So I just bought a new mandolin, a Tacoma M1. I got it because it was in my price range, and I've heard good things about it. Now the more I'm thinking, I want a mandolin that I can plug in. Looking around I can't find any acoustic/electrics that are good quality and in my range. So I'm thinking of getting a pickup for this one. What are your suggestions as to brands and models? I've gone through some of the old threads on this topic, but I always like fresh info. Also, I saw a mention of a preamp foot pedal. Any comments on this?
well a good pre amp is absolutely essential. i use a fishmans, but not cheap.
The other thing i use is a samson radio bug. dont know how i did without it. it will give a strong signal from your pickup, but not improve your tone.
A simple piezo under bridge will do. But be warned, feedback possibilities are endless!.
Ive also seen the speaker from one of those annoying singing birthday cards being used to good effect, wired up and slipped under the bridge!
Personally i have a small solid body electric mando , sturdy and cheap. with a magnetic pickup from an elec GTR.
i just got a new pick up from "Pick up the World Pickups", put on an F-style under the bridge for arch top mandolins and it sounds great, running it through a pre amp similar to the Fishman pre amp.
PUTW is a very well-regarded company, though I don't have any personal experience with their gear. I would suggest K&K, which I've played on three different guitars. They're a soundboard transducer, not an undersaddle piezo. Briefly, the latter is the more standard pickup, it sits somewhere between the strings and the face of the instrument. Used to be the best thing running, and some of them are very good. Tonal problems include "quacking" and a loss of the tonal quality of the instrument, as you're really picking up the vibration of the strings and only marginally the vibration of the face.
Soundboard transducers are mounted on the face of the instrument, and get more of the characteristic sound of the instrument - if installed well they can really sound "like my guitar,. but louder", which is my preference. Older ones aren't so good, don't have much output, generally are problematic. Newer ones, like the K&K and, I believe, the PUTW systems are much more sensitive and put out a lot more signal, allowing for less pre-amping and EQ, thus giving a cleaner signal.
What circumstances will you be amplifying under? Bar gigs? Concert halls? A little volume support at a session?
As soon as you enter the world of amplification you start to realize how much money it can cost to sound good!
Quality gear really makes the difference.
Just say 'no' to amps!
Actually, jig, the K&K I put in my guitar cost under $200, and while it doesn't really need it, I run it through a $150 Baggs pre-amp/DI that I've had for about ten years. Add in a few patch cords and you're still looking at pretty reasonable. I'm assuming you're playing in a room with PA provided, of course - if not, then it's true, the PA can run a fair bit more if you're not careful.
Ok jon, but good leads cost a bit, the PA, the van to cart it all about, A good Reverb to my mind is essential, But as you say it can last for years, I dunno, ive got several thousand $ worth of gear here, A far cry from my first guitar which cost me 5£.
i play keyboard in a band too, so the PA and all that is taken care of. I just need the pickup and the preamp. Im thinking of going for the fishman. any advice on reducing feedback? also, any suggestions for a preamp in the $100-$200 range? thanks
A friend of mine has the K&K (about £70) and it sounds really nice and has a reasonably high output. You'd get away without a pre-amp, a decent DI box (something like a Behringer DI100 - about £30) will do the trick and sound good if you keep the pick-up to DI cable under 3m. Combined with something like the ubiquitous AKG C1000 cardiod MIC (£100) you've got good, hassle free live sound. Total cost, probably about £200.
Re pre-amp, different pickups have different out puts. my point really related to the combination pre/graphic. like my fishmans. to my mind the graphic is the essential aspect.. the samson radio transmitter does the job of the preamp. if your signal is hot enough then just the graphic will be fine.
Andys point re a mic is important, a combination approach like that is the way to go..
You really need to have hands on control of your own sound to a certain extent. however good your soundman, if he is not familiar with your personal sound requirements then......
I am not happy if my sound is not right. i cant relax till it is.
Mind you what about your monitor? in ear? now that can cost! And how are your ears? been to many heavy metal gigs?If you cant hear the top end so well!.....
An guitar-style effects machine does as good a job as most plug-in preamps. You also have the added bonus of getting that wah-wah effect on the star of munster that you always wanted. Only joking. Though I'm not really. But I am.
