I received word that the musicians, singers and dancers presently on the CCÉ North American tour are not receiving the best of treatment. Renowned musicians, married men of a certain age are having to share beds with 17 year old lads, dancers are made sleep on couches in strangers homes, terrible food, couple of dollars payment. Im sure the comhaltas executives are not roughing it. What happens to the money generated from the 9 concerts? While we are at it, why does CCÉ headquarters refuse to fund county, provincial and All Ireland Fleadhs? They expect host towns to reaise £1000's to entertain the Comhaltes executives and their partners. Has anyone had a bad (or good) comhaltas experience?
I know married blokes "of a certain age" who would welcome sharing a bed with a seventeen year old lad!
And dancers sleeping on couches in strangers' houses?
A few "dancers" I have known specialize in this!
Polari Mr. Horne!!
And niether do I believe in the stereotype that all male dancers are gay and female dancers bendy girlfriends of musicians.
I am confused, I usually do not see trad music and money discussed in the same paragraph--who on earth would think that trad music would generate cash in any meaningful quantities?
Any cash generated at the CCÉ concerts should be spent on the artists involved - decent hotel rooms at least. No-one knows where it all goes. Its the next tribunal Labhrás
Most musicians I know are really happy to be put up somewhere and save the money a hotel would cost, maybe they get paid a bit more this way on the CCE tour, no matter what the organization gets. Maybe it's a win-win for all really.
the musicians or performers of any kind are generally very good company and great houseguests, and enjoy their host's hospitality. With most of our performers who play at IAANJ, they look forward to a stay at "The Iris Motel" as it is now called. More personal attention than a hotel, never mind a few dust bunnies. Others who put up performers go out of their way to make their homes comfy for them. Usually they are treated royally, better than a hotel ever would, and the price is right of course. Here they wake to homemade muffins and jelly from the pear tree or grapevines in the yard, and homemade soap. Well fed and sent on their way happy and rested.
It's a great way also for touring musicians, dancers, especially the kids, but adults too, to make new friends on tour. Most are invited back for a reciprocal visit in Ireland. It's a pretty OK system I think. And as Al says, who would think they'd generate cash in any meaningful quantities. Let them keep it rather than spend it all on hotels. It might make touring very unworthwhile for a lot of people if they had nowhere to stay.
Have to agree with Al on this one as concerts with an admission charge of 10 Euro a head to see 16 or so musicians and dancers perform are hardly likely to raise bucket loads of money. I can't vouch for some of those "unusual" sleeping arrangements over there in the States but I can assure you that here in Ennis the old morals still apply, and after tonight's show in Cois na hAbhna all artistes will be safely tucked up in their leabas in the Auburn Lodge Hotel!
A cross post here and I hope Iris Nevins doesn't take offence! I was being tongue in cheek and didn't seriously intend to suggest moral superiority with our hotel situation here in Ennis over the "host family" approach in operation down through the years for American tours. Iris has very effectively listed the many advantages of this method although there will always be some artistes who would opt for a late night bar. I may be wrong but I think most tours will include some of both kinds of accommodation so that at the end of the day everyone will be catered for.
CCÉ are stuck in 1950's rural Catholic Ireland. Do great stuff for kids and learners who when they grow up realise CCÉ are a pack of backward thinking purest who think the winner of a fiddle competition in late August is the undisputed best fiddle player existing in Ireland. What a load of old Sh*te. CCÉ are the musical wing of Opus Dei, are not transparent when it comes to funds and are not democratic.
The artists I speak about have no problem with staying with host families, its just that on this occassion it went wrong. They got $200 for 9 gigs (all sold out at over $25 a ticket) and by the sounds of it they were not looked after very well (unlike previous years I'm sure). Its a long way from home and 1st time abroad for some so all I'm saying is I think their welfare and comfort should be a priority.
Bannerman.... I rarely take offense at much at all, don't worry. I know you were kidding. I was reflecting on some of the very nice visits from musicians I have had... and now have so many places to stay in Ireland if I go over too, and many friends to visit, will never lack for company or rides or music to play. I wouldn't even mind to travel alone due to all the friends along they way now.
I have a late night bar here too believe me, some require a lot of beer, wine or whiskey to fall asleep!
Where did all the money go from the World Cups? Where does all the money go in Rep of Ireland. If Bertie buys an island soon, you will have your answer.
The GAA spends millions on development, schools and coaches. This oul nonsense about the "Grab All Association" is just that. Nonsense.
