Can anyone help me!
In August I bought a set of Helicore medium strings. All my strings hadn't been changed in a long time so I put all new strings on (this was my first time changing strings alone, so it might have been that i did it wrong). last week (nov. 15) my d string broke, it unraveled up near the pegs. Today (nov. 21) I bought a new d string (the same kind) and was putting it on when it broke in the same way. I don't know if how I was stringing it was wrong or the Helicore strings are not right for my fiddle. If anyone has any tips for me I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Hannah
(I am 13, and have been playing fiddle for about 3-ish years)
Right, use a soft pencil and cover the grooves of the bridge and nut with the graphite powder.
Get a tin whistle . tune to the whistle. That way you are not tuning too high. maybe an electronic tuner but i would only recomend it to a real beginner so you can see as well as hear when it is in tune.
I think the string was caught at the nut so above the nut it moved, below it was stuck. = break.
I only started playing earlier this year (so I still suck and am maybe not the most knowledgeable person with regard to this stuff) but I restrung my fiddle with Helicores to get rid of the stock strings.
The D string did what you describe after about three weeks. I went through several D strings over the next few months, some lasting little more than a week. I mentioned this on another board and someone said that a couple of years ago there was a bad batch of Helicores that had this problem and they had switched from them because of it.
It seems likely that either the strings our suppliers had were old back stock or there has been another bad batch. I have since had a set of Doms that lasted fine, then I switched to Obligatos because I wanted to see if they were as good as people say (they are, at least on my fiddle). These are also still going strong after a couple of months, so as far as the problem with the Helicores is concerned, I'm inclined to blame the string rather than anything I was doing.
jig: do I draw in the grooves with the pencil, or shave some of the powder off? and thanks!
Mercurius: Thanks I think I'll try a different kind of D string, would it be bad to use different kinds of string at one time? what would people recommend?
I got a Spirocore D and it was absolutely terrible - it didn't articulate well at all and it sounded completely limp. I replaced it with a Helicore D and it's been solid on there since, sounding fantastic. Heavy tension work best, I think. They're good tough-working strings in all tunings.
Just rub the tip of the pencil in the groove.
It's possible the strings were old/defective when you bought them.
I once ordered some very expensive strings from a reputable online source and when they arrived the wrapping was all damaged and broken- it seems they had been in storage for a long time. The shop replaced them with a different make string.
"would it be bad to use different kinds of string at one time?"
In general, yes, except for the E string. You can mix certain G/D/A strings with good results, but for the most part it's a bad idea.
It's either bad strings or a problem with the nut, most likely. Other causes of breaks with new strings are tuning too high or putting the strings into the wrong pegs, but since it's the D that you're having problems with those things are unlikely.
Tuning too high is more likely to break the higher strings, and putting them into the wrong pegs is more of a problem for the G and E strings.
But it doesn't hurt to make sure that you aren't tuning too high. Be sure to always start the strings low and slowly bring them up to pitch; you don't have to go very far over pitch to break a string. But again, that's more likely to happen with the A and E, the D is usually pretty tough.
Since others are having trouble with the Helicore D, it's very likely a problem with the strings. But if you want to use different strings change the whole set, except the E if you like the one you have better. I've used Helicores a few times and never had this problem, but a bad batch is a bad batch. Helicores are usually really good strings.
keelin, I used Helicores for about 2-3 years before I got my new fiddle. I never really had any problems with them, but it's been about 5 years since I've used them. However, my sister has had the same set of Helicores on her fiddle for the past year or so and also has not had any problems. They are known for staying in tune reasonably well, so you don't have to retune them very often, except for major changes in humidity, temperature, etc.
It very well could be a manufacturing problem, but I would guess that since you don't seem to be very experienced (no offense) with changing strings, that it may just have been that you overtightened your D string a bit. It might be wise to tune a little bit at a time, giving the strings an hour or so to stretch out in between. I usually replace all the strings at the same time and then retune them every so often throughout the day. This should help avoid overtightening and breaking, because strings are often very stiff when new. Make sure the strings are not overlapping at the peg area, because they will rub on each other and fray. Also, make sure your bridge is positioned properly. If it's too far away from the fingerboard it's probably putting unnecessary tension on your strings.
