I recently bought a bodhran from Seamus O'Kane - it's excellent but there's already lots of comment to that end on this site. I know he favours the use of a long, thin tipper "like a piece of fiddle bow" - hmmm....sounds like the opposite of the old penknife joke. Anyway Seamus mentioned that hazel twigs make great tippers because they are really springy and if you have a spare one, batter the ends with a hammer to make 'brushes' Just wondering if anyone had tried ash or hazel, or indeed any other strange stuff.
I have made dozens of tippers for lots of players and have used all sorts of woods. Some examples are ash, oak, cocobolo, cherry, walnut, maple, birch, etc., and in many shapes and sizes. Lengths have varied from about 6 inches up to 11 inches, with end diameters from 5/8 inch up to 1-1/4 inch. Most are about 5/8 inch at the point where they are held. I even made one that was about 6-1/2 inches lond with ends that were loaded with lead for a player who wanted a short, heavy tipper I don't understand why a tipper needs to be springy as all the spring or bounce that you need should be provided by head of the drum.
Have to largely agree with you about the drum head having the necessary spring. I expect that people who mainly use only one end of the stick might want the extra-springy stick to easily achieve snare-drum type rolls. That said, if you're good enough you can get this with almost any stick.
izzymac - Where did you read that remark by Seamus about the Hazel twigs? I'm asking because I don't believe it's on his very brief web site info, and if you say it in an article, I was going to ask for a reference, or a link, or even "cut and paste" it onto this site.
On the tipper remark, I personally think that long, thin tippers are recommended on O'Kane drums because the skin is so thin. It would be the opposite on a heaver skinned drum like a Belgarth (just a a general rule).
Back on topic, ...... you asked about tipper material.For long, thin tippers, I would think arts and craft {tores or hardwood shops that sell "dowel" material would be worth trying. That dowel rod comes in rather long lengths so you could obtain some in different densities and woods, like oak and ash or maple, cut a length longer than you would need, and keep cutting back until you find a perfect length for your style.
Another Idea I've had is to produce tippers out of used drum sticks. I plan to do this once I get out of this darn apartment where I can't even sneeze loudly without having the neighbors bang on the walls. Drumsticks come in a great variety of woods and thicknessess... Most drumstores have closeout bins and you could get a great heap for a low price.
What I would like to try (or would like one of you to try) is to make a tipper with a split end, a horizontal cut down a thin enough tipper would give the stick an interesting "click" when played. It would have to be positioned correctly so that the stick strike on both ends against the head is perpendicular and you would get the drun tone and the stick click but I think it has a lot of potential........ Hey, you're a bright lad,...... do some experimenting and get back to us.... Thx!
The remark about the hazel twigs came from Seamus himself when I phoned to say I'd received the bodhran. I have tried making one from 10mm dowel which is fine and also one with splits (an x at each end) but my fave clicky one is made from lots of thin dowels (7 I think, rounded at the ends) as mentioned in discussions before. Being a kit drummer as well, I thought the idea of springy sticks was a bit strange which is why I asked for comment rather than try it straight away. I think the idea of making brush ends with hazel works because of the wood being so fibrous.
I use a tipper I made out of garden cane, and it’s the best I've ever had. The material is cheap so you can experiment with different sizes, I just saw it to length leaving a node at each end, sand it rounded, and rap some waxed twine around it for grip, and Bobs your Uncle.
I am very interested in this topic because for me, the tipper is so fundamentally crucial to the playing of the irish drum. I have tried so many, and still, I don't have the one style that is ideal. Maybe it will come with time, that I can approach the drum like Conan and play the drum with almost anything. I can do that with drumsticks and the drumset, although I do have my strong preferences. I once played the first set of a gig with a pair of butter knives until a friend arrived to provide me with a real pair which apparently had been lifted as souviners after set up... (my whole stick bag)..
I'm not so ready to brush aside the flexible stick idea just yet.... Sure, too much flexibility is self-defeating, but a certain amount might provide a nice acceleration in the stroke for dynamics. I love tipper Makers. I wish I knew about a dozen of them!
and Uncle Bob told me to ask what the heck a Hazel twig is anyway.
For years my main tipper was a sawn-off drumstick, Irish_Ruff. It worked fine for me.
I find that sometimes the tune calls for something else, though, so I have two others. One's an ordinary "dumbell" tipper with chamois leather taped (well, stringed) around the ends. More drum, less stick is the resulting sound (but you have to hit a little sharper). The other is a bunch of thin dowels lashed together in the middle (more string!) and with ends sanded round - more swishy-click, less drum.