I think that iwerzon's question is a good one - that sit'n is all too common when it comes to this music.
Another thing I have often wondered about Comhaltas is why they even structure the tour the way they do. Surely we in North America have produced our fair share of A.I. champs over the years...enough to put a touring group of our own together without having to bring over players and dancers from overseas. Why does Comhaltas see fit not to promote these deserving individuals to the same degree?
A very tired Martin Donohoe here, who is just back today from the USA Tour and my mind is not fit to answer the questions raised above ,BUT I will later in the week if you wish me too.
But it was not all I expected ,and I have raised questions with the cce person who had control of the group while over in the states ,and THE USA CCE TEAM over on the ground were good people ...
As far as I know, CCÉ generally *loses* money on the North American tour. That's unsubstantiated, really, since I don't deal with accounts or anything. I do know that the tours are not generally considered to be a purely commercial venture by any stretch.
But I am pretty sure that the couple of Comhaltas guys who are over with the tours (the tour manager and producer) have more or less the same living conditions as the artists. And it can be a tiring experience, I'm sure; different cities every night is hard on even the most experienced of touring musicians.
Like most things Comhaltas, the reasons for doing the North American tour probably have a lot to do with history; when they were started in the late 60s there just wasn't nearly as much traditional Irish entertainment available. And a lot of well-known trad musicians have gone on the tours over the years since.
Overall, I think that the tours are enjoyed by audiences who appreciate a "non-Riverdance" take on traditional Irish culture.
Yeah, I've seen the outfits. Not quite my thing ... but what I was referring to, kilfarboy, was the standard of the music and dance itself. (The outfits themselves are pretty tame by today's standards, you have to admit!) Incidentally, what 'sort of reality' are you referring to? I mean, we're talking about a necessarily "staged" show here -- they're actually on stage, after all! I suppose you could argue that the artists ought to wear the jeans and track suits that they wear for rehearsal, but I'm not sure I see how that would be more authentic.
Anyway, the sets seem to me thoughtfully considered, often relating to a specific region or player. And of course, this is a concert of music and dance using no african drums, electric guitars or pre-recorded synth tracks. For some reason, a purely acoustic sound seems to be a bit hard to come by these days.
Musical Soul, have a look at the GAA accounts, about the only accounts available for public scrutiny in Ireland. It tells you were the money goes.
They have just given my club 700,000 Euros, so now you know where some of it goes. Antrim, yes poor old Antrim, now employ about 5 coaches, all earning good money, deservedly so. They coach in schools.
Keep an eye on the GAA Players Assoc (GPA). Then you'll see how the GAA are and what they are about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Dessie Farrell, chief executive of the GPA, believes the continued existence of the players' association is threatened by agreements between the GAA and companies such as Cranridge, which he said did not benefit either the GPA or its members.
``Without the funds from our members' personal image rights, we don't exist and we don't provide a platform to pursue and improve player welfare issues,'' he said. ``The use of our rights by the GAA couldn't be tolerated. We have to defend and safeguard those rights.''
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: a paltry 'Golden Handshake' retirement grant:
“This dispute has come up because the GAA and the Government are in dispute about how the grants are to be paid and the players are left with nothing.” Rejecting suggestions that the grants amount to pay for play Farrell said: “This money is divided evenly between all of the players in every county. Everyone gets the same.
“Each player will get about €2,200 each — it’s not a fortune and it is designed to cover players expenses which some County Boards don’t pay, and there are a lot of those.”
"FOR years Gaelic players have felt like they've been trying to run up the lift going down.
And one little cameo sums up perfectly their frustration at the way they are regarded by the mandarins who run the GAA.
It happened just a few weeks ago after one of the prestige All Ireland hurling semi-finals.
A player tried to get to the new corporate premium level in Croke Park. He wanted to use the escalator, only to be told it was for the exclusive use of VIPs.
"But I am a VIP . . . I'm a player," responded the snubbed star.
It's that sort of 'Us' and 'Them' mentality fostered by the GAA top brass which has irritated and annoyed players to the extent that in midweek the GPA - Gaelic Players Association was launched to great acclaim in Belfast. ...."
"....And Canavan [leading player] believes: "The GAA is big business. When you look at the All Ireland series everyone is doing well out of the whole thing except the players - and that's not on." "
Oh, and in case anyone is interested in my opinion on the matter: the GAA, like CCE, are increasingly about Big Money and the exploitation and manipulation of grass roots talent and ambition.
