No, I'm not waxing lyrical over any former popstar turned convicted paedophile.
But how tight should we keep our sessions...socially, that is? Do we have the right - ANY right - to be exclusive?
And should exclusivity be only against learners? After all, it is possible to get a reasonable musician who happens to be a complete knobhead, completely out of sync with the zeitgheist of the session. Look at the Blythe's page on here and in particular the post from me entitled "An eventful evening was had last night." The person has now 'emigrated'.
Or turning it around, should we have a licence to make a session inclusive, and let all sorts of shakers, strummers and thumpers wander in? After all, it IS by the grace of the pub governor that our session is allowed at all.
Oh, I know, re-hashing old discussions just for the sake of posting something, yeah, yeah. But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door, if not literally, then by significant silences from the other session players?
For what it's worth, I prefer sessions that are a bit exclusive. One of my favorite quotes from the last year on this forum comes from the keyboard of one llig leahchim:
"Me and my mates have a peculiar hobby. We like to play music from a very tightly defined sub-genre. We go out to the pub and indulge our hobby. And we are not interested in people who are not familiar with this tightly defined sub-genre. And if anyone tries to invade our evening with something out with our self-penned remit, well, after a few civil and polite warnings, we may well be rude to them."
I don't mind if other people feel differently, and want to be more inclusive with their sessions - that's fine. But I'm less likely to wanna be "part of their gang"...
I have also stated before that I think sessions tend to work best with a "leader", someone who is responsible for things like:
* making sure enough players will show up
* dealing with the establishment
* handling situations where the hippie girl shows up to recite poetry and play tambourine...
Again, if people want to run their sessions differently than that, I'm OK with it. That just seems to work best in my experience.
And where you draw the line is an interesting question. I think you have to be flexible, but you draw the line where someone's behavior is having a largely negative effect on the session. Different sessions will draw the line in different places, of course.
Persistent bad behavior is not acceptable in any social situation. I marvel at the number of people who have, apparently, been raised by wolves. This is not a problem unique to playing music together, but you would think that musicians would have some idea of the rules of polite interaction.
Ach, Reverend, you got me sussed right enough. Trying to stir things up of course. It was getting a bit too quiet and polite on here of late - and, over here it's the fireworks season after all. Yesterdays effort didn't quite get enough responses for me.
Is this not why we have a session anchor to sort these things out, to know what sort of session is desired by the regular musicians and then to help enforce it?
I think it is fine to be exclusive. Like I said on the other thread, I like to crank away with aces and I'm unusual in that I don't mind stopping for beginners. I totally understand it would be a bit of a drag to be interrupted when in the midst of flying at a high level by a beginner who wants to stumble through a few tunes with you.
At the session I anchor everyone doesn't mind beginners and we'll "brake" for them briefly before resuming the onslaught.
If I lived in a big city with lots of musicians I'd happily do both, hit an exclusive session with aces and the beginner sessions to 'give back' or whatever that sort of stuff is that makes your Karma happy. I’ve even been doing some mentoring.
But not everyone is like that and that’s fine.
What gets me is when beginners expect others to cater to them without having the decency to think of the others’ feelings. Perhaps they don’t want to stop for you and it’s really frustrating for them. Vice versa too. Perhaps skilled players should take a little time to think of the newbies’ feelings as well. Kindly explain the situation about the high flying quality of this session they’re attempting to slow down and stop dead in its tracks for Planxty Irwin and direct them to a beginner’s session. I’m assuming (which is dangerous) that places big enough to have exclusive skilled sessions would also have beginner ones somewhere as well. Here in the cultural boondocks we have no such luxuries.
OK, enough nonsense. Now everybody get mad, be nasty and make funnies.
But Batlady, sometimes the "bad behavior" isn't defined by normal social interaction. The bad behavior might come from an ignorance of the somewhat peculiar etiquette that is found in Irish sessions. (The ignorance itself isn't inherently rude, but the failure to try to understand what the "rules" are might be, I guess...)
>What gets me is when beginners expect others to cater to them without having the decency to think of the others’ feelings.
Yep. Yes Yes Yes. Gets right on my proverbials that does.
Notions of "common courtesy" and social norms may not be enough for playing music together. Unlike most other hobbies, ours depends on a shared sense of the ***soundscape.*** Simply thinking about this soundscape is alien to most non-musicians, so right off it's often not easy to find a good pub or room to play in (no competing sound system, juke box, telly, etc.). And for a session to really hold together, the musicians have to have some shared agenda for what kind of music (what kind of soundscape) they're making together. That gets into all the nitty gritty details that we love to argue over here ad nauseum. And all too often, these details remain implicit at most sessions until someone is too dim to suss them out and repeatedly mucks things up. Then it's up to the session anchor to set the mucker straight or send them packing.
Of course, it's up to the players at each session to decide what their session is to be, and to shepherd it accordingly, keeping the wolves at bay.
>>> Yep. Yes Yes Yes. Gets right on my proverbials that does.
Yeah, but beginners can be taught...
I often use the language analysis to talk about the music and sessions. It works well in so many ways:
* Learning the music is like learning a new language. You have to learn some basic words and phrases, and soon enough, you'll start to understand how to put sentences together
* A session is like a conversation. You don't walk up and jump into the middle of someone's private conversation without being invited.
* Adults will often hold conversations with young children, because they like to encourage those children, and they find it interesting and cute. But an adult doesn't want to talk at a second grade level all night, and so the child needs to understand that the grownups will want to have their own conversations without being interrupted...
If you explain things like that, the beginners will understand.
I take exception to batlady's smear against the social etiquette of badgers...they all know when a sharp nip is required to maintain social harmony and usually behave impeccably as a result of having been raised by responsible caring adults.It's the one's raised among werewolves you should be worrying about,they CAN get troublesome...without pointing fingers or naming names,you know who you are...
But that is part of the social contract, Will. My point is that there needs to be folks that don't allow the clueless to run amok. That is why it is called "common courtesy". We have to agree on what that is, and then act on it. If everyone just stays plugged in to their iPods and little ear cell phones and ignores what is going on around them, it looks rather grim for society.
Batlady, I think what CPT was getting at is that there are elements of Irish music that go beyond "common courtesy". The swing and lift are things that take players years to understand and learn how to accomplish, for instance. To an outsider, most of the traditional musics sound alike (and to some of them, it all sounds like the same piece of music!) So the nuances of what makes music sound Irish are not "common", and therefore can't be included in "common courtesy". So the ignorance isn't rude, per se, it's just ignorant. But someone who doesn't have that sensibility of the "soundscape" can still ruin a session pretty quickly.
Saint, why is it that whenever people are having a reasonable discussion you have to butt in with an insult - btw in this case insulting someone who hasn't even participated in the thread yet. How sad. I would be so glad if you were never to post here again. Unfortunately it seems you are here to stay.
Right, to answer the original question. Yes, of course we have a right to be completely exclusive if we want to. If you and a group of friends have organised a session together, even if it's in a public place, you have the right not to let anyone join in if that's what you want. There are advantages in doing so, but there are also very significant disadvantages. It all depends on what the musicians want from there own session they have created.
Just out of curiosity, Dow, what do you see as being the "significant disadvantages" of having a closed session?
My regular session tonight is a "closed" session, although, that comes mostly from having limited space, and a pub that provides our entire tab on the house, so we don't like to run that bill too high... There are some other advantages of having it "closed", of course...
Ms. Bat, I thinkyou and I are bandying our terms about without agreeing on their definition. I was coming at "common courtesy" and "social norm" as the rules that apply in the overall, larger society, not just the social norm for sessions.
My point is that many newcomers to music sessions really haven't thought much about the different courtesies that apply to an aural setting.
A few other hobbies impose soundscape rules--in golf, for instance, it's expected that everyone in the foursome is quiet when someone is teeing up or putting. While this may seem like simple courtesy, it wouldn't be anywhere on the radar of someone who's never played golf, favoring instead, say, baseball (where the fielders slag the batter constantly) or hockey (where the opposing team does everything physically possible to interfere with you getting a shot or pass off).
As musicians, we spend years honing our listening abilities. It's easy for us to forget that newcomers to music, or even to this particular music, don't really know what to listen for, or what the rest of us are thinking and feeling as we create the soundscape. Some people begin to suss it out, but others need to be helped along--through no lack of their own of "common courtesy." They simply lack the experience and frame of reference for listening so deeply to the sounds and silences around them. And when those sounds and silences *are* the event, the social interaction, some people need it explained to them.