I'm not using the drumstick now cos it doesn't "work" on my newish O'Kane (could be the 16" head compared to the 18" of my previous drum). Now using a thin ebony tipper that's working fine. Have to lay in to it a bit at loud sessions, though.
Has anyone tried weighted (metal inserts) tippers for more mass?
Yes, I have, Greenman. I liked the weighted stick I had. I gave it up, though, when it started to splinter. It was only made of lightweight doweling. (sigh!) The one I had was weighted differently on one side than the other and seemed to give me the help I needed to stop my tendency to hit too many triplets.
Pied Piper, what is garden cane? I'd like to know what a Hazel twig is, too.
Hey..... Linda's back... howdy!... I'm glad nobody has thought to mention "BP tippers" yet, in regards to various tipper material hooHa!. .
I was thinking about the cane that was mentioned. I have seen cane in that shape in various fly rods... We call it bamboo. It does have a nice slender form which is interrupted in 8-10" intervals by nice solid joints or knuckles which would be excellent tipper ends... Nice thought. I do think they would be very light but that's not a bad thing according to what I read among the preferences here, although I still personally choose a medium weight and some kind of finger grip in the middle to prevent sliding. I have two weighted end tippers from Brendan White that I have never seriously tried. They are an attractive design being lathed out of two different colors of wood and have a small post of brass rod glued in each end. The problem for me was the diameter which is too thin, like a 1/4" or so. I don't recommend buying tipper assortments hoping for a good one... It's much better to order something specific to your best estimated fit.
On the tipper weighting, it would not be difficult to drill a small pilot hole in tipper end and screw in a small brass or steel wood screw. There is also "lead thread" (seriously,- we use it in fly tying to wrap around the hook shank to make a weighted, sinking lure - "barb-less", of course, for non-damaging catch and release !) That thread could be wrapped around the ends or the shaft to change the balance. Tipper science does have a long way to go
The fiddle bow suggestion is not a joke. My mate Paul Phillips [twice runner up in the All Ireland] and recently on tour in the States with Kila uses old fiddle bows kindly donated by fiddlers whose hair has fallen out [on the bow that is not the fiddler] which he cuts and smooths.
Paul also, incidentally, plays an O'Kane drum.
For other sounds he has a jazz 'brush', a handful of barbecue sticks ends removed and taped with ordinary black electricians tape, and a lovely wee stick that has been reamed at the ends and filled with lead to give added weight.
Yes "Garden Cane" is Bamboo, and readily available here in the UK "Garden Centres" throughout the year. It comes in various diameters, ratio of hole to diameter, and space between nodes.
Some of it is about right for making flutes or Whistles from about low G upwards, but that’s another subject. The tipper I use is just over 1/2'' in diameter and 12'' long.
For those of you asking - a hazel twig is just a rod (part of a branch?) of hazel wood. I guess it's a twig because it's grown to that size rather than being turned on a lathe from a block or larger diameter. I got in touch with this company http://www.twigpencils.co.uk/ as they use hazel of the kind of diameter so I'm trying to get some 8-10mm dia. to experiment with.
If you're making a tipper from barbecue sticks or dowel, it's worth glueing them all together under wuere you would put the tape in the centre as it stops the ones in the centre sliding around.
Marc Duff (ex-Capercaillie) taught me to play initially and he uses the bottom half of a wood recorder (instrument, not a device for recording wood) and his playing's really good. He says it just works for him.
Insights from the drummers with Kila, Capercaillie!...... next we will have Joe John Kelly of Flook making a cameo appearance. (I hope). The photo on their site shows him playing with a long ebony rod,..... 12" or so.
RE: Hazel twig... I see what it looks like. Yes,.. true.... Some woods do retain a nice flexibility even after drying, like bamboo, and I assume, twig. I have to believe that if Seamus recommends it, it probably has some merit!
I've made lots of tippers for various people and by far the most succesfull of all by far (if you like heavier types) is made not of wood but by Tufnol which is made up of paper or cloth and resin and heat -treated and formed to look like wood.(Try a google search which explains it in detail). I find that if you like wee tippers (6 -8 inches) this is the best.
Alan
In a galaxy, far, far away... where they have Kryptonite tippers.
Seriously though, I agree that an even weight distribution is better then end weighting. That is the case with all equipment, sporting gear, hand tools (well, except a hammer), tall glasses of ale, whatever! I don't know about these wee tippers though?!? Can you actually use them for a triplet, or are they for a special purpose....
