The Session >> Discussions >> Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Comments
Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Looks like I opened a never ending debate on Low D's last week and a few of the lads got carried away and suggested the Low D players and lovers are just frustrated never will be Flute Players................time to get the boxing gloves off lads and lassies, especially those who play both with pride and joy as I do.
Is the Gob Stopping fipple a clumsy replacement for an eloquent embouchure? Or are some of us just toffee-nosed?
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
A whistle doesn't sound like a flute. A flute doesn't sound like a whistle. Nor does anyone want them to sound like each other.
I play mandolin. I also play whistle (and fiddle, after a fashion). I own a flute. I can get a tune out of it, once through, on a good day - but I wouldn't say I play the flute. If I spent more time with it, perhaps I could learn to be a flute player (although probably not a very good one). So, you could call me lazy. But you could also call me lazy because I haven't taken the time to learn to water-ski or make meringues.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
"Nor does anyone want them to sound like each other."
I just realised, that's a sweeping generalisation. But lots of people play both low whistle and flute, and make the most of the differences between them.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I don't think they sound the same at all. I'm thinking of getting a low whistle just for slow airs (should I ever learn how to play them) because they just sound right on a low whistle.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I said I prefer flute to low whistle. I prefer the sound of and what can be done with a flute wrt low whistle. Not once did I suggest "the Low D players and lovers are just frustrated never will be Flute Players" Nor do I remember anyone else expressing that prejudice. Nor do I remember Jeremy laying down a moratorium on expressing ones own opinion on this board. You are equally welcome to say you think wooden Boehm flutes have got zilch to do with the Irish tradition and have no place in it, but I would disagree with *you.*
I'm glad you play with pride and joy, and if you're ever in London, make sure you drop down to our session, where you'll be made very welcome.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
The thread seemed to be cruising by unnoticed until a particular response by Mr. MacKay. A rather brief one. I question whether said post was a welcoming gesture. If so I missed that part.
Once again ~ which flute do you recommend to someone inquiring about a Low D fippled flute?
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
1) You are absolutely right the question is not about a flute but a Low D.
2)Do you think Jeremy has imposed a "moratorium on expressing ones' opinion? He has not.
Are you suggesting someone on either of these two threads is petitioning for a ban on personal opinion.
3)Do you assume if someone disagrees with you, especially strongly, that it is equal to suppression of your viewpoint?
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
KML you seem to be taking it all very personally, never did I suggest YOU said it, read some of the last entries on Low D's thread and you'll see what I'm getting at.
As for the invite, not sure if I could play with someone who looks at little insects and the like all day .....LOL, but I suppose the Irish in me never turns down a challenge.
When in Spain let me know, I'll show you what the wine fly's really like ;)
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
No I'm not taking your remark or your thread personally, enigma. Honest. I'm mildly amused at all the fuss actually. Only inasmuch as that I was the one who for better or for worse changed the tack of your low whistle thread, so I thought I ought to clarify what I said here.
Now, as for the muse:
>"3)Do you assume if someone disagrees with you, especially strongly, that it is equal to suppression of your viewpoint?"
I genuinely do not know what you are talking about. Please tell me, give me the example to which you refer, so that I might respond appropriately.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Not that I understand what this thread is about but ~
I have a friend who plays an Overton Low D. He is as good a musician as I know. He wanted to progress to a flute & so he bought one. He tried very hard to develop his embochoure but it was never to his satisfaction. I would not consider him lazy. He continues to play Low D & he makes it fly like a bird. He may actually work harder on whistle knowing he was unable to make his flute sound as beautiful.
"Why bother?" Because he is a damn good Irish player & I do not fault him for his instrument.
No offense Daniel but we do have differences.
Cheers!
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel why do people always make statements like,
"when did Jeremy lay down a moratorium on expressing ones own opinion on this board?"