Another option would be, depending on where/how you buy your strings, to have someone put them on for you. Many music stores will put on your strings for free, as long as you buy them at that store. Or have your teacher or another experienced musician do it for you.
I would try some of these suggestions and those of other people in this discussion before you give up on Helicores altogether. I wouldn't say they are my personal favorite, but they are a good, solid, dependable string that isn't as prone to changes in weather as some other strings. Hope you're able to work it out alright.
Thanks! I'll try to use all the suggestions I can.
I want to buy a spare set of strings also and since everyone seems to think Helicore strings are dependable I was wondering what your opinions are on heavy tension Helicore (just for experimentation).
And also since you can get different E strings I was wondering what you would recommend for non-squeaking E strings (I've always had a problem with that, it's probably my playing. But if there is such a thing as a kind of string thats known for being non-squeaky I would deffinitely want to know about it. In another discussion someone mentioned a "gold label pirastro")
Being Mr. Contrary in this topic, I'll remark on two points:
1) I play a COMPLETELY mixed set: Spirocore G, Helicore D, Aricore A, and Prim E (which doesn't squeak on me!), and it sounds delightfully rich and bold - in concert pitch.
2) For anything from B-flat to C to C-sharp to E-flat, a Helicore Heavy Tension across the board is keen. They play into a new tuning really well; they can take the strain of high tunings and still have the crisp tone you need for extra-slack tunings too. In D, my ears always needed to adjust to them a bit, but that's because I'm a real C-C# guy. Strong recommendation.
I had been using Dominants for a while and decided to try the Helicores because so many people seemed to like them. When I was restringing my fiddle (certainly not my first time...I do know what I am doing, as I change my strings every few months), the G string broke. Turned me off to Helicores completely. I can see the E string breaking during stringing/tuning, maybe even the A, but the G?? Went right back to the Dominants, and haven't switched since.
Like Dan the Man I have a mixed set, using Violino G, Helicore D (medium), Spirocore A (medium) and Wondertone E.
The aluminum helicore A wears out for me in 4 weeks and turns my fingertips black, but otherwise I like the helicores. The Violino G is an experiment to get easier response and a less 'choked' sound. It seems to soften the overall sound too with those other iron strings.
With this combo, the A is too loud at times, but who cares - I'm no Gavin or People's, that's for sure
The dreaded "squeaky E" (or even "silent E") is a topic that surfaces here now and then. The major cause is bowing technique, but some strings are less forgiving than others and so tend to sqeak (or go silent) on the slightest provocation.
The best E I've come across (for me) is the wound steel E that comes with Pirastro's Eudoxa set (that's wound gut G, D and A). I like the firm clear tone and playability of that E throughout the playing range so much that it is a permanent fixture on both my fiddles, no matter what the other strings are.
When stringing up a fiddle, make sure that the string on the peg never contacts the inner face of the peg box. If it does, then that is a sure recipe for unwanted string wear when the peg is being turned.
Also, you need no more than 3 or 4 windings on the peg (I'm sure I've seen this mentioned somewhere on Pirastro's website).
I second Lazyhounds recomendation without hesitation.
I am however going to try the Obligato gold plated Top E out of curiosity. Lazy , have you tried this string? Should I bother? just curious. Thanks
I don't think that any string that is out on the market right now should break irregardless of what you may think about the string. There is nothing wrong with Helicores if they work for you. Typical string breakage is a fault of the fiddle, not the string. UNless there was a "manufacturing" issue.
Jig, if I read right, you play on Eudixas. The gold plated string (of any kind) will be too shrill, I think. My favorite Eudoxa E string is a Golden Spiral, but Goldbroket works well, too. I've not tried the Eudoxa E but have a friend with one on who loves it.
"Typical string breakage is a fault of the fiddle, not the string"
Not necessarily; it can also be a result of how the player sets up the strings, as we've been discussing.
