What has been the highlight of this year's learning for you on the ould mustard board?- either by flash of recognition or osmosis?
I have realised two basic things:-
1) learning the music is not a race, nor an exam, nor a competition- I'm in it for the fun and the company
2) there will never be the need to roughen up the edges of my playing to conform to the tradition- that aspect I have well and truly cracked
And yourselves?
And just now thinking "That sounds a bit like some shakuhachi music I have heard... I wonder if these things are striking because of some fundamental quality that we instinctively respond to, rather than a culturally acquired taste. Maybe some academic type will do an exhaustive mathematical analysis of traditional music from all over the world, and calculate a sort of DNA for all forms of music, working back to the original Proto-Melody. But then, since I frequently re-invent the wheel, it has probably already been done. I should just play some tunes."
So I guess I'll stop wool-gathering and play some tunes now.
It gradually dawned on me as I watched/heard Lunasa for the first time ever, at a gig they did in Durham's fair city, that they were not the exemplars of lurid and terminal personal and musical aberrance that something or other had caused me to expect. In fact, I thought they were very good.
The "something or other" would have been the odd comment about them on the mustard board, and my willingness to take two and two and make nine is obviously a measure of the lurid and terminal state of my mental processes.
(Later, after some tunes--what a good idea that was!)
To P-K: Why, yes, I am.
Actually, my Lightbulb Moment followed years of Slow Dawning. As you say, it's not a race or competition.
It's not really about the destination--there is no "destination" really, because your playing will never be perfect. It's all about having fun along the way, and learning new things, and maybe becoming a little less imperfect as you go.
Fantastic piping clip of John McSherry, Mickray - many thanks for link. Also glad to hear you've discovered the real Lúnasa Nicholas - I seen them here in Ennis a couple of weeks ago and they're as good, if not better, than any of the trad super groups around with virtuouso musicians such as Kevin Crawford, Seán Smith and Cillian Vallelly and as for the driving bass playing of Trevor Hutcheson, what more can I say?
My real reason for joining this thread (I've already used up my submission ration today) is to highlight radio and TV spots on RTE radio (tonight) and television (Sunday night) featuring Liverpool trad musicians - see http://comhaltas.ie/events/detail/comhaltas_liverpool_on_rte/. I don't have any inside information on who'll be on the programme but I'd be surprised if singer, Bruce Scott and the Coyne brothers won't be featured. Also it would be great if Seán Mac is now well enough to take part.
Pk, that is not the case, defeatest nonesense. anyone who is physically able, with determination,and intelligent application [teaching?]can become good. Brilliance will however, elude most of us.
Lightbulb moment? Discovered that Maudabawn Chapel/Lafferty's on Paddy in the Smoke is played at the same tempo as the (noisy but necessary) overhead fan in my bedroom on its highest setting. Meaning?? logically that the fan could have joined the session in the big smoke ... but it's so cool! Chucka chucka chucka chucka .........
Now wondering is there a copyright on overhead fan noises and the evening cicada choruses?
If you had a parrot you would know that
a) teaching it to say here kitty kitty is going to hurt the kitty more than the parrot and
b) that all they ever do is debate with you . And they always win. Ok ok. That's not my hat, that's not my pen, that's not my furniture, that's no my moulding, that's not my house. It's yours. You win, stupid bird.
Learning the music IS a race - I should have started 40 years earlier and I have to catch up quick! It's only a competition against Father Time and my limitations.
There is no way I could learn so much, so fast without the Mustard Board. I never imagined that this site would end up being the Internet's "killer app" from my perspective.
Yep, P-K, first day of summer holidays and here am I thinking about recording them both and trying to put some tunes to them ... but do cicadas cicada in the right key? ... and would the end result be accepted as traditional? ... and if so, like which tradition? ... most importantly, would Llig approve??? Big problems, but it's too hot to think now. Send rain, please.
Don't worry- Llig will approve anything with a parrot in it- though a chorus of cicadas would probably do as well.
Over here, up until a few days ago, we've been singing that well-known Irish song "Raindrops keep falling on my head"...
Aboriginal Australian music - pre didgeridoo. Yes Drops rain is needed, although last time I was out your way it was greener there than it is in NSW west of the Great Divide. We are having a few useless drops of rain right now in Canberra.
Hey mhuppert, I heard that (the drops of rain right now bit in Canberra). See news travels faster than the speed of light by message stick. Wait, I'll just get my raincoat, I'm coming! No, actually we're having a few useless drops here at the moment too - really really humid and stifling hot. ... and P-K, I don't know about a parrot. Don't seem to have one round here at the moment. Would a broody top knot pigeon do?
