussions here, because this question has been posted and responded to loads of times in the past. You'll see all of the same comments that I've just made, and many many more.
Personally, I own a Bryan Byrne keyless flute, and will soon own a 6-key from Bryan, as well. The fact that I went back to Bryan for a keyed flute, after playing one of his keyless flutes for several years, is my statement of how highly I regard his flutes.
Cheers, and best of luck to you and your daughter!!!
A used flute is good because you don't have to wait. Some makers have long waiting lists.
If your daughter is already a musician, she's probably going to want a tuning slide. Still, the advice to buy the Folk Flute and then do research on what is really wanted is good. There's nothing lesser about the Folk Flute. You simply can't retrofit keys and there's no tuning slide. That's the only difference between it and a better one.
And hanging out at Chiff and Fipple you'll see a constant list of used flutes. I think some of those guys do nothing else but scour the web for flutes, buy them and resell them on C&F. One guy in particular, Jon C, knows how to find the good old ones and restore them. You might check with him for advice before you buy an eBay flute, especially an antique. He'll know.
Assuming you're in the US, you'll save money by avoiding the international exchange-rate quagmire. There's a good number of fine US flutemakers, including Olwell, Byrne, Noy, Burns, Cameron, both Gallaghers, Copley, Healy, Ward, Forbes, etc. Prices for flutes and waiting times will vary.
Copley & Boegli flutes are very good, reasonably priced, and don't involve a long wait.
Assuming finances allow it, I'd get a wooden keyless flute with a tuning slide. Assuming it's a good flute (any of the above makers), it will give years and years of enjoyment.
Keys are very handy indeed. I don't think I could get used to an unkeyed flute. I like to have easy access to all the notes that might be needed, and it's possible that someone used to the Boehm flute might feel the same. And a much cheaper, though still excellent, alternative to the very expensive keyed wooden flutes is polymer flutes; for instance, Michael Cronnolly (M&E) polymer flutes: http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/index.htm
He makes old style small-holed, small-bore flutes with keys. I play a similarly structured Hammy Hamilton small bore keyed flute, which is superb, but they're pretty pricey now and there's a very long waiting list.
It's also handy to have a five piece flute, where the there is a joint between the finger holes of the left and right hands, allowing you to have the finger holes out of alignment, thereby making it easier to play the flute without the fingers being over-stretched. It’s a common complaint of Boehm flute players, and those with smallish hands, that simple system flutes involve a noticeable stretch of the fingers. So a one-piece body might be something to avoid in a flute.
The old two-piece Folk Flute had ergonomic finger hole placement so no rotation of parts was needed for comfort. The new one is three pieces now so you can rotate the finger holes, but I've never found that necessary on any flute I've played. I thought it would help but if I can't reach, the piper's grip helps much better.
zippydw,
sbhikes mentions Jon C. , a regular poster on the Chiff and Fipple Flute Forum as a restorer of wooden flutes. Thing is, he makes good wooden flutes in the mid-price range. He offers options regarding rings, slides, bore, timbre, etc, so you can save money or dress it up.
I play a keyless Rudall-Carte derived flute made by Jon and I'm pleased as punch with it.
I wouldn't sweat the keys if your daughter is planning to play Irish Music. There are relatively few tunes that can't be played on a keyless flute, and if she still has a Boehm flute, then she's got one for those tunes in odd keys.
I'll second Casey Burns folk flutes as a good value. For a bit more I recommend a Jon C. (Cochran Flutes) in Delrin, but better and slightly more in blackwood.
i wouldnt recommend a folk flute for an experienced musician.
copley makes a good flute. if she wants to wait a year or two, olwell's are legendary. email me through the site and i can give you his phone number.
ive never played a flute that jon c. made, but i play a flute he restored and his workmanship is top notch. i can give you jon's email, too, if you want it.
Wood Flutes. Advice request
Wood Flutes. Advice request
Not that I would ever admit to it...but there is something I have no clue about and may be getting involved in. Purchase of a wood flute.
Our mid twenties silver flute player daughter (with the personal economy typical of most musicians) has seen the light and is converting to ITM. My tutor is a fantastic flautist and I would like him to help her in the conversion.
