can you point out some basic practical exerises for a (beginner, but not only) tin whistle mainly for fluent playing. The one i practice is playing (with and without tonguing):
now work out the rest.can you? you will be training your ear to fingers.
There are many patterns like this.
now go back down.
hope i got my whistle tab right! my son is here helping me now, he says i dont need to do the C small, but i did!
While I acknowledge that playing tunes is the best practice, the music teacher in me recommends isolating tricky passages and going over them very, very slowly, out of rhythm and one note at a time.
Two examples that really tangle my fingers are the third measure of Cooley's Reel (FDADBDAD/ FDADdAFD) and the first measure of Drowsy Maggie (E2BEdEBE). Those patterns come up often, and the ol' digits really struggle. This is when you need to really slow the tempo and make sure the fingers are landing corrrectly each time.
Yeah , pronouncing each individual note clearly. start slowly with a click track, even on a scale exercise, and gently up the pace over the course of a few days.
What i stress is to always go back to the beginning if a mistake is made, never just skip over an error. even if its the last note of the phrase/exercise.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
Reminds me of a funny story.; two students are told by their master that he will tell them the secret to the martial arts. Excited they talk about it for days, looking forward to the day. They arrive and the master gets them training, he says i will tell you at the end of this session. So theyu sweat and trai for 2 hours till they have used all their reserves and more, but inspired by his promise they did deep. At last the moment comes, he calls them over , looks around and whispers. the secret is.... do what you've just done for the last 2 hours every day for the rest of your life!
And i leave you with that pearl of wisdom, good night.
Interesting approach, jig. I was always taught NOT to stop if you make a mistake, because then you're encouraging kinesthetic learning, where the fingers remember where to go next. The problem with that is when you make a mistake, your fingers get "lost"...
So even very early on, my first teacher taught me to learn how to continue even when I made a mistake.
I do think it's good to practice tunes at a particular speed until you can play it perfectly at that speed before trying to speed up, though.
As far as i am aware that is simply a classical/orchestral practice for sight reading. Everyone cant stop because one individual mucks up. A system of mass production inevitably will not work for everyone.
It is bad practice for an individual to play something fast when they cant play slowly. If you practice a mistake you will just get good at it.
Once the tune can be played steadily and slowly then the speed can be raised, but not before.
It is down to the individual teacher and their lineage as to the real quality of the tuition.
The most important time to get good teaching is at the beginning.To set up good habits.
I know full well i have bad habits ingrained from my youth. I just have to live with them. Ok Perhaps I can slowly modify them to improve them , but really, practically, after20-30 years thats not. the case.
Anyhow the problem with early bad habits is that they set a ceiling that is hard to break through. at some stage those bad habbits will stop progression. While a good foundation will allow you to continue to develop throughout your life.
I think if you practice stopping when you make a mistake, you'll get good at that too.
If you are continually making the *same* mistake, then you're practicing it, and will continue making it. So you should slow down until you can do it without that mistake. But it's important to learn how to handle mistakes on the fly and still be able to continue, because mistakes are going to happen and how you handle them is evidence of how experienced you are.
We are in agreement that you shouldn't speed up until you can play a tune steadily and slowly. (Except for some circumstances, when pushing your speed beyond your capability can be a handy practicing tool, as long as you slow down again). So let's just say there's a difference between a "mistake" and a "bad habit".
when I 'already' know where i make the mistake i try to practice that moment playing a few notes before and after the mistake, or pracice just the moment of the mistake all over until i feel comfortable and then play it within the tune:D
also it depends on the tune. they are divided into parts so maybe it is a good idea to practice each part individually all over until you find it is good, then put it all together, because, when there is a tune of three parts you'll be good at A, B will be worse and C will have much to work on.
stopping at a mistake makes me feel like in an arcade video game when i have to start from the first note but it also gives good results and one can 'complete the stage'.
one should combine all those techniques, each player is different and takes different approach, but all the approaches make some sense.
Well pete that is an important skill to develop, if you are in the habit of making mistakes! However this systematic method i suggest should, with persistence carry you through that.
Re mistakes, I had a great lesson where the idea is to note the mistake but not get emotionally involved just note it and carry on. Its natural.
Ras, if you make a mistake then you are going too fast. It might sound strange, but with a metronome at a really slow speed . divorced from the idea of 'music', the mechanical aspects can be dealt with.
Gigging or playing with pressure will make it all a bit more stressful and mistakes can happen. Its only natural. Also if you are distracted by something.
However, enough focused slow practice then sped up should do the job. And trying to make a tune played slowly into a piece of music is also not so easy.
Slow down untill the tricky bit is manageable without a click is also effective.
Why is it that everyone seems to view speeding up as a major objective? Sure, as a beginner, I am generally comfortable at speeds well below those common at sessions, but that is only part of the story. I may have the wrong end of the stick, but what I really want to do is make a tune sound alive at whatever speed I play. Given that, I do often try playing far slower than my comfort zone, either playing a (usually fast) tune like an air to explore some expressive possibilities, or just trying to make a tune bounce along without the crutch of speed. (Note: I often fail!)