That said, if someone mucks things up after they've been taught what to listen for, or just out of malice, then they get the boot.
Agreed Dow. But
>It all depends on what the musicians want from there own session they have created
...is actually the question I'm posing, as in
>But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door...
if you see what I mean.
Well, off the top of my head, the obvious disadvantages if you make it closed to "any outsider" are:
1) People who hear you play and are inspired to take up an instrument, or pick up an instrument again after leaving it for a few years, wouldn't feel that they can join in and get a chance to better themselves in a musical social setting
2) You'd miss out if there were visiting musicians from Ireland, or e.g. touring musicians from elsewhere
3) I'm sure I had a #3 too but I've forgotten
Right, Pete. But you have to listen and pay attention to know that. I'm just saying that people don't pick up on those sorts of nuances in all sorts of situations. But it is most apparent in music because you have to understand some subtle things before you ever pick up the shaky egg.
I blush at the memory of some of my more egregious displays of ignorance, but I think I have learned a thing or two. It's funny, but the longer I play the music, the worse I sound. I was pretty damn good when I'd only been playing for 5 years!
We have two weekly sessions here in Helena. One is wide open--no one is turned away. The general aim is to play music common to the Irish trad repertoire and drink as many pints as possible inside of 4 hours.
The other session is more of an "by-invite-only" affair, though we welcome visitors. Here the aim is to be able to hear and feed off each other, hoping to play nearer to the collective best of our abilities.
To answer Danny's question, us players explicitly set up and enforce the two sessions for different levels of inclusiveness. We talk amongst ourselves when deciding who to invite to the second.
Eww I just wrote "there own session". Grammar class here I come.
>But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door...
It's got to be a general consensus between all of the musicians in the group hasn't it, if it's a closed session? I assume we're talking about a group of close friends here, or musicians who have played together regularly in the past - it would really rather have to be for a closed sesh like that. When I say "consensus between friends" I mean like "let's make it a closed session" in the same way as you'd say "let's all have a drink in this pub, not that one".
There is nothing wrong with any session being as exclusive as they want. The problem is when people on the mustard board insist that the exclusivity they enjoy is the only way it is and the only way it should be for every session everywhere.
At my session I asked first if I could join, making it quite clear I was a beginner. The said sure I could join even if all I did was sit there holding an instrument. That's what I do most of the time.
But people here on the mustard board say stuff like I should stay home, good riddance, etc.
Meanwhile people at my own session tell the shaky-eggers to put their eggs away but they tell ME to keep coming back. They even make tune requests of me.
So you all with your exclusivity. Fine and dandy but your rules don't apply to everybody's session.
Danny, your No. 3 can be a problem. But it doesn't take too much effort for 2 or 3 people to keep learning and bringing new tunes to a "closed" session.
BTW, the "by-invite-only" label works better for us than "closed." It implies that as players improve, they can earn an invite, and it also allows people passing through an instant "in." We routinely extend offers of a seat to players from out of town, in advance, or on the spur of the moment.
It also helps to have a wide open session another night of the week that everyone participates in (even those of us from the invite-only sesh). No one is without a time and place to play.
sbhikes, the point that some of us are making is that we go out of our way to create different sorts of sessions to be both exclusive and ***more inclusive.***
In my own case, I'm a founder of an open session, an invite-only session, and a tune learning session (aka "slow session"). The reason for doing all three is to help newcomers improve their abilities with and understanding of this music and so eventually fit in wherever they choose.
just because a session might be "closed" doesn't mean that we ignore everybody... If you're a traveling musician from Ireland and stumble across the session, or are inspired by the music, introduce yourself to us, and you'll probably be invited in.
"Closed" is a term that maybe gives the wrong impression. "by-invite-only" is better maybe, or "controlled".
I would think that a selective screening like that would be more problematic. Not sure why. In fact I haven't given it any thought at all. I'm thinking now...
Mark, it's an ongoing, fluid thing. "By invite" doesn't mean that "membership" is ever settled. People still come and go. And us core players often disagree on who fits in or not, and why. All part of the push and pull of shaping a session.
I figure it is what it is, and I might be able to tug it in my direction some nights, but then let someone else tug it in their's the next, and so on. Over 10 years or so here, it's gradually evolved into a more mutually satisfying session for all of us.
sbhikes you ought to change your name to spikes, because that's how you come across - all spikey and jaggy and defensive.
And once again, I don't know whether you don't read the initial post properly or just take out what you want to satisfy your own agenda.
>The problem is when people on the mustard board insist that the exclusivity they enjoy is the only way it is and the only way it should be for every session everywhere.
I think you just plucked that out of mid-air. No-one "insisted" anything of the sort. I asked of members something like where do they draw the lines for in- or ex-clusivity. The only thing that I am reminded of that insists is a tapeworm, which encysts in its host. And that's what you're beginning to sound like, clinging on and malevolently sucking the life out of perfectly healthy and harmless discussions.
Here, sweety. Have a drink from this bottle every time you encounter one. It will calm you down. (keep it well-stoppered in a dark place, and don't mind any burbbling noises)
I'm just trying to keep you guys honest about your motives. I am not the only one who reads the same tired discusssions about hatred of backers, bodhrans, shaky eggs, beginners, clueless idiots etc. over and over again.
It's really a stupid question in the OP. I mean can I make my party invitations for only the people I actually want to come? Of course you can. So what is your motivation for asking that question here?
I suspect that you guys would rather come here and complain about the bad shaky-egger than actually tell the bad shaky-egger to stop shaking the egg to their face.
And for Exhibit A I quote:
>Oh, I know, re-hashing old discussions just for the sake of posting something, yeah, yeah. But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door, if not literally, then by significant silences from the other session players?
Yep, CPT, control freak, that's me! I am also a core member of 1. an invite-only session, 2. an open session (which is maybe the best of the 3), and 3. a tune learning session.
At the tune learning session, we not only teach tunes, but we also talk about all the session etiquette ideas, and try to teach people how not to be ignorant or rude. We encourage people from the tune learning session to get out to the open sessions, and even invite them to our invite-only session!
>>> But people here on the mustard board say stuff like I should stay home, good riddance, etc.
sbhikes, as I was trying to say yesterday, you may be reacting defensively to things that have been said. Other than a few slagging comments (which were generally meant in jest - Dow, you are NOT helping ), I am not sure that I've seen anyone actually tell you to "stay home" or "good riddance".
Everybody here was a beginner once, and believe it or not, even the people that have been playing for 30 years (and may be trying to stir up the discussion on the site) still remember what it was like. Pretty much everyone here is encouraging to beginners.
So back to Danny's original query, I wonder if there's some cultural differences that account for how various sessions handle this. Or maybe it's just down to the personalities of the core players.
Most of the sessions I've really participated in in the States spend some time deliberating these sorts of issues. It's like a Vermont town meeting. Maybe it's more implicit and less discussed elsewhere. A less motley culture wouldn't have near as much to deliberate about, I suppose.
SB, this is just a penchant of Danny's. No harm intended, I'm quite sure (bear in mind that I've been reading Danny's posts here since he joined...sigh )
It's just the sort of topic that's interesting to us old, tired sessioneers....
So don't let the handful of curmudgeons color your understanding of the abundance of good stuff that happens here.
CPT, I think you've hit on something there... The cultural differences between the U.S. of A. and Ireland and the U.K. definitely come into play with some of the etiquette. I think part of the session culture is tied in with the social culture of Ireland. So things that may be "common sense" there are things that we have to go out of our way to analyze and deal with on this side of the pond, because we're so far removed from that parent culture.
And the same goes for the music as well. We have to go out of our way to analyze what "makes it sound Irish", when those are things that people who have grown up with exposure to the music don't even think about.
>>> After all, it IS by the grace of the pub governor that our session is allowed at all.
So KML, do you think the guv would prefer the session to be more inclusive? Do you think they'd get more business from people allowed to bring their tambourines, spoons, shakey eggs, and nose flutes in? Or does the pub want a good, Irish session, that might provide good ambience for what they're trying to accomplish to pull in a certain demographic of customer?
Seriously, I was just trying to point out that Danny likes to discuss these things, and apparently so do some of us. I doubt he had any ulterior motive, and it sounds like his own session is welcoming and quite encouraging (until a person proves to be incorrigible).