. . . if it is not to say disagreement is equal to suppression of your viewpoint.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I am one of those who feel Irish music is so beautiful because of the wooden flute. In some ways it is unique. Other genres have flute, but Irish music really features it. That is not to downplay the significance of uilleann pipes.
The reality is that not ever Irish musician will master the wooden flute. I would encourage all Irish players to make an attempt to play pennywhistle. You might be suprised. I have a friend who has played Irish fiddle all her life & she says playing whistle gave her a new appreciation for Irish music.
They are all different ~ high whistle, Low D, Flute, Pipes.
Hopefully that is part of the richness of traditional music.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Enigma, this is a reply to your last post on the other thread (which is really the start of this one)
The main difference between the low whistle and the flute is that the low whislte has virtually no dynamic range. If you think it has, you will be playing the thing out of tune. What you absolutly cannot do with a low whistle is bong it hard on the bottom notes and softly tickle it on the top ones.
Anyway, I'm a fiddle player really, I merely dabble on my low whistles mostly as an aid to getting to grips with how the music goes on the whistle, flute and pipes. I like to transfer pipe and flute things to the fiddle. I virtually never practice any more (day job, young kids etc) just play the fiddle down the pub. Yes, I'd rather play the flute, but I don't have the time or the money.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I can't figure out a flute embochure (or spell the bl**dy word) to save my life. People have asked me if I've ever considered picking up flute and, no, have tried and it is just a mess I haven't time to sort out.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
My C is the best whistle. It's just made better. A genuine 22 year old Overton overton. Though my D Overton overton is a cracker also, and often I feel like giving it away to someone who can play it. It's hard to play, you really have to fight it, but in the hands of someone who can it's a cracker.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I had a gut feeling you would say the C.
As for the D, it sounds like you might be coming into a new Low D anyway.
Just be sure the Overton ends up in some good hands if you do pass it along.
Cheers!
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Paddy Keenan plays a low D...he must be a lazy bugger...
In all seriousness, embouchure issues aside, the flute is about the most unergonomic instrument ever devised unless you have the physical dementions of a smurf. I played flute for years, had a great embouchure, but playing the flute for more than 10 minutes unless I was just sitting around at home tootling caused all sorts of physical discomfort, plus I was having problems with TMJ.
I think you'll find that some just find the flute too uncomfortable to bother with...
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Me, I play flute. I find the low whistle too much bother to play on a regular basis. Not the finger spacing, that's no problem. It's the fact that they all seem to take way more breath than flutes, and you get much less sound for your trouble. I'm too lazy to play low whistle very often.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Bernard Overton invented the low whistle for pipers, and almost invariably it's pipers who make the best low whistle players. Finbar Fury (he was the first), Paddy Keenan, Davy Spillane etc. I think this has to do with pipers being used to an instrument with no dynamics. I can agree with seisflutes, from a flute players point of view, I can imagine that playing the low whistle would be really annoying.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I see no reason for a competent flute player to play the low whistle other than:
1. Ergonomic/RSI problems with the flute position.
2. No suitable flute available in the approprate key.
3. Lips are tired (it happens!).
All of the above are however good reasons.
A good flute player can make their flute produce the same quality of sound as a low whistle (which is different from low whistle to low whistle anyway...). Or at least, they should be able to. In fact, they should be able to get an even more haunting sound out of their flutes if they try. However a flexible embouchure capable of such changes in sound quality takes a long time to develop (and isn't always in vogue in the ITM scene?) and I can understand people in the meantime wanting the easy way to the low whistle tone.
Also, I am absolutely in favour of people using the whistles to achieve an understanding of the music from a new perspecitve and I can understand a fiddle player not wanting to spend five plus years just learning how to get a good sound out of the flute. I think the whistles make an excellent second instrument for all players of traditional music. However if flute is your main instrument, as it is mine, then I still think I'd rather play my flute than a low D whistle, though I'd happily play the whistle if I didn't have a flute handy in the appropriate key.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I recently purchased a tony dixon low d whistle.. love the sound of it, but it definitely has a different sound to my flute.. actually its a flute/whistle combi but when played as a flute its way too shrill. anywho, the low d sound is lovely, esp for jigs and hornpipes. the reason i would pick my martin doyle flute over it though is it's less painful! After playing the low d for a few days I had pains up my left arm right up to my neck - any tips??
