Well, I just got one of these via the Internet and going by the Deering name and another model I'd played at Gryphon's in Palo Alto, thought it would be a good deal. I paid $1500 for it and a search around had them going for $1700-$2200. I'm not sure I'm all that happy with it. It's well-made and all, but it doesn't sound much better than my $200 Favilla Bros tenor I bought seven years ago. Another banjo friend says he even prefers the old one.
Maybe I should send it back? Or give it time? Or try a new head? New strings? Maybe I was expecting it to be made out of gold or something...I don't know. But I was thinking I'd just LOVE it, and I'm not warming up to it. Anyone else have one? What do you think?
one of my freinds has a deering 19 fret tenor, i wasn't much impressed until he put a fyberskin head on it, now i really like it. also, is your's set up to play nice and easy? that always has a big effect on how i feel about a new instrument.
I have a Deering Calico tenor, have had for about 7 years and quite frankly, it beats the knickers off my C.E. Paragon. It has a better tone and is a pleasure to play. I haven't had the opportunity to play either another Deering or Paragon to make any other comparison but I know what I like best.
It all depends on what you want it to sound like and how its set up at the moment. It may never have been set up properly since it left Deering's plant if you bought it from a high street shop. Do you know how you wnat it to sound?
There are plenty of things you can adjust to improve and modify the sound. Head tension, head type, string gauge, bridge type/weight, tailpiece/break angle are the main ones.
For a nice round sound try a Renaissnace head at fairly low tension with a break angle over the bridge of about 12 degrees, and fit bronze strings gauge 12 18w 28 38. It might do the trick.
If you don't know how to do it, go to a setup specialist - you can waste a lot of time otherwise.
Yeah, I was thinking maybe the setup would be a big factor. I have a fiberskin head that I put on my other banjo and that did make a world of difference on it. So maybe I'll do it on this one. I changed the strings from what was on it. I use classical guitar silverwrap wound strings for the G and D (the 5th and 4th guitar strings) and an 18w nickel for the A. I may file down the bridge a bit, too. What's a Renaissance head?
I changed the head on my other banjo and I'm not afraid to do work on it myself, but I didn't want to mess with it until I was sure I was going to keep it.
Thanks for all of your input. The wealth of information and the contacts on this site is invaluable. We should have a big "thesession.org" party/get together sometime. Maybe one year in the states and another year abroad. We'd have one helluva session then!
If you want more input on this you might also try posting on the "Celtic" or "Builder/Repair" sections of mandolincafe.com -- lot's of TB players over there too, and luthiere Paul Hostetter frequests the latter.
"I use classical guitar silverwrap wound strings for the G and D (the 5th and 4th guitar strings) and an 18w nickel for the A."
Are you saying that you use silver-wrapped nylon strings on an Irish tuned tenor? I find it hard to imagine how those might sound. Do they feel kind of slack? Do you have a sound file that you could link to? I'm sort of interested, but I also wonder if the tension of nylon strings might be in some way responsible for the wonky, less-than-compelling sound.
(And to answer your question, Renaissance heads are synthetic heads that are supposed to approximate the sound and feel of a calfskin. Compared to fyberskins [which I find muddy and flat], Renaissance heads are brighter and more responsive but less bright than your basic white or clear plastic heads).
Upsetter,
I don't have a sound file (if I do I don't know how to get it to you), but the strings can be bought singly. I pay $1.80 a piece for them and you could get one of each and check'em out. I think they take away the tinny sound and give it a nice full mellow sound. Of course, it depends on what your banjo sounds like to begin with.
I think I'll get the Renaissance, since I'd like the sound to be somewhere in between this plastic head it has now and the fiberskyn sound on my other banjo. Appreciate your advice.
Also, Keith, I'll check with Paul. I sort of know him from Lark Camp although I've never met him formally.
I'd say that your setup is probably not optimal and that you could do a lot to improve the sound of your banjo.
Each banjo maker imbues a special sound to their design. In the vintage days there used to be a lot of discussion over which was the best sounding banjo for specific purposes (Vega v. Bacon, etc. sort of a Chevy v. Ford) because you could really tell the difference.
Nowadays most banjos are Gibson clones, but there are differences. You may or may not like the sound once it is setup properly, but the Deering you have is a quality instrument.
I would tighten the head a quarter turn evenly around, play it and then tighten again over a period of several days. You will not break the head or the banjo as long as the tension ring is square and evenly stressed. At some point you will find a tone you like, then continue to tighten until it chokes the sound out. You can reverse the process the proper number of quarter turns until you return to the sound you like.
I would definitely change the strings to the gages mentioned above. Elderly sells two GHS sets that are very nice and will go well with your banjo. I have been using the D'addario Octave mandolin strings on my main banjo recently and really like them. YMMV, however so you need to experiment with different gages and a new bridge.
