I regularly see arguments between accordion players about which tuning is best for ITM, e.g. C#/D for dance music, B/C for flowing music, etc.. A good piano accordion player with a sense for Irish Traditional music can play anything that any player of a small button accordion who has a similar sense of ITM can and much more. It can be played in any key, any tempo, with any amount of punch wherever it is desired. Stops and voices can be used for any reed combination or no combination. Since no accordion is really a traditional Irish instrument, why isn't the piano accordion the most popular accordion in ITM?
It's not the most popular instrument because all the reeds, stops, basses and versatility of a box as convenient to hoist as a dining room table are unnecessary for making good traditional Irish music. It's like buying a one ton pickup truck just to carry your lunchbox to work.
Because the bisonic nature of button boxes leads to far more inflection in the music. Bellows reversals give punch to certain phrases. The piano accordion tends to produce very legato music, which doesn't really suit ITM. Of course you can use the bellows on the PA to produce the same effect, but it's harder to do consistently.
Plus button boxes are generally smaller and lighter.
And the temptation to play full chords, with a consequent drowning of other instruments, is too strong for some to overcome.
Karen Tweed has produced plenty of albums to great acclaim, but I still prefer the sound of a button box any day.
Also a fair proportion of the repertoire was written for the button box. Many of the jumps are difficult to achieve on a PA.
For many years prior to discovering the B/C I played ITM on piano. I'm fortunate to have a very good reach, but still came across some pretty tricky stuff. Some of those hard to play tunes don't even require me to move my hand when I play them on the B/C.
though there is some added "lift" to be had with bbs, i believe this has been overvalued, particulary given that b/c boxes have less "lift" than c#/ds, and b/c's are still great for itm, just smoother. the fact is that so long as those outer borders aren't crossed so you sound classical, itm accommodates a smooth, paddy carty-ish aesthetic no less than a punchy, back-and-forth aesthetic, and there is no reason why reed instruments have to be punchy. i think that jimmy keane, mirella murray, and karen tweed, are great.
my beef about PAs are the bulk and weight issues mentioned above. i actually would have preferred to play PA, but infuriatingly, the small compact ones like the old Hohner Junior 48s, are short a low note or two and i believe a high note or two in the range necessary for many irish tunes.
I think most pa players might have learned to play by taking lessons, and most pa courses are based on a combination of pop, classical, standards and schmaltzy type stuff.
WHEREAS, most button box players might have learned to play the box while playing only trad.
When pa players take up trad, they think they can play it just because they learned those other styles.
If any player of any instrument wants to master a certain type of music, that player should put a little effort into the job. The folks that say listen, listen, listen are giving good advice.
There are several young pa players featured on the Comhaltas videos that play a mean trad box. Do a search for Colin McGill, Dean Warner, or Connor McGurk. It's obvious they have put some work into their playing.
Why do people insist on learning the piano accordion when the continental chromatic button system is infinitely superior? The piano keyboard is a sensible front end for the strings and hammers of a piano, but for nothing else!
As a player of the English concertina I often wonder how much of the snobbery about which instrument tunes should/ should not be played is valid. I am not at all sure...what were the first instruments? Harp?
What about the Chromatic button accordion ?
I have played it and everybody in sessions told me it sounds good.
for me the biggest difficulty is that I can't ( don't like) play without my left hand and It is hard to find good chords on few tunes.
if tradition had been stuck to surely no kind of accordion/ melodeon would be used as these are not "original".
How about no metal strings on violins etc. Tradition can be invoked by anyone wanting to prove a point.......doesn't mean they are correct though.
Fair point Mark, but arguably the "tradition" is a process, whereas what is "traditional" is a snapshot of that progression as at a certain time. Things gradually change so to my mind there's no problem in saying, in 1900 instrument X was not traditional, but things moved on and by 2000 it had become central to the tradition.
If a tradition stops moving and becomes ossified, it starts turning into re-enactment.
Button Accordion
Button Accordion
I regularly see arguments between accordion players about which tuning is best for ITM, e.g. C#/D for dance music, B/C for flowing music, etc.. A good piano accordion player with a sense for Irish Traditional music can play anything that any player of a small button accordion who has a similar sense of ITM can and much more. It can be played in any key, any tempo, with any amount of punch wherever it is desired. Stops and voices can be used for any reed combination or no combination. Since no accordion is really a traditional Irish instrument, why isn't the piano accordion the most popular accordion in ITM?
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Stuporman
Re: Button Accordion
It's not the most popular instrument because all the reeds, stops, basses and versatility of a box as convenient to hoist as a dining room table are unnecessary for making good traditional Irish music. It's like buying a one ton pickup truck just to carry your lunchbox to work.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by ∅
Re: Button Accordion
Because the bisonic nature of button boxes leads to far more inflection in the music. Bellows reversals give punch to certain phrases. The piano accordion tends to produce very legato music, which doesn't really suit ITM. Of course you can use the bellows on the PA to produce the same effect, but it's harder to do consistently.