But I probably will end up buying, or participating in the flute purchase.
1. What are the names of reputable makers including those who may be priced reasonably?
2. What characterisitics are desirable?
3. Is it better to buy new or used?
4. If buying a used wood flute, what are conditions to watch for?
5. What are other 'land mines' to avoid?
Advice greatly appreciated
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Good entry point is Casey Burn's folk flute. A proper flute made of proper wood, though he has just switched from mopane to boxwood. No keys, no tuning slide but otherwise what you need. Nothing else properly made in proper wood comes close to the price/performance on offer here.
If your daughter is planning on playing in a session where most people are close to A=440Hz then this will be ok. If she is planning on playing in a wider range of keys then she may need a six or 8 key flute. She might also need a tuning slide (keyed flutes almost always have one anyway where some keyless come without.). They start to get expensive... And buying new may involve an uncomfortable wait.
Much more sensible advice can be found on a forum search, or a visit to Chiff and Fipple's flute forums - where a search will also find a huge amount of advice on offer.
My personal recommendation is to send her to some flute-heavy festivals and try to get her to try out as many flutes as she can persuade people to let her try. And buy a Casey Burn's folk flute in the meantime. By the time she really wants/needs something better she should have a good idea herself of what she wants. And there are a lot of more expensive flutes out there that are by no means better than the folk flute.
Don't buy anything made in Pakistan and be very wary of old German made flutes - some are good but you do need to know very carefully what you're buying. Buy a second hand flute from a player, a maker or Doc Jones Irish Flute Store (google it...) Be wary of ebay - there are bargains to be had but it is dangerous. The Chiff and Fipple forums also seem to have quite a few flutes on offer for sale by members at the moment.
'bye,
Chris.
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by Crackpot
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Wow, zip'ster. Those are some really broad questions. I guess price would be the first thing to consider. Among the mid-priced flutes, a lot of folks here have recommended Casey Burns, and a bunch of folks also recommend delrin models for a couple hundred dollars U.S..
Among the highest of the high end, there are many.... Patrick Olwell, Michael Grinter, Bryan Byrne, Sam Murray, Hammy Hamilton, Skip Healy, Terry McGee, and oodles and oodles more. But you'll pay upwards of US$1,500+ for a keyless flute from these makers. It's up to personal taste, ability, and goals whether or not it is worth it to pay the 3X to 5X more for flutes from these makers, vs. the mid-priced makers.
Once you get into the couple-hundred-dollars range, you're likely to get a fine instrument, no matter what you decide.
Regarding new vs. used -- unless you get really lucky and stumble upon someone who is unloading a flute for some reason, I haven't observed prices for used flutes being greatly reduced vs. new.
If buying used, watch out for cracks, repairs, etc. A reputable instrument maker can perform a repair that is just as good as new, but still something to watch out for.
The obvious landmines to avoid are the really cheap flutes that you see on eBay. Simple rule to live life by: "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is."
Prolly the best advice anyone can give is to ferret thru the discussions here, because this question has been posted and responded to loads of times in the past. You'll see all of the same comments that I've just made, and many many more.
Personally, I own a Bryan Byrne keyless flute, and will soon own a 6-key from Bryan, as well. The fact that I went back to Bryan for a keyed flute, after playing one of his keyless flutes for several years, is my statement of how highly I regard his flutes.
Cheers, and best of luck to you and your daughter!!!
Brian
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by browndog
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Stay away from Pakistani flutes.
A used flute is good because you don't have to wait. Some makers have long waiting lists.
If your daughter is already a musician, she's probably going to want a tuning slide. Still, the advice to buy the Folk Flute and then do research on what is really wanted is good. There's nothing lesser about the Folk Flute. You simply can't retrofit keys and there's no tuning slide. That's the only difference between it and a better one.
And hanging out at Chiff and Fipple you'll see a constant list of used flutes. I think some of those guys do nothing else but scour the web for flutes, buy them and resell them on C&F. One guy in particular, Jon C, knows how to find the good old ones and restore them. You might check with him for advice before you buy an eBay flute, especially an antique. He'll know.