Give your banjo a chance and if you can find someone to do it, get a professional setup done. Remember, the banjo as you got it has already stretched the head (so it is too loose) and the factory probably did not use the best bridge. The head and the tailpiece are probably OK for now. I have a new banjo that is a month old and I am still setting it up. right now it sounds pretty good, so I think I have it dialed in, but there is always room for improvement.
The most important piece of setup is playability. If the banjo is easy to play (i.e. setup well at the nut, bridgethe correct size, neck set properly, etc.) then it becomes a pleasure to play. The tone, as long as it is complex and the G string rings out) is not as important since you can change it significantly by changing the head tension, head, strings, tailpiece setting, tailpiece, and picks in that order.
Maybe I'll give those strings a try out - couldn't hurt and might be fun. Were you using these before you were using the Deering? If so, what kind of banjo was it?
Although on the banjo I use most at the moment I've installed a calfskin (real skins sound GREAT, BTW, but are really temperamental), I really think the Renaissance heads are where it's at as far as synthetic heads go. Do think about giving one a try.
Thanks for responding, Mike. You know your instruments. My vintage banjo, the Favilla Bros (not well-known but it's a great instrument), sounded better once I messed around with it. Tightening the head was self-explanatory, however on this Deering, I can't figure out how to tighten it. What's the trick?
Right now the G and D strings buzz, which shouldn't happen on a new instrument.
I may end up changing the head, and then I'll be taking it apart and figuring out stuff. Also, the nut seems high. I want to file it down, as well as some touch up on the bridge, but it's brand new and I'm hesitating to make my usual toying around marks.
And yes, Upsetter, I did have those strings on my other banjo. I tried the GHS Celtic Tenor strings, but I don't like the heavy gauges or the plunky/tinny sound. I've used both D'Addario and Augustine 4th and 5th classical guitar strings on the banjo. It is one strand and you just make a figure of eight knot on one end to hold it. See http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Knots_gallery.htm
I just took off the resonator...so I figured out where to tighten the head. Guess I was just a little hesitant to touch anything! I also found the manual online.
where can you get a banjo set up like mentioned above? i have a richmond tenor that i bought for 400 quid. its nothing special but i reckon it might sound a bit sweeter if i get it tweaked.
Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Well, I just got one of these via the Internet and going by the Deering name and another model I'd played at Gryphon's in Palo Alto, thought it would be a good deal. I paid $1500 for it and a search around had them going for $1700-$2200. I'm not sure I'm all that happy with it. It's well-made and all, but it doesn't sound much better than my $200 Favilla Bros tenor I bought seven years ago. Another banjo friend says he even prefers the old one.
Maybe I should send it back? Or give it time? Or try a new head? New strings? Maybe I was expecting it to be made out of gold or something...I don't know. But I was thinking I'd just LOVE it, and I'm not warming up to it. Anyone else have one? What do you think?
# Posted on October 20th 2007 by banjobabe
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Haven't played a Deering tenor that I liked. I think they're way overpriced, but that's just my $0.02.
For that kind of money, you can get a really cracking vintage banjo.
# Posted on October 20th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
one of my freinds has a deering 19 fret tenor, i wasn't much impressed until he put a fyberskin head on it, now i really like it. also, is your's set up to play nice and easy? that always has a big effect on how i feel about a new instrument.
# Posted on October 20th 2007 by Dont
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
I have a Deering Calico tenor, have had for about 7 years and quite frankly, it beats the knickers off my C.E. Paragon. It has a better tone and is a pleasure to play. I haven't had the opportunity to play either another Deering or Paragon to make any other comparison but I know what I like best.
# Posted on October 20th 2007 by AngusF
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
It all depends on what you want it to sound like and how its set up at the moment. It may never have been set up properly since it left Deering's plant if you bought it from a high street shop. Do you know how you wnat it to sound?
There are plenty of things you can adjust to improve and modify the sound. Head tension, head type, string gauge, bridge type/weight, tailpiece/break angle are the main ones.
For a nice round sound try a Renaissnace head at fairly low tension with a break angle over the bridge of about 12 degrees, and fit bronze strings gauge 12 18w 28 38. It might do the trick.
If you don't know how to do it, go to a setup specialist - you can waste a lot of time otherwise.
Good luck
# Posted on October 20th 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Yeah, I was thinking maybe the setup would be a big factor. I have a fiberskin head that I put on my other banjo and that did make a world of difference on it. So maybe I'll do it on this one. I changed the strings from what was on it. I use classical guitar silverwrap wound strings for the G and D (the 5th and 4th guitar strings) and an 18w nickel for the A. I may file down the bridge a bit, too. What's a Renaissance head?
I changed the head on my other banjo and I'm not afraid to do work on it myself, but I didn't want to mess with it until I was sure I was going to keep it.
Thanks for all of your input. The wealth of information and the contacts on this site is invaluable. We should have a big "thesession.org" party/get together sometime. Maybe one year in the states and another year abroad. We'd have one helluva session then!
# Posted on October 20th 2007 by banjobabe
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
banjobabe,
If you want more input on this you might also try posting on the "Celtic" or "Builder/Repair" sections of mandolincafe.com -- lot's of TB players over there too, and luthiere Paul Hostetter frequests the latter.