I can't say for sure about the US tour, but the tour in the UK is definately not a money maker. Elements in CCE would like to cancel it because it makes a loss.
There are plenty of problems with CCE and many valid criticisms that can be made, but reaping in the cash from the tours and selfishly keeping it from the musicains is not one of them.
November 2006 at the opening of the Irish Traditional Music Archive in Dublin the then Minister for the Arts John O'Donoghue TD said ;
"...in the last 2 years, I have awarded €5m to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann for its development plan. I believe that this funding provided to the traditional arts will underpin its vitality in the years and generations ahead..."
and they still stick poor Martin on a sofa in a strange house!
CCÉ head honcho Labhrás O'Murchu is a self appointed dictator. I didn't vote for him. Publicise the accounts, where is it all going????? Bru Boru maybe (incidently O'Murchu's wife runs the place)
A bit disingenuous Harry. You could say the same about any sport in the world.
Yes, the GAA makes loads of money, and needs more. That is because the money goes back into the association.
Go to any small town, even Hamlet, in Ireland. Apart from a fancy chapel, from times past, the new feature are GAA clubs, with floodlights, halls, club rooms. A lot of hard work goes into that, unpaid labour, including selling tickets and such to raise money. If the club is prepared to put in the effort, the GAA will respond in kind.
I agree that players should not be out of pocket, but that is it. Introduce pay for play, and you kill the sport. You are then into the realms of ruin as in rugby in Wales, or fixed TV entertainments like formula One and Champions league soccer, where the trophy is shared around among those already rich, as long as you are a member of the G14.
I also agree that there are a lot of what I would call fascists running sections of the GAA, but someone votes for them, unfortunately. I mean, I spent 30 years trying to get the ban on security forces removed, but perseverance paid off.
The GAA is the very essence of the social fabric of rural Irish society, and a big influence in the cities as well. The work volunteers do with children is to be treasured and admired, not derided so that some "star" can earn loads of money, while the volunteers starve. In short the GAA is like an extended family, where all can enjoy the rewards, not just the privileged few.
So an association that is mostly run by dyed in the wool conservatives, turns out to be surprisingly socialist in nature.
And the clubs have nurtured the budding careers of many a musician.
The well-meaning, hard working and well intentioned people that are the grass roots foundation of both GAA and CCE are being made a very taken-for-granted sideshow.
Between the extremes of pay-for-play/ the commercial exploitations of GAA executive management ,and the young raw musical talent/ political and financial exploitation of CCE's main resource (its musicians/activists) there may be fair, balanced solutions.
But, as it is, its the old 'cart in front on the ass' syndrome yet again. Its about control and money from the top. Disturbingly so in CCE's case given that it is a thorougly un-transparent and undemocratic 'organisation': should an organisation with that many members that has a self-installed lifetime president and no democratic decision making process be given millions in public money? Is anyone familiar with the term 'good and proper governance'?
At least the GAA players are getting organised for themselves.
I agree about CCE, not my favourite people, and I agree that the GAA has many faults, but it has accomplished much for the good of many. As a Trade Union rep, voluntary, I appreciate the GPA. Indeed one of my workmates, All Ireland Tyrone winner, faces the sack due an injury sustained while playing for the county. Something needs to be done in these areas. The GAA is practically professional in all but name, at top level. I have no objection to players earning money from media work or advertising, but the game does not generate enough money to be professional. And professional sport in 2007 stinks.
CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
I received word that the musicians, singers and dancers presently on the CCÉ North American tour are not receiving the best of treatment. Renowned musicians, married men of a certain age are having to share beds with 17 year old lads, dancers are made sleep on couches in strangers homes, terrible food, couple of dollars payment. Im sure the comhaltas executives are not roughing it. What happens to the money generated from the 9 concerts? While we are at it, why does CCÉ headquarters refuse to fund county, provincial and All Ireland Fleadhs? They expect host towns to reaise £1000's to entertain the Comhaltes executives and their partners. Has anyone had a bad (or good) comhaltas experience?
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by iwerzon
Ooh Er Matron!
I know married blokes "of a certain age" who would welcome sharing a bed with a seventeen year old lad!
And dancers sleeping on couches in strangers' houses?
A few "dancers" I have known specialize in this!
Polari Mr. Horne!!
And niether do I believe in the stereotype that all male dancers are gay and female dancers bendy girlfriends of musicians.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
What do you call a trad musician without a girlfriend?