My goodness, you read my mind! No kidding ... but the title would have to be changed to Broody pigeon in the hedge sitting on a rotten egg, with overhead fan and cicada chorus backing. Yep, sounds good ta me. ... but, too late, the cicadas are gone to bed
My Lightbulb Moment a few months ago - realising after nearly 7 years that more intensive technical work on the fiddle couldn't be less than beneficial,
so I found a fully qualified Suzuki teacher (trained at the Suzuki School in Japan) near me who is very much into folk and improvisation, as well as classical, so she usefully sees things from a number of perspectives.
P-K, well, actually, in my biking days I never had anything to do with the Hogs. I was a Norton man through and through (member of the Norton Owners Club 'n' all), and we knew full well that we were vastly superior to almost everything else on two wheels, with the possible exception of the BMWs
Seven years really isn't all that long when learning an instrument. It's a stage when you can become aware that you have the choice of remaining static technically and musically (which I personally wouldn't find satisfying), or doing something about it. I know at least a dozen fiddle players in the Bristol area who have been playing for
much longer than I have and are actively involved in bands and, in some cases, teaching ITM fiddle. And of course there are the many more I've met as tutors and in sessions in Ireland. They are all examples I aspire to in some way or other.
I've been a classical cellist since my early teens, but never played the violin until I became involved in ITM much later in life. So I don't think I've brought any classical violin baggage from my previous life into ITM. I've been immersed in ITM fiddle for very nearly seven years, and I think it's very unlikely that the violin teaching I'm now receiving is going to have an adverse effect on my ITM fiddle playing style, especially since I have such a sympathetic teacher. Rather the reverse - I could see myself putting a bit of swing into Bach or Vivaldi, with authentic ITM fiddle rolls and cuts instead of the baroque versions, if I didn't watch it!
I suspect I may have stumbled on one way of cracking the conundrum of playing the fiddle in both styles, ITM and classical, while keeping them in separate musical compartments.
Over the last year and longer it has continued to dawn on me that the only music worth the name is Classical and things sharing enough of Classical music's characteristics to be likewise amiable, ITM included.
Out goes everything sung by posturing human tomcats or female equivalents to pull a partner, and sounding so horrible that it is practically obligatory to ingest vast amounts of booze or drugs to endure it. There goes rock, blues and a lot of jazz ( the rest of jazz being merely very tedious), not to mention singer-songwriters with grudges against rich girlfriends who threw them out and who think the Pope / the President's actively taking out a contract on them for their last anti-clerical / anti-USA rant, or whatever - I've heard all too bloody many of these in my time. Tho' I make exceptions to the cull for real artists amidst all this, like Dylan or Clapton.
There! I thought I'd never say it! AAAARGH! HAARRUMPH!!
'Tho' I make exceptions to the cull for real artists amidst all this, like Dylan or Clapton.'
Dylan? Possibly. Clapton? Never! Granted, the Bluesbreakers album was a cracker, and so was the early stuff with Cream. After that it's been all downhill.
He failed in his attempt to emulate Hendrix (even down to the atrocious perm), lost the ability to play lead lines (that's Duane Allman on 'Layla'), and sank into atrocious MoR ('I Shot the Sheriff' - no you didn't, Eric, you slapped his face with a wet flannel) of which 'Wonderful Tonight' is the absolute nadir.
Add to that his well-documented racism, despite gleaning all his musical knowledge from black blues players.
Yep, he can still come up with the odd decent lick, but he's nothing compared to three Kings (Albert, BB and Freddie), Albert Collins or Buddy Guy.
Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
What has been the highlight of this year's learning for you on the ould mustard board?- either by flash of recognition or osmosis?
I have realised two basic things:-
1) learning the music is not a race, nor an exam, nor a competition- I'm in it for the fun and the company
2) there will never be the need to roughen up the edges of my playing to conform to the tradition- that aspect I have well and truly cracked
And yourselves?
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Avoid disscussing politics and religion on the mustard board,
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Sorry for your trouble jig- have you been hauled out by the mullahs?
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
just opened my mouth, and put my foot in it! nothing out of the ordinary
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Funny you should ask.
I was just now listening to McSherry's hypnotic pipes
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KQTv8qvkE&NR=1)
And just now thinking "That sounds a bit like some shakuhachi music I have heard... I wonder if these things are striking because of some fundamental quality that we instinctively respond to, rather than a culturally acquired taste. Maybe some academic type will do an exhaustive mathematical analysis of traditional music from all over the world, and calculate a sort of DNA for all forms of music, working back to the original Proto-Melody. But then, since I frequently re-invent the wheel, it has probably already been done. I should just play some tunes."