I also think it can be hard for a newcomer to sessions to understand just how thoroughly awful some people sometimes behave at sessions, and how disheartening it is to have your evening ruined by a clod. Case in point is the guy who showed up at a session here in Montana with two large rocks, plucked from the bottom of the river. He proceeded to "play" them, for percussion.
Okay, on one set, it was funny, maybe even interesting. But as the night wore on (and it became clear that he could not find the beat much less keep it), persisted in playing along on every tune. I do not at all blame the anchor (not me) for finally telling the guy to put the stones back in his pants pockets and return them to whence they came.
Until you've dealt with this kind of train wreck, and then dealt with it again and again, it's hard to see the context that threads like this come from.
That river rock story is far better than the snare drum guy that pops up randomly in our town. But our Rain Stick Lady is in the same league, although not quite as disruptive. It is hard to play a reel with beebees cascading next to your ear.
>>> It is hard to play a reel with beebees cascading next to your ear.
So, why doesn't it stop? Is your session that inclusive? Is nobody willing to say anything? Is the person so fun to hang out with that you just put up with it?
"Saint, why is it that whenever people are having a reasonable discussion you have to butt in with an insult - btw in this case insulting someone who hasn't even participated in the thread yet. How sad. I would be so glad if you were never to post here again. Unfortunately it seems you are here to stay."
Dow you don't really mean this! ,but to answer your question its only you and one or two others because when I started on this site you made little of everything I said and I don't forget or let things go that easy and now that you have learnt that you tried to bully the wrong person its to late but remember I only retaliate you pick on the weak.
I suppose "the six inch club" is a selective group.
I punched her out and placed her rain stick where it belonged.
NO. Just joking. I stopped going to that one for other reasons; it was the only game it town for quite a while, so I put up with them and they put up with me. Now I play in an EXCLUSIVE session; an invitation or six pack of the correct beer gets you in. Actually, it's a house session, and no rainsticks are to be found. I always bring beer so that they'll put up with me.
So I go to lunch, I come back to work. I make a few calls, pound on the keyboard a bit, check back into thesession.org and...HOLY COW!
Rev. Pete, you are doing a fantastic job with the play by play. Buster Bodhran couldn't have done better, even if he had been able to pull himself out of that job he's got covering the 29th Annual Scotch Drinking and Midget Tossing competition in Aberdeenerneck, Scotland. He does send word he'll be back soon, and may even offer to play the midget for you at your next open session. He said something about learning Planxty Irwin on the midget...?
I like the language annalogy reverend. I'm sick of people on this website talking like they're gonna catch the plauge from beginers. Stop moaning. Everybody has to start somewhere and you might just be dicouraging people who could end up better players then you!!! yes it could happen!!! Stop acting like your onipitant your not.
I've spent the last couple of days trying to convince a few people on this site that nobody is trying to discourage them.
Pretty much every single person that I have met in person in the Irish music community has been encouraging to me to one degree or another. (including a boatload thesession.org members) Sometimes that encouragement came in the form of suggestions that I didn't want to hear. When I first started out, I constantly ignored suggestions from people who were more experienced than I was - most specifically, my wife. She used to talk *other people* into telling me things that I needed to hear because I rejected them when they came from her - lol.
People who are inexperienced at playing Irish music often come to this site and expect to fit in and be welcomed with open arms. You don't hop into a new group of people and get accepted immediately in very many situations.
And when people offer you suggestions, such as "avoid sheet music when you're first starting out", those suggestions are given because people are trying to help. You have to take those suggestions at face value - consider the sources, and decide how much stock to put into them. But if you get defensive when someone tells you that you should do something different, you're not going to learn anything. If you get riled up by assuming that things are personal attacks, you're missing the point.
Listen, slagging seems to be a natural thing amongst friends in Irish music. There are several of us on this site that are friends, and we never stop teasing, joking, poking fun, and taking the p*ss. So get used to it - it's part of how we have fun here.
There are some legitimate personality conflicts amongst members of this site, and while that's unfortunate, it's also inevitable. Get used to it, it's not going to change.
But if you look past all the chaff on this forum, it is chock full of extremely good advice and discussion. Filter it, reject some of it, and learn from the rest of it, but don't get all personally worked up about stuff that feels negative to you - it's not worth it. [/rambling rant]
I'm not here to make friends Pete. I have enough of them so i'm not expecting to be welcome with open arms but generaly at least in my point of view, when you meet new people they are at least polite even if they dont like you.
I if i was that easily offended i wouldnt keep coming back would I? I have gotten invaluable advise from some people here and i do apreciate it.
As long as you realize that there are some people that ARE here to make friends, or at least be friends with the people that they've known here for years. And you have to realize that not everybody in this world is going to be polite!
But my point was really that a lot of what is taken as impoliteness here is people misunderstanding of people poking fun. And when people get defensive, that just riles up the pokers even more.
BTW, Lolly, my rant was a general one, and not aimed directly at you or anyone else. It was a shotgun blast, meant to spread the message far and wide
Mmmm...I wouldn't say I'm here to make friends either actually, nor enemies, but I couldn't @rsed with people who start hurling abuse just because they get paranoid thinking every thread I post is anti-learner. In my initial post I put this clearly as the question:
"And should exclusivity be only against learners? After all, it is possible to get a reasonable musician who happens to be a complete knobhead, completely out of sync with the zeitgheist of the session."
In other words, new people in this music are fine (if they know their place in the scheme of things), often it can be a relatively skilled player who is the pain in the hole.
How funny, I stopped frequenting this site about 4 and 1/2 years ago. Conversations are destined to be rehashed through out the years. Oddly enough though, my opinions have also changed.
I just went to O’Flaherty’s retreat in North Texas a few weekends ago. It was great fun. Most of my friends were participating either as instructors, performing musicians or even as the staff. The leader of the event explained a major concept behind it. He wanted everyone to get the idea that Irish musicians and ITM sessions are inclusive, open and helpful. As a result, some truly awesome players have sprouted out of this area in the very short period of three years. Imagine taking some folk and encouraging them to a point that they feel very welcome and appreciated. Imagine making it so fun for them that they are hooked for life. On a humorous note, when I showed up as a beginner at his door step about 15 years ago, It was just as hard to get through it as it would’ve been anywhere else.
Here is a thought, if you want to hold closed sessions, go for it. On top of that, how about investing some of your energy into starting a beginner session? How about an intermediate session. How about a session to bridge the huge gap between intermediate and advanced. Maybe these sessions meet once a month. Perhaps you can get one or two of the advanced players to attend these monthly events and change off. The beginners can be taught right, everyone gets more out of the sessions and no one gets offended when there is a closed session where everyone gets on a tear.
Eh?
Now please – be sure to blast away. I am guilty of being both the inconvenient beginner and the ruthless advanced player.
Hello Mr. Cordova;
I had to look up the location for O'Flarhety's Retreat.
Sounds like fun. It has been a bit more than 4 1/2 years since I was in Midlothian. I cannot imagined it changed much . . . in 2 or 3 decades.
Cheers!
Heh heh Muse - I don't think it has changed much at all but the retreat is having a profound impact on the area musicians.
I'd recommend it to anyone but who's going to listen to me. However, it might be a good idea to see who the instructors were who taught some of the intermediate classes and most of the advanced classes.
You would be correct on that, Muse, but CPT and I both also mentioned it earlier in this thread. So the only people in this thread that have explicitly said they run "closed" sessions, also have said that they run tune learning sessions. That's an example of how pretty much everybody I have met in Irish traditional music has been encouraging, like I was saying...
A week in Cyprus and I've got the best tan in Bude. Eddie. Dow is a petulant, prima-donna-ish drama queen who thinks he knows it all and he's barely, if at all, out of short pants. It's actually quite good fun to not ignore him. A good dose of the ol' north-easter from straight off the North Sea right up those short pants would very quickly divest him of some of those fancy-pants ideas he's picked up from his exile in pampered Fostersville. I would be so glad if he were never to post here again but it does look like he's here to stay, so give not a monkey's mickey for the poor chap is my advice.
Ahh, there's a perfect example of the "personality conflicts" that I was talking about. I just wish that when people clashed, they wouldn't try to trash someone's knowledge or playing ability when they don't know what they're talking about...
And yeah, Muse, I generally expect people to read the thread before they chime in
Hey rev, is that me you're on upon there? Did I trash his knowledge (which I've bowed down in awe of at least once) or playing ability (which I've never mentioned as I don't think we've ever played within 10,000 miles of each other!)? Calm down old chap! Your mate's perfectly safe!