Homeless!
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by iwerzon
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Sounds like great craic,
who is complaining?
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by proinsiasrua
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
I am confused, I usually do not see trad music and money discussed in the same paragraph--who on earth would think that trad music would generate cash in any meaningful quantities?
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
COMHALTAS REMINDS ME OF THE GAA
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by musical soul
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
What is "the GAA"?
(By the way, no need to shout!)
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Any cash generated at the CCÉ concerts should be spent on the artists involved - decent hotel rooms at least. No-one knows where it all goes. Its the next tribunal Labhrás
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by iwerzon
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Most musicians I know are really happy to be put up somewhere and save the money a hotel would cost, maybe they get paid a bit more this way on the CCE tour, no matter what the organization gets. Maybe it's a win-win for all really.
the musicians or performers of any kind are generally very good company and great houseguests, and enjoy their host's hospitality. With most of our performers who play at IAANJ, they look forward to a stay at "The Iris Motel" as it is now called. More personal attention than a hotel, never mind a few dust bunnies. Others who put up performers go out of their way to make their homes comfy for them. Usually they are treated royally, better than a hotel ever would, and the price is right of course. Here they wake to homemade muffins and jelly from the pear tree or grapevines in the yard, and homemade soap. Well fed and sent on their way happy and rested.
It's a great way also for touring musicians, dancers, especially the kids, but adults too, to make new friends on tour. Most are invited back for a reciprocal visit in Ireland. It's a pretty OK system I think. And as Al says, who would think they'd generate cash in any meaningful quantities. Let them keep it rather than spend it all on hotels. It might make touring very unworthwhile for a lot of people if they had nowhere to stay.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Have to agree with Al on this one as concerts with an admission charge of 10 Euro a head to see 16 or so musicians and dancers perform are hardly likely to raise bucket loads of money. I can't vouch for some of those "unusual" sleeping arrangements over there in the States but I can assure you that here in Ennis the old morals still apply, and after tonight's show in Cois na hAbhna all artistes will be safely tucked up in their leabas in the Auburn Lodge Hotel!
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
A cross post here and I hope Iris Nevins doesn't take offence! I was being tongue in cheek and didn't seriously intend to suggest moral superiority with our hotel situation here in Ennis over the "host family" approach in operation down through the years for American tours. Iris has very effectively listed the many advantages of this method although there will always be some artistes who would opt for a late night bar. I may be wrong but I think most tours will include some of both kinds of accommodation so that at the end of the day everyone will be catered for.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by Bannerman
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
CCÉ are stuck in 1950's rural Catholic Ireland. Do great stuff for kids and learners who when they grow up realise CCÉ are a pack of backward thinking purest who think the winner of a fiddle competition in late August is the undisputed best fiddle player existing in Ireland. What a load of old Sh*te. CCÉ are the musical wing of Opus Dei, are not transparent when it comes to funds and are not democratic.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by iwerzon
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
The artists I speak about have no problem with staying with host families, its just that on this occassion it went wrong. They got $200 for 9 gigs (all sold out at over $25 a ticket) and by the sounds of it they were not looked after very well (unlike previous years I'm sure). Its a long way from home and 1st time abroad for some so all I'm saying is I think their welfare and comfort should be a priority.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by iwerzon
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Bannerman.... I rarely take offense at much at all, don't worry. I know you were kidding. I was reflecting on some of the very nice visits from musicians I have had... and now have so many places to stay in Ireland if I go over too, and many friends to visit, will never lack for company or rides or music to play. I wouldn't even mind to travel alone due to all the friends along they way now.
I have a late night bar here too
believe me, some require a lot of beer, wine or whiskey to fall asleep!
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
I heard a saying the other day "theres no money in good music"
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by Button Box
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
The GAA is the Gaelic Athletics Association
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by musical soul
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Dear CCE,
I am a male fiddler currently without a bendy dancer girlfriend. Please send one post haste to...
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Where did all the money go from the World Cups? Where does all the money go in Rep of Ireland. If Bertie buys an island soon, you will have your answer.
The GAA spends millions on development, schools and coaches. This oul nonsense about the "Grab All Association" is just that. Nonsense.
Peace and love to you all.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
I think that iwerzon's question is a good one - that sit'n is all too common when it comes to this music.