If a string breaks between the nut and the bridge earlier than you would expect in its playing life then the cause (other than an inherent fault in the string) is likely to be one or more of the following:
1) finger nails contacting the strings
2) high action (strings too high over the finger board)
3) heavy finger action, which can (but not necessarily) result from no 2
4) lack of lubrication (pencil lead) in the grooves in the nut and bridge.
Obligato gold plated E. I'm not sure about this one. It's been a while since I used that E, and it was with Obligatos. My playing has changed since then, so it's difficult to make a fair comparison with what I'm using now.. I remember with the Gold E I didn't have any problems with it squeaking and the tone seemed balanced with the other Obligato strings, but the plating eventually started to wear off.
yes Lazyhound, you are right..I guess I was assuming that the breakage was right at the nut as keelin described..in that instance, I would say the fault is the fiddle..
I have had e strings break though...when they go false quickly, they cannot be tuned to pitch, and eventually break under the stress...I feel really stupid now thinking back trying to bring that string up to pitch as it was as, under normal conditions the tension of a string tuned up to the next octave! Luckily no damage occurred to the fiddle and I was not blinded by the popping string!
Some years ago I was one of the cello tutors for a number of LEA school orchestras who met together on a Saturday morning to rehearse for a concert.
The first task of the morning for the tutors was to tune the all the stringed instruments. So I had a queue of about 30 8/9 year olds in front of me with assorted fiddles and cellos.
One little lad presented his 7/8 size fiddle for tuning, and I thought that the A was very flat so I started to bring it up to pitch and it popped long before it reached A. It was then I discovered that he'd given me a fiddle strung as a viola, (with a fiddle steel E tuned down to A, just to confuse matters), and the "A" string was in fact a D. Fortunately, the school had a vast stock of spare strings, so no harm was done.
Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Can anyone help me!
In August I bought a set of Helicore medium strings. All my strings hadn't been changed in a long time so I put all new strings on (this was my first time changing strings alone, so it might have been that i did it wrong). last week (nov. 15) my d string broke, it unraveled up near the pegs. Today (nov. 21) I bought a new d string (the same kind) and was putting it on when it broke in the same way. I don't know if how I was stringing it was wrong or the Helicore strings are not right for my fiddle. If anyone has any tips for me I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Hannah
(I am 13, and have been playing fiddle for about 3-ish years)
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by keelin
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Right, use a soft pencil and cover the grooves of the bridge and nut with the graphite powder.
Get a tin whistle . tune to the whistle. That way you are not tuning too high. maybe an electronic tuner but i would only recomend it to a real beginner so you can see as well as hear when it is in tune.
I think the string was caught at the nut so above the nut it moved, below it was stuck. = break.
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by jig
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
I don't think this is just down to you.
I only started playing earlier this year (so I still suck and am maybe not the most knowledgeable person with regard to this stuff) but I restrung my fiddle with Helicores to get rid of the stock strings.
The D string did what you describe after about three weeks. I went through several D strings over the next few months, some lasting little more than a week. I mentioned this on another board and someone said that a couple of years ago there was a bad batch of Helicores that had this problem and they had switched from them because of it.
It seems likely that either the strings our suppliers had were old back stock or there has been another bad batch. I have since had a set of Doms that lasted fine, then I switched to Obligatos because I wanted to see if they were as good as people say (they are, at least on my fiddle). These are also still going strong after a couple of months, so as far as the problem with the Helicores is concerned, I'm inclined to blame the string rather than anything I was doing.
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by Mercurius
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
jig: do I draw in the grooves with the pencil, or shave some of the powder off? and thanks!
Mercurius: Thanks I think I'll try a different kind of D string, would it be bad to use different kinds of string at one time? what would people recommend?
# Posted on November 21st 2007 by keelin
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
That's...ridiculous !_!
I got a Spirocore D and it was absolutely terrible - it didn't articulate well at all and it sounded completely limp. I replaced it with a Helicore D and it's been solid on there since, sounding fantastic. Heavy tension work best, I think. They're good tough-working strings in all tunings.
