I have one, a Vega from about 1935. It sounds like a banjo but plays like a mandolin. I love it, but unfortunately, it isn't playable --- it needs some work; the action is very high. One of these days, I'll get it fixed and get back to playing it. I bought it mainly because I love the sound, but also because I thought it would help me pay more attention to chords --- but I found myself playing melody instead of chords.
Are you thinking about buying one? I was surprised to read once that a fiddle player's likeliest choice of a second instrument was a mandolin. I would have thought a viola, since I'm always reaching for that low F# below the G that isn't there on the fiddle. Now that I have a viola, I'm reaching for the B below the C . . . . there's always a lower note that isn't there unless you tune down. Anyway, I guess a mandolin (or mandolin banjo) really is a likely second instrument for a fiddle player.
Funny you should mention one - I'm going to be getting on eback to a playable condition this Sunday for a bit of fun. I played around with it a while back beofre I played anything - didn't even know how to tune it. But I'm looking forward to eharing it played properly.
They can sound quite funny - they used alot of them back in the 20's and 30's for irish music.
But most people I know of would consider them a novelty rather than a "real" instrument for Irish Traditional Music. The sharp, cutting sound is really a session wacker, but one could say that a wet tuned accordion or a set of uilleann would be the same.
But back to the Q: If you play it with lots of triplets the overall sound will be a bit like a mandolin, but if played with light gauge strings and no triplets, it will sound like a (extremely, almost apocalyptically high pitched) banjo.
I bought mine to be able to hear what I played at the session, my mandolin was completely swamped. As Lars says it is a bit powerful in the higher notes but has no real sustain. When played at home or with few people I always use a mute and then it's quite like a mandolin, the action is just the same.
"they used a lot of them back in the 20's and 30's for Irish music"
The reason you don't hear them too much nowadays is that most people hate the sound, lacking the roundness of a good banjo, and the mellow tone of a mandolin.
You will find that they are tolerated (at best) by kind hearted musicians, but hated by anyone who appreciates the subtleties of the music.
Useful enough as a badminton bat I imagine!
I purchased one from e-Bay in 2004. It was made by George Houghton and Sons under the mass production title "Melody Major" from around the 1920's. It is very playable. It has a vellum skin and is solidly built. There is very little warping of the neck. The top A tuning peg was slightly bent making that string slightly harder to tune so I replaced both original machine heads. This required filing the eight holes in the headstock to enlarge them slightly.! When I fitted a set of new strings the bass (G) was much thicker than the string original fitted and it forced the corner of the nut to snap off. The original nut was made of a hard white plastic material. I have made a new nut out of bone (this was quite difficult). The instrument is settling down again after the various repairs and tinkerings. I am still experimenting with string thicknesses, finding very thick wound strings sound too metallic. eBay is a bit of a gamble but you can be lucky
I guess it's best use is for brisk tunes in noisy sessions when the mandolin lacks a little punch - as you might expect it is hopeless for slow airs
I found that having a "Banjolin" was useful in large and loud sessions where a mandolin would have been completely swallowed up. However, during the times when it was clearly too abrasive within the context of the other instruments, I knew enough to put it away. I respectfully disagree somewhat with Backer's take on it - played well, with proper deference to dynamics, it can be a nice voice in any session.
The trick is finding one that can stay in tune for more than three tunes!
I play airs, O'Carolan stuff and back songs and stuff on the mandolin. However most sessions are noisy, and the banjo-mandolin enables you to hear yourself, and be heard. As with all instruments they vary, but the one I was using recently had a nice sound.
However, the mandolin, in my opinion, will always be better for airs, when noise is not a factor.
Banjo-mandolins, like all banjos, require good setup. Many of the early B-Ms had small heads, especially the English ones, and that means that you have a very trebly sound. (Which I equate to the criticism of Joan Baez' voice: "Like sticking knitting needles in your ears.")
B-Ms with wider heads can have more complexity and mellowness depending on how you tweak the head, the bridge you use, the tailpiece pressure, and the strings. Your selection of plectrum will also have an effect on the sound.
A B-M that is not well set up will sound like crap. I suggest using light (34-09) strings, a moderate tensioned head, a thicker bridge - all maple, and a .70-.80 mm pick to start. Then you can play around with the parameters from that point until you are satisfied with the sound.
Also, a well made BM (Vega, Weymann, Bacon, etc.) will sound better than a no-name instrument. Just like all other banjo creatures.
I had a Melody Major (see Edgar Bolton above) which I bought in London around 1970 to play in a band which included melodeon, fiddle, and whistle. It held its own just fine.
Cost me twelve pounds, though.
I have a Gibson BM. I'm not sure of the model but it's the "trapdoor" version. It's quite loud and doesn't sound too badly when strung up correctly but at the moment the strings are ancient and there's a very tight sound. I could recommend the recordings of John McKenna who did a lot of duets with BM player Michael Gaffney in the 1920s.
My personal point of view if that if you have a good banjo mandolin, then it can sound fine. But like any other instrument, if its a bad one, you'll get dirty looks. The only thing with a BM is that people will have it a prejudice towards just like the piano accordion and even (in some places) the tenor banjo but that's just the way things are.
banjo mandolin
banjo mandolin
what does one sound like, more like a banjo or mandolin?
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by stevequincy
Re: banjo mandolin
I have one, a Vega from about 1935. It sounds like a banjo but plays like a mandolin. I love it, but unfortunately, it isn't playable --- it needs some work; the action is very high. One of these days, I'll get it fixed and get back to playing it. I bought it mainly because I love the sound, but also because I thought it would help me pay more attention to chords --- but I found myself playing melody instead of chords.