Another thing I have often wondered about Comhaltas is why they even structure the tour the way they do. Surely we in North America have produced our fair share of A.I. champs over the years...enough to put a touring group of our own together without having to bring over players and dancers from overseas. Why does Comhaltas see fit not to promote these deserving individuals to the same degree?
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by dtb
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
GAA spends millions on development schools and coaching... ha ha... that comment is hilarious!!!
and has brightened up my day that people believe that
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by musical soul
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
A very tired Martin Donohoe here, who is just back today from the USA Tour and my mind is not fit to answer the questions raised above ,BUT I will later in the week if you wish me too.
But it was not all I expected ,and I have raised questions with the cce person who had control of the group while over in the states ,and THE USA CCE TEAM over on the ground were good people ...
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by Martin Donohoe
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
As far as I know, CCÉ generally *loses* money on the North American tour. That's unsubstantiated, really, since I don't deal with accounts or anything. I do know that the tours are not generally considered to be a purely commercial venture by any stretch.
But I am pretty sure that the couple of Comhaltas guys who are over with the tours (the tour manager and producer) have more or less the same living conditions as the artists. And it can be a tiring experience, I'm sure; different cities every night is hard on even the most experienced of touring musicians.
Like most things Comhaltas, the reasons for doing the North American tour probably have a lot to do with history; when they were started in the late 60s there just wasn't nearly as much traditional Irish entertainment available. And a lot of well-known trad musicians have gone on the tours over the years since.
Overall, I think that the tours are enjoyed by audiences who appreciate a "non-Riverdance" take on traditional Irish culture.
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by b
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
'Overall, I think that the tours are enjoyed by audiences who appreciate a "non-Riverdance" take on traditional Irish culture.'
You mean the people who like musicians and dancers dressed in a way that has nothing whatsoever to do with any sort of reality?
The sort of 'Bunratty on tour' outfits, you know what I mean.
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by kilfarboy
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Yeah, I've seen the outfits. Not quite my thing ... but what I was referring to, kilfarboy, was the standard of the music and dance itself. (The outfits themselves are pretty tame by today's standards, you have to admit!) Incidentally, what 'sort of reality' are you referring to? I mean, we're talking about a necessarily "staged" show here -- they're actually on stage, after all! I suppose you could argue that the artists ought to wear the jeans and track suits that they wear for rehearsal, but I'm not sure I see how that would be more authentic.
Anyway, the sets seem to me thoughtfully considered, often relating to a specific region or player. And of course, this is a concert of music and dance using no african drums, electric guitars or pre-recorded synth tracks. For some reason, a purely acoustic sound seems to be a bit hard to come by these days.
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by b
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Musical Soul, have a look at the GAA accounts, about the only accounts available for public scrutiny in Ireland. It tells you were the money goes.
They have just given my club 700,000 Euros, so now you know where some of it goes. Antrim, yes poor old Antrim, now employ about 5 coaches, all earning good money, deservedly so. They coach in schools.
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/news/story.asp?j=6453&cat=sport
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2004/08/29/story499804117.asp
Keep an eye on the GAA Players Assoc (GPA). Then you'll see how the GAA are and what they are about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Dessie Farrell, chief executive of the GPA, believes the continued existence of the players' association is threatened by agreements between the GAA and companies such as Cranridge, which he said did not benefit either the GPA or its members.
``Without the funds from our members' personal image rights, we don't exist and we don't provide a platform to pursue and improve player welfare issues,'' he said. ``The use of our rights by the GAA couldn't be tolerated. We have to defend and safeguard those rights.''
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Re: a paltry 'Golden Handshake' retirement grant:
“This dispute has come up because the GAA and the Government are in dispute about how the grants are to be paid and the players are left with nothing.” Rejecting suggestions that the grants amount to pay for play Farrell said: “This money is divided evenly between all of the players in every county. Everyone gets the same.
“Each player will get about €2,200 each — it’s not a fortune and it is designed to cover players expenses which some County Boards don’t pay, and there are a lot of those.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19990919/ai_n14493124
"FOR years Gaelic players have felt like they've been trying to run up the lift going down.
And one little cameo sums up perfectly their frustration at the way they are regarded by the mandarins who run the GAA.
It happened just a few weeks ago after one of the prestige All Ireland hurling semi-finals.
A player tried to get to the new corporate premium level in Croke Park. He wanted to use the escalator, only to be told it was for the exclusive use of VIPs.
"But I am a VIP . . . I'm a player," responded the snubbed star.
