Just reporting back. As a result of a discussion a while ago, i bought a high tension incredibow. It arrived yesterday. Although an hour so of playing isnt much, i am delighted with it. It is very light, draws a clear rich and full tone, seems sensitive and responsive. We have been a bit busy so havnt had too much time to use it, we had a baby girl yesterday too!
I would recomend them, they are a bit different but not expensive and fun. It will take a while to seriously compare it with our other bows but first impressions are favourable,
Any one else here any experiance with them?
WOW! ~ I just realized, you're in your mid 40's and have a new baby! I'll light a candle for you... I hope you have previous experience with diapers. Just remember to sing or hum or lilt as you do it, and don't breath through your nose...
You got me grinning from ear to ear... I had only a small figment of worry there... You must be in heaven, a new child and a new bow. What next ~ a new fiddle? You know you have my best wishes... It reverted me to the 60's and the first word that came out, whispered and hopefully not overheard, was "cool!"...not about the bow.
I hope sometime to get a chance to own one of those incredibows and give it a try, someday. I'll have to settle for just that, we are beyond the new birth stage...
Congrats Jig. As a 40 something parent of a one year old who is trying to slap the keys as I type I know you are in for a lot of fun. Our's dances when we play. It's lovely.
I bought a featherweight no-frills incredibow for my partner's birthday present at the start of the week. She's not had much time to play it either but first impressions are all favourable. She says it's light, responsive, easy to play and the tone it produces is really good. Her other bows feel so 'last century'! Well done to the folks at Serenity Mountain, USA who shipped the bow to us in the UK in less than two weeks.
I'm looking for a new bow at the moment, having been told recently by a violinist/fiddler friend with a few decades of playing and teaching experience, that the one I have (which was in the case with the fiddle when I was given it) is "a crap bow". I was heartened to hear this, as I know now that it's not *only* my playing that's at fault. On the other hand, it means I have to spend money - I know there are good bows (good enough for me, that is) around that are within my budget, but I want to be sure I am not overpaying.
I have considered a carbon fibre bow before. But another friend of mine, a fiddler and violin maker (that is to say, he plays traditional 'fiddle' but builds 'violins' for the classical market - well, actually, not for any *market* exactly, but that's another story) uses one and has found that it is strongly affected by atmospheric conditions - much more so than wooden bows. At times, he finds that it is impossible to get the hair up to tension within the adjustment range of the frog, whilst at other times it is fine.
It seems counterintuitive that a carbon fibre bow should be *more* affected by humidity than a wooden one, carbon being non-hygroscopic - a carbon fibre stick ought to be unaffected by just about anything other than the pull of the hair. However, my speculation is that the inertia of the carbon is precisely where the problem lies. With a wooden bow, variation in humidity causes the hair to slacken or tighten, but this is counteracted by the movement of the wood, which lengthens and shortens fractionally, concurrently with the hair.
Does this sound plausible? Is it a reason not to buy a carbon fibre bow? Are the better quality carbon fibre bows somehow less susceptible to this problem?
Carbon fibre bows are much, much better than wood for extreme weather conditions. For 11+ weeks in the summer in Wisconsin I have an outdoor gig, which can mean over 100F + 100% humidity. A wood bow would just... die. I bought a carbon fibre bow specifically to play these sorts of shows. I own a Coda Conservatory bow, and am very pleased with it.
Well the incedibow i have is allways tensioned! so thats not an issue, it was a problem with a couple of cheapish carbon fibre standered design bows i have . I imagine if i sent a grand on one it would be great, but!......
I have my old bow, german octagonal, that i have used constantly for 15 yrs, however it had an accident, i repaired it ok but it sent me looking for something stronger. The other issue I have is this; I like a tight bow as i play rhythmically and need a lot of tension. This has caused many problems with not getting this tension , for a number of reasons. So the incredibow really looks like the answer to my problems.
My old fav wont be neglected i think but.....
Congratulations on the baby!
I bought an Incredibow at the beginning of May this year, mainly because I had had some problems getting rehairs for the ordinary bows, also I thought it would be a good practice bow to leave out in the room as it has a fixed tension. The first evening I had to force myself to keep using it as it felt so strange, but since then I have used it constantly - I haven't had the old bow out of the case through a full season of festivals and sessions. The only area I found to be a problem is if you are trying to play with a quiet instrument or at the top end of the bow, it doesn't feel as responsive as a proper bow. However this may be to do with my own lack of expertise. For session dance music I find it ideal, and a lot less to worry about when you leave it on a pub table! I actually think I get a better tone with this than the other bows. It doesn't do much for my street cred though, I have had some funny looks!