I just broke my beads.. dang.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Several people above hit the nail on the head. The human lips can vary the flute embouchure so as to produce very loud low notes, very sweet high notes, vary the volume anywhere in the range at will, and produce a wide variety of tone colours. The whistle's fipple is fixed and will always represent a compromise. The best low D whistles are weaker than a flute in the low range and harsher than a flute at the top of the range. To approach the volume of a flute the low D whistle needs to have considerably more air travelling through it.
In my 30 years of playing Irish flute I always looked down my nose at whistle players, the "lazy buggers". Why didn't these people learn how to play a "real" instrument? It's ironic that I would think that way, because the guy I learned Irish music from in the late 1970's played an early Overton low D as his primary instrument (he also played flute but preferred the whistle). He had a wonderful style that had a lot of the uilleann pipes in it. I still believe that a low D whistle is capable of playing in a more pipe-like way than the flute.
Anyhow, I now find myself no longer able to play flute and can only play the flute's "poor relation", the low D whistle, so I've had to undergo an attitude adjustment. Maybe those whistle players aren't so lazy after all...
And I agree that oftentimes the best low whistle players are pipers.
What I find interesting is how, when I still played flute, is how differently I would play the same tune on flute, low D whistle, and high D whistle. I didn't tongue at all on the flute and did a lot of diaphragm stuff. On the high whistle I tongued a lot. The low D whistle was in between, plus I tend to do more piping-style stuff on it.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Interesting topic. I always considered flute and whistle to be different instruments. Are fute players just lazy pipers then? Also, are mandolin players just lazy zouk players? etc
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Well, if fLute players are just lazy pipers, it would seem to me that it is implied that the pipes would be more physically demanding than the flute. That's why I questioned your premise.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I'm just saying that IMO whistle and flute are different instruments. To say whistle players are lazy flute players is as daft as saying flute players are lazy pipers. Flute players prefer flute tone to whistles. Pipers prefer pipe tone to flute (generalization, I know) The bagpipe is the worlds most popular folk wind instrument and some pipes are _much_ more phisically demanding than a flute. However, to me, that doesn't make the flute any less than the great intsrument it is. And I also think the whistle deserves the same respect.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Anyone who says the low whistle is the instrument of someone too lazy to play flute has never played the low whistle. Yes it has limitations, and its own charms. But it is NOT easy to play. I have dabbled with whistles, flutes and fifes over the years, and finally settled on the old standard soprano D whistle. Now if you want to say that is the easiest instrument to play, I would have to agree, and plead guilty to choosing the easy path.
But even the easiest of instruments to play can be difficult to master, and it is really mastery that we should all be aspiring to!
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
KML, the flute is less physically demanding than the pipes by far, however, at least for myself, the pipes are more comfortable from an ergonomic standpoint. My arms are at my side rather than lifted and in weird positions to keep my wrists from being put in a bad bend. Also, I can keep my head straight...having to turn the head, even slightly, as I have to do with the flute leads to a lot of problems after long term use believe it or not. Physically yes, the pipes are more work...sometimes I've been sweating after a good playing session. A flat set is less strenuous than a concert pitch set however. Everyone's mileage varies, many people have ergonomic problems with pipes and not with flutes...
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I would like to point out that the whistle and the flute are played differently with respect to pressure. The flute needs greater pressure in the low octave, and less in the upper octave. The whistle needs are just the opposite. My flute teacher reminded me that if I concentrated on playing whistle that my flute playing would suffer, whether he meant lack of practice time or inverting the pressure, or probably both, I'm not so sure. But he was right.