My favorite wood for a tipper, (other than cocobolo which everyone loves), is Corian. It's a dense, white hardwood that looks like bone.... Now that I think of it, has anyone ever tried bone as a tipper material? (and no BP tipper jokes, please).... that would be most inappropriate, har, har, har.....
I've got a few of these inter-galactic Tufnol tippers made by Alanmmcgregor. They look great and are very heavy. For some tunes they are definitely the best (personal opinion of course).
Just to thow in my two cents... Corian is not a hardwood... it's a plastic material originally made for countertops by the DuPont company. It's available in all sorts of colors (including "bone") and it turns on a lathe very well. It's very dense and would probably be comparable to ebony.
Now, for the bonus round of questions..... Can anybody suggest a flexible but durable tipper material. I would prefer a natural material but a synthetic, if available, would be good.
Reason:
Seriously,...... a flexible stick, and I mean very flexible, but not loopy like a spagetti noodle, but a material that will bend enough to give you a nice curve " ( " makes an interesting stick. I tried it with, (well, I won't tell you with what because it's too silly) but it gives a very distinctive "flam" sound similar to "grace notes".....
Ever tried a hair brush? A couple of days ago I met a guy with an O´Kane bodhran who had an absurde collection of possible and somewhat impossible beaters. I liked the hair brush most - it made a very nice sound especially when the guy used the brush side regularly and the other end as an occasional dropped in bass drum boing ....
my band mate Maureen got her 0`Kane bodhran with the thin bowstick like beater, which had a screw in one end ... she liked the special asymetric weight balance, but unfortunately the beater broke longside the screw during a gig (the screw flew into the audience but did not hit someone) ...
Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Materials for Bodhran Tippers
I recently bought a bodhran from Seamus O'Kane - it's excellent but there's already lots of comment to that end on this site. I know he favours the use of a long, thin tipper "like a piece of fiddle bow" - hmmm....sounds like the opposite of the old penknife joke. Anyway Seamus mentioned that hazel twigs make great tippers because they are really springy and if you have a spare one, batter the ends with a hammer to make 'brushes' Just wondering if anyone had tried ash or hazel, or indeed any other strange stuff.
# Posted on April 27th 2003 by izzymac
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
I have made dozens of tippers for lots of players and have used all sorts of woods. Some examples are ash, oak, cocobolo, cherry, walnut, maple, birch, etc., and in many shapes and sizes. Lengths have varied from about 6 inches up to 11 inches, with end diameters from 5/8 inch up to 1-1/4 inch. Most are about 5/8 inch at the point where they are held. I even made one that was about 6-1/2 inches lond with ends that were loaded with lead for a player who wanted a short, heavy tipper I don't understand why a tipper needs to be springy as all the spring or bounce that you need should be provided by head of the drum.
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by rkirby833
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Have to largely agree with you about the drum head having the necessary spring. I expect that people who mainly use only one end of the stick might want the extra-springy stick to easily achieve snare-drum type rolls. That said, if you're good enough you can get this with almost any stick.
Conán
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
izzymac - Where did you read that remark by Seamus about the Hazel twigs? I'm asking because I don't believe it's on his very brief web site info, and if you say it in an article, I was going to ask for a reference, or a link, or even "cut and paste" it onto this site.
On the tipper remark, I personally think that long, thin tippers are recommended on O'Kane drums because the skin is so thin. It would be the opposite on a heaver skinned drum like a Belgarth (just a a general rule).
Back on topic, ...... you asked about tipper material.For long, thin tippers, I would think arts and craft {tores or hardwood shops that sell "dowel" material would be worth trying. That dowel rod comes in rather long lengths so you could obtain some in different densities and woods, like oak and ash or maple, cut a length longer than you would need, and keep cutting back until you find a perfect length for your style.
Another Idea I've had is to produce tippers out of used drum sticks. I plan to do this once I get out of this darn apartment where I can't even sneeze loudly without having the neighbors bang on the walls. Drumsticks come in a great variety of woods and thicknessess... Most drumstores have closeout bins and you could get a great heap for a low price.
What I would like to try (or would like one of you to try) is to make a tipper with a split end, a horizontal cut down a thin enough tipper would give the stick an interesting "click" when played. It would have to be positioned correctly so that the stick strike on both ends against the head is perpendicular and you would get the drun tone and the stick click but I think it has a lot of potential........ Hey, you're a bright lad,...... do some experimenting and get back to us.... Thx!