NameChanges, I agree with reenactor. I use a CF bow along with a couple of decent wood bows, and have no problems with it, even though it's not top of range. It's my preferred bow for most session playing.
As with all bows, it's normal for the hairs to go slightly slack after a few minutes playing and so to need tightening. This is due to warming up of the hair due to friction in playing, and probably also atmospheric changes of temperature and humidity.
Very odd about the behaviour of that CF bow you referred to. I should have thought a violin maker would have been able to sort it out. I know they may not specifically be skilled in bow making, but they are trained to do the routine stuff of rehairing and dealing with frog problems. Sounds almost like that bow could have been made on a "Friday afternoon end-of-shift before a Bank Holiday"
On the carbon bow that acted oddly to weather changes ~ some cheap models are actually hollow, and roughly made. Maybe it is something like this and the air cavity is actually causing the problem?
With reasonable carbon bows I haven't known, as others before have mentioned, there to be a problem...
I just saw the pricing on these bows ~ WOW! again... I think I'll add it to my wish list and hope my beloved wife checks it out. Though, she is a bit shy about adding to my musical menagerie...
Congratulations on the new addition(s) to the family. I adopted a baby girl at the age of 45....nothing to fear. It's a joy, but you may have to get creative with finding time to practice.
Quick plug - if you're in the UK look at http://tinyurl.com/3x39oe and if there's one you want to try and it's in stock, let us know - pay before 1500 and you'll have it in your hands the next working day. Then take 60 days to try it out and if you don't like it, you can return it to us for a refund.
How about that?
We were the first major UK importers. Ours cost slightly more than buying them from Ed but then we have to be honest and pay import duty - you may get away with it if you go direct!
You've got a new baby girl? Good man, well done. Tis a grand thing. Nae animosity and congratulations. (do your missus a favour and give the internet a rest)
1. We only make bows using Carbon Fiber sticks. We use NO WOOD in any bows, although we can make them LOOK like wood. (See Colors page for options)
2. We use NO Horsehair. ALL the "hair" is made of tough polymer filament designed to grab the strings well (when rosined) and last literally for YEARS! Bow AND hair is warranted to last a minimum of three years. Some musicians have regularly used the same Incredibow for four years now, without loss of even one hair! WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG THIS BOW WILL LAST WITH PROPER CARE.
I've got incredibows and have never broken a hair. One is particularly well used and due for a batth!!
Got one of the Hi-tension ones earlier this year and love it - I've dropped the hint to my husband that I'd like another hi-tension one for Christmas!!
I've got one of their feather-light Incredibows, and I've been using it for over a year without any problems. No broken hairs. I only rosin it about once a month!
I've used it everywhere from a cold room in a barn (~50F) to outdoor festivals in the middle of summer 95F+ w/100% humidity and have never been let down.
The only negative comment we had about the bow in use was from one person who toured extensively and at one gig it was so windy on stage that the rosin blew off (mind you, it also blew the bow off the stage at one point!).
Probably still more bomb-proof than the equivalent wooden bows.
We have several examples where people have bought them as a second bow and ended up using them as their bow of choice almost exclusively.
Last year I was playing in an open bandstand at a gig near the coast on a very windy day. The bow hair was getting a lot of aerodynamic lift from the wind (due to its flat, thin shape) and so I changed to a heavier viola bow, which made bowing more manageable. Anyway, I have a bow hold such that the bow being blown or falling from my hand would be virtually impossible.
Ceolachan, there's no iron grip. It's not a "grip", it's a relaxed, but strong, hold.
The bow stick lies more or less under the second joint (counting from the finger tip towards the hand) of each of the 1st (index), 2nd and 3rd fingers. The two distal phalanges (i.e. furthest from the hand) of each of those fingers fall down from the stick to the bow hairs and are relaxed. They're not doing anything, not even touching the bow. I just make sure I don't touch the bow hairs with those fingers (that could affect the sound).
The thumb is always bent and its distal phalange lies between the hairs and that leather sleeve on the stick between the metal winding and the frog. The tip of my thumb can easily touch the pad of the 2nd of 3rd finger. Therein lies the bow security; the stick is totally enclosed in one region by the thumb and those three fingers.
