I've been trying to get triplets first attempt for a while now and am nearly there. This is what I'm doing:
1. Holding the pic not too firmly
2. Not keeping the arm too tense
3. Using the wrist mainly for movement
4. Keeping the pic parallel and vertical with the strings
I rest my little finger on the skin very lightly and slide it across the skin when moving across the strings to give a reference point. I have just made a great breakthrough by putting a little ground chalk under the little finger so there's no resistance as I slide across as it moves when doing a triplet.
Anyone got any tips. Thanks
Although I have no banjo experience, and with reference to your point 4. above,I find it easier for mando etc and guitar to angle the pick slightly rather than keep it parallel with strings. It allows the pick to "ride" over the strings smoothly, as it presents a curved edge to the string rather than a flat surface. Might be worth a try....
Keith
Triplets will eventually come. There are several ways to do them, but the main things to keep in mind is 1) relax, 2) hold the pick in a relaxed manner, 3) relax.
It helps to have someone help you with them and to watch others doing triplets. What really helps, though, is to learn to use them in context with the music. Then you can see how to integrate the ornament and as a result your triplets will flow more naturally and at a reasonable speed. (Session speeds are not reasonable.)
There seem to be a number of different approaches, combinations of light pick or heavy pick, light strings or heavy strings. I use heavy strings, 12-40 with a 1mm heavy pick. This is probably the hardest approach, however the sound comes from the string, not the pick, i can be sure that there is no leeway for rhythmic errors, it works or it doesnt! The grip needs to be firm, not relaxed, without this firm grip the techniques would not work.
Playing the banjo at session speed is hard, whatever approach is taken[ depending on the session i suppose!] however this aproach i describe works for me.
good luck,
ps slight angular approach as described in other posts.
Also try to keep the pick from sinking too deep on the string 1-2 mm is plenty.
I struggled with triplets on banjo for years and finally got them right-ish (if a bit slow) by initially using a longer more pointed pick of lighter gauge (about 0.5mm) than I had been used to. I began by playing each note before, during and after the triplets very deliberately and at a snail's pace, making a pronounced downward movement (toward the head) with each stroke of the pick, with movement from both elbow and wrist. All I can say is that it worked for me although clearly it's the opposite of Jig's experience.
I can execute some triplets cleanly in some reels at "session speed" - often a locally determined value and in my case about 100 for reels at one session, about 120 at another.
I've found (probably not the first one to do so) that playing a triplet can speed up the tune and it takes a conscious effort of will on my part to keep the pace of the triplet very deliberate, rather than to allow it to become a rapid and uncontrolled automatic reflex action which is faster than it should be, shortening the note it replaces.
I there's a reel I want to play with ornamentaion I try to kick it off myself at a modest pace and rely on the courtesy of other players not to run away with it.
More challenging to play well at speed are graced triplets which I believe are also known as short rolls, featuring in both reels and jigs. They require four quick notes in a slightly uneven stream, fitting into just about the same space as an ordinary triplet (or group of three quarter notes in the case of a jig). I'm still working on them for banjo although they're not too hard on box.
I've filmed Angelina Carberry, John Carty, Ken Fleming, Mick Moloney, Roger Landes, and Tom Hall. In addition I have observed Charlie Piggott, Gerry O'Connor and Enda Scahill up (very ) close and they all use a relaxed grip. The problem with a tight firm grip on the plectrum is that it causes the muscles that move the wrist to oppose each other and slows down the action. In addtion, if you use a strong plectrum grip you can't use the finger triplet that Mick and Roger advocate for basically the same reasons.
Something similar is true with thicker plectra. You can use a 1 mm pick to play the banjo, but my experience is that the thicker the pick, the more relaxed you have to be. I don't like the sound that a thick pick imparts on my banjos (I use a Dunlop .63 nylon) but I use a 1.5 mm pick on my mandolin and a 5 mm pick on my OM and am able to make all the triplets without problems. I pick the thicker plectra for double coursed instruments because they bring out the tone better.
That being said, about half of my triplets are wrist triplets and the other half the McTwist style. the tone is subtly different, but mostly I use the different styles without thinking about what I am doing.
Yes you can use a stronger grip and a thicker pick to do triplets. It requires more precision and practice and I am not as good with that style, preferring what I do at this point. The techniques are not exclusive but they are somewhat dissonant so you will have a hard time going from one to the other.
The definition of relaxed vs firm is somewhat sketchy
I find a crucial aspect is the depth the pick hits the string. The less contact the better , within reason.
I tried all the various possibilitys[ bar 5mm picks!] o string guage and picks, I found the lighter picks and strings did not suit me. I found that , playing mandolin, guitar and banjo,that it was, in a way, simpler for me to use the same pick for all, to use high tension heavy string, i use 12 for the mandolin and guitar as well. i culd'nt say how many years it took me to achieve session speed triplets on these instruments, it was a natural progression. I simply break anything less than a 10 with ease!
