Hi all. I've got a pair of my grandfathers banjos ("The Gibson") from the early teens that he used in banjo orchastras of the time. The tenor I put proper strings on for Irish tuning and am having fun with it. The plectrum banjo is another matter. It seems I should be able to use it for chord backing or something, but I can't decide what strings to use or the first decision, how I should tune it for ITM.
The answer might be to just leave it in it's case. But I was thinking of setting it up so it would play an octave lower than the tenor, and it might be fun to beat out some chords on. The length from bridge to nut is 25 inches.
I met a lady from Cork who played a Gibson Mastertone plectrum banjo as a tenor - i.e. playing tunes. She bought it in ignorance, thinking it was a standard tenor banjo, and just got on with learning to play it. She doesn't have big hands, as far as I remember, she just learned a technique that enabled her to cope with the longer scale - and she plays some fine music on it.
Chord backing? It can be done on a banjo. But, unless it's done exceptionally tastefully, it might not be looked upon favourably. As a tenor banjo player, if you are want to learn backing, you'd be better off starting with bouzouki or octave mandolin.
An octave lower than the tenor?? If your tenor banjo were tuned CGDA, then an octave lower would be cello tuning, which would be *very* low for a banjo. But you say that you have tuned your tenor to 'Irish' tuning (GDAE). An octave lower than that and you'd be into double bass territory - and you want to beat out chords on that??
Not really a serious proposal more a silly idea - if your Gibson tenor is a 19 fret, why not remove the plectrum neck from its pot, put it in in safe keeping and replace it with a custom made 17 fret neck, or vice versa if the existing's a 17 fret.
There are plenty of good banjo makers who would be up to doing that kind of thing in good taste.
Tuning a plectrum to tenor tuning probably won't work, but one of the popular plectrum tunings is to use the last four strings of a guitar (the other is the first four strings of a five string banjo tuned to C.
A plectrum banjo can be tuned to Irish tenor tuning , I did this for some months when my tenor wasn,t available, but what a work out for the fingers, playing melody on that thing was an exercise in stretching! I was very happy to get back to my 19 fret tenor, it seemed so much easier after a few months of torture on the plectrum !!
"Tuning a plectrum to tenor tuning probably won't work"
Why not, Mike, if you choose your string gauges properly?
Mandobrynley - Yes, it's hard work if you're used to the standard tenor scale length. But for the said woman from Cork (see first reply), it appeared to be effortless. So, it can be done - and it sounded beautiful.
cjp - as padre backing, you'd be better off joining a Dixie band.
I have my grandpa's plectrum tuned like the top four strings of my guitar (DGBE), which I understand was pretty common back in the days they were popular. That way, anything I learn on the banjo can be transferred to the guitar and vice versa.
There was a fair amount of strummed banjo back in the Irish music hall days, and the Clancy Brothers used it from time to time accompanying songs, so if you are looking for that sort of retro accompaniment, the plectrum banjo will do the trick.
But for most stuff, using a strumming banjo for accompaniment is like using a sledge hammer to swat flies. I sometimes play it in church, as it can keep a whole congregation in line, but a small ensemble would be overwhelmed by the thing.
I guess that the banjo's scale length is around 25-27".
There are plenty of bouzoukis around with similar scale lengths that cope with GDAE very nicely.
Why not give it a try - you could use very light strings 10 14 20w 30 or the like and still have reasonable string tension - it should give a really crisp sound and with such light strings you could use a relatively soft plectrum to take some of the stress off your right wrist.
millionyears-bc is correct, you could do that, and I can play the tunes ( when I know them ) on my GDae-tuned 'zouk without any problems ( so long as the fiddler isn't rocketing off at 90 mph ).
But it's easy enough to string and tune a plectrum banjo - if you can't find a plectrum banjo set, just buy a 5-string banjo set and leave out the 5th/half/top g string ( well, you haven't got a tuner for it anyway ). A plectrum banjo is just a 5-string without the 5th string. Standard tuning would be CGbd I believe, ie the C tuning for a 5-string, but without the half-string of course.