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
The remark about the hazel twigs came from Seamus himself when I phoned to say I'd received the bodhran. I have tried making one from 10mm dowel which is fine and also one with splits (an x at each end) but my fave clicky one is made from lots of thin dowels (7 I think, rounded at the ends) as mentioned in discussions before. Being a kit drummer as well, I thought the idea of springy sticks was a bit strange which is why I asked for comment rather than try it straight away. I think the idea of making brush ends with hazel works because of the wood being so fibrous.
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by izzymac
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
I use a tipper I made out of garden cane, and it’s the best I've ever had. The material is cheap so you can experiment with different sizes, I just saw it to length leaving a node at each end, sand it rounded, and rap some waxed twine around it for grip, and Bobs your Uncle.
All the best PP
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
I am very interested in this topic because for me, the tipper is so fundamentally crucial to the playing of the irish drum. I have tried so many, and still, I don't have the one style that is ideal. Maybe it will come with time, that I can approach the drum like Conan and play the drum with almost anything. I can do that with drumsticks and the drumset, although I do have my strong preferences. I once played the first set of a gig with a pair of butter knives until a friend arrived to provide me with a real pair which apparently had been lifted as souviners after set up... (my whole stick bag)..
I'm not so ready to brush aside the flexible stick idea just yet.... Sure, too much flexibility is self-defeating, but a certain amount might provide a nice acceleration in the stroke for dynamics. I love tipper Makers. I wish I knew about a dozen of them!
and Uncle Bob told me to ask what the heck a Hazel twig is anyway.
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
For years my main tipper was a sawn-off drumstick, Irish_Ruff. It worked fine for me.
I find that sometimes the tune calls for something else, though, so I have two others. One's an ordinary "dumbell" tipper with chamois leather taped (well, stringed) around the ends. More drum, less stick is the resulting sound (but you have to hit a little sharper). The other is a bunch of thin dowels lashed together in the middle (more string!) and with ends sanded round - more swishy-click, less drum.
I'm not using the drumstick now cos it doesn't "work" on my newish O'Kane (could be the 16" head compared to the 18" of my previous drum). Now using a thin ebony tipper that's working fine. Have to lay in to it a bit at loud sessions, though.
Has anyone tried weighted (metal inserts) tippers for more mass?
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by greenman
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Yes, I have, Greenman. I liked the weighted stick I had. I gave it up, though, when it started to splinter. It was only made of lightweight doweling. (sigh!) The one I had was weighted differently on one side than the other and seemed to give me the help I needed to stop my tendency to hit too many triplets.
Pied Piper, what is garden cane? I'd like to know what a Hazel twig is, too.
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by linda
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Hey..... Linda's back... howdy!... I'm glad nobody has thought to mention "BP tippers" yet, in regards to various tipper material hooHa!. .
I was thinking about the cane that was mentioned. I have seen cane in that shape in various fly rods... We call it bamboo. It does have a nice slender form which is interrupted in 8-10" intervals by nice solid joints or knuckles which would be excellent tipper ends... Nice thought. I do think they would be very light but that's not a bad thing according to what I read among the preferences here, although I still personally choose a medium weight and some kind of finger grip in the middle to prevent sliding. I have two weighted end tippers from Brendan White that I have never seriously tried. They are an attractive design being lathed out of two different colors of wood and have a small post of brass rod glued in each end. The problem for me was the diameter which is too thin, like a 1/4" or so. I don't recommend buying tipper assortments hoping for a good one... It's much better to order something specific to your best estimated fit.
On the tipper weighting, it would not be difficult to drill a small pilot hole in tipper end and screw in a small brass or steel wood screw. There is also "lead thread" (seriously,- we use it in fly tying to wrap around the hook shank to make a weighted, sinking lure - "barb-less", of course, for non-damaging catch and release !) That thread could be wrapped around the ends or the shaft to change the balance. Tipper science does have a long way to go
Where can one find a length of ebony rod?
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
The fiddle bow suggestion is not a joke. My mate Paul Phillips [twice runner up in the All Ireland] and recently on tour in the States with Kila uses old fiddle bows kindly donated by fiddlers whose hair has fallen out [on the bow that is not the fiddler] which he cuts and smooths.
Paul also, incidentally, plays an O'Kane drum.
For other sounds he has a jazz 'brush', a handful of barbecue sticks ends removed and taped with ordinary black electricians tape, and a lovely wee stick that has been reamed at the ends and filled with lead to give added weight.
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by breandan
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Yes "Garden Cane" is Bamboo, and readily available here in the UK "Garden Centres" throughout the year. It comes in various diameters, ratio of hole to diameter, and space between nodes.