Pete
Its not a personality clash its an instrument clash ,Dow hates the Bodhran an Instrument I love and have put hours into and has little or no respect for people who play it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there's a way of putting it. I have dow sussed out now so he doesn't really bother me anymore.It used to bother me when I tried to have a conversation but my opinion didn't matter because I was a bodhran player ,it used to bother me when a newcomer got up the courage to post a question and Dow and the "six inch club" make little of the question with nasty comments(not humour) but I am one of few that was bothered by this.
Anyway these closed session seem to be mainly outside Ireland ,I've yet to come across one in Ireland .I think these closed sessions are organised by people who don't want to be out classed by newcomers.Its a self created safety zone.
Eddie, I live in the States, in the center of the middle of no where, and even I know of several "closed" sessions in Ireland. Each of them was started by the highest caliber players in hopes of having some tunes in relative peace.
I'm not saying this to be mean or disparaging--I've never heard you play. But it is possible that you don't know of any closed sessions in Ireland because you haven't been invited to one (yet).
Erm, meaning that that's the nature of a closed session--only the invited know about them. Many occur in private kitchens. Those that happen in pubs are often disguised as gigs.
Saint! You've never "tried to have a conversation" with me. In fact, sorry to say this, but you've contributed nothing of use to this website at all. Of course your opinion doesn't matter. It is totally inconsequential. Even less than Steve Shaw and that's saying something. At least he plays a musical instrument...
And about there not being closed sessions in Ireland. My immediate reaction was like Will's, only in my case, I mean to be mean and disparaging. Sorry that we have to break this to you Saint, but it's probably the case that these sessions exist and it's just that you've never been invited to one. People who get invited to closed sessions tend to be people who play music on musical instruments. Why are you surprised that you've never heard tell of one? Sorry, but they're all keeping them secret from you! What do you think you could possibly contribute to a nice little closed session? People have closed sessions to get away from bodhran players like you! That's the whole point of them! Why would you purposely invite one? It's like inviting a paedophile to your 4 year old's birthday party.
Uh Oh,
The boys have woken up together and Tombo is writing that on Dowsies lap.
The two of them chuclking away.
Tombo running his fingers through Dows......
oops
A quick heads up - The Hungries with Kane O'Rourke and Christian Vaughan Spruce were first track on Ronan Burke's Thar Droichead Sall from last Thursday, if anyone's interested http://www.clarefm.ie/
Hugo, glad to see you're providing titillating entertainment for any homophobic lurkers here to snigger at. Well done. I look forward to the day when you can say something constructive and interesting.
How do you know I play a musical instrument? If someone asks me what I play I say Irish music. If they ask me what on, I say Fridays at the Tree or The Maltsters. If they say no, I mean what do you PLAY I say Irish music...
You stop posting nasty comments after mine and I'll stop ,It takes two to tango.I spend most of my time trying to make people you miserable so its up to you.It does nt bother me.
Saint I am not usually this forward or rude but you really are the most infantile, ridiculous, ignorant up yourself bodhran player around, get a grip of your tipper and maybe removed from where the last muso stuck ay! and I would not be frighten to say that to your face either! Dow is a million times the man you will ever be...well thats it i am out of this for a while! cheers to all!
Hey guys, I've got a great idea. Let's get all progressive and New Testament-y and have a "turn the other cheek" competition. Or do you want to keep ploughing that boring old destructive "An eye for an eye" furrow?
Please don't crucify me for suggesting this.
Interesting that this was the longest recent discussion.........
Not sure that I like the implied reference to a balding, rug and glitter-wearing convict.
I do hope he's not getting any royalties from this.
Which leads me back to a previous remark;
If Henry VIII wrote Greensleeves, then the royalties go to royalty;
But if God wrote it, do the deities go to deity ?
Pete
>No, I'm not waxing lyrical over any former popstar turned convicted paedophile.
- was the first sentence of this thread, if you'd care to scroll to the top. So I wasn't referencing Gary per se. However, the phrase in the title is now so ubiquitous and catchy, it is now part of the furniture of our common vocabulary.
We've been having precisely the same discussion here with our little session group. We'd love to get more people in, however there is one instrument that in quantities of two or more will take over the session. No, and it's not bodhrans. Unfortunately I also play this mystery instrument but stick to a guitar. Anyway, our circle of contacts make it difficult to pass around information or contact fiddlers, concertina players, etc. without making contact with beginners. Looking at what I've just wrote it sounds like I'm a snob but there are different levels of playing and we don't want to spend a lot of precious time instructing or reverting back to D tunes. What we finally did was to publish a tune list and hand it out. If the player takes the time to work up the tunes they're in. We have a basic tune list along with a more advanced list. We also take it upon ourselves to work up a monthly tune that we can take a lead on. That usually scares off anyone that is a beginner. "Yeah, come on in but check out the book or the website first." takes care of a lot of problems.
Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
No, I'm not waxing lyrical over any former popstar turned convicted paedophile.
But how tight should we keep our sessions...socially, that is? Do we have the right - ANY right - to be exclusive?
And should exclusivity be only against learners? After all, it is possible to get a reasonable musician who happens to be a complete knobhead, completely out of sync with the zeitgheist of the session. Look at the Blythe's page on here and in particular the post from me entitled "An eventful evening was had last night." The person has now 'emigrated'.
Or turning it around, should we have a licence to make a session inclusive, and let all sorts of shakers, strummers and thumpers wander in? After all, it IS by the grace of the pub governor that our session is allowed at all.
Oh, I know, re-hashing old discussions just for the sake of posting something, yeah, yeah. But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door, if not literally, then by significant silences from the other session players?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Geez, KML, trying to stir things up a bit, eh?
For what it's worth, I prefer sessions that are a bit exclusive. One of my favorite quotes from the last year on this forum comes from the keyboard of one llig leahchim:
"Me and my mates have a peculiar hobby. We like to play music from a very tightly defined sub-genre. We go out to the pub and indulge our hobby. And we are not interested in people who are not familiar with this tightly defined sub-genre. And if anyone tries to invade our evening with something out with our self-penned remit, well, after a few civil and polite warnings, we may well be rude to them."
I don't mind if other people feel differently, and want to be more inclusive with their sessions - that's fine. But I'm less likely to wanna be "part of their gang"...
I have also stated before that I think sessions tend to work best with a "leader", someone who is responsible for things like:
* making sure enough players will show up
* dealing with the establishment
* handling situations where the hippie girl shows up to recite poetry and play tambourine...
Again, if people want to run their sessions differently than that, I'm OK with it. That just seems to work best in my experience.
And where you draw the line is an interesting question. I think you have to be flexible, but you draw the line where someone's behavior is having a largely negative effect on the session. Different sessions will draw the line in different places, of course.
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Persistent bad behavior is not acceptable in any social situation. I marvel at the number of people who have, apparently, been raised by wolves. This is not a problem unique to playing music together, but you would think that musicians would have some idea of the rules of polite interaction.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Actually, wolves have a very well-defined social structure. My apologies to the lupine community....
"raised by badgers" perhaps....
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Ach, Reverend, you got me sussed right enough. Trying to stir things up of course. It was getting a bit too quiet and polite on here of late - and, over here it's the fireworks season after all. Yesterdays effort didn't quite get enough responses for me.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Is this not why we have a session anchor to sort these things out, to know what sort of session is desired by the regular musicians and then to help enforce it?
I think it is fine to be exclusive. Like I said on the other thread, I like to crank away with aces and I'm unusual in that I don't mind stopping for beginners. I totally understand it would be a bit of a drag to be interrupted when in the midst of flying at a high level by a beginner who wants to stumble through a few tunes with you.
At the session I anchor everyone doesn't mind beginners and we'll "brake" for them briefly before resuming the onslaught.
If I lived in a big city with lots of musicians I'd happily do both, hit an exclusive session with aces and the beginner sessions to 'give back' or whatever that sort of stuff is that makes your Karma happy. I’ve even been doing some mentoring.
But not everyone is like that and that’s fine.