I have stopped playing the flute, except to occasionally test whether I can still play it. I can't.
Phil
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Thanks for the info meemtp. I stand corrected. And that's one of the great things about this board is you find out these little things... by almost trial and error....mostly error in my case.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Crack Pot I don't know what you hear when you listen, but to sugest a flute can be sounded like a Low D clearly is not possible from my perspective, the timbers are so different, unless of course a Harp can sound like a Piano or a Keyboard like a Piano ....if you think its possible clearly your apreciation of the sounds are very different to mine.
AlBrown I totally agree...the aspiration of perfection and hence the probable enjoyment of the ears that listen are all that really matter as far as I'm concerned.
Another factor never mentioned is the dress code, not quite the same a young lass in a Nigh Nurse uniform playing the pipes as a full military dress Scots Guard.........LOL I know which I'd choose )
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
For someone who has made just 18 posts on this site, you don't mince your words do you?
Not that I personally could give a monkeys for such arrogance, but it certainly has dimmed my view of low whistle players. If we ever come up with some therapy for Alzheimer's disease through our work with Drosophila, I wonder if in future you would be so disparaging to workers in that field. Still, it takes all sorts I suppose.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Several here have said that flute and whistle are different instruments, to which I would submit that they are more alike than different. However, I tend to think of the fipple as an "artificial pucker," which is not to disparage whistle - it just is what it is. As a result, whistle has limitations the flute does not have, but the opposite is not true.
I think that pipers do better on the low whistle because you really need to use a piper's grip to finger the thing.
In terms of my own preference for flute, I must confess that the variety of tonal color one can get from a whistle is just too limited, and the texture of the tone is less appealing.
Now, does any of the foregoing imply that whistle players are lazy? Not if he or she is good.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I agree with bogman, when he says the flute and whistle are 2 different instruments. Being both a flute and whistle player, I have to say that I find the major similarity in playing these 2 instruments is the identical fingering, and some of the fingering techniques, such as rolls and cuts, are executed in a similar way. On the flute, you can really bang on those low notes, and get into a real rythm with a tune in a way that you can't on the whistle, simply because--they're different instruments, with different sounds. You get into great rythm on the whistle too--it's just whistle rythm, which has a different feel altogether. And the more breath and diaphragm support that the flute requires means you phrase things differently than on a whistle, where one breath takes you a long way.
With that--I think whistlers, low or high, get labelled as 'lazy' because the high whistle is one of the simplest instruments to pick up and play, while one of the hardest to really play well.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I agree with the reasons people put out that pipers are better on low whistle. Personally, I don't find the low whistle much of a turn-on to play, I much prefer the flute (alas as I said earlier, it's not a good physical/ergonomic match for me). I never really used to be able to play the low whistle well, but as my piping took off, I found that it came a lot easier and actually sounded kind of cool...
They're similiar not just because of the hand position etc., but I think they sound good played in a "piping style" if that makes any sense...ie tightly with a hint (or more) of separations between notes, but not as staccato as some piping.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
To meemtp - have you ever tried one of the end blown flute variants? There are end blown headjoint for e.g. simple system flutes with which one plays the flute vertically. I believe there are also bent one with a right angle in the Boehm world for the same purpose. You might need some kind of right hand thumbsupport as in a clarinet though? I don't know who makes these nowadays, but I have seen some on ebay from time too time.
To Enigma; I didn't want to get into a personal disagreement here, but maybe it depends what flute players one listens to and what they are playing. You are of course right, that the flute and the low whistle will not sound the same - the flute will manage to produce the same sound quality with the option of varying the dynamics, and can support loud low notes and quiet high notes and it would be a foolish flute player who did not use this advantage when playing e.g. slow airs. It doesn't change the fact that a flute can be played with the tonal colour of a low whistle if you really want to and have practised long enough to be able to vary your tone colour at will.
