Some thirty plus years ago, (the olden days), Planxty had an album with a Polka set, Denis Murphys / John Ryans / $40 Float. (pound sterling)
Or it may have been DM and $40 listed as track 12 and JR as Track 13, I don't know as I don't have the album.
The problem is JR and the Float are two names for the same tune. The album sleeve is misprinted.
Fair enough but can anyone tell me the name of The Middle Polka? It's as common a hell but it seems a generation has grown up without knowing the name.
I know I'm probably get in trouble for requesting a tune here but I'm not really. I'm requesting a name.
I'll bet my fiddle the tune is in here, but under what handle?
I have requested it in the Tune section but it's too small for this story.
Thanx
The turtle
Also known as 40 Pound Float, Armagh, The Armagh, Da-da, Death From Above, Forty Pound Float, Forty Pound Floiat, Hiils Of Connemara, Jack Ryan's, John Ryan's, Johnny Ryan's, Keadue, The Keadue, Psycho, Sean Ryan's."(& the Dum Dum Polka)
I recognise "The Middle Polka" as I've heard it many times and it's not one of the tunes listed on your link above or on the original sleeve.
Someone MUST know the right name for the tune that gets played with Murphy's and The £40 Float? The three of them get flogged on any given Saturday night on ......how many continents are there?
And they called the currency that because it rhymes with bank manager.
Dafydd, can you put the set on and listen to it please. The last tune starts DUM DUM, data data Duh Dah That's the £42 Cheque. The LAST tune. The "Middle Polka" is not listed on the sleeve.
In the original hand written studio notes Ryans and the Cheque were written down as alternate names as people knew the tune by more than one name.
The name of "The Middle Polka" escaped everyone at the moment. Now as we had three tunes and three names, probably in the hand writing of a band member, the mistake was over looked and it went to the printers.
So my friend, with apologies to Shrek's Donkey, it most certainly am are a misprint.
The only other thing I can think of to prove this is to ask you search for John Ryans sheet music on any Trad site like this one.
Then play it. It's the £40 Float. If you know it as John Ryans, then search for the Float. Play that and it's John Ryan's.
The last tune in the set.
Just listened to the track.Three polkas,Dennis Murphy's/The £42 Cheque/ John Ryan's. The middle polka is listed on the sleeve and I'll quote from the notes.
"We play three polkas next,Dennis Murphy's Polka,The £42 Cheque and one we don't know the name of,however we heard it from John Ryan,a concertina player from Co.Clare who used to have a public house in Dublin."
Are they referring to the second or third tune? I think it's the third and they called it John Ryan's.
I don't see the problem. Like everyone is trying to tell you it's Dennis Murphy's /The £42 Cheque /John Ryan's. The last "dum dum" tune is John Ryan's. No point in requesting any of the tunes for the tunes section as they're already here:
Dafydd, thank you. You've ended a considerable search for me. All my search's have been using the words John Ryans or Float.
As soon as I changed to Cheque I had the right tune. It seem's to have caused a long standing "error" in Australia. The tune you have listed as Ryans is universally know as the Float here.
Thanks Dow.
But you've got them backwards too. 441 is Ryans and 786 is The Four Pound Float (£42 Cheque) That's the one I get when I search for 42 cheque.
Not hard to get confused.
To hell with this - it's past 1.00 am here - I'm off to bed.
Re: error in Australia - the same thing confused me when I moved to Australia. People kept going on about how they hated the "cheque/float" tune which I always knew as John Ryan's. I think the mix up might have come from sessions at the Harp in Tempe, Sydney, where the "cheque/float" name got applied to the "dum dum" tune, or the error might have come from sessions in Canberra and then been transferred to Sydney.
That's all I know about it anyway. Maybe there's another recording with an error in the sleeve notes. There were some differences between the LP and CD liner notes and between reissues etc (an example is Planxty's After The Break where the CD issue has an extra track not included on the LP version). That polka set also appears on the Planxty Collection. Maybe one of the names doesn't appear on the liner notes of the LP version of one of the albums or something.
I just checked an online discography and look at this - the listing for Planxty Collection does not include the 3rd polka John Ryan's. Maybe this is where the confusion stems from regarding the name of the "dum dum" tune. Anyone with the album check this?