What gets me is when beginners expect others to cater to them without having the decency to think of the others’ feelings. Perhaps they don’t want to stop for you and it’s really frustrating for them. Vice versa too. Perhaps skilled players should take a little time to think of the newbies’ feelings as well. Kindly explain the situation about the high flying quality of this session they’re attempting to slow down and stop dead in its tracks for Planxty Irwin and direct them to a beginner’s session. I’m assuming (which is dangerous) that places big enough to have exclusive skilled sessions would also have beginner ones somewhere as well. Here in the cultural boondocks we have no such luxuries.
OK, enough nonsense. Now everybody get mad, be nasty and make funnies.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
But Batlady, sometimes the "bad behavior" isn't defined by normal social interaction. The bad behavior might come from an ignorance of the somewhat peculiar etiquette that is found in Irish sessions. (The ignorance itself isn't inherently rude, but the failure to try to understand what the "rules" are might be, I guess...)
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I wouldn't want to be a member of any gang that would take me as a member....
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
wait, CPT, was that "get mad", "be nasty", or "make funny"?
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
>What gets me is when beginners expect others to cater to them without having the decency to think of the others’ feelings.
Yep. Yes Yes Yes. Gets right on my proverbials that does.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Ahem, seriously? What Pete sez.
Notions of "common courtesy" and social norms may not be enough for playing music together. Unlike most other hobbies, ours depends on a shared sense of the ***soundscape.*** Simply thinking about this soundscape is alien to most non-musicians, so right off it's often not easy to find a good pub or room to play in (no competing sound system, juke box, telly, etc.). And for a session to really hold together, the musicians have to have some shared agenda for what kind of music (what kind of soundscape) they're making together. That gets into all the nitty gritty details that we love to argue over here ad nauseum. And all too often, these details remain implicit at most sessions until someone is too dim to suss them out and repeatedly mucks things up. Then it's up to the session anchor to set the mucker straight or send them packing.
Of course, it's up to the players at each session to decide what their session is to be, and to shepherd it accordingly, keeping the wolves at bay.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Sorry Pete. I left the emoticon off that other post because I couldn't figure out how to get the bushy eyebrows, big black glasses, and cigar....
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
>>> Yep. Yes Yes Yes. Gets right on my proverbials that does.
Yeah, but beginners can be taught...
I often use the language analysis to talk about the music and sessions. It works well in so many ways:
* Learning the music is like learning a new language. You have to learn some basic words and phrases, and soon enough, you'll start to understand how to put sentences together
* A session is like a conversation. You don't walk up and jump into the middle of someone's private conversation without being invited.
* Adults will often hold conversations with young children, because they like to encourage those children, and they find it interesting and cute. But an adult doesn't want to talk at a second grade level all night, and so the child needs to understand that the grownups will want to have their own conversations without being interrupted...
If you explain things like that, the beginners will understand.
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I take exception to batlady's smear against the social etiquette of badgers...they all know when a sharp nip is required to maintain social harmony and usually behave impeccably as a result of having been raised by responsible caring adults.It's the one's raised among werewolves you should be worrying about,they CAN get troublesome...without pointing fingers or naming names,you know who you are...
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by wolfbird
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
(says a man who was a rank beginner himself not that long ago...)
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
But that is part of the social contract, Will. My point is that there needs to be folks that don't allow the clueless to run amok. That is why it is called "common courtesy". We have to agree on what that is, and then act on it. If everyone just stays plugged in to their iPods and little ear cell phones and ignores what is going on around them, it looks rather grim for society.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Wolfbird, the Werewolves PAC is gonna paint a big, red circle on you.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Pete, you are typing too fast.
Good analogy with the conversations with young children.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
gill has buddys?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Batlady, I think what CPT was getting at is that there are elements of Irish music that go beyond "common courtesy". The swing and lift are things that take players years to understand and learn how to accomplish, for instance. To an outsider, most of the traditional musics sound alike (and to some of them, it all sounds like the same piece of music!) So the nuances of what makes music sound Irish are not "common", and therefore can't be included in "common courtesy". So the ignorance isn't rude, per se, it's just ignorant. But someone who doesn't have that sensibility of the "soundscape" can still ruin a session pretty quickly.
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
And Saint swoops in with a slagging comment, hoping to stir the pot even further...
(man, I miss SWFL's play by play calls of the bickering!
)
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Saint, why is it that whenever people are having a reasonable discussion you have to butt in with an insult - btw in this case insulting someone who hasn't even participated in the thread yet. How sad. I would be so glad if you were never to post here again. Unfortunately it seems you are here to stay.
Right, to answer the original question. Yes, of course we have a right to be completely exclusive if we want to. If you and a group of friends have organised a session together, even if it's in a public place, you have the right not to let anyone join in if that's what you want. There are advantages in doing so, but there are also very significant disadvantages. It all depends on what the musicians want from there own session they have created.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Just out of curiosity, Dow, what do you see as being the "significant disadvantages" of having a closed session?
My regular session tonight is a "closed" session, although, that comes mostly from having limited space, and a pub that provides our entire tab on the house, so we don't like to run that bill too high... There are some other advantages of having it "closed", of course...
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Ms. Bat, I thinkyou and I are bandying our terms about without agreeing on their definition. I was coming at "common courtesy" and "social norm" as the rules that apply in the overall, larger society, not just the social norm for sessions.
My point is that many newcomers to music sessions really haven't thought much about the different courtesies that apply to an aural setting.
A few other hobbies impose soundscape rules--in golf, for instance, it's expected that everyone in the foursome is quiet when someone is teeing up or putting. While this may seem like simple courtesy, it wouldn't be anywhere on the radar of someone who's never played golf, favoring instead, say, baseball (where the fielders slag the batter constantly) or hockey (where the opposing team does everything physically possible to interfere with you getting a shot or pass off).
As musicians, we spend years honing our listening abilities. It's easy for us to forget that newcomers to music, or even to this particular music, don't really know what to listen for, or what the rest of us are thinking and feeling as we create the soundscape. Some people begin to suss it out, but others need to be helped along--through no lack of their own of "common courtesy." They simply lack the experience and frame of reference for listening so deeply to the sounds and silences around them. And when those sounds and silences *are* the event, the social interaction, some people need it explained to them.
That said, if someone mucks things up after they've been taught what to listen for, or just out of malice, then they get the boot.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Agreed Dow. But
>It all depends on what the musicians want from there own session they have created
...is actually the question I'm posing, as in
>But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door...
if you see what I mean.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
[again Pete surmises my point and says it more clearly in fewer words. I can go home now....]
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Well, off the top of my head, the obvious disadvantages if you make it closed to "any outsider" are:
1) People who hear you play and are inspired to take up an instrument, or pick up an instrument again after leaving it for a few years, wouldn't feel that they can join in and get a chance to better themselves in a musical social setting
2) You'd miss out if there were visiting musicians from Ireland, or e.g. touring musicians from elsewhere
3) I'm sure I had a #3 too but I've forgotten
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Right, Pete. But you have to listen and pay attention to know that. I'm just saying that people don't pick up on those sorts of nuances in all sorts of situations. But it is most apparent in music because you have to understand some subtle things before you ever pick up the shaky egg.
I blush at the memory of some of my more egregious displays of ignorance, but I think I have learned a thing or two. It's funny, but the longer I play the music, the worse I sound. I was pretty damn good when I'd only been playing for 5 years!
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
3) your session ends up playing the same sets week in week out and it all becomes a bit sterile and predictable.
is that it?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
We have two weekly sessions here in Helena. One is wide open--no one is turned away. The general aim is to play music common to the Irish trad repertoire and drink as many pints as possible inside of 4 hours.
The other session is more of an "by-invite-only" affair, though we welcome visitors. Here the aim is to be able to hear and feed off each other, hoping to play nearer to the collective best of our abilities.
To answer Danny's question, us players explicitly set up and enforce the two sessions for different levels of inclusiveness. We talk amongst ourselves when deciding who to invite to the second.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Eww I just wrote "there own session". Grammar class here I come.
>But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door...
It's got to be a general consensus between all of the musicians in the group hasn't it, if it's a closed session? I assume we're talking about a group of close friends here, or musicians who have played together regularly in the past - it would really rather have to be for a closed sesh like that. When I say "consensus between friends" I mean like "let's make it a closed session" in the same way as you'd say "let's all have a drink in this pub, not that one".
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
There is nothing wrong with any session being as exclusive as they want. The problem is when people on the mustard board insist that the exclusivity they enjoy is the only way it is and the only way it should be for every session everywhere.
At my session I asked first if I could join, making it quite clear I was a beginner. The said sure I could join even if all I did was sit there holding an instrument. That's what I do most of the time.