I think it is not a case of my appreciation of the sounds being different (and lots of low whistles sound different to each other anyway.), rather that it takes a lot of time to learn to be able to do so on the flute, and once you've learnt that (and everything else that you learn on the way...), why wouldn't you use the full range of options available to you when playing?
I do not really expect that people wanting a second instrument would want to invest that time - no one seems to think that e.g. Fiddle is an instrument that you can pick up and have fun playing along with. Whistle is however seen in that way by many people and does in fact serve that purpose admirably. Mastering the whistle, like mastering ANY instrument takes a long time, lots of hard work and not everyone ever achieves it no matter how long they try.
So, I approve of whistle players who do not want to take the time to learn flute - it is a valid reason to play whistle and their role in the music is valid and worthy of respect. I also have oodles of respect for those few who have really mastered their instrument. For example, what Mary Bergin can get out of a simple metal tube with a few holes and a fipple is simply amazing.
As for the problem with too many learners playing whistle; at least the flute has the advantage that a raw learner is usually pretty quiet, unlike a raw high whistle player...
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Good post that Chris, and I think I've changed my mind on something I've promised myself. I've said for a few years now that I would learn the pipes when my kids have grown up. I'm sesiously coming round to promising myself that I'll learn the flute instead.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
My experience is similar to Meemtp. I find the flute physically to difficult to play for three reasons 1) cramping in my hands 2) twisting my head exacerbates the osteoarthritis in my neck and 3) I get a knot in my shoulder. None of these things happens to me on uilleann pipes, Highland pipes, or whistle. I love the flute in Irish music but I've had to sell off my flutes and concentrate on whistle and pipes.
About the differences between low whistle and flute, when I was trying out three different low whistles I recorded myself to hear what they objectively sounded like. Later I accidently played the middle of one of the recordings (on which I was playing the 2nd part of a reel in the 2nd register) and for a moment I thought it was a recording of some fluteplayer. Then my ear clicked and I realised it was myself on low whistle.
There's a band here called Molly's Revenge and their piper/whistle player David Brewer sounds remarkably flutelike on his Copeland low D. When walking around a festival when they were onstage, I've more than once mistaken his playing for a recording of Matt Molloy or somebody, until I listened more closely.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
With a wedge of compression (an electronic way of flattening out the dynamics) and good microphone technique (like carefully moving awaw from the mike when you shrill out the top register), yes, you can get a low whistle to sound more like a flute.
So what you are confusing with the whistle and the flute is only on a recording or a big gig PA sound. If Matt Molloy was playing in your front room, you'd not get confused in a million years.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
CrackPot, I wasn't looking to "disagree" in the sense of bad vibes just a healthy exchange of opinions (debating?).
I liked your point on the learners- LOL but that makes it VERY frustrating for the would be flute player, although I don't remember NOT getting a sound, just a very erratic wispy sound when I started, I’m still trying to get that erOtic wispy sound ………….
As far as the Whistle v Flute debate is concerned I still believe each have equal difficulty (although in different ways).
I am of course speaking about top end of excellence, not the average playing where perhaps the flute requires more to achieve apparent equal playing skills.
On the top end the whistle requires a lot of skill that most don’t have (It should be noted that I only rate 3 people that I’ve ever heard in this category) - food for thought !
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
PS you should all take a look at this guy on http://youtube.com/watch?v=SWpv7w5kNk4 he plays for 3,30 minutes WITHOUT stopping for air....................technique called circular breathing..........
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Some of us never come up for air.
In some ways TheSession is a lot like circular breathing.
Enigma; hatao is a member here. He has previously posted YouTube clips. Check out his recent submissions to the forum.
Cheers!
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Chris, I have heard of the endblown flute variants. However, IMHO, you still won't get the tonal manipulation that you get from a transverse flute, different mechanism. But, if I ever come across one of these beasts, I'll have to try it just to see...