There are interesting methods to pick a string, from the elbow, wrist or fingers, plus a completely different method involving a twist of the wrist as opposed to up/down movement. I regret not aving learnt the twist[ key turning] method when i started but it is the method i am informed by a reliable authority that is 'best'. I tend to play from the wrist though i pent a while attempting to play from the elbow, which i belive is superior to my method. I imagine the finger vsn is suited to lighter picks/strings.
What i suggest is that experiments are made with each different method /pick/string etc to find the best for you.
Also there is the grip, I tend owards two fingers opposite the thumb for solidity, an essential aspect of my style, though i would also have used the BegF method above at times, and also one finger and thumb. However when the pressure is on i just use my normal grip.
I would have developed my style from aiming to get volume from Guitar/ mandolin as i would havebeen playing these instruments 15 / 10yrs longer than the banjo which i have played since '91, allthough not constantly.I have recently got a new Weyman short neck so am 'back in the saddle' so to speak and enjoying the triplets! Triplet mad!
so heres something, been think ing about this. Try taking a simple tune slowly and playing two 1/16th notes instead of one 1/8th. This is harder then triplets at speed, so when you can manage this triplets will be easier. A triplet is 3 note in the space of a 1/4 note.
triplets on the banjo
triplets on the banjo
I've been trying to get triplets first attempt for a while now and am nearly there. This is what I'm doing:
1. Holding the pic not too firmly
2. Not keeping the arm too tense
3. Using the wrist mainly for movement
4. Keeping the pic parallel and vertical with the strings
I rest my little finger on the skin very lightly and slide it across the skin when moving across the strings to give a reference point. I have just made a great breakthrough by putting a little ground chalk under the little finger so there's no resistance as I slide across as it moves when doing a triplet.
Anyone got any tips. Thanks
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Sandy Holdom
Re: triplets on the banjo
Although I have no banjo experience, and with reference to your point 4. above,I find it easier for mando etc and guitar to angle the pick slightly rather than keep it parallel with strings. It allows the pick to "ride" over the strings smoothly, as it presents a curved edge to the string rather than a flat surface. Might be worth a try....
Keith
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by ocarolan
Re: triplets on the banjo
Thanks Keith, I'll try that Sandy
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Sandy Holdom
Re: triplets on the banjo
Iv'e also been working on triplets. Keith's advice on the pick angle seems the usual approach.
I found plenty of stuff, including videos, on the internet. Here's some links:
This is where I found an instruction video for 'triplets' (shown here on mandolin)
http://www.mikekeyes.com-a.googlepages.com/Rogerteachestripletstotheclass.mov
Lots of Banjo interest here - good mp3 'clips' - and instuction stuff (scroll down near bottom list)
http://www.coyotebanjo.com/music.html
And here: http://www.mikekeyes.com-a.googlepages.com/irishtenorbanjo
And following is where I got some 'pick hold' info from, as well as triplets. (note the links tothe video clips )
Beginning Tenor Banjo - right hand / pick hold: http://www.banjosessions.com/aug05/righthand.html
Tenor Banjo -Left hand scales: http://www.banjosessions.com/jun05/woodchoppers.html
Tenor Banjo - Playing triplets: http://www.banjosessions.com/dec05/triplets.html
Tenor Banjo - Playing the 'high B': http://www.banjosessions.com/aug06/highb.html
Tenor Banjo - Ornamentation: http://www.banjosessions.com/aug04/ornamentation.html
I can now do them fine -at home -playing at a steady speed, but in a session -at speed, not so easy.
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Col Arco
Re: triplets on the banjo
To steal from my friend Murphy Hicks Henry: The answer is practice, no matter what the question. (http://www.murphymethod.com/askmurphy.cfm)
Triplets will eventually come. There are several ways to do them, but the main things to keep in mind is 1) relax, 2) hold the pick in a relaxed manner, 3) relax.
It helps to have someone help you with them and to watch others doing triplets. What really helps, though, is to learn to use them in context with the music. Then you can see how to integrate the ornament and as a result your triplets will flow more naturally and at a reasonable speed. (Session speeds are not reasonable.)
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: triplets on the banjo
Triplets may be desirable, but they are not compulsory
especially, as Mike hints at, in a fast noisy session environment
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Bren
Re: triplets on the banjo
There seem to be a number of different approaches, combinations of light pick or heavy pick, light strings or heavy strings. I use heavy strings, 12-40 with a 1mm heavy pick. This is probably the hardest approach, however the sound comes from the string, not the pick, i can be sure that there is no leeway for rhythmic errors, it works or it doesnt! The grip needs to be firm, not relaxed, without this firm grip the techniques would not work.
Playing the banjo at session speed is hard, whatever approach is taken[ depending on the session i suppose!] however this aproach i describe works for me.
good luck,
ps slight angular approach as described in other posts.
Also try to keep the pick from sinking too deep on the string 1-2 mm is plenty.
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: triplets on the banjo
I struggled with triplets on banjo for years and finally got them right-ish (if a bit slow) by initially using a longer more pointed pick of lighter gauge (about 0.5mm) than I had been used to. I began by playing each note before, during and after the triplets very deliberately and at a snail's pace, making a pronounced downward movement (toward the head) with each stroke of the pick, with movement from both elbow and wrist. All I can say is that it worked for me although clearly it's the opposite of Jig's experience.
