Seems to me it's pretty much a group effort, with even good old Ed Sullivan helping out. With only a few million Irish left in Ireland, I'm sure they're happy to have all the help they can get from the rest of us, so let's all just keep on saving Irish music!
What a rubbish topic. Might I guess that the poster is 'Mercan?
I might be mistaken but I think I've read a post here (or possibly on C&F) that said "This is where ITM truely lives". That is so funny and so sad on so many levels.
'Your suffering from a slight dose of tunnelvision'
It could be successfully argued that Irish music is part of a wider culture and social interaction that encompasses a lot more than sitting in pubs playing tunes learned off the Internet.
Taking one element, music, away from the culture it is not only rooted in but an integral part of is hardly 'spreading the tradition'.
It's somehow ironic this site likes to call the wider vision 'backward thinking' (on another thread recently) or 'tunnel vision'.
Well, I don't know about "saved," but it was The Chieftains that first brought Irish music to my attention.
Irish music actually led us to a honeymoon in Ireland back in 1982. While there, we loaded up on recordings that we couldn't get then in the U.S. It was a few more years before we were seeing very much public interest in Irish music, though.
John Lennon was rumoured to have said " The biggest crime the Beatles committed was bringing rock'n'roll to the middle classes"
Who could be said to have committed the same crime with traditional Irish music?
Planxty?
The Chieftains?
The Bothy Band?
a thousand over-earnest computer programmers going to "ITM" sessions?
It was saved by the love and dedication of the many good people over the centuries who had it written out and published. It was popularized by those whom without reward or gain perfected the performance of it.
By Breathneach in our times, by O'Niell in his day and before him by Moore and others collecting and printing - often at their own expense - the beautiful melodies of Ireland. The same work today continues to be done by such as John Moulden ( N Ireland ).
There never was a national restriction on who could or did do the saving! Today you can hear players such as Karen Tweed ( English Piano Accordionist ) or on this site such as Mr Steve Shaw continue the evolution. It is both Irish and not Irish, its forms and tunes coming from outside the culture. So it sits easily into many other cultures.
O'Niell and Mac Mahuna are the collectors of our day and no doubt they will be replaced when some new force emerges.
I am guessing that will be Drama and music, but what would I know about it!
I have heard talk in the past of there being specific people that helped "save Irish music" from dying out (or being stamped out). Whether it be the traveling musicians, the lone pipers who kept the instrument from disappearing into obscurity, the likes of P. Joe Hayes and Paddy Canny who started a ceili band revival, or O'Neill, who tried to catalog and "preserve" it.
But, IMO, it's all of those people, AND all of the people who have ever played it or loved it that make it a living, breathing tradition (thus "saving" it from dying out...)
Irish music is saved from obscurity when anyone in the world plays it, and at least one listener of said music happens to enjoy hearing it.
....my opinion anyhow.
You're probably right, MacCruiskeen, those were just things that I have heard over the years. I am not all that familiar with the history of the ceili band scene. I did make it to a session at Pepper's with PJ just a few months before he passed away, though. Something I'll remember forever!
Jig, are we listening to the same clip? I went to the link posted by paddymolony'swig above and came up with Karen leading a set of the following tunes:
Boys of Malin
Bucks of Oranmore
Jolly Tinker
Over the Moor to Maggie
The clip opens with Green Hills of Tyrol (aka Tripping Down the Stairs) in the background before switching to the session in front of the Bridge Hotel.
What's wrong with you people! Irish music was saved by Shel Silverstein, of course! Without "The Unicorn Song," you'd all be playing "Home On The Range" on a harmonica.
Two independent promotions for programs that celebrate separate men who "saved" Irish music, at different stages in its history.
The first says if Chief O'Neill hadn't organized the notation of so many tunes, then the tradition would have disappeared (i.e., the "harvest saved" idea.)
The second article says Ciaran saved Irish music from certain doom by collecting it and presenting it on RTE. This because it had fallen into such disfavour at the time that it was in danger of disappearing.