As far as the angles Boehm headjoints, I much prefer the wooden flute to metal. I don't believe anyone makes such a thing for simple-system flutes. Plus, and yes this is a silly reason, the esthetics don't do it for me either!
It's not much of a biggie actually, I prefer the pipes these days. Even my fiddle doesn't get much use...anyone want to buy it?, it's really nice
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I'm in the process of making what in effect is an endblown Irish flute. I've copied the embouchure from the Bolivian "quenacho" or "kena-kena", which is also in D, and has similar fingerholes except that it also has a thumbhole. So far, I've been able to cut embouchures that give me a good volume and allow some room for tonal manipulation. My purpose is to make something that I can play in held in front like a whistle but has some of the tonal advantages of a flute.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
There seem to be two variants, one like a Quena which is an open tube sealed by the players chin and the other which is like a T-Junction on the end of a flute and a full "flute" embouchure hole built onto the crosspiece of the T. I wish I could find a link for one of these...
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I've seen two vertical headjoints for Boehm flutes, one is like a normal headjoint but with a curve built into it (quite expensive), the other the "T" that Crackpot mentions. The "T" headjoint was like the section of the headjoint that bears the emboucure plate was sawn off and soldered perpendicularly onto the end of a normal straight headjoint. These were being sold at the NAMM show, but I didn't get the company's literature and Googling has not turned it up.
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I like the sound of the LOW D whistle. I also played flute. I do not see what the big deal is about learning how to blow on a flute anyway. I was 13 when I figured out how to do it by watching a pretty 19 yo girl play flute. Very nice way to learn. I can still see her in my mind to this very day decades later.
Now i have trouble holding my hands in the standard flute position so I am grateful for the Low whistle. I have considered making a chromatic whistle.
Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Looks like I opened a never ending debate on Low D's last week and a few of the lads got carried away and suggested the Low D players and lovers are just frustrated never will be Flute Players................time to get the boxing gloves off lads and lassies, especially those who play both with pride and joy as I do.
Is the Gob Stopping fipple a clumsy replacement for an eloquent embouchure? Or are some of us just toffee-nosed?
Slán
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Enigma
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
A whistle doesn't sound like a flute. A flute doesn't sound like a whistle. Nor does anyone want them to sound like each other.
I play mandolin. I also play whistle (and fiddle, after a fashion). I own a flute. I can get a tune out of it, once through, on a good day - but I wouldn't say I play the flute. If I spent more time with it, perhaps I could learn to be a flute player (although probably not a very good one). So, you could call me lazy. But you could also call me lazy because I haven't taken the time to learn to water-ski or make meringues.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by granama
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
"Nor does anyone want them to sound like each other."
I just realised, that's a sweeping generalisation. But lots of people play both low whistle and flute, and make the most of the differences between them.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by granama
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I don't think they sound the same at all. I'm thinking of getting a low whistle just for slow airs (should I ever learn how to play them) because they just sound right on a low whistle.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I said I prefer flute to low whistle. I prefer the sound of and what can be done with a flute wrt low whistle. Not once did I suggest "the Low D players and lovers are just frustrated never will be Flute Players" Nor do I remember anyone else expressing that prejudice. Nor do I remember Jeremy laying down a moratorium on expressing ones own opinion on this board. You are equally welcome to say you think wooden Boehm flutes have got zilch to do with the Irish tradition and have no place in it, but I would disagree with *you.*
I'm glad you play with pride and joy, and if you're ever in London, make sure you drop down to our session, where you'll be made very welcome.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
The thread seemed to be cruising by unnoticed until a particular response by Mr. MacKay. A rather brief one. I question whether said post was a welcoming gesture. If so I missed that part.
Once again ~ which flute do you recommend to someone inquiring about a Low D fippled flute?
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
None - cos they want a low whistle.
Once again ~ when did Jeremy lay down a moratorium on expressing ones own opinion on this board?