Dont reckon so myself, i have had a number of different floor pedals and they havent a hope in comparison with my fishmans. different league alltogether.. |And to be honest all those endles choices just get in the way. I want a beautiful tone, a quality reverb, control over frequency levels, and thats it.Unless its specifically for amping an accoustic mandolin then perhaps you are right.
My point remains. you get what you pay for in this field. you want quality, yo gotta pay for it, no shortcuts.... believe me ive tried!
Aye, it was an acoustic setup I was referring to. In your heart of hearts though jig, can you say in all honesty that you haven't whiled away a few innocent hours paying jigs and reels through flange/phaser/distortion etc? Terrible stuff it may be, this sort of shenanigans has a transient novelty quality to it.
Actually I'd disagree that a graphic equaliser is a must - I'm not really a big fan of them. The trouble with graphics is that they only allow you to affect the overall "shape" of the tone. Really, what you're better off with is using the desk to cut the specific frequencies you don't want (there's normally a couple that are overly inclined to resonate within a space) and cut any unpleasant frequencies. Then if you want a bit more/less top/bottom then that can be done from the desk as well, but put the time in and get the best pick-up/mic placement before hand.
I prefer a totally hands-off approach to my sound once I'm plugged in - I know pretty much what comes out of my gear (and that it doesn't need much doing to it), but accept that the monitored sound is very different to the room sound and that the sound tech knows best. Even if he clearly doesn't......the gear I'd need to do anything about it would be cost prohibitive.
jeez, try gigging with that yoke round yer neck for a couple hours!,
Well andy, each to there own. I know what see's me right. some instruments are trickier than others.
As long as i like what i hear, im happy. having control of my own sound is, for me essential. I dont trust no jumped up sound man unless he knows my sound well....... Waddya mean paranoia, you talking to me ? just because your paranoid doesnt mean there's enough bass! huh? huh? who said that? what?
As far as pre-amp goes, I've never found any reason to dislike the Baggs box - the "Para-acoustic DI", they call it. It's a preamp/DI, fits in a guitar case, takes phantom power or a 9-volt, five bands of EQ, two of them sweepable, and it's a really clean piece of gear, especially since they moved the gain control to outside of the box (used to be internal, which meant you needed a screwdriver to adjust it - not that it really needs a lot of adjusting).
I'm sure there are other things out there, but I've been using that one for, oh, ten or fifteen years, and I see no reason to get anything else.
Last I checked, they were going for about US$150, I don't know what they're costing overseas.
If you're playing bar gigs, I'd say your best bet would be an undersaddle or soundboard transducer - AST willl be a bit better sound, but undersaddle might get you higher output and better feedback resistance, so it'll depend on ambient noise and onstage volume. If you're playing with a drum kit, get the undersaddle, otherwise the K&K or the PUTW should be the best thing, but please, please, please try to check them out for yourself before you buy them on my recommendation, if at all possible.
I'd be curious to know what you end up with and how you like it- keep us posted!
The Tacoma is a great mandolin for Irish music! I tried one and was close to buy it but didn't because I also wanted to play bluegrass with it and this Tacoma didn't give a good chop sound.
However, i wouldn't plug in the mandolin and not even a guitar. You get a much nicer sound if you use a microphone, like one you attach to the bridge or so. There is a good one from JJlabs but I'm not sure how much it is available in other countries.
By far the best mandolin pick-up I've heard is a Schertler but they are very expensive, even more so for Americans with the US dollar being so low.
I get a nice sound from a McIntyre Acoustic Feather which is much cheaper, and use a Boss EQ box to cut out nasty frequencies.
I've heard good things about the Baggs DI but haven't got my hands on one.
Effects boxes add too much hiss and are a soundperson's nightmare.
Unfortunately most house soundpersons these days are just baffled by acoustic instruments, especially if they aren't guitars, especially if mixed with electric instruments, but few will admit they don't really know what they're doing and take the time to get mandolins and banjos sounding right, so it's best to have some control.
Zouk, im all over the place when i play. i cant for the life of me stand still in front of a mic. one of the reasons i have a radio bug transmiter.
the combination approach i would recommend would be a mic that sits, fixed to the body of the guitar or mando/fiddle.
Actually as we are on the subject of recommending gear, can anyone recomend a small, portable reverb unit< i dont mind paying over the odds for quality.