The little finger (4th) will be bent and can easily bear down on the end of the stick when balancing the weight of the bow is required, such as when playing in the lower half of the bow, especially near the frog.
The index finger controls the bow attack, accents etc, and the part used is basically that half of the finger nearer the hand.
The back of the hand is flat, and level with the back of the wrist. The index and little fingers should control the balance of the bow without the hand rotating about the wrist, the fingers acting independently of any such rotation. This position ensures that the flat of the hair is in contact with the string, thus helping achive a strong tone. Note that the bow is not angled away from the player toward the fingerboard (as it is in some other styles).
The hold is relaxed, secure (as I have mentioned above), and strong, because the bow is not being held and controlled by the distal ends or tips of those three fingers but by stronger parts closer to the hand.
I use substantially the same bow hold when playing the cello.
I love it... I know you as always promoting the same ~ relaxation, but my curiosity got the better of me. I like the description, thanks, much appreciated... Now I have to find some way to sneak into a session where you frequent, have a pint and check it out...
incredibow
incredibow
Just reporting back. As a result of a discussion a while ago, i bought a high tension incredibow. It arrived yesterday. Although an hour so of playing isnt much, i am delighted with it. It is very light, draws a clear rich and full tone, seems sensitive and responsive. We have been a bit busy so havnt had too much time to use it, we had a baby girl yesterday too!
I would recomend them, they are a bit different but not expensive and fun. It will take a while to seriously compare it with our other bows but first impressions are favourable,
Any one else here any experiance with them?
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: incredibow
Congrats jig on the new instrument of noise!!! I'm sure she will sing more sweetly as time flies...
& best of luck with the new bow too...
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow
WOW! ~ I just realized, you're in your mid 40's and have a new baby! I'll light a candle for you... I hope you have previous experience with diapers. Just remember to sing or hum or lilt as you do it, and don't breath through your nose...
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
The child is already blessed with live music in the house...
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow
plenty of experiance
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: incredibow
You got me grinning from ear to ear... I had only a small figment of worry there... You must be in heaven, a new child and a new bow. What next ~ a new fiddle? You know you have my best wishes... It reverted me to the 60's and the first word that came out, whispered and hopefully not overheard, was "cool!"...not about the bow.
I hope sometime to get a chance to own one of those incredibows and give it a try, someday. I'll have to settle for just that, we are beyond the new birth stage...
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow ~ adding a few links
The Home of Incredibow ~
http://www.incredibow.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Incredibow/
Discussion: Incredibow
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/4296
Discussion: The "Incredibow"
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by donnchad
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/3958
Discussion: Incredibow cleaning?
# Posted on May 26th 2005 by celticrichie
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/6725
Discussion: Incredibows
# Posted on September 6th 2006 by Geoff Pollitt
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11106
Discussion: Incredibow problem
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by Geoff Pollitt
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/15114
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow and incredibabies
Congrats Jig. As a 40 something parent of a one year old who is trying to slap the keys as I type I know you are in for a lot of fun. Our's dances when we play. It's lovely.
I bought a featherweight no-frills incredibow for my partner's birthday present at the start of the week. She's not had much time to play it either but first impressions are all favourable. She says it's light, responsive, easy to play and the tone it produces is really good. Her other bows feel so 'last century'! Well done to the folks at Serenity Mountain, USA who shipped the bow to us in the UK in less than two weeks.
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by bodatcha
Re: incredibow
Congratulations on the baby girl, Mr. Jig! Best wishes to her mother as well.
I hear so many good things about the incredibow, and with Christmas upon us, perhaps I should start dropping hints to my wife...
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by fidkid
Re: incredibow
I'm looking for a new bow at the moment, having been told recently by a violinist/fiddler friend with a few decades of playing and teaching experience, that the one I have (which was in the case with the fiddle when I was given it) is "a crap bow". I was heartened to hear this, as I know now that it's not *only* my playing that's at fault. On the other hand, it means I have to spend money - I know there are good bows (good enough for me, that is) around that are within my budget, but I want to be sure I am not overpaying.
I have considered a carbon fibre bow before. But another friend of mine, a fiddler and violin maker (that is to say, he plays traditional 'fiddle' but builds 'violins' for the classical market - well, actually, not for any *market* exactly, but that's another story) uses one and has found that it is strongly affected by atmospheric conditions - much more so than wooden bows. At times, he finds that it is impossible to get the hair up to tension within the adjustment range of the frog, whilst at other times it is fine.