I have a hard time believing either of the predictions of total doom for the music, and a harder time believing the work of one man in either case brough about its salvation. But it's interesting to see that that view is held by some out there.
I'm guessing from te responses here that no-one shares the views of the program writes.
by definition, don't we only know about what has survived?
maybe if O'Neill and Breathneach hadn't done their work, something else as vital or better might have taken its place in our hearts?
The music has been passed down throughout the ages by a few people in every area in Ireland. I am fortunate that humble bodhran or not, I have been one of those few in my own area.
Emigration ensured that the music would spread throughout the uncivilised world, as emigrants clung to the old sod, and it is now passed on in those countries.
And we all know that TV nows rules and runs the world, and it played its part. TV popularised The Clancy's, Dubliners, even the Chieftains, and as it expanded, well, when was the last movie (film) without Irish music in it?
Mr McCruiskeen ( what a nice name, so you are a son of a jug?) Sir, I recall many years ago hearing about Flute and FIddle bands in W Kerry and Limerick way back in Victorian times and what is most interesting to me, on the few wax cylinders of these folks playing, I cannot recognize one of the tunes. It was that practice that was grabbed in the early 20th century by Dr Hyde and his Gaelic League as a vehicle upon which to hoist some of the Gaelic revival.
Proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating, or in this case the listening. Today listening to Irish music on TG4 you can nearly not learn a few words of the language with every show you watch.
Bren raises a great point, deserves its own thread!
Paddymolonyswig (and his name's Moloney, by the way!), I don't know why you're referring to my posting as your own has nothing to do with it! And I'd recommend reading 'The Third Policeman'.
Grego, a number of collectors were at work several years before CM began broadcasting on Radio Éireann (Ennis, Hamilton, Ritchie and Pickow and, curse his blasted name, Kennedy). CBÉ had already taken steps to 'save' the music. The BBC was keen to do so too. CCÉ was formed for the same purpose.
But what really did 'save' ITM was the pub session, brought back to Ireland by returning migrant workers from the 1950s onwards and latched upon later by innumerable pub landlords eager to cash in on the financial openings brought about by the 'ballad boom' of the 1960s.
Comhaltas thought it needed saving,and they have played a part in promoting it,and encouraging children to play it.
the Pipers Club have also played an important role.
In many areas of England,Comhaltas teachers are the only people teaching traditional music.The E.F.D.S.S dont bother.
Dick Miles
Well Enigma nobody said which religion it belongs to either.
You have a point there, nonetheless. As far as I know, and that isn't much, there have always been a varied religious membership of Irish music be it in session, kitchen session, house dance and later the pub craze of the now almost worn out Chieftains era.
In fact I recall on my last visit to the wee green Isle playing in one of these gatherings where, including myself, there was members of the expected church as well as Quaker, C of I, and the rest.
It seems even during the bad years in the North the rest of the country managed to keep its head.
BTW one of the finest Irish fiddlers I ever heard was from Co Down and wasn't into religion at all. So in the end I think this sort of thing in the most of the country is rarely if ever thought of, but what I found was that people would comment on a bad or good player; middling players like myself while tolerated are not news there.
Sean O Riada is generally credited with reviving traditional Irish music in the middle of the 20th Century through his radio programmes and Ceoltoiri Chualann (which became the Chieftains). He is seen to have helped to create a situation where trad was taken seriously again after years where it was belittled. His film score for 'Mise Eire' also had a lot to do with this in that it showed the Irish people that we had melodies on a par with any country such as Roisín Dubh.
Before anyone claims this only had an effect on the middle-classes it should be pointed out that Mise Eire was seen by Irish men and women of all classes when it came out and it was a very big deal then.
Sean O Riada is generally credited with reviving traditional Irish music in the middle of the 20th Century through his radio programmes and Ceoltoiri Chualann (which became the Chieftains).
Aggghhhhhhhh. Now I do feel REALLY old. The "middle of the 20th Century". Aggggghhhhhhhhhh
Who saved Irish Music?