I have a number of multi effect pedels, a rack unit, my desk has one, but i just want a small quality unit i can slip in my fiddle case and travel with. Im on the road so often i m constantly carrying around too much gear.
Bren. Ditto. The Schertler is the best stick on soundboard mic pickup on the market at this point in time IMO. They are expensive, yes, but that price also includes external pre amp
/ EQ. Feedback is not an issue.
They also make the best acoustic amplifiers around, and I know a couple of very fussy players who've traded in their "You Know What's" for them for a fraction of the cost.
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to be in charge of their own sound ..
There are sound guys around who might know a lot about the technology, but wouldn't know a good meaty acoustic sound in a fit. I think have a good pick up and /or mike, pre- amp ,eq, get a good sound out of a stage amplifier, and stick a mike in front of it. That way if the earless soundguy wants to wreck the sound, at least you'll have a pleasing stage sound that you can control, and the possibility that he may just leave the desk flat so the audience can get something near to what you're getting.
Regarding microphones versus pickups, in a stage setting I agree, mics sound better. In a bar setting, mics don't always sound better due to the higher ambient noise level making a challenging situation for the mediocre or absent sound man. Also, a bar stage is usually a pretty tight fit, making bleeding a real problem - you can't turn down the banjo, because he's coming through the fiddle mic, and so forth. With all that, the advantage in absolute sound quailty to me seems like a wash.
Now for a stage gig, usually you'll have a sound man who's got microphones and you won't even get to use your own mics, so while it's nice to have a good instrument mic, I've found it's the thing I've used the least, and then mostly for recording.
Your mileage may vary, though - I know a band in town here who does the three-guys-one-mic technique for a gypsy jazz sound, and you can usually hear what they're doing. I can see that working for a small trad group as well, although I've never tried it, and I'd want a very quiet crowd if I did. (which is not good for business - usually I want a loud crowd, because they're the ones buying the drinks, and that's what I'm there for in the end, isn't it?)
The Audio Technica Pro-Series condenser mics are very good: go for the ones that plug directly into the house box/desk and run off phantom power, not the ones that go through the "power supply" - condenser mics don't need a pre-desk pre-amp (unless you've got your own quality pre-amp). I've seen a guitarist I know use something called a "K-Clamp" to attach a Røde NT-5 to his guitar which gave a brilliant sound (ie his guitar but louder) when combined with an onboard Baggs Dual Source - it's a solution worth about £400 though.
Part of the trouble of doing your own sound is a phenomenon called Fletcher-Munson curves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-Munson_curves
which mean that your carefully equalised signal sounds odd at house volume (and also is why you should panic if the sound guy sound checks at half....) It's the age old thing, but if your output needs nothing doing to it other than a cut for the room's resonance then letting the sound guy do the levels isn't a big deal. If you've got a soundboard transducer and you don't like how it sounds, as opposed to faffing about with an EQ, time moving the transducers around is always time well spent. Or buying new kit....
Microphones are simply a case of you get what you pay for: the more you spend the better the rear-rejection will be, the less frequency will affect pick-up pattern, the distortion is less. Neuman capsules are so expensive cos for each one that makes it to the shelves about five have been chucked out. Most sound guys carry a half dozen C1000s or so, but if you've got something better most won't object to using it - particularly if it's something with a really tight pick-up pattern (hyper-cardiods are good if there's nothing coming from directly behind the mic, or you can modify the mount to block out sound from behind the mic). I've also seen shotgun mics used to really good effect if you need an ambient sound, although they need to be positioned incredibly carefully as they're very prone to phase interference.
Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Whats the deal with mando pickups?
So I just bought a new mandolin, a Tacoma M1. I got it because it was in my price range, and I've heard good things about it. Now the more I'm thinking, I want a mandolin that I can plug in. Looking around I can't find any acoustic/electrics that are good quality and in my range. So I'm thinking of getting a pickup for this one. What are your suggestions as to brands and models? I've gone through some of the old threads on this topic, but I always like fresh info. Also, I saw a mention of a preamp foot pedal. Any comments on this?
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
well a good pre amp is absolutely essential. i use a fishmans, but not cheap.