The Planxty collection
* title: The Planxty collection
* artists: Members of Planxty
* producer: Phil Coulter for Martin-Coulter Enterprises
* engineer: Barry Ainsworth
* tracks:
A-side:
o The Jolly Beggar - Reel
o Merrily Kissed The Quaker
o The Lakes of Pontchartrain
o The Blacksmith
o The Hare in The Corn / The Frost is All Over / The Gander in The Pratie Hole
o Cliffs of Dooneen
B-side:
o Cunla
o Pat Reilly
o Bean Pháidín
o Raggle Taggle Gypsy - Tabhair Dom Do Lámh
o Denis Murphy's Polka/The £42 Cheque
o As I Roved Out
* order no: Polydor (LP/C)
The easiest (and very acceptable) solution is for everybody to agree never to play this set in a session again. Or the shorter set with tunes #1 and #3 only that everyone around here seems to play.
Didn't Johnny Moynihan write one of the three? Can someone check with him?
A misprint on the Australin sleeve? I don't think so. I'm sure we simply imported a couple of boxs from the empires stock to the colonies. The size of the entire Australian order for a decade wouldn't be worth a new print run.
I don't have the sleeve to read, only an emailed mp3 of the set. When you "read out" what they had in the notes, it was obvious there was room to misread which tune they refer to. And I'm fairly sure that's what has happened here for a long time.
We're a long way from the source here and back then, no internet.
We have a tune book here called Begged Borrowed and Stolen which became, for want of anything better, something of a newbies almanac. Accuracy is NOT it's strong suit. It's riddled with error.
In it Ryans is titled The £40 Float. The Four Pound Float (£42 Cheque) is NOT in it. Hundreds of people have learnt the tune by ear and called it John Ryans. This has gone on for decades.
Many here have little good to say about the BBS.
Search for John Ryans or The £40 Float and you will get Ryans, what we call the Float. No Cheque.
I hope that clears it up. Hee hee hee.
Thanx again.
Yes, I'm with you Dow. And I used to love them all.
It's painful when the backing guitarist(s) strum once for each "Dum" and leave a gap for the other notes. Who decided that was the way to do it? Not Planxty.
There is no mistake on the original LP which I have on the Polydor label if I remember . If you've got a recording made later - eg "The Planxty Collection", or a subsequent CD recording, then the mistake is on it - end of story.
PS - if it'll help end this discussion, Planxty played at Dundee University in 1976. I heard Andy Irvine introduce the 3 polkas, as listed on the LP version of "Cold, Blow etc". So there's no mistake, that was : "Denis Murphy's" followed by "The 42 Pound Cheque" followed by "John Ryan's" - is that clear enough ?
I may even still have the recording of him introducing them. Did the originator of this query ever hear Planxty live ?
How could you live with yourself after being responsible for introducing the world to a set like that? It's a wonder Andy Irvine and the rest even dare to show their faces in public these days
Nonsense, Dow. I have my own reasons for not being Andy Irvine's biggest fan, but those are neat little tunes and you'd probably still like them if you, like me, hadn't been subjected to them once or twice, or even more, weekly for, in my case, literally a couple of decades.
Ah Dow, but back then it hadn't quite been bludgeoned to death yet, right? Perhaps if they had known in advance what was to come?
It does make a lovely set though, and I encourage learners to pick up the first and third tune as a set when they're starting out and it's still played at our sessions...uh-oh. That makes me partially responsible for it's proliferation as well. [hangs head in shame]
Hing oan - the memory is still good, but far from infallible. I heard Planxty in Cambridge, Dundee, Aberdeen, Irvine and Inverness, and the line-up changed quite a bit between those gigs. I'm not sure Andy Irvine was at Dundee - I seem to remember Paul Brady being there, Johnny Moynihan certainly was. I do remember a set of polkas being played, but the "Ballydesmond" was included, I think following the "£42 Cheque", so that set had changed from the record. I'll hunt out the recording. I am pretty sure they played the polka set when they played in Irvine, the same set as on the LP, and introduced as such.
"Ptarmigan" - weren't you at the Planxty Dundee gig ? Help me out here, please.
In response to your request, I did take a look at my LP of Planxty Collection, and it does indeed list all three tunes (contarary to the online discography you saw).