Who saved Irish Music?
Was it Chief O'Neill and the American Irish?
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/03/17/Worldandnation/The_man_who_saved_Iri.shtml
Or was it Ciarán Mac Mathúna?
http://www.yorkfilms.com/upcoming/irish/index.html
Discuss...
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by grego
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
The Brits
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Saint
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Seems to me it's pretty much a group effort, with even good old Ed Sullivan helping out. With only a few million Irish left in Ireland, I'm sure they're happy to have all the help they can get from the rest of us, so let's all just keep on saving Irish music!
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Whistleguy
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
It wasn't me....
now don't start Pete. (smirk)
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Mariska Hargitay
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Saved it from what ?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
What a rubbish topic. Might I guess that the poster is 'Mercan?
I might be mistaken but I think I've read a post here (or possibly on C&F) that said "This is where ITM truely lives". That is so funny and so sad on so many levels.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Björn
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
everyone saves irish music who plays irish music. it keeps the tradition alive.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by musical soul
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
I saved Irish Music... I have loads of albums and lots of books.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by session savage
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Emigration.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by jfiddlerh
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Riverdance
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by granama
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Daniel O'Donnell.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Your mum
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
"Your mum."
Whose mum?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by granama
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
me
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by mcknowall
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Westlife ?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by bogman
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Davy Spillane?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by jig
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Chieftans popularised it worldwide for decades - without a doubt.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
The Irish.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Patkiwi
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Shirley Temple
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Pat Kiwi its not just the Irish that save it.
Thing of all the musicians that play and spread the tradtion in other countries around the world..
Your suffering from a slight dose of tunnelvision
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by musical soul
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
I thought it was somewhat humourous meself. I'd better go off and get my head examined.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Patkiwi
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
'Your suffering from a slight dose of tunnelvision'
It could be successfully argued that Irish music is part of a wider culture and social interaction that encompasses a lot more than sitting in pubs playing tunes learned off the Internet.
Taking one element, music, away from the culture it is not only rooted in but an integral part of is hardly 'spreading the tradition'.
It's somehow ironic this site likes to call the wider vision 'backward thinking' (on another thread recently) or 'tunnel vision'.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by kilfarboy
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Well, I don't know about "saved," but it was The Chieftains that first brought Irish music to my attention.
Irish music actually led us to a honeymoon in Ireland back in 1982. While there, we loaded up on recordings that we couldn't get then in the U.S. It was a few more years before we were seeing very much public interest in Irish music, though.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by cathrynb
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
John Lennon was rumoured to have said " The biggest crime the Beatles committed was bringing rock'n'roll to the middle classes"
Who could be said to have committed the same crime with traditional Irish music?
Planxty?
The Chieftains?
The Bothy Band?
a thousand over-earnest computer programmers going to "ITM" sessions?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Bren
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
It was saved by the love and dedication of the many good people over the centuries who had it written out and published. It was popularized by those whom without reward or gain perfected the performance of it.
By Breathneach in our times, by O'Niell in his day and before him by Moore and others collecting and printing - often at their own expense - the beautiful melodies of Ireland. The same work today continues to be done by such as John Moulden ( N Ireland ).
There never was a national restriction on who could or did do the saving! Today you can hear players such as Karen Tweed ( English Piano Accordionist ) or on this site such as Mr Steve Shaw continue the evolution. It is both Irish and not Irish, its forms and tunes coming from outside the culture. So it sits easily into many other cultures.
O'Niell and Mac Mahuna are the collectors of our day and no doubt they will be replaced when some new force emerges.
I am guessing that will be Drama and music, but what would I know about it!
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
bodhran bliss
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by feardearg
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Forgot to post a link to Karen T playing her Piano Accordion. Thanks to CCE for providing the video clip
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_229_1_karen_tweed_session/
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
I have heard talk in the past of there being specific people that helped "save Irish music" from dying out (or being stamped out). Whether it be the traveling musicians, the lone pipers who kept the instrument from disappearing into obscurity, the likes of P. Joe Hayes and Paddy Canny who started a ceili band revival, or O'Neill, who tried to catalog and "preserve" it.