Are you thinking about buying one? I was surprised to read once that a fiddle player's likeliest choice of a second instrument was a mandolin. I would have thought a viola, since I'm always reaching for that low F# below the G that isn't there on the fiddle. Now that I have a viola, I'm reaching for the B below the C . . . . there's always a lower note that isn't there unless you tune down. Anyway, I guess a mandolin (or mandolin banjo) really is a likely second instrument for a fiddle player.
Best,
Carol
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by carolsviolin
Re: banjo mandolin
Funny you should mention one - I'm going to be getting on eback to a playable condition this Sunday for a bit of fun. I played around with it a while back beofre I played anything - didn't even know how to tune it. But I'm looking forward to eharing it played properly.
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by camwebby
Re: banjo mandolin
They can sound quite funny - they used alot of them back in the 20's and 30's for irish music.
But most people I know of would consider them a novelty rather than a "real" instrument for Irish Traditional Music. The sharp, cutting sound is really a session wacker, but one could say that a wet tuned accordion or a set of uilleann would be the same.
But back to the Q: If you play it with lots of triplets the overall sound will be a bit like a mandolin, but if played with light gauge strings and no triplets, it will sound like a (extremely, almost apocalyptically high pitched) banjo.
//Lars
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Larshansen
Re: banjo mandolin
I bought mine to be able to hear what I played at the session, my mandolin was completely swamped. As Lars says it is a bit powerful in the higher notes but has no real sustain. When played at home or with few people I always use a mute and then it's quite like a mandolin, the action is just the same.
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Lurcherjohn
Re: banjo mandolin
"they used a lot of them back in the 20's and 30's for Irish music"
The reason you don't hear them too much nowadays is that most people hate the sound, lacking the roundness of a good banjo, and the mellow tone of a mandolin.
You will find that they are tolerated (at best) by kind hearted musicians, but hated by anyone who appreciates the subtleties of the music.
Useful enough as a badminton bat I imagine!
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Backer
Re: banjo mandolin
I purchased one from e-Bay in 2004. It was made by George Houghton and Sons under the mass production title "Melody Major" from around the 1920's. It is very playable. It has a vellum skin and is solidly built. There is very little warping of the neck. The top A tuning peg was slightly bent making that string slightly harder to tune so I replaced both original machine heads. This required filing the eight holes in the headstock to enlarge them slightly.! When I fitted a set of new strings the bass (G) was much thicker than the string original fitted and it forced the corner of the nut to snap off. The original nut was made of a hard white plastic material. I have made a new nut out of bone (this was quite difficult). The instrument is settling down again after the various repairs and tinkerings. I am still experimenting with string thicknesses, finding very thick wound strings sound too metallic. eBay is a bit of a gamble but you can be lucky
I guess it's best use is for brisk tunes in noisy sessions when the mandolin lacks a little punch - as you might expect it is hopeless for slow airs
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Edgar Bolton
Re: banjo mandolin
I found that having a "Banjolin" was useful in large and loud sessions where a mandolin would have been completely swallowed up. However, during the times when it was clearly too abrasive within the context of the other instruments, I knew enough to put it away. I respectfully disagree somewhat with Backer's take on it - played well, with proper deference to dynamics, it can be a nice voice in any session.
The trick is finding one that can stay in tune for more than three tunes!
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: banjo mandolin
I play airs, O'Carolan stuff and back songs and stuff on the mandolin. However most sessions are noisy, and the banjo-mandolin enables you to hear yourself, and be heard. As with all instruments they vary, but the one I was using recently had a nice sound.
However, the mandolin, in my opinion, will always be better for airs, when noise is not a factor.
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: banjo mandolin
Banjo-mandolins, like all banjos, require good setup. Many of the early B-Ms had small heads, especially the English ones, and that means that you have a very trebly sound. (Which I equate to the criticism of Joan Baez' voice: "Like sticking knitting needles in your ears.")
B-Ms with wider heads can have more complexity and mellowness depending on how you tweak the head, the bridge you use, the tailpiece pressure, and the strings. Your selection of plectrum will also have an effect on the sound.
A B-M that is not well set up will sound like crap. I suggest using light (34-09) strings, a moderate tensioned head, a thicker bridge - all maple, and a .70-.80 mm pick to start. Then you can play around with the parameters from that point until you are satisfied with the sound.
Also, a well made BM (Vega, Weymann, Bacon, etc.) will sound better than a no-name instrument. Just like all other banjo creatures.
MIke Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on December 4th 2007 by mikeyes
Re: banjo mandolin
I had a Melody Major (see Edgar Bolton above) which I bought in London around 1970 to play in a band which included melodeon, fiddle, and whistle. It held its own just fine.
Cost me twelve pounds, though.
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by oldstrings
Re: banjo mandolin
I have a Gibson BM. I'm not sure of the model but it's the "trapdoor" version. It's quite loud and doesn't sound too badly when strung up correctly but at the moment the strings are ancient and there's a very tight sound. I could recommend the recordings of John McKenna who did a lot of duets with BM player Michael Gaffney in the 1920s.
My personal point of view if that if you have a good banjo mandolin, then it can sound fine. But like any other instrument, if its a bad one, you'll get dirty looks. The only thing with a BM is that people will have it a prejudice towards just like the piano accordion and even (in some places) the tenor banjo but that's just the way things are.
# Posted on December 6th 2007 by PaddyCmusic
Re: banjo mandolin
There was one bloke in Belfast played a large BM for years and was excellent. I think he still does, or did he sell out and get a banjo?
# Posted on December 8th 2007 by bodhran bliss