Yes, I remember when they added Ballydesmond No. 2 to the end of the set.
We try to restrain ourselves at our sessions, and not play more than two of these tunes in a row, but they are infectious.
And of course, £42 cheque must be the only trad tune composed on the bouzouki !
Old timer Planxty fans
Old timer Planxty fans
Some thirty plus years ago, (the olden days), Planxty had an album with a Polka set, Denis Murphys / John Ryans / $40 Float. (pound sterling)
Or it may have been DM and $40 listed as track 12 and JR as Track 13, I don't know as I don't have the album.
The problem is JR and the Float are two names for the same tune. The album sleeve is misprinted.
Fair enough but can anyone tell me the name of The Middle Polka? It's as common a hell but it seems a generation has grown up without knowing the name.
I know I'm probably get in trouble for requesting a tune here but I'm not really. I'm requesting a name.
I'll bet my fiddle the tune is in here, but under what handle?
I have requested it in the Tune section but it's too small for this story.
Thanx
The turtle
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/49
No mistakes there - "£42 Cheque" is the middle one.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Thanx for the reply Kenny but I gotta differ. I know that's what's written but it just ain't so.
I know Denis Murphy's and Ryans / Cheque / Float to play.
I have an mp3 file of the set from a friend who has Cold Blow the Rainy Night.
John Ryan's Polka, The £42 Cheque and The £40 Float are all the same tune. Just different names.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/441
"Ryan's (polka)
Also known as 40 Pound Float, Armagh, The Armagh, Da-da, Death From Above, Forty Pound Float, Forty Pound Floiat, Hiils Of Connemara, Jack Ryan's, John Ryan's, Johnny Ryan's, Keadue, The Keadue, Psycho, Sean Ryan's."(& the Dum Dum Polka)
I recognise "The Middle Polka" as I've heard it many times and it's not one of the tunes listed on your link above or on the original sleeve.
Someone MUST know the right name for the tune that gets played with Murphy's and The £40 Float? The three of them get flogged on any given Saturday night on ......how many continents are there?
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
I've just dug the album out of the archives.Dennis Murphy's /The £42 Cheque /John Ryan's.No misprint on my copy.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Can you play the three of them?
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
The £42 pound isn`t in english pounds, it`s in fact 42 Punts.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by iluvpints
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Yes I can play them.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
And they called the currency that because it rhymes with bank manager.
Dafydd, can you put the set on and listen to it please. The last tune starts DUM DUM, data data Duh Dah That's the £42 Cheque. The LAST tune. The "Middle Polka" is not listed on the sleeve.
In the original hand written studio notes Ryans and the Cheque were written down as alternate names as people knew the tune by more than one name.
The name of "The Middle Polka" escaped everyone at the moment. Now as we had three tunes and three names, probably in the hand writing of a band member, the mistake was over looked and it went to the printers.
So my friend, with apologies to Shrek's Donkey, it most certainly am are a misprint.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
This is The £42 Cheque
http://tunedb.woodenflute.com/tunedb/tune_details_results.html?tune_id=1812&tune_name=42%20Pound%20Check%2C%20The
And here is John Ryan's Polka
http://tunedb.woodenflute.com/tunedb/tune_details_results.html?tune_id=6746&tune_name=John%20Ryan%27s%20Polka
Different tunes.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
The only other thing I can think of to prove this is to ask you search for John Ryans sheet music on any Trad site like this one.
Then play it. It's the £40 Float. If you know it as John Ryans, then search for the Float. Play that and it's John Ryan's.
The last tune in the set.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
OK you've stopped me there. Let me play that
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Just listened to the track.Three polkas,Dennis Murphy's/The £42 Cheque/ John Ryan's. The middle polka is listed on the sleeve and I'll quote from the notes.
"We play three polkas next,Dennis Murphy's Polka,The £42 Cheque and one we don't know the name of,however we heard it from John Ryan,a concertina player from Co.Clare who used to have a public house in Dublin."