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
thanks
the daughter is an experienced silver flute player who has been out of music for a few years-that liitle nuisance of having to make a living!
Daily battle-weariness brings people back to their basic interests.
Thanks for the information and advice
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Check out the Irishflutestore.com.
Lots of new and old flutes available and sound advice.
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by Dave_
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Assuming you're in the US, you'll save money by avoiding the international exchange-rate quagmire. There's a good number of fine US flutemakers, including Olwell, Byrne, Noy, Burns, Cameron, both Gallaghers, Copley, Healy, Ward, Forbes, etc. Prices for flutes and waiting times will vary.
Copley & Boegli flutes are very good, reasonably priced, and don't involve a long wait.
http://www.celticlands.com/page3.html
Also available here:
http://www.irishflutestore.com/newsite/
Assuming finances allow it, I'd get a wooden keyless flute with a tuning slide. Assuming it's a good flute (any of the above makers), it will give years and years of enjoyment.
And here's a fine general resource: http://www.firescribble.net/flute/
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by Tintin
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Keys are very handy indeed. I don't think I could get used to an unkeyed flute. I like to have easy access to all the notes that might be needed, and it's possible that someone used to the Boehm flute might feel the same. And a much cheaper, though still excellent, alternative to the very expensive keyed wooden flutes is polymer flutes; for instance, Michael Cronnolly (M&E) polymer flutes:
http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/index.htm
He makes old style small-holed, small-bore flutes with keys. I play a similarly structured Hammy Hamilton small bore keyed flute, which is superb, but they're pretty pricey now and there's a very long waiting list.
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by neddiescotus
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
It's also handy to have a five piece flute, where the there is a joint between the finger holes of the left and right hands, allowing you to have the finger holes out of alignment, thereby making it easier to play the flute without the fingers being over-stretched. It’s a common complaint of Boehm flute players, and those with smallish hands, that simple system flutes involve a noticeable stretch of the fingers. So a one-piece body might be something to avoid in a flute.
# Posted on December 17th 2007 by neddiescotus
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
The old two-piece Folk Flute had ergonomic finger hole placement so no rotation of parts was needed for comfort. The new one is three pieces now so you can rotate the finger holes, but I've never found that necessary on any flute I've played. I thought it would help but if I can't reach, the piper's grip helps much better.
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Neddie - M&E only makes large hole Rudall derived flutes these days. I have one, and really like it - takes more air than the older style he made.
Eric
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
"M&E only makes large hole Rudall derived flutes these days."
Wow, uncool! I prefer small holed flutes, sweeter tone.
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by neddiescotus
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Michael may well make the older style flutes on request, but my M&E has finger holes that measure very similar to a Seery (pratten based).
Having a cold right now, I can see serious value in a smaller hole flute...I'm so dizzy my head is spinning.
Eric
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by Jayhawk
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
zippydw,
sbhikes mentions Jon C. , a regular poster on the Chiff and Fipple Flute Forum as a restorer of wooden flutes. Thing is, he makes good wooden flutes in the mid-price range. He offers options regarding rings, slides, bore, timbre, etc, so you can save money or dress it up.
I play a keyless Rudall-Carte derived flute made by Jon and I'm pleased as punch with it.
I wouldn't sweat the keys if your daughter is planning to play Irish Music. There are relatively few tunes that can't be played on a keyless flute, and if she still has a Boehm flute, then she's got one for those tunes in odd keys.
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by MikeDucayen
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
I'll second Casey Burns folk flutes as a good value. For a bit more I recommend a Jon C. (Cochran Flutes) in Delrin, but better and slightly more in blackwood.
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by kkrell
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
Alot of great advice.
Thanks very much
# Posted on December 19th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Wood Flutes. Advice request
i wouldnt recommend a folk flute for an experienced musician.
copley makes a good flute. if she wants to wait a year or two, olwell's are legendary. email me through the site and i can give you his phone number.
ive never played a flute that jon c. made, but i play a flute he restored and his workmanship is top notch. i can give you jon's email, too, if you want it.
# Posted on December 19th 2007 by daiv