The other thing i use is a samson radio bug. dont know how i did without it. it will give a strong signal from your pickup, but not improve your tone.
A simple piezo under bridge will do. But be warned, feedback possibilities are endless!.
Ive also seen the speaker from one of those annoying singing birthday cards being used to good effect, wired up and slipped under the bridge!
Personally i have a small solid body electric mando , sturdy and cheap. with a magnetic pickup from an elec GTR.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
They cost as much as electric mandolins.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
as much as the $100 electric mandolins or the $900 mando's?
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
I put a fishman on my mando. I think I paid $120. The sound is very good and it has lasted years.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by t4kne
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
i just got a new pick up from "Pick up the World Pickups", put on an F-style under the bridge for arch top mandolins and it sounds great, running it through a pre amp similar to the Fishman pre amp.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Dont
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
PUTW is a very well-regarded company, though I don't have any personal experience with their gear. I would suggest K&K, which I've played on three different guitars. They're a soundboard transducer, not an undersaddle piezo. Briefly, the latter is the more standard pickup, it sits somewhere between the strings and the face of the instrument. Used to be the best thing running, and some of them are very good. Tonal problems include "quacking" and a loss of the tonal quality of the instrument, as you're really picking up the vibration of the strings and only marginally the vibration of the face.
Soundboard transducers are mounted on the face of the instrument, and get more of the characteristic sound of the instrument - if installed well they can really sound "like my guitar,. but louder", which is my preference. Older ones aren't so good, don't have much output, generally are problematic. Newer ones, like the K&K and, I believe, the PUTW systems are much more sensitive and put out a lot more signal, allowing for less pre-amping and EQ, thus giving a cleaner signal.
What circumstances will you be amplifying under? Bar gigs? Concert halls? A little volume support at a session?
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
As soon as you enter the world of amplification you start to realize how much money it can cost to sound good!
Quality gear really makes the difference.
Just say 'no' to amps!
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Actually, jig, the K&K I put in my guitar cost under $200, and while it doesn't really need it, I run it through a $150 Baggs pre-amp/DI that I've had for about ten years. Add in a few patch cords and you're still looking at pretty reasonable. I'm assuming you're playing in a room with PA provided, of course - if not, then it's true, the PA can run a fair bit more if you're not careful.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
i'll be playing mostly bar gigs.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Ok jon, but good leads cost a bit, the PA, the van to cart it all about, A good Reverb to my mind is essential, But as you say it can last for years, I dunno, ive got several thousand $ worth of gear here, A far cry from my first guitar which cost me 5£.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
i play keyboard in a band too, so the PA and all that is taken care of. I just need the pickup and the preamp. Im thinking of going for the fishman. any advice on reducing feedback? also, any suggestions for a preamp in the $100-$200 range? thanks
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
re feedback, block up the sound hole.? the PA should, these days have a feedback locator..
the graphic eq, in conjunction with pre.amp= fishmans.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
A friend of mine has the K&K (about £70) and it sounds really nice and has a reasonably high output. You'd get away without a pre-amp, a decent DI box (something like a Behringer DI100 - about £30) will do the trick and sound good if you keep the pick-up to DI cable under 3m. Combined with something like the ubiquitous AKG C1000 cardiod MIC (£100) you've got good, hassle free live sound. Total cost, probably about £200.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Fishman is a good make. I have one myself though I haven't used it for a while. Best used in conjunction with a graphic equaliser.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Ernie
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Re pre-amp, different pickups have different out puts. my point really related to the combination pre/graphic. like my fishmans. to my mind the graphic is the essential aspect.. the samson radio transmitter does the job of the preamp. if your signal is hot enough then just the graphic will be fine.
Andys point re a mic is important, a combination approach like that is the way to go..
You really need to have hands on control of your own sound to a certain extent. however good your soundman, if he is not familiar with your personal sound requirements then......
I am not happy if my sound is not right. i cant relax till it is.
Mind you what about your monitor? in ear? now that can cost! And how are your ears? been to many heavy metal gigs?
If you cant hear the top end so well!.....