It seems counterintuitive that a carbon fibre bow should be *more* affected by humidity than a wooden one, carbon being non-hygroscopic - a carbon fibre stick ought to be unaffected by just about anything other than the pull of the hair. However, my speculation is that the inertia of the carbon is precisely where the problem lies. With a wooden bow, variation in humidity causes the hair to slacken or tighten, but this is counteracted by the movement of the wood, which lengthens and shortens fractionally, concurrently with the hair.
Does this sound plausible? Is it a reason not to buy a carbon fibre bow? Are the better quality carbon fibre bows somehow less susceptible to this problem?
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: incredibow
Not a reason!
Carbon fibre bows are much, much better than wood for extreme weather conditions. For 11+ weeks in the summer in Wisconsin I have an outdoor gig, which can mean over 100F + 100% humidity. A wood bow would just... die. I bought a carbon fibre bow specifically to play these sorts of shows. I own a Coda Conservatory bow, and am very pleased with it.
T.J.
www.cdbaby.com/hullksiazek
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by reenactor
Re: incredibow
Well the incedibow i have is allways tensioned! so thats not an issue, it was a problem with a couple of cheapish carbon fibre standered design bows i have . I imagine if i sent a grand on one it would be great, but!......
I have my old bow, german octagonal, that i have used constantly for 15 yrs, however it had an accident, i repaired it ok but it sent me looking for something stronger. The other issue I have is this; I like a tight bow as i play rhythmically and need a lot of tension. This has caused many problems with not getting this tension , for a number of reasons. So the incredibow really looks like the answer to my problems.
My old fav wont be neglected i think but.....
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: incredibow
Congratulations on the baby!
I bought an Incredibow at the beginning of May this year, mainly because I had had some problems getting rehairs for the ordinary bows, also I thought it would be a good practice bow to leave out in the room as it has a fixed tension. The first evening I had to force myself to keep using it as it felt so strange, but since then I have used it constantly - I haven't had the old bow out of the case through a full season of festivals and sessions. The only area I found to be a problem is if you are trying to play with a quiet instrument or at the top end of the bow, it doesn't feel as responsive as a proper bow. However this may be to do with my own lack of expertise. For session dance music I find it ideal, and a lot less to worry about when you leave it on a pub table! I actually think I get a better tone with this than the other bows. It doesn't do much for my street cred though, I have had some funny looks!
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by Lynn W
Re: incredibow
NameChanges, I agree with reenactor. I use a CF bow along with a couple of decent wood bows, and have no problems with it, even though it's not top of range. It's my preferred bow for most session playing.
As with all bows, it's normal for the hairs to go slightly slack after a few minutes playing and so to need tightening. This is due to warming up of the hair due to friction in playing, and probably also atmospheric changes of temperature and humidity.
Very odd about the behaviour of that CF bow you referred to. I should have thought a violin maker would have been able to sort it out. I know they may not specifically be skilled in bow making, but they are trained to do the routine stuff of rehairing and dealing with frog problems. Sounds almost like that bow could have been made on a "Friday afternoon end-of-shift before a Bank Holiday"
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: incredibow
It feels really strange to just put it down without de-tensioning it though! Handy enough i suppose.
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: incredibow
But think of how good you'll be with all that extra practice time. Oh the time wasted tightening and loosening!
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by Kheelch
Re: incredibow
Making reenactor's link live ~ http://cdbaby.com/cd/hullksiazek
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow
On the carbon bow that acted oddly to weather changes ~ some cheap models are actually hollow, and roughly made. Maybe it is something like this and the air cavity is actually causing the problem?
With reasonable carbon bows I haven't known, as others before have mentioned, there to be a problem...
I just saw the pricing on these bows ~ WOW! again... I think I'll add it to my wish list and hope my beloved wife checks it out. Though, she is a bit shy about adding to my musical menagerie...
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow
Congratulations on the new addition(s) to the family. I adopted a baby girl at the age of 45....nothing to fear. It's a joy, but you may have to get creative with finding time to practice.
Blessings to you and yours!
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by nofrets
Re: incredibow
the Incedibow is not a carbon fibre bow.
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by dafydd
Re: incredibow
Incredibow
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by dafydd
Re: incredibow
Quick plug - if you're in the UK look at http://tinyurl.com/3x39oe and if there's one you want to try and it's in stock, let us know - pay before 1500 and you'll have it in your hands the next working day. Then take 60 days to try it out and if you don't like it, you can return it to us for a refund.