It's that sort of 'Us' and 'Them' mentality fostered by the GAA top brass which has irritated and annoyed players to the extent that in midweek the GPA - Gaelic Players Association was launched to great acclaim in Belfast. ...."
"....And Canavan [leading player] believes: "The GAA is big business. When you look at the All Ireland series everyone is doing well out of the whole thing except the players - and that's not on." "
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Harry B
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Oh, and in case anyone is interested in my opinion on the matter: the GAA, like CCE, are increasingly about Big Money and the exploitation and manipulation of grass roots talent and ambition.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Harry B
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
I can't say for sure about the US tour, but the tour in the UK is definately not a money maker. Elements in CCE would like to cancel it because it makes a loss.
There are plenty of problems with CCE and many valid criticisms that can be made, but reaping in the cash from the tours and selfishly keeping it from the musicains is not one of them.
- Chris
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Tours are a sideshow. That's not where the Big Bucks and power are at.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Harry B
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
November 2006 at the opening of the Irish Traditional Music Archive in Dublin the then Minister for the Arts John O'Donoghue TD said ;
"...in the last 2 years, I have awarded €5m to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann for its development plan. I believe that this funding provided to the traditional arts will underpin its vitality in the years and generations ahead..."
and they still stick poor Martin on a sofa in a strange house!
CCÉ head honcho Labhrás O'Murchu is a self appointed dictator. I didn't vote for him. Publicise the accounts, where is it all going????? Bru Boru maybe (incidently O'Murchu's wife runs the place)
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by iwerzon
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
Harry you above comments regarding the GAA are spot on
fair play....
rgds
Soul
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by musical soul
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
The Gaa do alot more than the rugby in Cork for kids
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by Saint
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
cork and rugby.... :( cork and GAA
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by musical soul
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
A bit disingenuous Harry. You could say the same about any sport in the world.
Yes, the GAA makes loads of money, and needs more. That is because the money goes back into the association.
Go to any small town, even Hamlet, in Ireland. Apart from a fancy chapel, from times past, the new feature are GAA clubs, with floodlights, halls, club rooms. A lot of hard work goes into that, unpaid labour, including selling tickets and such to raise money. If the club is prepared to put in the effort, the GAA will respond in kind.
I agree that players should not be out of pocket, but that is it. Introduce pay for play, and you kill the sport. You are then into the realms of ruin as in rugby in Wales, or fixed TV entertainments like formula One and Champions league soccer, where the trophy is shared around among those already rich, as long as you are a member of the G14.
I also agree that there are a lot of what I would call fascists running sections of the GAA, but someone votes for them, unfortunately. I mean, I spent 30 years trying to get the ban on security forces removed, but perseverance paid off.
The GAA is the very essence of the social fabric of rural Irish society, and a big influence in the cities as well. The work volunteers do with children is to be treasured and admired, not derided so that some "star" can earn loads of money, while the volunteers starve. In short the GAA is like an extended family, where all can enjoy the rewards, not just the privileged few.
So an association that is mostly run by dyed in the wool conservatives, turns out to be surprisingly socialist in nature.
And the clubs have nurtured the budding careers of many a musician.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
The well-meaning, hard working and well intentioned people that are the grass roots foundation of both GAA and CCE are being made a very taken-for-granted sideshow.
Between the extremes of pay-for-play/ the commercial exploitations of GAA executive management ,and the young raw musical talent/ political and financial exploitation of CCE's main resource (its musicians/activists) there may be fair, balanced solutions.
But, as it is, its the old 'cart in front on the ass' syndrome yet again. Its about control and money from the top. Disturbingly so in CCE's case given that it is a thorougly un-transparent and undemocratic 'organisation': should an organisation with that many members that has a self-installed lifetime president and no democratic decision making process be given millions in public money? Is anyone familiar with the term 'good and proper governance'?
At least the GAA players are getting organised for themselves.
Regards,
Harry.
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by Harry B
Re: CCÉ Tour - Where does all the cash go????
I agree about CCE, not my favourite people, and I agree that the GAA has many faults, but it has accomplished much for the good of many. As a Trade Union rep, voluntary, I appreciate the GPA. Indeed one of my workmates, All Ireland Tyrone winner, faces the sack due an injury sustained while playing for the county. Something needs to be done in these areas. The GAA is practically professional in all but name, at top level. I have no objection to players earning money from media work or advertising, but the game does not generate enough money to be professional. And professional sport in 2007 stinks.
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by bodhran bliss