Are they referring to the second or third tune? I think it's the third and they called it John Ryan's.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
By the way The £40 Float is a reel that Steeleye Span used to play.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
I don't see the problem. Like everyone is trying to tell you it's Dennis Murphy's /The £42 Cheque /John Ryan's. The last "dum dum" tune is John Ryan's. No point in requesting any of the tunes for the tunes section as they're already here:
Dennis Murphy's http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/357
The £42 Cheque http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/441
John Ryan's http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/786
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Re John Ryan's - I think the real name of the "dum dum" tune is the Keadue Polka.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
My mistake,it was The £10 Float.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Dafydd, thank you. You've ended a considerable search for me. All my search's have been using the words John Ryans or Float.
As soon as I changed to Cheque I had the right tune. It seem's to have caused a long standing "error" in Australia. The tune you have listed as Ryans is universally know as the Float here.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Thanks Dow.
But you've got them backwards too. 441 is Ryans and 786 is The Four Pound Float (£42 Cheque) That's the one I get when I search for 42 cheque.
Not hard to get confused.
To hell with this - it's past 1.00 am here - I'm off to bed.
Thanks to all for your help.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Sorry I got them in the wrong order
Dennis Murphy's http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/357
The £42 Cheque http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/786
John Ryan's http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/441
As if it needed to be any more confusing!
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
How did this confusion start? Is there
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
a misprint on the Australian sleeve?
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by dafydd
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Oops cross post.
Re: error in Australia - the same thing confused me when I moved to Australia. People kept going on about how they hated the "cheque/float" tune which I always knew as John Ryan's. I think the mix up might have come from sessions at the Harp in Tempe, Sydney, where the "cheque/float" name got applied to the "dum dum" tune, or the error might have come from sessions in Canberra and then been transferred to Sydney.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
That's all I know about it anyway. Maybe there's another recording with an error in the sleeve notes. There were some differences between the LP and CD liner notes and between reissues etc (an example is Planxty's After The Break where the CD issue has an extra track not included on the LP version). That polka set also appears on the Planxty Collection. Maybe one of the names doesn't appear on the liner notes of the LP version of one of the albums or something.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
I just checked an online discography and look at this - the listing for Planxty Collection does not include the 3rd polka John Ryan's. Maybe this is where the confusion stems from regarding the name of the "dum dum" tune. Anyone with the album check this?
The Planxty collection
* title: The Planxty collection
* artists: Members of Planxty
* producer: Phil Coulter for Martin-Coulter Enterprises
* engineer: Barry Ainsworth
* tracks:
A-side:
o The Jolly Beggar - Reel
o Merrily Kissed The Quaker
o The Lakes of Pontchartrain
o The Blacksmith
o The Hare in The Corn / The Frost is All Over / The Gander in The Pratie Hole
o Cliffs of Dooneen
B-side:
o Cunla
o Pat Reilly
o Bean Pháidín
o Raggle Taggle Gypsy - Tabhair Dom Do Lámh
o Denis Murphy's Polka/The £42 Cheque
o As I Roved Out
* order no: Polydor (LP/C)
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
The easiest (and very acceptable) solution is for everybody to agree never to play this set in a session again. Or the shorter set with tunes #1 and #3 only that everyone around here seems to play.
Didn't Johnny Moynihan write one of the three? Can someone check with him?
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by grego
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
I like the middle one. It would be nice if the other two ceased to exist though, especially the "dum dum" one.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
A misprint on the Australin sleeve? I don't think so. I'm sure we simply imported a couple of boxs from the empires stock to the colonies. The size of the entire Australian order for a decade wouldn't be worth a new print run.
I don't have the sleeve to read, only an emailed mp3 of the set. When you "read out" what they had in the notes, it was obvious there was room to misread which tune they refer to. And I'm fairly sure that's what has happened here for a long time.
We're a long way from the source here and back then, no internet.
We have a tune book here called Begged Borrowed and Stolen which became, for want of anything better, something of a newbies almanac. Accuracy is NOT it's strong suit. It's riddled with error.
In it Ryans is titled The £40 Float. The Four Pound Float (£42 Cheque) is NOT in it. Hundreds of people have learnt the tune by ear and called it John Ryans. This has gone on for decades.
Many here have little good to say about the BBS.
Search for John Ryans or The £40 Float and you will get Ryans, what we call the Float. No Cheque.
I hope that clears it up. Hee hee hee.
Thanx again.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by turtleneckbreath
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Yes, I'm with you Dow. And I used to love them all.