--DtM
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Just rub the tip of the pencil in the groove.
It's possible the strings were old/defective when you bought them.
I once ordered some very expensive strings from a reputable online source and when they arrived the wrapping was all damaged and broken- it seems they had been in storage for a long time. The shop replaced them with a different make string.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Murph
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
"would it be bad to use different kinds of string at one time?"
In general, yes, except for the E string. You can mix certain G/D/A strings with good results, but for the most part it's a bad idea.
It's either bad strings or a problem with the nut, most likely. Other causes of breaks with new strings are tuning too high or putting the strings into the wrong pegs, but since it's the D that you're having problems with those things are unlikely.
Tuning too high is more likely to break the higher strings, and putting them into the wrong pegs is more of a problem for the G and E strings.
But it doesn't hurt to make sure that you aren't tuning too high. Be sure to always start the strings low and slowly bring them up to pitch; you don't have to go very far over pitch to break a string. But again, that's more likely to happen with the A and E, the D is usually pretty tough.
Since others are having trouble with the Helicore D, it's very likely a problem with the strings. But if you want to use different strings change the whole set, except the E if you like the one you have better. I've used Helicores a few times and never had this problem, but a bad batch is a bad batch. Helicores are usually really good strings.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Marklar
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
keelin, I used Helicores for about 2-3 years before I got my new fiddle. I never really had any problems with them, but it's been about 5 years since I've used them. However, my sister has had the same set of Helicores on her fiddle for the past year or so and also has not had any problems. They are known for staying in tune reasonably well, so you don't have to retune them very often, except for major changes in humidity, temperature, etc.
It very well could be a manufacturing problem, but I would guess that since you don't seem to be very experienced (no offense) with changing strings, that it may just have been that you overtightened your D string a bit. It might be wise to tune a little bit at a time, giving the strings an hour or so to stretch out in between. I usually replace all the strings at the same time and then retune them every so often throughout the day. This should help avoid overtightening and breaking, because strings are often very stiff when new. Make sure the strings are not overlapping at the peg area, because they will rub on each other and fray. Also, make sure your bridge is positioned properly. If it's too far away from the fingerboard it's probably putting unnecessary tension on your strings.
Another option would be, depending on where/how you buy your strings, to have someone put them on for you. Many music stores will put on your strings for free, as long as you buy them at that store. Or have your teacher or another experienced musician do it for you.
I would try some of these suggestions and those of other people in this discussion before you give up on Helicores altogether. I wouldn't say they are my personal favorite, but they are a good, solid, dependable string that isn't as prone to changes in weather as some other strings. Hope you're able to work it out alright.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by FidDLe01
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Thanks! I'll try to use all the suggestions I can.
I want to buy a spare set of strings also and since everyone seems to think Helicore strings are dependable I was wondering what your opinions are on heavy tension Helicore (just for experimentation).
And also since you can get different E strings I was wondering what you would recommend for non-squeaking E strings (I've always had a problem with that, it's probably my playing. But if there is such a thing as a kind of string thats known for being non-squeaky I would deffinitely want to know about it. In another discussion someone mentioned a "gold label pirastro")
thanks
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by keelin
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Being Mr. Contrary in this topic, I'll remark on two points:
1) I play a COMPLETELY mixed set: Spirocore G, Helicore D, Aricore A, and Prim E (which doesn't squeak on me!), and it sounds delightfully rich and bold - in concert pitch.
2) For anything from B-flat to C to C-sharp to E-flat, a Helicore Heavy Tension across the board is keen. They play into a new tuning really well; they can take the strain of high tunings and still have the crisp tone you need for extra-slack tunings too. In D, my ears always needed to adjust to them a bit, but that's because I'm a real C-C# guy. Strong recommendation.
--DtM
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
I had been using Dominants for a while and decided to try the Helicores because so many people seemed to like them. When I was restringing my fiddle (certainly not my first time...I do know what I am doing, as I change my strings every few months), the G string broke. Turned me off to Helicores completely. I can see the E string breaking during stringing/tuning, maybe even the A, but the G?? Went right back to the Dominants, and haven't switched since.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by irishfiddler32
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Like Dan the Man I have a mixed set, using Violino G, Helicore D (medium), Spirocore A (medium) and Wondertone E.