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
An guitar-style effects machine does as good a job as most plug-in preamps. You also have the added bonus of getting that wah-wah effect on the star of munster that you always wanted. Only joking. Though I'm not really. But I am.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Dont reckon so myself, i have had a number of different floor pedals and they havent a hope in comparison with my fishmans. different league alltogether.. |And to be honest all those endles choices just get in the way. I want a beautiful tone, a quality reverb, control over frequency levels, and thats it.Unless its specifically for amping an accoustic mandolin then perhaps you are right.
My point remains. you get what you pay for in this field. you want quality, yo gotta pay for it, no shortcuts.... believe me ive tried!
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Aye, it was an acoustic setup I was referring to. In your heart of hearts though jig, can you say in all honesty that you haven't whiled away a few innocent hours paying jigs and reels through flange/phaser/distortion etc? Terrible stuff it may be, this sort of shenanigans has a transient novelty quality to it.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Actually I'd disagree that a graphic equaliser is a must - I'm not really a big fan of them. The trouble with graphics is that they only allow you to affect the overall "shape" of the tone. Really, what you're better off with is using the desk to cut the specific frequencies you don't want (there's normally a couple that are overly inclined to resonate within a space) and cut any unpleasant frequencies. Then if you want a bit more/less top/bottom then that can be done from the desk as well, but put the time in and get the best pick-up/mic placement before hand.
I prefer a totally hands-off approach to my sound once I'm plugged in - I know pretty much what comes out of my gear (and that it doesn't need much doing to it), but accept that the monitored sound is very different to the room sound and that the sound tech knows best. Even if he clearly doesn't......the gear I'd need to do anything about it would be cost prohibitive.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Andy V
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
I suppose if one is into all that craic, this is the instrument:
http://www.maartinallcock.com/twinneck.htm
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Aha, I see that musician-sound tech-paranoia syndrome is rearing it head again!
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Sinocal
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
jeez, try gigging with that yoke round yer neck for a couple hours!,
Well andy, each to there own. I know what see's me right. some instruments are trickier than others.
As long as i like what i hear, im happy. having control of my own sound is, for me essential. I dont trust no jumped up sound man unless he knows my sound well....... Waddya mean paranoia, you talking to me ? just because your paranoid doesnt mean there's enough bass! huh? huh? who said that? what?
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
sinocal, hours? half my f*k*n life! But ive trimmed it down to reverb. and a graphic.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
I have a superb electric mandolin. A bit pricey at 200 euros, £140, but worth it.
And I talked them down to £120, with a hard case thrown in.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
As far as pre-amp goes, I've never found any reason to dislike the Baggs box - the "Para-acoustic DI", they call it. It's a preamp/DI, fits in a guitar case, takes phantom power or a 9-volt, five bands of EQ, two of them sweepable, and it's a really clean piece of gear, especially since they moved the gain control to outside of the box (used to be internal, which meant you needed a screwdriver to adjust it - not that it really needs a lot of adjusting).
I'm sure there are other things out there, but I've been using that one for, oh, ten or fifteen years, and I see no reason to get anything else.
Last I checked, they were going for about US$150, I don't know what they're costing overseas.
If you're playing bar gigs, I'd say your best bet would be an undersaddle or soundboard transducer - AST willl be a bit better sound, but undersaddle might get you higher output and better feedback resistance, so it'll depend on ambient noise and onstage volume. If you're playing with a drum kit, get the undersaddle, otherwise the K&K or the PUTW should be the best thing, but please, please, please try to check them out for yourself before you buy them on my recommendation, if at all possible.
I'd be curious to know what you end up with and how you like it- keep us posted!
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
The Tacoma is a great mandolin for Irish music! I tried one and was close to buy it but didn't because I also wanted to play bluegrass with it and this Tacoma didn't give a good chop sound.
However, i wouldn't plug in the mandolin and not even a guitar. You get a much nicer sound if you use a microphone, like one you attach to the bridge or so. There is a good one from JJlabs but I'm not sure how much it is available in other countries.
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by zoukgirl
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
By far the best mandolin pick-up I've heard is a Schertler but they are very expensive, even more so for Americans with the US dollar being so low.
I get a nice sound from a McIntyre Acoustic Feather which is much cheaper, and use a Boss EQ box to cut out nasty frequencies.
I've heard good things about the Baggs DI but haven't got my hands on one.
Effects boxes add too much hiss and are a soundperson's nightmare.