So I guess I'll stop wool-gathering and play some tunes now.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by John Galt
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
It gradually dawned on me as I watched/heard Lunasa for the first time ever, at a gig they did in Durham's fair city, that they were not the exemplars of lurid and terminal personal and musical aberrance that something or other had caused me to expect. In fact, I thought they were very good.
The "something or other" would have been the odd comment about them on the mustard board, and my willingness to take two and two and make nine is obviously a measure of the lurid and terminal state of my mental processes.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Playing tunes, mickray? What are you- some kind of freak?
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
It has dawned on me that it's a lot of really hard work being the world's worst flute player.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
(Later, after some tunes--what a good idea that was!)
To P-K: Why, yes, I am.
Actually, my Lightbulb Moment followed years of Slow Dawning. As you say, it's not a race or competition.
It's not really about the destination--there is no "destination" really, because your playing will never be perfect. It's all about having fun along the way, and learning new things, and maybe becoming a little less imperfect as you go.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by John Galt
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
I'm getting through lightbulbs here as if there was no tomorrow...
sb, have you considered that maybe some of us are doomed to be crap- *for ever* ?? Oy weh, that's a chilling, almost Old Testament prospect, isn't it?
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Fantastic piping clip of John McSherry, Mickray - many thanks for link. Also glad to hear you've discovered the real Lúnasa Nicholas - I seen them here in Ennis a couple of weeks ago and they're as good, if not better, than any of the trad super groups around with virtuouso musicians such as Kevin Crawford, Seán Smith and Cillian Vallelly and as for the driving bass playing of Trevor Hutcheson, what more can I say?
My real reason for joining this thread (I've already used up my submission ration today) is to highlight radio and TV spots on RTE radio (tonight) and television (Sunday night) featuring Liverpool trad musicians - see http://comhaltas.ie/events/detail/comhaltas_liverpool_on_rte/. I don't have any inside information on who'll be on the programme but I'd be surprised if singer, Bruce Scott and the Coyne brothers won't be featured. Also it would be great if Seán Mac is now well enough to take part.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
nope. nothing. sorry.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by drone
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
that attempting to debate with parrots is pointless
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by ...
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
...as Robert Newton found to his cost in 'Treasure Island'.
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Squaaaawk - what was that Llig?
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Let's teach him to say, "Here, kitty kitty!"
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by John Galt
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
tee hee
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by ...
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Also learnt of a song, translated from the Irish, with the immortal line: "It's yer granny, it's yer granny, it's yer granny...".
# Posted on December 14th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Pk, that is not the case, defeatest nonesense. anyone who is physically able, with determination,and intelligent application [teaching?]can become good. Brilliance will however, elude most of us.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Lightbulb moment? Discovered that Maudabawn Chapel/Lafferty's on Paddy in the Smoke is played at the same tempo as the (noisy but necessary) overhead fan in my bedroom on its highest setting. Meaning?? logically that the fan could have joined the session in the big smoke
... but it's so cool! Chucka chucka chucka chucka .........
Now wondering is there a copyright on overhead fan noises and the evening cicada choruses?
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
If you had a parrot you would know that
a) teaching it to say here kitty kitty is going to hurt the kitty more than the parrot and
b) that all they ever do is debate with you . And they always win. Ok ok. That's not my hat, that's not my pen, that's not my furniture, that's no my moulding, that's not my house. It's yours. You win, stupid bird.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Jan- sounds like some kind of outback fusion you are proposing there- chucka chucka chucka, pieces of eight....
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Learning the music IS a race - I should have started 40 years earlier and I have to catch up quick! It's only a competition against Father Time and my limitations.
There is no way I could learn so much, so fast without the Mustard Board. I never imagined that this site would end up being the Internet's "killer app" from my perspective.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Hup
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Yup. Big thanks to the 40,000+ devotees and especially to Jeremy.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by wolfbird
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
That'll get deleted- our divine presence is a modest one!
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Yep, P-K, first day of summer holidays and here am I thinking about recording them both and trying to put some tunes to them ... but do cicadas cicada in the right key? ... and would the end result be accepted as traditional? ... and if so, like which tradition? ... most importantly, would Llig approve??? Big problems, but it's too hot to think now. Send rain, please.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Don't worry- Llig will approve anything with a parrot in it- though a chorus of cicadas would probably do as well.
Over here, up until a few days ago, we've been singing that well-known Irish song "Raindrops keep falling on my head"...