The aluminum helicore A wears out for me in 4 weeks and turns my fingertips black, but otherwise I like the helicores. The Violino G is an experiment to get easier response and a less 'choked' sound. It seems to soften the overall sound too with those other iron strings.
With this combo, the A is too loud at times, but who cares - I'm no Gavin or People's, that's for sure
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Hup
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
The dreaded "squeaky E" (or even "silent E") is a topic that surfaces here now and then. The major cause is bowing technique, but some strings are less forgiving than others and so tend to sqeak (or go silent) on the slightest provocation.
The best E I've come across (for me) is the wound steel E that comes with Pirastro's Eudoxa set (that's wound gut G, D and A). I like the firm clear tone and playability of that E throughout the playing range so much that it is a permanent fixture on both my fiddles, no matter what the other strings are.
When stringing up a fiddle, make sure that the string on the peg never contacts the inner face of the peg box. If it does, then that is a sure recipe for unwanted string wear when the peg is being turned.
Also, you need no more than 3 or 4 windings on the peg (I'm sure I've seen this mentioned somewhere on Pirastro's website).
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
I second Lazyhounds recomendation without hesitation.
I am however going to try the Obligato gold plated Top E out of curiosity. Lazy , have you tried this string? Should I bother? just curious. Thanks
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by jig
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
I don't think that any string that is out on the market right now should break irregardless of what you may think about the string. There is nothing wrong with Helicores if they work for you. Typical string breakage is a fault of the fiddle, not the string. UNless there was a "manufacturing" issue.
Jig, if I read right, you play on Eudixas. The gold plated string (of any kind) will be too shrill, I think. My favorite Eudoxa E string is a Golden Spiral, but Goldbroket works well, too. I've not tried the Eudoxa E but have a friend with one on who loves it.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
"Typical string breakage is a fault of the fiddle, not the string"
Not necessarily; it can also be a result of how the player sets up the strings, as we've been discussing.
If a string breaks between the nut and the bridge earlier than you would expect in its playing life then the cause (other than an inherent fault in the string) is likely to be one or more of the following:
1) finger nails contacting the strings
2) high action (strings too high over the finger board)
3) heavy finger action, which can (but not necessarily) result from no 2
4) lack of lubrication (pencil lead) in the grooves in the nut and bridge.
Obligato gold plated E. I'm not sure about this one. It's been a while since I used that E, and it was with Obligatos. My playing has changed since then, so it's difficult to make a fair comparison with what I'm using now.. I remember with the Gold E I didn't have any problems with it squeaking and the tone seemed balanced with the other Obligato strings, but the plating eventually started to wear off.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
yes Lazyhound, you are right..I guess I was assuming that the breakage was right at the nut as keelin described..in that instance, I would say the fault is the fiddle..
I have had e strings break though...when they go false quickly, they cannot be tuned to pitch, and eventually break under the stress...I feel really stupid now thinking back trying to bring that string up to pitch as it was as, under normal conditions the tension of a string tuned up to the next octave! Luckily no damage occurred to the fiddle and I was not blinded by the popping string!
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Fiddle stringing help and kinds of strings
Some years ago I was one of the cello tutors for a number of LEA school orchestras who met together on a Saturday morning to rehearse for a concert.
The first task of the morning for the tutors was to tune the all the stringed instruments. So I had a queue of about 30 8/9 year olds in front of me with assorted fiddles and cellos.
One little lad presented his 7/8 size fiddle for tuning, and I thought that the A was very flat so I started to bring it up to pitch and it popped long before it reached A. It was then I discovered that he'd given me a fiddle strung as a viola, (with a fiddle steel E tuned down to A, just to confuse matters), and the "A" string was in fact a D. Fortunately, the school had a vast stock of spare strings, so no harm was done.
After that, I always asked.
# Posted on November 22nd 2007 by lazyhound