Of course, I'm going way off topic here, but it just came to mind.
Rob, your point is a good one. It is better to play at a slow speed and learn how to give even a slowly played tune some lift. It is better to learn to keep good time, too. Better than trying to play fast. The worst mistake is messing up the rhythm.
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that. We're all advocating not speeding up until you can do it well.
But rob, speeding up should be a major *eventual* objective. You're not going to be able to play in many sessions if you can't play up to speed. And while a lot of (poor) players use speed in place of feel, the music has a particular quality to it when played well fast that you can't get from playing it well slowly. The ultimate goal should be to have mastery over it, and play it well throughout a large range of speed.
I often do standard exercises as part of my ear training.
Scales, arpeggios, modes & octaves help me with my intonation & ear at the same time. Also I play them rhythmically. Sometimes the rhythm is straight forward. But I will also make up rhythms around what I hear in the tunes.
Rasmewa if you are still checking this thread ~
here is an exercise I put in the Abcs last night;
X:1
T:Whistle Ex.
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:D
|:DE FG AB cd|cB AG FE D2|
AB cd ef ga|gf ed cB A2|
GA Bc de fg|fe dc BA G2|
EF GA Bc de|dc BA GF E2|
E2 G2 B2 e2|G2 B2 d2 g2|
A2 c2 e2 a2|D2 F2 A2 d2|
D2 d2 A2 a2|G2 g2 E2 e2|
e2 E2 g2 G2|a2 A2 d2 D2|
d2 A2 F2 D2|a2 e2 c2 A2|
g2 d2 B2 G2|e2 B2 G2 E2|
ed cB AG FE|gf ed cB AG|
ag fe dc BA|dc BA GF ED|
dDaA gGeE|eEgG aAdD:|
beginner whistle practical exericses
beginner whistle practical exericses
can you point out some basic practical exerises for a (beginner, but not only) tin whistle mainly for fluent playing. The one i practice is playing (with and without tonguing):
DFAdAFD
EGBeBGE
FA^cf^cAF
GBdgdBG
A=ceae=cA
BdgbgdG
Perhaps you know some good (interesting) stuff for practicing ornaments or irregular rhythmic patterns also.
# Posted on November 14th 2007 by rasmewa
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
DFABGE
EGBc#AF#
F#Ac#dBG
now work out the rest.can you? you will be training your ear to fingers.
There are many patterns like this.
now go back down.
hope i got my whistle tab right! my son is here helping me now, he says i dont need to do the C small, but i did!
# Posted on November 14th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
The best exercise is always just to play tunes.
Question what you want to do with your instrument. Is it to play tunes?
Once you get comfortable with a tune, try another.
Some tunes though, do have little runs in them that will help more than runs in others. For example, try "the kid on the mountain.
The first part is good for practicing rolls: Eroll, F#roll, Groll, Eroll.
You don't have to play it like that of course, but it's good practice.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by ...
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Octave jumps. Up & down.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
scales arpeggios, patterns, typical runs, triplets, phrases from tunes and of course as Llig says tunes. Cuts, rolls, grace notes.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Ooh. I love Kid on the Mountain. Might I suggest Dinky's reel as good practice.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
While I acknowledge that playing tunes is the best practice, the music teacher in me recommends isolating tricky passages and going over them very, very slowly, out of rhythm and one note at a time.
Two examples that really tangle my fingers are the third measure of Cooley's Reel (FDADBDAD/ FDADdAFD) and the first measure of Drowsy Maggie (E2BEdEBE). Those patterns come up often, and the ol' digits really struggle. This is when you need to really slow the tempo and make sure the fingers are landing corrrectly each time.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Yeah , pronouncing each individual note clearly. start slowly with a click track, even on a scale exercise, and gently up the pace over the course of a few days.
What i stress is to always go back to the beginning if a mistake is made, never just skip over an error. even if its the last note of the phrase/exercise.
Perfect practice makes perfect.
Reminds me of a funny story.; two students are told by their master that he will tell them the secret to the martial arts. Excited they talk about it for days, looking forward to the day. They arrive and the master gets them training, he says i will tell you at the end of this session. So theyu sweat and trai for 2 hours till they have used all their reserves and more, but inspired by his promise they did deep. At last the moment comes, he calls them over , looks around and whispers. the secret is.... do what you've just done for the last 2 hours every day for the rest of your life!
And i leave you with that pearl of wisdom, good night.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Interesting approach, jig. I was always taught NOT to stop if you make a mistake, because then you're encouraging kinesthetic learning, where the fingers remember where to go next. The problem with that is when you make a mistake, your fingers get "lost"...
So even very early on, my first teacher taught me to learn how to continue even when I made a mistake.
I do think it's good to practice tunes at a particular speed until you can play it perfectly at that speed before trying to speed up, though.
Pete
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by Reverend
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
As far as i am aware that is simply a classical/orchestral practice for sight reading. Everyone cant stop because one individual mucks up. A system of mass production inevitably will not work for everyone.
It is bad practice for an individual to play something fast when they cant play slowly. If you practice a mistake you will just get good at it.
Once the tune can be played steadily and slowly then the speed can be raised, but not before.