But, IMO, it's all of those people, AND all of the people who have ever played it or loved it that make it a living, breathing tradition (thus "saving" it from dying out...)
Pete
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Hey, The Bothy Band saved it.
Incidentally, you can hear Tommy Peoples in concert on Saturday 10th November in Edinburgh.
http://www.thesession.org/events/display/593
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Michael Coleman.
Ah, well, I really don't know, but he's my hero.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Screetch
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
whats the tune after the high rd to Linton on the karen tweed clip? anyone?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by jig
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Was there a virus or something?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by lamh trom
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
From what??
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by seaniemcg
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Irish music is saved from obscurity when anyone in the world plays it, and at least one listener of said music happens to enjoy hearing it.
....my opinion anyhow.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by morning star
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
I saved it to my hard drive
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by breandan
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Reverend wrote:
'the likes of P. Joe Hayes and Paddy Canny who started a ceili band revival'.
Hmm, I think not - they were simply part of the original Tulla CB, formed in the 1940s, by which time céilí bands hardly needed reviving.
The true revival took place over a decade later when various labels began to release céilí band LPs.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
You're probably right, MacCruiskeen, those were just things that I have heard over the years. I am not all that familiar with the history of the ceili band scene. I did make it to a session at Pepper's with PJ just a few months before he passed away, though. Something I'll remember forever!
Pete
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Jig, are we listening to the same clip? I went to the link posted by paddymolony'swig above and came up with Karen leading a set of the following tunes:
Boys of Malin
Bucks of Oranmore
Jolly Tinker
Over the Moor to Maggie
The clip opens with Green Hills of Tyrol (aka Tripping Down the Stairs) in the background before switching to the session in front of the Bridge Hotel.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
What's wrong with you people! Irish music was saved by Shel Silverstein, of course! Without "The Unicorn Song," you'd all be playing "Home On The Range" on a harmonica.
Sheesh, what a silly question!
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Ailin
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Jeebus saves!
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by patrick cavanagh
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Okay, here's what I was after:
Two independent promotions for programs that celebrate separate men who "saved" Irish music, at different stages in its history.
The first says if Chief O'Neill hadn't organized the notation of so many tunes, then the tradition would have disappeared (i.e., the "harvest saved" idea.)
The second article says Ciaran saved Irish music from certain doom by collecting it and presenting it on RTE. This because it had fallen into such disfavour at the time that it was in danger of disappearing.
I have a hard time believing either of the predictions of total doom for the music, and a harder time believing the work of one man in either case brough about its salvation. But it's interesting to see that that view is held by some out there.
I'm guessing from te responses here that no-one shares the views of the program writes.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by grego
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
so what has disappeared?
what *wasn't* saved?
by definition, don't we only know about what has survived?
maybe if O'Neill and Breathneach hadn't done their work, something else as vital or better might have taken its place in our hearts?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Bren
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
You have to ask?
Feardearg got it right.
The music has been passed down throughout the ages by a few people in every area in Ireland. I am fortunate that humble bodhran or not, I have been one of those few in my own area.
Emigration ensured that the music would spread throughout the uncivilised world, as emigrants clung to the old sod, and it is now passed on in those countries.
And we all know that TV nows rules and runs the world, and it played its part. TV popularised The Clancy's, Dubliners, even the Chieftains, and as it expanded, well, when was the last movie (film) without Irish music in it?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Mr McCruiskeen ( what a nice name, so you are a son of a jug?) Sir, I recall many years ago hearing about Flute and FIddle bands in W Kerry and Limerick way back in Victorian times and what is most interesting to me, on the few wax cylinders of these folks playing, I cannot recognize one of the tunes. It was that practice that was grabbed in the early 20th century by Dr Hyde and his Gaelic League as a vehicle upon which to hoist some of the Gaelic revival.
Proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating, or in this case the listening. Today listening to Irish music on TG4 you can nearly not learn a few words of the language with every show you watch.
Bren raises a great point, deserves its own thread!
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Paddymolonyswig (and his name's Moloney, by the way!), I don't know why you're referring to my posting as your own has nothing to do with it! And I'd recommend reading 'The Third Policeman'.
Grego, a number of collectors were at work several years before CM began broadcasting on Radio Éireann (Ennis, Hamilton, Ritchie and Pickow and, curse his blasted name, Kennedy). CBÉ had already taken steps to 'save' the music. The BBC was keen to do so too. CCÉ was formed for the same purpose.
But what really did 'save' ITM was the pub session, brought back to Ireland by returning migrant workers from the 1950s onwards and latched upon later by innumerable pub landlords eager to cash in on the financial openings brought about by the 'ballad boom' of the 1960s.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
No 'one' saved it. It didn't need to be saved.
If one considers the oppression/suppression of Irish music over the years, it has survived on its own substance.
Music that lacks substance goes away with few people caring.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Thanks, tat, the bucks. Very helpfull. Appreciated. Nice playing huh?
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by jig
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Comhaltas thought it needed saving,and they have played a part in promoting it,and encouraging children to play it.
the Pipers Club have also played an important role.
In many areas of England,Comhaltas teachers are the only people teaching traditional music.The E.F.D.S.S dont bother.
Dick Miles
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by dickens metrognome
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Jig, I'm not a big fan of piano accordion, but Ms. Tweed is one of trhe most tasteful players around. And they all give it great lift in that clip.
# Posted on October 27th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Northern Prods not to mention good old Wolf Tone, as much as it hurts me to admit being a Nothern Catholic.
Slán
# Posted on October 27th 2007 by Enigma
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Well Enigma nobody said which religion it belongs to either.
You have a point there, nonetheless. As far as I know, and that isn't much, there have always been a varied religious membership of Irish music be it in session, kitchen session, house dance and later the pub craze of the now almost worn out Chieftains era.
In fact I recall on my last visit to the wee green Isle playing in one of these gatherings where, including myself, there was members of the expected church as well as Quaker, C of I, and the rest.
It seems even during the bad years in the North the rest of the country managed to keep its head.
BTW one of the finest Irish fiddlers I ever heard was from Co Down and wasn't into religion at all. So in the end I think this sort of thing in the most of the country is rarely if ever thought of, but what I found was that people would comment on a bad or good player; middling players like myself while tolerated are not news there.
# Posted on October 27th 2007 by Schlongbow
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Sean O Riada is generally credited with reviving traditional Irish music in the middle of the 20th Century through his radio programmes and Ceoltoiri Chualann (which became the Chieftains). He is seen to have helped to create a situation where trad was taken seriously again after years where it was belittled. His film score for 'Mise Eire' also had a lot to do with this in that it showed the Irish people that we had melodies on a par with any country such as Roisín Dubh.
Before anyone claims this only had an effect on the middle-classes it should be pointed out that Mise Eire was seen by Irish men and women of all classes when it came out and it was a very big deal then.
# Posted on October 27th 2007 by Bored with thesession.org
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Sean O Riada is generally credited with reviving traditional Irish music in the middle of the 20th Century through his radio programmes and Ceoltoiri Chualann (which became the Chieftains).
Aggghhhhhhhh. Now I do feel REALLY old. The "middle of the 20th Century". Aggggghhhhhhhhhh
# Posted on October 27th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
Titanic movies.
# Posted on October 28th 2007 by dogmageek
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
ha ha titanci movies !! that is so funny
# Posted on October 28th 2007 by vboyd100
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
I was impressed by the early chieftains stuff on the Hibernian program, Two bodhrans, , a powerful sound.
# Posted on October 28th 2007 by jig
Re: Who saved Irish Music?
the canadians
# Posted on November 7th 2007 by pitcairn