But people here on the mustard board say stuff like I should stay home, good riddance, etc.
Meanwhile people at my own session tell the shaky-eggers to put their eggs away but they tell ME to keep coming back. They even make tune requests of me.
So you all with your exclusivity. Fine and dandy but your rules don't apply to everybody's session.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
"3) your session ends up playing the same sets week in week out and it all becomes a bit sterile and predictable.
is that it?"
Yep, that was it. Spot on Danny.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Danny, your No. 3 can be a problem. But it doesn't take too much effort for 2 or 3 people to keep learning and bringing new tunes to a "closed" session.
BTW, the "by-invite-only" label works better for us than "closed." It implies that as players improve, they can earn an invite, and it also allows people passing through an instant "in." We routinely extend offers of a seat to players from out of town, in advance, or on the spur of the moment.
It also helps to have a wide open session another night of the week that everyone participates in (even those of us from the invite-only sesh). No one is without a time and place to play.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Euggghhh, a *beginner* just made a comment! Eugh I feel sick now. Let's all run away to another thread if they make another comment.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Wow, CPT, invite-only sessions eh? You're a disgusting snob like me. Get ready for the hate mail!
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Bwuuuhaahaahaahaa! Behold the power of the beginner.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
sbhikes, the point that some of us are making is that we go out of our way to create different sorts of sessions to be both exclusive and ***more inclusive.***
In my own case, I'm a founder of an open session, an invite-only session, and a tune learning session (aka "slow session"). The reason for doing all three is to help newcomers improve their abilities with and understanding of this music and so eventually fit in wherever they choose.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
just because a session might be "closed" doesn't mean that we ignore everybody... If you're a traveling musician from Ireland and stumble across the session, or are inspired by the music, introduce yourself to us, and you'll probably be invited in.
"Closed" is a term that maybe gives the wrong impression. "by-invite-only" is better maybe, or "controlled".
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
And don't underestimate the time and energy and money some of us put into encouraging newbies. It's rewarding for all involved.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Pete, you control freak, you....
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I would think that a selective screening like that would be more problematic. Not sure why. In fact I haven't given it any thought at all. I'm thinking now...
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I told you, Dow: licensing. Its the only way to keep ze tradition PURE!
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Yeah, pure and free of *beginners*. *Beginners* - eugh even just saying the word makes me queasy.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Mark, it's an ongoing, fluid thing. "By invite" doesn't mean that "membership" is ever settled. People still come and go. And us core players often disagree on who fits in or not, and why. All part of the push and pull of shaping a session.
I figure it is what it is, and I might be able to tug it in my direction some nights, but then let someone else tug it in their's the next, and so on. Over 10 years or so here, it's gradually evolved into a more mutually satisfying session for all of us.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
"Their's" ???
Hey Mark, where do I sign up for that grammar class?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
sbhikes you ought to change your name to spikes, because that's how you come across - all spikey and jaggy and defensive.
And once again, I don't know whether you don't read the initial post properly or just take out what you want to satisfy your own agenda.
>The problem is when people on the mustard board insist that the exclusivity they enjoy is the only way it is and the only way it should be for every session everywhere.
I think you just plucked that out of mid-air. No-one "insisted" anything of the sort. I asked of members something like where do they draw the lines for in- or ex-clusivity. The only thing that I am reminded of that insists is a tapeworm, which encysts in its host. And that's what you're beginning to sound like, clinging on and malevolently sucking the life out of perfectly healthy and harmless discussions.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Here, sweety. Have a drink from this bottle every time you encounter one. It will calm you down. (keep it well-stoppered in a dark place, and don't mind any burbbling noises)
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
LOL! Call yourself a writer?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
That was to CPT. Will youse stop typing so fast please?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Heh, can you believe people *pay* me to do this?!?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
If you got paid for every word you said on this board you'd be a millionaire by now, Will.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Yeah, you guys. Lay off the caffeine or whatever.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
What, you mean you *don't* get paid, Mark?!
Just like ol' Turloch, ***I*** have a patron. I am a kept man, you see.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I'm just trying to keep you guys honest about your motives. I am not the only one who reads the same tired discusssions about hatred of backers, bodhrans, shaky eggs, beginners, clueless idiots etc. over and over again.
It's really a stupid question in the OP. I mean can I make my party invitations for only the people I actually want to come? Of course you can. So what is your motivation for asking that question here?
I suspect that you guys would rather come here and complain about the bad shaky-egger than actually tell the bad shaky-egger to stop shaking the egg to their face.
And for Exhibit A I quote:
>Oh, I know, re-hashing old discussions just for the sake of posting something, yeah, yeah. But whose ultimate decision, and on what grounds based, is it that a person should be shown the door, if not literally, then by significant silences from the other session players?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Yep, CPT, control freak, that's me! I am also a core member of 1. an invite-only session, 2. an open session (which is maybe the best of the 3), and 3. a tune learning session.
At the tune learning session, we not only teach tunes, but we also talk about all the session etiquette ideas, and try to teach people how not to be ignorant or rude. We encourage people from the tune learning session to get out to the open sessions, and even invite them to our invite-only session!
>>> But people here on the mustard board say stuff like I should stay home, good riddance, etc.
sbhikes, as I was trying to say yesterday, you may be reacting defensively to things that have been said. Other than a few slagging comments (which were generally meant in jest - Dow, you are NOT helping
), I am not sure that I've seen anyone actually tell you to "stay home" or "good riddance".
Everybody here was a beginner once, and believe it or not, even the people that have been playing for 30 years (and may be trying to stir up the discussion on the site) still remember what it was like. Pretty much everyone here is encouraging to beginners.
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
So back to Danny's original query, I wonder if there's some cultural differences that account for how various sessions handle this. Or maybe it's just down to the personalities of the core players.
Most of the sessions I've really participated in in the States spend some time deliberating these sorts of issues. It's like a Vermont town meeting. Maybe it's more implicit and less discussed elsewhere. A less motley culture wouldn't have near as much to deliberate about, I suppose.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Yes, I would encourage them to stay at home.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Sorry Pete, I'll stop. I know you were once one.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
SB, this is just a penchant of Danny's. No harm intended, I'm quite sure (bear in mind that I've been reading Danny's posts here since he joined...sigh
)
It's just the sort of topic that's interesting to us old, tired sessioneers....
So don't let the handful of curmudgeons color your understanding of the abundance of good stuff that happens here.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
CPT, I think you've hit on something there... The cultural differences between the U.S. of A. and Ireland and the U.K. definitely come into play with some of the etiquette. I think part of the session culture is tied in with the social culture of Ireland. So things that may be "common sense" there are things that we have to go out of our way to analyze and deal with on this side of the pond, because we're so far removed from that parent culture.
And the same goes for the music as well. We have to go out of our way to analyze what "makes it sound Irish", when those are things that people who have grown up with exposure to the music don't even think about.
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
And the vanishing cat takes a claws-out swipe at the Englishman with a well placed "sigh"...
(Come on, SWFL, help me out here, I am no good at this play by play stuff...)
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
[Reverend tries to stir by drawing attention to something that might otherwise have gone unnoticed]
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
>>> After all, it IS by the grace of the pub governor that our session is allowed at all.
So KML, do you think the guv would prefer the session to be more inclusive? Do you think they'd get more business from people allowed to bring their tambourines, spoons, shakey eggs, and nose flutes in? Or does the pub want a good, Irish session, that might provide good ambience for what they're trying to accomplish to pull in a certain demographic of customer?
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
the caffeine must have worn off...
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Hey, my claws were *in*!!!
meow
Seriously, I was just trying to point out that Danny likes to discuss these things, and apparently so do some of us. I doubt he had any ulterior motive, and it sounds like his own session is welcoming and quite encouraging (until a person proves to be incorrigible).
I also think it can be hard for a newcomer to sessions to understand just how thoroughly awful some people sometimes behave at sessions, and how disheartening it is to have your evening ruined by a clod. Case in point is the guy who showed up at a session here in Montana with two large rocks, plucked from the bottom of the river. He proceeded to "play" them, for percussion.
Okay, on one set, it was funny, maybe even interesting. But as the night wore on (and it became clear that he could not find the beat much less keep it), persisted in playing along on every tune. I do not at all blame the anchor (not me) for finally telling the guy to put the stones back in his pants pockets and return them to whence they came.