It is down to the individual teacher and their lineage as to the real quality of the tuition.
The most important time to get good teaching is at the beginning.To set up good habits.
I know full well i have bad habits ingrained from my youth. I just have to live with them. Ok Perhaps I can slowly modify them to improve them , but really, practically, after20-30 years thats not. the case.
Anyhow the problem with early bad habits is that they set a ceiling that is hard to break through. at some stage those bad habbits will stop progression. While a good foundation will allow you to continue to develop throughout your life.
Have fun.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
I think if you practice stopping when you make a mistake, you'll get good at that too.
If you are continually making the *same* mistake, then you're practicing it, and will continue making it. So you should slow down until you can do it without that mistake. But it's important to learn how to handle mistakes on the fly and still be able to continue, because mistakes are going to happen and how you handle them is evidence of how experienced you are.
We are in agreement that you shouldn't speed up until you can play a tune steadily and slowly. (Except for some circumstances, when pushing your speed beyond your capability can be a handy practicing tool, as long as you slow down again). So let's just say there's a difference between a "mistake" and a "bad habit".
Pete
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by Reverend
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
when I 'already' know where i make the mistake i try to practice that moment playing a few notes before and after the mistake, or pracice just the moment of the mistake all over until i feel comfortable and then play it within the tune:D
also it depends on the tune. they are divided into parts so maybe it is a good idea to practice each part individually all over until you find it is good, then put it all together, because, when there is a tune of three parts you'll be good at A, B will be worse and C will have much to work on.
stopping at a mistake makes me feel like in an arcade video game when i have to start from the first note but it also gives good results and one can 'complete the stage'.
one should combine all those techniques, each player is different and takes different approach, but all the approaches make some sense.
# Posted on November 15th 2007 by rasmewa
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Well pete that is an important skill to develop, if you are in the habit of making mistakes!
However this systematic method i suggest should, with persistence carry you through that.
Re mistakes, I had a great lesson where the idea is to note the mistake but not get emotionally involved just note it and carry on. Its natural.
Ras, if you make a mistake then you are going too fast. It might sound strange, but with a metronome at a really slow speed . divorced from the idea of 'music', the mechanical aspects can be dealt with.
Gigging or playing with pressure will make it all a bit more stressful and mistakes can happen. Its only natural. Also if you are distracted by something.
However, enough focused slow practice then sped up should do the job. And trying to make a tune played slowly into a piece of music is also not so easy.
Slow down untill the tricky bit is manageable without a click is also effective.
# Posted on November 16th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Why is it that everyone seems to view speeding up as a major objective? Sure, as a beginner, I am generally comfortable at speeds well below those common at sessions, but that is only part of the story. I may have the wrong end of the stick, but what I really want to do is make a tune sound alive at whatever speed I play. Given that, I do often try playing far slower than my comfort zone, either playing a (usually fast) tune like an air to explore some expressive possibilities, or just trying to make a tune bounce along without the crutch of speed. (Note: I often fail!)
Of course, I'm going way off topic here, but it just came to mind.
# Posted on November 16th 2007 by robharper
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Rob, your point is a good one. It is better to play at a slow speed and learn how to give even a slowly played tune some lift. It is better to learn to keep good time, too. Better than trying to play fast. The worst mistake is messing up the rhythm.
# Posted on November 16th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that. We're all advocating not speeding up until you can do it well.
But rob, speeding up should be a major *eventual* objective. You're not going to be able to play in many sessions if you can't play up to speed. And while a lot of (poor) players use speed in place of feel, the music has a particular quality to it when played well fast that you can't get from playing it well slowly. The ultimate goal should be to have mastery over it, and play it well throughout a large range of speed.
Pete
# Posted on November 16th 2007 by Reverend
Re: beginner whistle practical exericses
Fair point, Pete. I think it is the available range of speeds that is more important than simply aiming to play fast.
# Posted on November 17th 2007 by robharper
Beginner whistle exericse
I often do standard exercises as part of my ear training.
Scales, arpeggios, modes & octaves help me with my intonation & ear at the same time. Also I play them rhythmically. Sometimes the rhythm is straight forward. But I will also make up rhythms around what I hear in the tunes.
Rasmewa if you are still checking this thread ~
here is an exercise I put in the Abcs last night;
X:1
T:Whistle Ex.
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:D
|:DE FG AB cd|cB AG FE D2|
AB cd ef ga|gf ed cB A2|
GA Bc de fg|fe dc BA G2|
EF GA Bc de|dc BA GF E2|
E2 G2 B2 e2|G2 B2 d2 g2|
A2 c2 e2 a2|D2 F2 A2 d2|
D2 d2 A2 a2|G2 g2 E2 e2|
e2 E2 g2 G2|a2 A2 d2 D2|
d2 A2 F2 D2|a2 e2 c2 A2|
g2 d2 B2 G2|e2 B2 G2 E2|
ed cB AG FE|gf ed cB AG|
ag fe dc BA|dc BA GF ED|
dDaA gGeE|eEgG aAdD:|
Cheers!
# Posted on November 19th 2007 by Ben Steen