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Aboriginal Australian music - pre didgeridoo. Yes Drops rain is needed, although last time I was out your way it was greener there than it is in NSW west of the Great Divide. We are having a few useless drops of rain right now in Canberra.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Hup
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Hey mhuppert, I heard that (the drops of rain right now bit in Canberra). See news travels faster than the speed of light by message stick. Wait, I'll just get my raincoat, I'm coming! No, actually we're having a few useless drops here at the moment too - really really humid and stifling hot. ... and P-K, I don't know about a parrot. Don't seem to have one round here at the moment. Would a broody top knot pigeon do?
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
You could do a hip-hop version of 'Pigeon on the Gate' -he'd like that.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
My goodness, you read my mind! No kidding ... but the title would have to be changed to Broody pigeon in the hedge sitting on a rotten egg, with overhead fan and cicada chorus backing. Yep, sounds good ta me. ... but, too late, the cicadas are gone to bed
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
My Lightbulb Moment a few months ago - realising after nearly 7 years that more intensive technical work on the fiddle couldn't be less than beneficial,
so I found a fully qualified Suzuki teacher (trained at the Suzuki School in Japan) near me who is very much into folk and improvisation, as well as classical, so she usefully sees things from a number of perspectives.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
At the risk of embarrassing him, I should point out that this man (lazyhound) is already up there with the Harley Davidsons of fiddle playing.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Exactly his point [ i think] however good we are.... we can be better.
# Posted on December 15th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
P-K, well, actually, in my biking days I never had anything to do with the Hogs. I was a Norton man through and through (member of the Norton Owners Club 'n' all), and we knew full well that we were vastly superior to almost everything else on two wheels, with the possible exception of the BMWs
Seven years really isn't all that long when learning an instrument. It's a stage when you can become aware that you have the choice of remaining static technically and musically (which I personally wouldn't find satisfying), or doing something about it. I know at least a dozen fiddle players in the Bristol area who have been playing for
much longer than I have and are actively involved in bands and, in some cases, teaching ITM fiddle. And of course there are the many more I've met as tutors and in sessions in Ireland. They are all examples I aspire to in some way or other.
I've been a classical cellist since my early teens, but never played the violin until I became involved in ITM much later in life. So I don't think I've brought any classical violin baggage from my previous life into ITM. I've been immersed in ITM fiddle for very nearly seven years, and I think it's very unlikely that the violin teaching I'm now receiving is going to have an adverse effect on my ITM fiddle playing style, especially since I have such a sympathetic teacher. Rather the reverse - I could see myself putting a bit of swing into Bach or Vivaldi, with authentic ITM fiddle rolls and cuts instead of the baroque versions, if I didn't watch it!
I suspect I may have stumbled on one way of cracking the conundrum of playing the fiddle in both styles, ITM and classical, while keeping them in separate musical compartments.
# Posted on December 16th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Over the last year and longer it has continued to dawn on me that the only music worth the name is Classical and things sharing enough of Classical music's characteristics to be likewise amiable, ITM included.
Out goes everything sung by posturing human tomcats or female equivalents to pull a partner, and sounding so horrible that it is practically obligatory to ingest vast amounts of booze or drugs to endure it. There goes rock, blues and a lot of jazz ( the rest of jazz being merely very tedious), not to mention singer-songwriters with grudges against rich girlfriends who threw them out and who think the Pope / the President's actively taking out a contract on them for their last anti-clerical / anti-USA rant, or whatever - I've heard all too bloody many of these in my time. Tho' I make exceptions to the cull for real artists amidst all this, like Dylan or Clapton.
There! I thought I'd never say it! AAAARGH! HAARRUMPH!!
# Posted on December 16th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
Or:
Traditional music has real soul. It is played for its own sake, not for any worldy gains.
"Classical" (European academic) music is worth the name because it is based on traditional music.
# Posted on December 16th 2007 by John Galt
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
'Tho' I make exceptions to the cull for real artists amidst all this, like Dylan or Clapton.'
Dylan? Possibly. Clapton? Never! Granted, the Bluesbreakers album was a cracker, and so was the early stuff with Cream. After that it's been all downhill.
He failed in his attempt to emulate Hendrix (even down to the atrocious perm), lost the ability to play lead lines (that's Duane Allman on 'Layla'), and sank into atrocious MoR ('I Shot the Sheriff' - no you didn't, Eric, you slapped his face with a wet flannel) of which 'Wonderful Tonight' is the absolute nadir.
Add to that his well-documented racism, despite gleaning all his musical knowledge from black blues players.
Yep, he can still come up with the odd decent lick, but he's nothing compared to three Kings (Albert, BB and Freddie), Albert Collins or Buddy Guy.
Rant over.
# Posted on December 16th 2007 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Lightbulb Moment or Gradual Dawning 2007?
That the mustard board is merely the interlude between sessions, which are the raison d'etre.
# Posted on December 18th 2007 by Guernsey Pete