Good luck getting it sorted out!
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Hold on a second...you wrote:
"I use classical guitar silverwrap wound strings for the G and D (the 5th and 4th guitar strings) and an 18w nickel for the A."
Are you saying that you use silver-wrapped nylon strings on an Irish tuned tenor? I find it hard to imagine how those might sound. Do they feel kind of slack? Do you have a sound file that you could link to? I'm sort of interested, but I also wonder if the tension of nylon strings might be in some way responsible for the wonky, less-than-compelling sound.
(And to answer your question, Renaissance heads are synthetic heads that are supposed to approximate the sound and feel of a calfskin. Compared to fyberskins [which I find muddy and flat], Renaissance heads are brighter and more responsive but less bright than your basic white or clear plastic heads).
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by Upsetter
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Upsetter,
I don't have a sound file (if I do I don't know how to get it to you), but the strings can be bought singly. I pay $1.80 a piece for them and you could get one of each and check'em out. I think they take away the tinny sound and give it a nice full mellow sound. Of course, it depends on what your banjo sounds like to begin with.
I think I'll get the Renaissance, since I'd like the sound to be somewhere in between this plastic head it has now and the fiberskyn sound on my other banjo. Appreciate your advice.
Also, Keith, I'll check with Paul. I sort of know him from Lark Camp although I've never met him formally.
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by banjobabe
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
I'd say that your setup is probably not optimal and that you could do a lot to improve the sound of your banjo.
Each banjo maker imbues a special sound to their design. In the vintage days there used to be a lot of discussion over which was the best sounding banjo for specific purposes (Vega v. Bacon, etc. sort of a Chevy v. Ford) because you could really tell the difference.
Nowadays most banjos are Gibson clones, but there are differences. You may or may not like the sound once it is setup properly, but the Deering you have is a quality instrument.
I would tighten the head a quarter turn evenly around, play it and then tighten again over a period of several days. You will not break the head or the banjo as long as the tension ring is square and evenly stressed. At some point you will find a tone you like, then continue to tighten until it chokes the sound out. You can reverse the process the proper number of quarter turns until you return to the sound you like.
I would definitely change the strings to the gages mentioned above. Elderly sells two GHS sets that are very nice and will go well with your banjo. I have been using the D'addario Octave mandolin strings on my main banjo recently and really like them. YMMV, however so you need to experiment with different gages and a new bridge.
Give your banjo a chance and if you can find someone to do it, get a professional setup done. Remember, the banjo as you got it has already stretched the head (so it is too loose) and the factory probably did not use the best bridge. The head and the tailpiece are probably OK for now. I have a new banjo that is a month old and I am still setting it up. right now it sounds pretty good, so I think I have it dialed in, but there is always room for improvement.
The most important piece of setup is playability. If the banjo is easy to play (i.e. setup well at the nut, bridgethe correct size, neck set properly, etc.) then it becomes a pleasure to play. The tone, as long as it is complex and the G string rings out) is not as important since you can change it significantly by changing the head tension, head, strings, tailpiece setting, tailpiece, and picks in that order.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
banjobabe,
Maybe I'll give those strings a try out - couldn't hurt and might be fun. Were you using these before you were using the Deering? If so, what kind of banjo was it?
Although on the banjo I use most at the moment I've installed a calfskin (real skins sound GREAT, BTW, but are really temperamental), I really think the Renaissance heads are where it's at as far as synthetic heads go. Do think about giving one a try.
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by Upsetter
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
Thanks for responding, Mike. You know your instruments. My vintage banjo, the Favilla Bros (not well-known but it's a great instrument), sounded better once I messed around with it. Tightening the head was self-explanatory, however on this Deering, I can't figure out how to tighten it. What's the trick?
Right now the G and D strings buzz, which shouldn't happen on a new instrument.
I may end up changing the head, and then I'll be taking it apart and figuring out stuff. Also, the nut seems high. I want to file it down, as well as some touch up on the bridge, but it's brand new and I'm hesitating to make my usual toying around marks.
And yes, Upsetter, I did have those strings on my other banjo. I tried the GHS Celtic Tenor strings, but I don't like the heavy gauges or the plunky/tinny sound. I've used both D'Addario and Augustine 4th and 5th classical guitar strings on the banjo. It is one strand and you just make a figure of eight knot on one end to hold it. See http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Knots_gallery.htm
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by banjobabe
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
I just took off the resonator...so I figured out where to tighten the head. Guess I was just a little hesitant to touch anything! I also found the manual online.
# Posted on October 21st 2007 by banjobabe
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
where can you get a banjo set up like mentioned above? i have a richmond tenor that i bought for 400 quid. its nothing special but i reckon it might sound a bit sweeter if i get it tweaked.
cheers
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by darraghchula
Re: Deering Boston Tenor Banjo Short Scale
sorry im based in dublin....forgot to mention that
# Posted on October 30th 2007 by darraghchula