Plus button boxes are generally smaller and lighter.
And the temptation to play full chords, with a consequent drowning of other instruments, is too strong for some to overcome.
Karen Tweed has produced plenty of albums to great acclaim, but I still prefer the sound of a button box any day.
Eno
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: Button Accordion
Also a fair proportion of the repertoire was written for the button box. Many of the jumps are difficult to achieve on a PA.
For many years prior to discovering the B/C I played ITM on piano. I'm fortunate to have a very good reach, but still came across some pretty tricky stuff. Some of those hard to play tunes don't even require me to move my hand when I play them on the B/C.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: Button Accordion
though there is some added "lift" to be had with bbs, i believe this has been overvalued, particulary given that b/c boxes have less "lift" than c#/ds, and b/c's are still great for itm, just smoother. the fact is that so long as those outer borders aren't crossed so you sound classical, itm accommodates a smooth, paddy carty-ish aesthetic no less than a punchy, back-and-forth aesthetic, and there is no reason why reed instruments have to be punchy. i think that jimmy keane, mirella murray, and karen tweed, are great.
my beef about PAs are the bulk and weight issues mentioned above. i actually would have preferred to play PA, but infuriatingly, the small compact ones like the old Hohner Junior 48s, are short a low note or two and i believe a high note or two in the range necessary for many irish tunes.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by ceemonster
Re: Button Accordion
"why isn't the piano accordion the most popular accordion in ITM?" Good question. Why don't more piano accordion players play good ITM?
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Button Accordion
All boxes are the stoopidest instruments ever,
EVER!
There's nothing like a Jews Harp for real trad,
Oh,and an autoharp,
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by P.browne
Re: Button Accordion
I think most pa players might have learned to play by taking lessons, and most pa courses are based on a combination of pop, classical, standards and schmaltzy type stuff.
WHEREAS,
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by rogfox
Re: Button Accordion
whoops,hit the wrong button......
anyway,
WHEREAS, most button box players might have learned to play the box while playing only trad.
When pa players take up trad, they think they can play it just because they learned those other styles.
If any player of any instrument wants to master a certain type of music, that player should put a little effort into the job. The folks that say listen, listen, listen are giving good advice.
There are several young pa players featured on the Comhaltas videos that play a mean trad box. Do a search for Colin McGill, Dean Warner, or Connor McGurk. It's obvious they have put some work into their playing.
Purists, beware!!
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by rogfox
Re: Button Accordion
'Bisonic'- as in bison? Sounds more appropriate for PAs, really. Shame they are almost extinct- the bison, that is
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Here Lyeth
Re: Button Accordion
What does the dominance of the PA in Scottish music mean in this context? (Leaving the Shand Morino out of it!)
"Compare and contrast"
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Button Accordion
Why do people insist on learning the piano accordion when the continental chromatic button system is infinitely superior? The piano keyboard is a sensible front end for the strings and hammers of a piano, but for nothing else!
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Button Accordion
As a player of the English concertina I often wonder how much of the snobbery about which instrument tunes should/ should not be played is valid. I am not at all sure...what were the first instruments? Harp?
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Mark Thompson
Re: Button Accordion
What about the Chromatic button accordion ?
I have played it and everybody in sessions told me it sounds good.
for me the biggest difficulty is that I can't ( don't like) play without my left hand and It is hard to find good chords on few tunes.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by RoLuPiN
Re: Button Accordion
However logical and sensible the chromatic button layout may be the "piano" keyboard is familiar and plenty of people have some experience of it.
Why not play electronic keyboards?
Why not devise a completely new human/instrument interface?
Why not change the music completely?
Tradition
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Button Accordion
if tradition had been stuck to surely no kind of accordion/ melodeon would be used as these are not "original".
How about no metal strings on violins etc. Tradition can be invoked by anyone wanting to prove a point.......doesn't mean they are correct though.
Traditions evolve too!
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Mark Thompson
Re: Button Accordion
have you thought of the DG.
CathyCook, Plays one and can be seen,on you tube CathyCook1.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Button Accordion
Fair point Mark, but arguably the "tradition" is a process, whereas what is "traditional" is a snapshot of that progression as at a certain time. Things gradually change so to my mind there's no problem in saying, in 1900 instrument X was not traditional, but things moved on and by 2000 it had become central to the tradition.
If a tradition stops moving and becomes ossified, it starts turning into re-enactment.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by TomB-R
Re: Button Accordion
I agree chadmills.
# Posted on November 23rd 2007 by Mark Thompson