It's painful when the backing guitarist(s) strum once for each "Dum" and leave a gap for the other notes. Who decided that was the way to do it? Not Planxty.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by grego
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Oh, but going "DUM DUM" on that one loudly makes all the punters 'ooo' and 'ahh', which is the main goal anyway, right? [drips with sarcasm]
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
There is no mistake on the original LP which I have on the Polydor label if I remember . If you've got a recording made later - eg "The Planxty Collection", or a subsequent CD recording, then the mistake is on it - end of story.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
I've never bought either of those albums, the reason being that they both include that polka set
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
PS - if it'll help end this discussion, Planxty played at Dundee University in 1976. I heard Andy Irvine introduce the 3 polkas, as listed on the LP version of "Cold, Blow etc". So there's no mistake, that was : "Denis Murphy's" followed by "The 42 Pound Cheque" followed by "John Ryan's" - is that clear enough ?
I may even still have the recording of him introducing them. Did the originator of this query ever hear Planxty live ?
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
God, Kenny - that's an incredible memory you have!
Fair play!
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by grego
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
How could you live with yourself after being responsible for introducing the world to a set like that? It's a wonder Andy Irvine and the rest even dare to show their faces in public these days
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Nonsense, Dow. I have my own reasons for not being Andy Irvine's biggest fan, but those are neat little tunes and you'd probably still like them if you, like me, hadn't been subjected to them once or twice, or even more, weekly for, in my case, literally a couple of decades.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
[forgot to ad:
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# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Ah Dow, but back then it hadn't quite been bludgeoned to death yet, right? Perhaps if they had known in advance what was to come?
It does make a lovely set though, and I encourage learners to pick up the first and third tune as a set when they're starting out and it's still played at our sessions...uh-oh. That makes me partially responsible for it's proliferation as well. [hangs head in shame]
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Hing oan - the memory is still good, but far from infallible. I heard Planxty in Cambridge, Dundee, Aberdeen, Irvine and Inverness, and the line-up changed quite a bit between those gigs. I'm not sure Andy Irvine was at Dundee - I seem to remember Paul Brady being there, Johnny Moynihan certainly was. I do remember a set of polkas being played, but the "Ballydesmond" was included, I think following the "£42 Cheque", so that set had changed from the record. I'll hunt out the recording. I am pretty sure they played the polka set when they played in Irvine, the same set as on the LP, and introduced as such.
"Ptarmigan" - weren't you at the Planxty Dundee gig ? Help me out here, please.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Back then I wouldn't have been able to tell a polka from a jig, with or without the dots.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
SWFL - why leave out the middle one? I know everyone seems to do that, but I don't understand the reason. To my mind it's the nicest one.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by grego
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Because you don't make a sandwich with stale bread.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Very poetic, Dow. I like that.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by grego
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
That's exactly why, grego, because "everyone" I play with "seems to do that" so...
...though Dow's response is the best. That was a good'un.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Grego,
You are right.
Moynihan composed the £42 cheque.
He told me it was an amalgamation of lots of other tunes that were in his head....
Thats the middle one.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Sorry Kenny, unfortunately for me, I only ever saw Planxty once, & that was when Logan & I saw their After the Break concert in the Usher Hall.
I probably have a tape of that night, somewhere. ????
I do remember Logan took some rather cool close up photos of the band.
I only remember seeing De Dannen in Dundee.
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Ptarmigan
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Dow,
In response to your request, I did take a look at my LP of Planxty Collection, and it does indeed list all three tunes (contarary to the online discography you saw).
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by Jameson Stew
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Yes, I remember when they added Ballydesmond No. 2 to the end of the set.
We try to restrain ourselves at our sessions, and not play more than two of these tunes in a row, but they are infectious.
And of course, £42 cheque must be the only trad tune composed on the bouzouki !
# Posted on October 31st 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Thanks Jameson Stew, cool. Now can you wash my dishes for me?
# Posted on October 31st 2007 by Dow
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/786
turtle..etc - why have you posted a request for this tune, when we've already told you it - plus the other 2 - are already here ?
# Posted on October 31st 2007 by Kenny
Re: Old timer Planxty fans
Dow,
Email them to me and I'll see what I can do.
# Posted on October 31st 2007 by Jameson Stew