Until you've dealt with this kind of train wreck, and then dealt with it again and again, it's hard to see the context that threads like this come from.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
That river rock story is far better than the snare drum guy that pops up randomly in our town. But our Rain Stick Lady is in the same league, although not quite as disruptive. It is hard to play a reel with beebees cascading next to your ear.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
>>> It is hard to play a reel with beebees cascading next to your ear.
So, why doesn't it stop? Is your session that inclusive? Is nobody willing to say anything? Is the person so fun to hang out with that you just put up with it?
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
"Saint, why is it that whenever people are having a reasonable discussion you have to butt in with an insult - btw in this case insulting someone who hasn't even participated in the thread yet. How sad. I would be so glad if you were never to post here again. Unfortunately it seems you are here to stay."
Dow you don't really mean this! ,but to answer your question its only you and one or two others because when I started on this site you made little of everything I said and I don't forget or let things go that easy and now that you have learnt that you tried to bully the wrong person its to late but remember I only retaliate you pick on the weak.
I suppose "the six inch club" is a selective group.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I punched her out and placed her rain stick where it belonged.
NO. Just joking. I stopped going to that one for other reasons; it was the only game it town for quite a while, so I put up with them and they put up with me. Now I play in an EXCLUSIVE session; an invitation or six pack of the correct beer gets you in. Actually, it's a house session, and no rainsticks are to be found. I always bring beer so that they'll put up with me.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
So I go to lunch, I come back to work. I make a few calls, pound on the keyboard a bit, check back into thesession.org and...HOLY COW!
Rev. Pete, you are doing a fantastic job with the play by play. Buster Bodhran couldn't have done better, even if he had been able to pull himself out of that job he's got covering the 29th Annual Scotch Drinking and Midget Tossing competition in Aberdeenerneck, Scotland. He does send word he'll be back soon, and may even offer to play the midget for you at your next open session. He said something about learning Planxty Irwin on the midget...?
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Everyone's short when standing next to the Reverend.....
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Fortunately, I'm always sitting down when playing the banjo.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I like the language annalogy reverend. I'm sick of people on this website talking like they're gonna catch the plauge from beginers. Stop moaning. Everybody has to start somewhere and you might just be dicouraging people who could end up better players then you!!! yes it could happen!!! Stop acting like your onipitant your not.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
"discouraging"
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I like that "discouraging"
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Buster's instruments thank for you sitting! They're a little self-conscious, all that tossing, you understand.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I've spent the last couple of days trying to convince a few people on this site that nobody is trying to discourage them.
Pretty much every single person that I have met in person in the Irish music community has been encouraging to me to one degree or another. (including a boatload thesession.org members) Sometimes that encouragement came in the form of suggestions that I didn't want to hear. When I first started out, I constantly ignored suggestions from people who were more experienced than I was - most specifically, my wife. She used to talk *other people* into telling me things that I needed to hear because I rejected them when they came from her - lol.
People who are inexperienced at playing Irish music often come to this site and expect to fit in and be welcomed with open arms. You don't hop into a new group of people and get accepted immediately in very many situations.
And when people offer you suggestions, such as "avoid sheet music when you're first starting out", those suggestions are given because people are trying to help. You have to take those suggestions at face value - consider the sources, and decide how much stock to put into them. But if you get defensive when someone tells you that you should do something different, you're not going to learn anything. If you get riled up by assuming that things are personal attacks, you're missing the point.
Listen, slagging seems to be a natural thing amongst friends in Irish music. There are several of us on this site that are friends, and we never stop teasing, joking, poking fun, and taking the p*ss. So get used to it - it's part of how we have fun here.
There are some legitimate personality conflicts amongst members of this site, and while that's unfortunate, it's also inevitable. Get used to it, it's not going to change.
But if you look past all the chaff on this forum, it is chock full of extremely good advice and discussion. Filter it, reject some of it, and learn from the rest of it, but don't get all personally worked up about stuff that feels negative to you - it's not worth it. [/rambling rant]
Pete
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I'm not here to make friends Pete. I have enough of them so i'm not expecting to be welcome with open arms but generaly at least in my point of view, when you meet new people they are at least polite even if they dont like you.
I if i was that easily offended i wouldnt keep coming back would I? I have gotten invaluable advise from some people here and i do apreciate it.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
As long as you realize that there are some people that ARE here to make friends, or at least be friends with the people that they've known here for years. And you have to realize that not everybody in this world is going to be polite!
But my point was really that a lot of what is taken as impoliteness here is people misunderstanding of people poking fun. And when people get defensive, that just riles up the pokers even more.
BTW, Lolly, my rant was a general one, and not aimed directly at you or anyone else. It was a shotgun blast, meant to spread the message far and wide
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Oh great. Now I have beebees lodged under my thin skin...geesh, it was bad enough when they were stuck in the rainstick. :-|
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Oh come on, CPT, I'm not THAT rude... I just load the shells with rock salt to make it sting a bit
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Owwwwwwwww. Pete. You are just mean. :-o
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Batlady
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Mmmm...I wouldn't say I'm here to make friends either actually, nor enemies, but I couldn't @rsed with people who start hurling abuse just because they get paranoid thinking every thread I post is anti-learner. In my initial post I put this clearly as the question:
"And should exclusivity be only against learners? After all, it is possible to get a reasonable musician who happens to be a complete knobhead, completely out of sync with the zeitgheist of the session."
In other words, new people in this music are fine (if they know their place in the scheme of things), often it can be a relatively skilled player who is the pain in the hole.
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
How funny, I stopped frequenting this site about 4 and 1/2 years ago. Conversations are destined to be rehashed through out the years. Oddly enough though, my opinions have also changed.
I just went to O’Flaherty’s retreat in North Texas a few weekends ago. It was great fun. Most of my friends were participating either as instructors, performing musicians or even as the staff. The leader of the event explained a major concept behind it. He wanted everyone to get the idea that Irish musicians and ITM sessions are inclusive, open and helpful. As a result, some truly awesome players have sprouted out of this area in the very short period of three years. Imagine taking some folk and encouraging them to a point that they feel very welcome and appreciated. Imagine making it so fun for them that they are hooked for life. On a humorous note, when I showed up as a beginner at his door step about 15 years ago, It was just as hard to get through it as it would’ve been anywhere else.
Here is a thought, if you want to hold closed sessions, go for it. On top of that, how about investing some of your energy into starting a beginner session? How about an intermediate session. How about a session to bridge the huge gap between intermediate and advanced. Maybe these sessions meet once a month. Perhaps you can get one or two of the advanced players to attend these monthly events and change off. The beginners can be taught right, everyone gets more out of the sessions and no one gets offended when there is a closed session where everyone gets on a tear.
Eh?
Now please – be sure to blast away. I am guilty of being both the inconvenient beginner and the ruthless advanced player.
Mark
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Mark Cordova
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Hello Mr. Cordova;
I had to look up the location for O'Flarhety's Retreat.
Sounds like fun. It has been a bit more than 4 1/2 years since I was in Midlothian. I cannot imagined it changed much . . . in 2 or 3 decades.
Cheers!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Mark, you'll notice that the two people who have posted in this thread that they have "invite-only" sessions also run tune learning sessions
Pete
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
& of course Pete you will notice there would be no mention of that fact without young Mark's prompting.
Welcome back!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Heh heh Muse - I don't think it has changed much at all but the retreat is having a profound impact on the area musicians.
I'd recommend it to anyone but who's going to listen to me. However, it might be a good idea to see who the instructors were who taught some of the intermediate classes and most of the advanced classes.
Mark
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Mark Cordova
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Sorry Pete, I think I was too overwhelmed by the energy of the dissension to catch that.
Muse - I like 'Young Mark' I think I'll keep it.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Mark Cordova
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
It was not easy. . . but I think I can safely say the 2 are Reverend & Cheshire Puddy Tat. Anyone else in that gang?
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
You would be correct on that, Muse, but CPT and I both also mentioned it earlier in this thread. So the only people in this thread that have explicitly said they run "closed" sessions, also have said that they run tune learning sessions. That's an example of how pretty much everybody I have met in Irish traditional music has been encouraging, like I was saying...