How about that?
We were the first major UK importers. Ours cost slightly more than buying them from Ed but then we have to be honest and pay import duty - you may get away with it if you go direct!
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: incredibow
You've got a new baby girl? Good man, well done. Tis a grand thing. Nae animosity and congratulations. (do your missus a favour and give the internet a rest)
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by ...
Re: incredibow ~ Carbon Fiber!
Dafydd, take note ~ from their website:
Essential information about Incredibows:
1. We only make bows using Carbon Fiber sticks. We use NO WOOD in any bows, although we can make them LOOK like wood. (See Colors page for options)
2. We use NO Horsehair. ALL the "hair" is made of tough polymer filament designed to grab the strings well (when rosined) and last literally for YEARS! Bow AND hair is warranted to last a minimum of three years. Some musicians have regularly used the same Incredibow for four years now, without loss of even one hair! WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG THIS BOW WILL LAST WITH PROPER CARE.
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow
I've had two Incredibows for four years now and not one hair has broken.
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by dafydd
Re: incredibow
I've got incredibows and have never broken a hair. One is particularly well used and due for a batth!!
Got one of the Hi-tension ones earlier this year and love it - I've dropped the hint to my husband that I'd like another hi-tension one for Christmas!!
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by Tarrantella
Re: incredibow
What do you need more than one for... are you using some kind of twin bow technique that I don't know about?
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by Barn Owl
Re: incredibow
I've got one of their feather-light Incredibows, and I've been using it for over a year without any problems. No broken hairs. I only rosin it about once a month!
I've used it everywhere from a cold room in a barn (~50F) to outdoor festivals in the middle of summer 95F+ w/100% humidity and have never been let down.
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by KeepFiddlin'
Re: incredibow
The only negative comment we had about the bow in use was from one person who toured extensively and at one gig it was so windy on stage that the rosin blew off (mind you, it also blew the bow off the stage at one point!).
Probably still more bomb-proof than the equivalent wooden bows.
We have several examples where people have bought them as a second bow and ended up using them as their bow of choice almost exclusively.
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: incredibow
Last year I was playing in an open bandstand at a gig near the coast on a very windy day. The bow hair was getting a lot of aerodynamic lift from the wind (due to its flat, thin shape) and so I changed to a heavier viola bow, which made bowing more manageable. Anyway, I have a bow hold such that the bow being blown or falling from my hand would be virtually impossible.
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: incredibow
Now you've perked my interest LH, the iron grip bow hold, that I gotta see...
# Posted on December 7th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: incredibow
Ceolachan, there's no iron grip. It's not a "grip", it's a relaxed, but strong, hold.
The bow stick lies more or less under the second joint (counting from the finger tip towards the hand) of each of the 1st (index), 2nd and 3rd fingers. The two distal phalanges (i.e. furthest from the hand) of each of those fingers fall down from the stick to the bow hairs and are relaxed. They're not doing anything, not even touching the bow. I just make sure I don't touch the bow hairs with those fingers (that could affect the sound).
The thumb is always bent and its distal phalange lies between the hairs and that leather sleeve on the stick between the metal winding and the frog. The tip of my thumb can easily touch the pad of the 2nd of 3rd finger. Therein lies the bow security; the stick is totally enclosed in one region by the thumb and those three fingers.
The little finger (4th) will be bent and can easily bear down on the end of the stick when balancing the weight of the bow is required, such as when playing in the lower half of the bow, especially near the frog.
The index finger controls the bow attack, accents etc, and the part used is basically that half of the finger nearer the hand.
The back of the hand is flat, and level with the back of the wrist. The index and little fingers should control the balance of the bow without the hand rotating about the wrist, the fingers acting independently of any such rotation. This position ensures that the flat of the hair is in contact with the string, thus helping achive a strong tone. Note that the bow is not angled away from the player toward the fingerboard (as it is in some other styles).
The hold is relaxed, secure (as I have mentioned above), and strong, because the bow is not being held and controlled by the distal ends or tips of those three fingers but by stronger parts closer to the hand.
I use substantially the same bow hold when playing the cello.
# Posted on December 8th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: incredibow
I love it... I know you as always promoting the same ~ relaxation, but my curiosity got the better of me. I like the description, thanks, much appreciated... Now I have to find some way to sneak into a session where you frequent, have a pint and check it out...
# Posted on December 8th 2007 by ceolachan