Unfortunately most house soundpersons these days are just baffled by acoustic instruments, especially if they aren't guitars, especially if mixed with electric instruments, but few will admit they don't really know what they're doing and take the time to get mandolins and banjos sounding right, so it's best to have some control.
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by Bren
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Zouk, im all over the place when i play. i cant for the life of me stand still in front of a mic. one of the reasons i have a radio bug transmiter.
the combination approach i would recommend would be a mic that sits, fixed to the body of the guitar or mando/fiddle.
Actually as we are on the subject of recommending gear, can anyone recomend a small, portable reverb unit< i dont mind paying over the odds for quality.
I have a number of multi effect pedels, a rack unit, my desk has one, but i just want a small quality unit i can slip in my fiddle case and travel with. Im on the road so often i m constantly carrying around too much gear.
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by jig
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Bren. Ditto. The Schertler is the best stick on soundboard mic pickup on the market at this point in time IMO. They are expensive, yes, but that price also includes external pre amp
/ EQ. Feedback is not an issue.
They also make the best acoustic amplifiers around, and I know a couple of very fussy players who've traded in their "You Know What's" for them for a fraction of the cost.
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to be in charge of their own sound ..
There are sound guys around who might know a lot about the technology, but wouldn't know a good meaty acoustic sound in a fit. I think have a good pick up and /or mike, pre- amp ,eq, get a good sound out of a stage amplifier, and stick a mike in front of it. That way if the earless soundguy wants to wreck the sound, at least you'll have a pleasing stage sound that you can control, and the possibility that he may just leave the desk flat so the audience can get something near to what you're getting.
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
Regarding microphones versus pickups, in a stage setting I agree, mics sound better. In a bar setting, mics don't always sound better due to the higher ambient noise level making a challenging situation for the mediocre or absent sound man. Also, a bar stage is usually a pretty tight fit, making bleeding a real problem - you can't turn down the banjo, because he's coming through the fiddle mic, and so forth. With all that, the advantage in absolute sound quailty to me seems like a wash.
Now for a stage gig, usually you'll have a sound man who's got microphones and you won't even get to use your own mics, so while it's nice to have a good instrument mic, I've found it's the thing I've used the least, and then mostly for recording.
Your mileage may vary, though - I know a band in town here who does the three-guys-one-mic technique for a gypsy jazz sound, and you can usually hear what they're doing. I can see that working for a small trad group as well, although I've never tried it, and I'd want a very quiet crowd if I did. (which is not good for business - usually I want a loud crowd, because they're the ones buying the drinks, and that's what I'm there for in the end, isn't it?)
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Whats the deal with mando pickups?
The Audio Technica Pro-Series condenser mics are very good: go for the ones that plug directly into the house box/desk and run off phantom power, not the ones that go through the "power supply" - condenser mics don't need a pre-desk pre-amp (unless you've got your own quality pre-amp). I've seen a guitarist I know use something called a "K-Clamp" to attach a Røde NT-5 to his guitar which gave a brilliant sound (ie his guitar but louder) when combined with an onboard Baggs Dual Source - it's a solution worth about £400 though.
Part of the trouble of doing your own sound is a phenomenon called Fletcher-Munson curves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-Munson_curves
which mean that your carefully equalised signal sounds odd at house volume (and also is why you should panic if the sound guy sound checks at half....) It's the age old thing, but if your output needs nothing doing to it other than a cut for the room's resonance then letting the sound guy do the levels isn't a big deal. If you've got a soundboard transducer and you don't like how it sounds, as opposed to faffing about with an EQ, time moving the transducers around is always time well spent. Or buying new kit....
Microphones are simply a case of you get what you pay for: the more you spend the better the rear-rejection will be, the less frequency will affect pick-up pattern, the distortion is less. Neuman capsules are so expensive cos for each one that makes it to the shelves about five have been chucked out. Most sound guys carry a half dozen C1000s or so, but if you've got something better most won't object to using it - particularly if it's something with a really tight pick-up pattern (hyper-cardiods are good if there's nothing coming from directly behind the mic, or you can modify the mount to block out sound from behind the mic). I've also seen shotgun mics used to really good effect if you need an ambient sound, although they need to be positioned incredibly carefully as they're very prone to phase interference.
# Posted on October 26th 2007 by Andy V