Pete
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
A week in Cyprus and I've got the best tan in Bude. Eddie. Dow is a petulant, prima-donna-ish drama queen who thinks he knows it all and he's barely, if at all, out of short pants. It's actually quite good fun to not ignore him. A good dose of the ol' north-easter from straight off the North Sea right up those short pants would very quickly divest him of some of those fancy-pants ideas he's picked up from his exile in pampered Fostersville. I would be so glad if he were never to post here again but it does look like he's here to stay, so give not a monkey's mickey for the poor chap is my advice.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Sorry Pete you lost me. Are you suggesting I read the entire thread? Or are you making a point. I get lost pretty easy.
Sorry.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Ahh, there's a perfect example of the "personality conflicts" that I was talking about. I just wish that when people clashed, they wouldn't try to trash someone's knowledge or playing ability when they don't know what they're talking about...
And yeah, Muse, I generally expect people to read the thread before they chime in
Pete
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Surely not - I don't even read some of the contributions -even my own...
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Hey rev, is that me you're on upon there? Did I trash his knowledge (which I've bowed down in awe of at least once) or playing ability (which I've never mentioned as I don't think we've ever played within 10,000 miles of each other!)? Calm down old chap! Your mate's perfectly safe!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Pete
Its not a personality clash its an instrument clash ,Dow hates the Bodhran an Instrument I love and have put hours into and has little or no respect for people who play it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there's a way of putting it. I have dow sussed out now so he doesn't really bother me anymore.It used to bother me when I tried to have a conversation but my opinion didn't matter because I was a bodhran player ,it used to bother me when a newcomer got up the courage to post a question and Dow and the "six inch club" make little of the question with nasty comments(not humour) but I am one of few that was bothered by this.
Anyway these closed session seem to be mainly outside Ireland ,I've yet to come across one in Ireland .I think these closed sessions are organised by people who don't want to be out classed by newcomers.Its a self created safety zone.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Eddie, I live in the States, in the center of the middle of no where, and even I know of several "closed" sessions in Ireland. Each of them was started by the highest caliber players in hopes of having some tunes in relative peace.
I'm not saying this to be mean or disparaging--I've never heard you play. But it is possible that you don't know of any closed sessions in Ireland because you haven't been invited to one (yet).
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Erm, meaning that that's the nature of a closed session--only the invited know about them. Many occur in private kitchens. Those that happen in pubs are often disguised as gigs.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Saint! You've never "tried to have a conversation" with me. In fact, sorry to say this, but you've contributed nothing of use to this website at all. Of course your opinion doesn't matter. It is totally inconsequential. Even less than Steve Shaw and that's saying something. At least he plays a musical instrument...
And about there not being closed sessions in Ireland. My immediate reaction was like Will's, only in my case, I mean to be mean and disparaging. Sorry that we have to break this to you Saint, but it's probably the case that these sessions exist and it's just that you've never been invited to one. People who get invited to closed sessions tend to be people who play music on musical instruments. Why are you surprised that you've never heard tell of one? Sorry, but they're all keeping them secret from you! What do you think you could possibly contribute to a nice little closed session? People have closed sessions to get away from bodhran players like you! That's the whole point of them! Why would you purposely invite one? It's like inviting a paedophile to your 4 year old's birthday party.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Six inch club ay saint?! you know where you can stick that tipper of yours........... look out he is getting out the morris men sticks!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Uh Oh,
The boys have woken up together and Tombo is writing that on Dowsies lap.
The two of them chuclking away.
Tombo running his fingers through Dows......
oops
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
6" is a good length for a penknife......
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
ha ha ha, sorry couldn't help myself! I like bodhrans...really!!!!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Hungry Grass on Clare FM
A quick heads up - The Hungries with Kane O'Rourke and Christian Vaughan Spruce were first track on Ronan Burke's Thar Droichead Sall from last Thursday, if anyone's interested
http://www.clarefm.ie/
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Thanks Key Maniac Lad!!! legend!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Tombo and Dow If I had a smaller IQ I might be able to enjoy a conversation with ye.
As for closed sessions I was talking about in pubs,I know there's alot of sessions in peoples homes.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Well, no, I don't think IQ goes into negative figures, Saint, but maybe for bodhran players it does?
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Hugo, glad to see you're providing titillating entertainment for any homophobic lurkers here to snigger at. Well done. I look forward to the day when you can say something constructive and interesting.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
How do you know I play a musical instrument? If someone asks me what I play I say Irish music. If they ask me what on, I say Fridays at the Tree or The Maltsters. If they say no, I mean what do you PLAY I say Irish music...
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Well said Dow. It's all getting a bit infantile round here now. I'm out of it. See ye's!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I'm genuinely sorry about your thread, Danny. It was fine and we were having a civilised, interesting discussion until certain people arrived
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
"I would be so glad if you were never to post here again. Unfortunately it seems you are here to stay."
Danny do you expect me to let that go ,If so maybe you would want to grow up.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Please just stop it Saint.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
You stop posting nasty comments after mine and I'll stop ,It takes two to tango.I spend most of my time trying to make people you miserable so its up to you.It does nt bother me.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Saint I am not usually this forward or rude but you really are the most infantile, ridiculous, ignorant up yourself bodhran player around, get a grip of your tipper and maybe removed from where the last muso stuck ay! and I would not be frighten to say that to your face either! Dow is a million times the man you will ever be...well thats it i am out of this for a while! cheers to all!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by fiddly dee fiddly doo oh how all take it so seriously!
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Tombo captain of the "six inch club" I can make your life miserable to . But I will give you the option to say sorry and put things behind us.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Saint, in all seriousness, please stop.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Hey guys, I've got a great idea. Let's get all progressive and New Testament-y and have a "turn the other cheek" competition. Or do you want to keep ploughing that boring old destructive "An eye for an eye" furrow?
Please don't crucify me for suggesting this.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
I think that's a great idea, Danny. Anything just to get him to shut the fk up.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Dow
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Are we all bound and determined to prove KML's point that a forum open to any and all can often be ruined?
Sigh.......
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Done
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Last word, anyone?
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Ontology?
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by wolfbird
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Al, yes, I was also struck by the parallels.
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
After days of slaving away, the pot is stirred, and it's soup!
Pete
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
primaeval soup at that
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
It's all pally ontology now!
# Posted on November 8th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Interesting that this was the longest recent discussion.........
Not sure that I like the implied reference to a balding, rug and glitter-wearing convict.
I do hope he's not getting any royalties from this.
Which leads me back to a previous remark;
If Henry VIII wrote Greensleeves, then the royalties go to royalty;
But if God wrote it, do the deities go to deity ?
# Posted on November 9th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
And is God just a deity old man?
# Posted on November 9th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Pete
>No, I'm not waxing lyrical over any former popstar turned convicted paedophile.
- was the first sentence of this thread, if you'd care to scroll to the top. So I wasn't referencing Gary per se. However, the phrase in the title is now so ubiquitous and catchy, it is now part of the furniture of our common vocabulary.
# Posted on November 9th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
That's all right then.
# Posted on November 9th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
oh thanks
# Posted on November 9th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
uhhh
no
I don't want to be in your gang
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
good
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
Get mad? Check.
Be nasty? Check.
Make funnies? Check
Whew, deadly thread, good stuff.
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
last word is........................horse
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Saint
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
How's it going Horse?
Ca va, cheval?
Que tal, caballo?
# Posted on November 10th 2007 by Nick Splease
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
We've been having precisely the same discussion here with our little session group. We'd love to get more people in, however there is one instrument that in quantities of two or more will take over the session. No, and it's not bodhrans. Unfortunately I also play this mystery instrument but stick to a guitar. Anyway, our circle of contacts make it difficult to pass around information or contact fiddlers, concertina players, etc. without making contact with beginners. Looking at what I've just wrote it sounds like I'm a snob but there are different levels of playing and we don't want to spend a lot of precious time instructing or reverting back to D tunes. What we finally did was to publish a tune list and hand it out. If the player takes the time to work up the tunes they're in. We have a basic tune list along with a more advanced list. We also take it upon ourselves to work up a monthly tune that we can take a lead on. That usually scares off anyone that is a beginner. "Yeah, come on in but check out the book or the website first." takes care of a lot of problems.
# Posted on November 11th 2007 by jrathbun
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
"reverting back to D tunes" ??? - are you suggesting they are inferior or for beginners?
# Posted on November 14th 2007 by domnull
Re: Wanna be in my gang my gang my gang?
what like G tunes? , or Em tunes? or Am........etc. you rather play in Bb? Eb Ab ? or what?
# Posted on November 14th 2007 by the wicked hacker