Also, yes, instead, find out where the correct fret would be to give you a tenor-banjo scale length, put a capo on it, and tune to another tenor banjo.
PS Shouldn't there be another name for these 4-string banjos tuned GDae ? After all, a tenor banjo is tuned the same as a mandola, isn't it, ie a 5th below a mandolin or violin ? So shouldn't a banjo tuned an OCTAVE below a fiddle be given a different name ? Not just called a 17-fret, or whatever ?
PPS There's not much call for plectrum banjos these days, outside of trad jazz and banjo bands. There's a lot of them around Henley-on-Thames at Regatta time.
Thanks all for the feedback. I actually have Grand Pap's tenor banjo as well, and have been learning tunes on that. I just was wondering what use could be made out of the plectrum banjo. Like NameChangesRConfusing says, instruments are made to be played. I play guitar as well, so the guitar DGBE tuning is an interesting idea.
Perhaps I'll take it to the local Guitar Center and see what the folks there suggest. I saw some vintage banjos hanging on their wall last time I was in there.
I'm sure that your local Guitar Center is great for guitars, but beware of guitar specialists - they aren't always the best people to advise on banjos, even though they may sell one or two.
Whatever you might be told, banjos are very different to guitars and require specialised knowledge. Try to find a banjo expert near home.
As to my earlier reply - of course, if you are going to play it as a tenor/octave banjo, put the right strings on it, put on a capo at the appropriate fret to give you the right scale length, THEN tune it as a tenor/whatever banjo.
Good luck !
Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
Hi all. I've got a pair of my grandfathers banjos ("The Gibson") from the early teens that he used in banjo orchastras of the time. The tenor I put proper strings on for Irish tuning and am having fun with it. The plectrum banjo is another matter. It seems I should be able to use it for chord backing or something, but I can't decide what strings to use or the first decision, how I should tune it for ITM.
The answer might be to just leave it in it's case. But I was thinking of setting it up so it would play an octave lower than the tenor, and it might be fun to beat out some chords on. The length from bridge to nut is 25 inches.
Thoughts anyone?
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by cjp
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
I met a lady from Cork who played a Gibson Mastertone plectrum banjo as a tenor - i.e. playing tunes. She bought it in ignorance, thinking it was a standard tenor banjo, and just got on with learning to play it. She doesn't have big hands, as far as I remember, she just learned a technique that enabled her to cope with the longer scale - and she plays some fine music on it.
Chord backing? It can be done on a banjo. But, unless it's done exceptionally tastefully, it might not be looked upon favourably. As a tenor banjo player, if you are want to learn backing, you'd be better off starting with bouzouki or octave mandolin.
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
An octave lower than the tenor?? If your tenor banjo were tuned CGDA, then an octave lower would be cello tuning, which would be *very* low for a banjo. But you say that you have tuned your tenor to 'Irish' tuning (GDAE). An octave lower than that and you'd be into double bass territory - and you want to beat out chords on that??
Please warn me if you're ever coming to Wales...
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
if you put strings on the heavy side[40 or 42 on the bottom] then tune it in 5ths with an E on the bottom, then capo on the third fret, there you go.
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by Dont
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
Not really a serious proposal more a silly idea - if your Gibson tenor is a 19 fret, why not remove the plectrum neck from its pot, put it in in safe keeping and replace it with a custom made 17 fret neck, or vice versa if the existing's a 17 fret.
There are plenty of good banjo makers who would be up to doing that kind of thing in good taste.
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
Tuning a plectrum to tenor tuning probably won't work, but one of the popular plectrum tunings is to use the last four strings of a guitar (the other is the first four strings of a five string banjo tuned to C.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
or you may just
leave the tuning on plectrum as it is
and learn to play backing for dixieland tunes
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by padre
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
A plectrum banjo can be tuned to Irish tenor tuning , I did this for some months when my tenor wasn,t available, but what a work out for the fingers, playing melody on that thing was an exercise in stretching! I was very happy to get back to my 19 fret tenor, it seemed so much easier after a few months of torture on the plectrum !!