I notice a few other members subsequently assented to my observation.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
1) You are absolutely right the question is not about a flute but a Low D.
2)Do you think Jeremy has imposed a "moratorium on expressing ones' opinion? He has not.
Are you suggesting someone on either of these two threads is petitioning for a ban on personal opinion.
3)Do you assume if someone disagrees with you, especially strongly, that it is equal to suppression of your viewpoint?
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
KML you seem to be taking it all very personally, never did I suggest YOU said it, read some of the last entries on Low D's thread and you'll see what I'm getting at.
As for the invite, not sure if I could play with someone who looks at little insects and the like all day .....LOL, but I suppose the Irish in me never turns down a challenge.
When in Spain let me know, I'll show you what the wine fly's really like ;)
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Enigma
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
No I'm not taking your remark or your thread personally, enigma. Honest. I'm mildly amused at all the fuss actually. Only inasmuch as that I was the one who for better or for worse changed the tack of your low whistle thread, so I thought I ought to clarify what I said here.
Now, as for the muse:
>"3)Do you assume if someone disagrees with you, especially strongly, that it is equal to suppression of your viewpoint?"
I genuinely do not know what you are talking about. Please tell me, give me the example to which you refer, so that I might respond appropriately.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Not that I understand what this thread is about but ~
I have a friend who plays an Overton Low D. He is as good a musician as I know. He wanted to progress to a flute & so he bought one. He tried very hard to develop his embochoure but it was never to his satisfaction. I would not consider him lazy. He continues to play Low D & he makes it fly like a bird. He may actually work harder on whistle knowing he was unable to make his flute sound as beautiful.
"Why bother?" Because he is a damn good Irish player & I do not fault him for his instrument.
No offense Daniel but we do have differences.
Cheers!
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel why do people always make statements like,
"when did Jeremy lay down a moratorium on expressing ones own opinion on this board?"
. . . if it is not to say disagreement is equal to suppression of your viewpoint.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I enjoy flute (homemade PVC) and low whistle (Howard) equally, and I switch on and off during our session.
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Oh right. So you ARE taking offence by proxy.
next please?
# Posted on October 15th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I love my whistle and have never even bother to try play flute.
The answer to that questions is purely a matter of choice.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Lollypoll
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
vice versa. vive la diference. QED.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I am one of those who feel Irish music is so beautiful because of the wooden flute. In some ways it is unique. Other genres have flute, but Irish music really features it. That is not to downplay the significance of uilleann pipes.
The reality is that not ever Irish musician will master the wooden flute. I would encourage all Irish players to make an attempt to play pennywhistle. You might be suprised. I have a friend who has played Irish fiddle all her life & she says playing whistle gave her a new appreciation for Irish music.
They are all different ~ high whistle, Low D, Flute, Pipes.
Hopefully that is part of the richness of traditional music.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Enigma, this is a reply to your last post on the other thread (which is really the start of this one)
The main difference between the low whistle and the flute is that the low whislte has virtually no dynamic range. If you think it has, you will be playing the thing out of tune. What you absolutly cannot do with a low whistle is bong it hard on the bottom notes and softly tickle it on the top ones.
Anyway, I'm a fiddle player really, I merely dabble on my low whistles mostly as an aid to getting to grips with how the music goes on the whistle, flute and pipes. I like to transfer pipe and flute things to the fiddle. I virtually never practice any more (day job, young kids etc) just play the fiddle down the pub. Yes, I'd rather play the flute, but I don't have the time or the money.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Michael among your low whistles do you have a preference?
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I can't figure out a flute embochure (or spell the bl**dy word) to save my life. People have asked me if I've ever considered picking up flute and, no, have tried and it is just a mess I haven't time to sort out.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
My C is the best whistle. It's just made better. A genuine 22 year old Overton overton. Though my D Overton overton is a cracker also, and often I feel like giving it away to someone who can play it. It's hard to play, you really have to fight it, but in the hands of someone who can it's a cracker.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I had a gut feeling you would say the C.