Some of it is about right for making flutes or Whistles from about low G upwards, but that’s another subject. The tipper I use is just over 1/2'' in diameter and 12'' long.
All the best PP
# Posted on April 28th 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
For those of you asking - a hazel twig is just a rod (part of a branch?) of hazel wood. I guess it's a twig because it's grown to that size rather than being turned on a lathe from a block or larger diameter. I got in touch with this company http://www.twigpencils.co.uk/ as they use hazel of the kind of diameter so I'm trying to get some 8-10mm dia. to experiment with.
If you're making a tipper from barbecue sticks or dowel, it's worth glueing them all together under wuere you would put the tape in the centre as it stops the ones in the centre sliding around.
Marc Duff (ex-Capercaillie) taught me to play initially and he uses the bottom half of a wood recorder (instrument, not a device for recording wood) and his playing's really good. He says it just works for him.
# Posted on April 29th 2003 by izzymac
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Insights from the drummers with Kila, Capercaillie!...... next we will have Joe John Kelly of Flook making a cameo appearance. (I hope). The photo on their site shows him playing with a long ebony rod,..... 12" or so.
RE: Hazel twig... I see what it looks like. Yes,.. true.... Some woods do retain a nice flexibility even after drying, like bamboo, and I assume, twig. I have to believe that if Seamus recommends it, it probably has some merit!
# Posted on April 29th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
I've made lots of tippers for various people and by far the most succesfull of all by far (if you like heavier types) is made not of wood but by Tufnol which is made up of paper or cloth and resin and heat -treated and formed to look like wood.(Try a google search which explains it in detail). I find that if you like wee tippers (6 -8 inches) this is the best.
Alan
# Posted on April 29th 2003 by Alanmmcgregor
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
by far,by far,by far!!!
Alan
# Posted on April 29th 2003 by Alanmmcgregor
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
In a galaxy, far, far away... where they have Kryptonite tippers.
Seriously though, I agree that an even weight distribution is better then end weighting. That is the case with all equipment, sporting gear, hand tools (well, except a hammer), tall glasses of ale, whatever! I don't know about these wee tippers though?!? Can you actually use them for a triplet, or are they for a special purpose....
My favorite wood for a tipper, (other than cocobolo which everyone loves), is Corian. It's a dense, white hardwood that looks like bone.... Now that I think of it, has anyone ever tried bone as a tipper material? (and no BP tipper jokes, please).... that would be most inappropriate, har, har, har.....
# Posted on April 29th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
I've got a few of these inter-galactic Tufnol tippers made by Alanmmcgregor. They look great and are very heavy. For some tunes they are definitely the best (personal opinion of course).
# Posted on May 2nd 2003 by bouzyboy
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Just to thow in my two cents... Corian is not a hardwood... it's a plastic material originally made for countertops by the DuPont company. It's available in all sorts of colors (including "bone") and it turns on a lathe very well. It's very dense and would probably be comparable to ebony.
# Posted on May 4th 2003 by PineyPiper
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Hummm. That was worth more than 2 cents. More like 2 pounds. Thanks. What hardwood would be white and extremely dense, like ebony... Any?
# Posted on May 5th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Holly is very dense and very light colored. It's used in the boat-building world for decking. It's also very durable, obviously.
# Posted on May 6th 2003 by PineyPiper
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Thank you. I'm glad I asked........!
Now, for the bonus round of questions..... Can anybody suggest a flexible but durable tipper material. I would prefer a natural material but a synthetic, if available, would be good.
Reason:
Seriously,...... a flexible stick, and I mean very flexible, but not loopy like a spagetti noodle, but a material that will bend enough to give you a nice curve " ( " makes an interesting stick. I tried it with, (well, I won't tell you with what because it's too silly) but it gives a very distinctive "flam" sound similar to "grace notes".....
Anybody out there care to discuss this further?
# Posted on May 7th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Materials for Bodhran Tippers
Ever tried a hair brush? A couple of days ago I met a guy with an O´Kane bodhran who had an absurde collection of possible and somewhat impossible beaters. I liked the hair brush most - it made a very nice sound especially when the guy used the brush side regularly and the other end as an occasional dropped in bass drum boing ....
my band mate Maureen got her 0`Kane bodhran with the thin bowstick like beater, which had a screw in one end ... she liked the special asymetric weight balance, but unfortunately the beater broke longside the screw during a gig (the screw flew into the audience but did not hit someone) ...
# Posted on May 13th 2003 by crannog