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by mandobrynley
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
"Tuning a plectrum to tenor tuning probably won't work"
Why not, Mike, if you choose your string gauges properly?
Mandobrynley - Yes, it's hard work if you're used to the standard tenor scale length. But for the said woman from Cork (see first reply), it appeared to be effortless. So, it can be done - and it sounded beautiful.
cjp - as padre backing, you'd be better off joining a Dixie band.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
Take 2: As padre says, if you want to use your plectrum banjo for backing, you'd be better off joining a Dixie band.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
...but don't leave it in its case. Instruments are made to be played.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
I have my grandpa's plectrum tuned like the top four strings of my guitar (DGBE), which I understand was pretty common back in the days they were popular. That way, anything I learn on the banjo can be transferred to the guitar and vice versa.
There was a fair amount of strummed banjo back in the Irish music hall days, and the Clancy Brothers used it from time to time accompanying songs, so if you are looking for that sort of retro accompaniment, the plectrum banjo will do the trick.
But for most stuff, using a strumming banjo for accompaniment is like using a sledge hammer to swat flies. I sometimes play it in church, as it can keep a whole congregation in line, but a small ensemble would be overwhelmed by the thing.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
I guess that the banjo's scale length is around 25-27".
There are plenty of bouzoukis around with similar scale lengths that cope with GDAE very nicely.
Why not give it a try - you could use very light strings 10 14 20w 30 or the like and still have reasonable string tension - it should give a really crisp sound and with such light strings you could use a relatively soft plectrum to take some of the stress off your right wrist.
Let us know how it goes if you try this way.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
millionyears-bc is correct, you could do that, and I can play the tunes ( when I know them ) on my GDae-tuned 'zouk without any problems ( so long as the fiddler isn't rocketing off at 90 mph ).
But it's easy enough to string and tune a plectrum banjo - if you can't find a plectrum banjo set, just buy a 5-string banjo set and leave out the 5th/half/top g string ( well, you haven't got a tuner for it anyway ). A plectrum banjo is just a 5-string without the 5th string. Standard tuning would be CGbd I believe, ie the C tuning for a 5-string, but without the half-string of course.
Also, yes, instead, find out where the correct fret would be to give you a tenor-banjo scale length, put a capo on it, and tune to another tenor banjo.
PS Shouldn't there be another name for these 4-string banjos tuned GDae ? After all, a tenor banjo is tuned the same as a mandola, isn't it, ie a 5th below a mandolin or violin ? So shouldn't a banjo tuned an OCTAVE below a fiddle be given a different name ? Not just called a 17-fret, or whatever ?
PPS There's not much call for plectrum banjos these days, outside of trad jazz and banjo bands. There's a lot of them around Henley-on-Thames at Regatta time.
# Posted on October 23rd 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
Thanks all for the feedback. I actually have Grand Pap's tenor banjo as well, and have been learning tunes on that. I just was wondering what use could be made out of the plectrum banjo. Like NameChangesRConfusing says, instruments are made to be played. I play guitar as well, so the guitar DGBE tuning is an interesting idea.
Perhaps I'll take it to the local Guitar Center and see what the folks there suggest. I saw some vintage banjos hanging on their wall last time I was in there.
Cheers,
Carey
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by cjp
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
I'm sure that your local Guitar Center is great for guitars, but beware of guitar specialists - they aren't always the best people to advise on banjos, even though they may sell one or two.
Whatever you might be told, banjos are very different to guitars and require specialised knowledge. Try to find a banjo expert near home.
# Posted on October 24th 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Vintage plectrum banjo for ITM
As to my earlier reply - of course, if you are going to play it as a tenor/octave banjo, put the right strings on it, put on a capo at the appropriate fret to give you the right scale length, THEN tune it as a tenor/whatever banjo.
Good luck !
# Posted on October 25th 2007 by Guernsey Pete