I can execute some triplets cleanly in some reels at "session speed" - often a locally determined value and in my case about 100 for reels at one session, about 120 at another.
I've found (probably not the first one to do so) that playing a triplet can speed up the tune and it takes a conscious effort of will on my part to keep the pace of the triplet very deliberate, rather than to allow it to become a rapid and uncontrolled automatic reflex action which is faster than it should be, shortening the note it replaces.
I there's a reel I want to play with ornamentaion I try to kick it off myself at a modest pace and rely on the courtesy of other players not to run away with it.
More challenging to play well at speed are graced triplets which I believe are also known as short rolls, featuring in both reels and jigs. They require four quick notes in a slightly uneven stream, fitting into just about the same space as an ordinary triplet (or group of three quarter notes in the case of a jig). I'm still working on them for banjo although they're not too hard on box.
Good luck
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: triplets on the banjo
I've filmed Angelina Carberry, John Carty, Ken Fleming, Mick Moloney, Roger Landes, and Tom Hall. In addition I have observed Charlie Piggott, Gerry O'Connor and Enda Scahill up (very ) close and they all use a relaxed grip. The problem with a tight firm grip on the plectrum is that it causes the muscles that move the wrist to oppose each other and slows down the action. In addtion, if you use a strong plectrum grip you can't use the finger triplet that Mick and Roger advocate for basically the same reasons.
Something similar is true with thicker plectra. You can use a 1 mm pick to play the banjo, but my experience is that the thicker the pick, the more relaxed you have to be. I don't like the sound that a thick pick imparts on my banjos (I use a Dunlop .63 nylon) but I use a 1.5 mm pick on my mandolin and a 5 mm pick on my OM and am able to make all the triplets without problems. I pick the thicker plectra for double coursed instruments because they bring out the tone better.
That being said, about half of my triplets are wrist triplets and the other half the McTwist style. the tone is subtly different, but mostly I use the different styles without thinking about what I am doing.
Yes you can use a stronger grip and a thicker pick to do triplets. It requires more precision and practice and I am not as good with that style, preferring what I do at this point. The techniques are not exclusive but they are somewhat dissonant so you will have a hard time going from one to the other.
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: triplets on the banjo
" a 5 mm pick on my OM"
Surely that's a typo, Mike?
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: triplets on the banjo
No, I use a Dugain gypsy jazz plectra on my OM. That is what sounded best, what can I say?
Mike Keyes
http://www.mandolinsessions.com (a picture of my OM is there in the archives.)
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: triplets on the banjo
Here is a picture of my OM (and me, if you look closely you can see the thick plectrum.) http://mandolinsessions.com/apr07/Keyes.html
MJK
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: triplets on the banjo
I don't koow how yuu would play triplefs at any decent speed
without a relaxed grip.
Try your index trigger finger curled in so that it's he top part is parrallel under your thumb (by top part I mean from nail to your first joint)
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by BegF
Re: triplets on the banjo
"I don't koow how yuu would play triplefs" -- The keyboard has been drinking not me !!!!
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by BegF
Re: triplets on the banjo
The definition of relaxed vs firm is somewhat sketchy
I find a crucial aspect is the depth the pick hits the string. The less contact the better , within reason.
I tried all the various possibilitys[ bar 5mm picks!] o string guage and picks, I found the lighter picks and strings did not suit me. I found that , playing mandolin, guitar and banjo,that it was, in a way, simpler for me to use the same pick for all, to use high tension heavy string, i use 12 for the mandolin and guitar as well. i culd'nt say how many years it took me to achieve session speed triplets on these instruments, it was a natural progression. I simply break anything less than a 10 with ease!
There are interesting methods to pick a string, from the elbow, wrist or fingers, plus a completely different method involving a twist of the wrist as opposed to up/down movement. I regret not aving learnt the twist[ key turning] method when i started but it is the method i am informed by a reliable authority that is 'best'. I tend to play from the wrist though i pent a while attempting to play from the elbow, which i belive is superior to my method. I imagine the finger vsn is suited to lighter picks/strings.
What i suggest is that experiments are made with each different method /pick/string etc to find the best for you.
Also there is the grip, I tend owards two fingers opposite the thumb for solidity, an essential aspect of my style, though i would also have used the BegF method above at times, and also one finger and thumb. However when the pressure is on i just use my normal grip.
I would have developed my style from aiming to get volume from Guitar/ mandolin as i would havebeen playing these instruments 15 / 10yrs longer than the banjo which i have played since '91, allthough not constantly.I have recently got a new Weyman short neck so am 'back in the saddle' so to speak and enjoying the triplets! Triplet mad!
# Posted on December 5th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: triplets on the banjo
so heres something, been think ing about this. Try taking a simple tune slowly and playing two 1/16th notes instead of one 1/8th. This is harder then triplets at speed, so when you can manage this triplets will be easier. A triplet is 3 note in the space of a 1/4 note.
# Posted on December 10th 2007 by piobagusfidil