As for the D, it sounds like you might be coming into a new Low D anyway.
Just be sure the Overton ends up in some good hands if you do pass it along.
Cheers!
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Paddy Keenan plays a low D...he must be a lazy bugger...
In all seriousness, embouchure issues aside, the flute is about the most unergonomic instrument ever devised unless you have the physical dementions of a smurf. I played flute for years, had a great embouchure, but playing the flute for more than 10 minutes unless I was just sitting around at home tootling caused all sorts of physical discomfort, plus I was having problems with TMJ.
I think you'll find that some just find the flute too uncomfortable to bother with...
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by meemtp
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Me, I play flute. I find the low whistle too much bother to play on a regular basis. Not the finger spacing, that's no problem. It's the fact that they all seem to take way more breath than flutes, and you get much less sound for your trouble. I'm too lazy to play low whistle very often.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by seisflutes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Bernard Overton invented the low whistle for pipers, and almost invariably it's pipers who make the best low whistle players. Finbar Fury (he was the first), Paddy Keenan, Davy Spillane etc. I think this has to do with pipers being used to an instrument with no dynamics. I can agree with seisflutes, from a flute players point of view, I can imagine that playing the low whistle would be really annoying.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I see no reason for a competent flute player to play the low whistle other than:
1. Ergonomic/RSI problems with the flute position.
2. No suitable flute available in the approprate key.
3. Lips are tired (it happens!).
All of the above are however good reasons.
A good flute player can make their flute produce the same quality of sound as a low whistle (which is different from low whistle to low whistle anyway...). Or at least, they should be able to. In fact, they should be able to get an even more haunting sound out of their flutes if they try. However a flexible embouchure capable of such changes in sound quality takes a long time to develop (and isn't always in vogue in the ITM scene?) and I can understand people in the meantime wanting the easy way to the low whistle tone.
Also, I am absolutely in favour of people using the whistles to achieve an understanding of the music from a new perspecitve and I can understand a fiddle player not wanting to spend five plus years just learning how to get a good sound out of the flute. I think the whistles make an excellent second instrument for all players of traditional music. However if flute is your main instrument, as it is mine, then I still think I'd rather play my flute than a low D whistle, though I'd happily play the whistle if I didn't have a flute handy in the appropriate key.
Chris.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Crackpot
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I recently purchased a tony dixon low d whistle.. love the sound of it, but it definitely has a different sound to my flute.. actually its a flute/whistle combi but when played as a flute its way too shrill. anywho, the low d sound is lovely, esp for jigs and hornpipes. the reason i would pick my martin doyle flute over it though is it's less painful! After playing the low d for a few days I had pains up my left arm right up to my neck - any tips??
I just broke my beads.. dang.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by person
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Several people above hit the nail on the head. The human lips can vary the flute embouchure so as to produce very loud low notes, very sweet high notes, vary the volume anywhere in the range at will, and produce a wide variety of tone colours. The whistle's fipple is fixed and will always represent a compromise. The best low D whistles are weaker than a flute in the low range and harsher than a flute at the top of the range. To approach the volume of a flute the low D whistle needs to have considerably more air travelling through it.
In my 30 years of playing Irish flute I always looked down my nose at whistle players, the "lazy buggers". Why didn't these people learn how to play a "real" instrument? It's ironic that I would think that way, because the guy I learned Irish music from in the late 1970's played an early Overton low D as his primary instrument (he also played flute but preferred the whistle). He had a wonderful style that had a lot of the uilleann pipes in it. I still believe that a low D whistle is capable of playing in a more pipe-like way than the flute.
Anyhow, I now find myself no longer able to play flute and can only play the flute's "poor relation", the low D whistle, so I've had to undergo an attitude adjustment. Maybe those whistle players aren't so lazy after all...
And I agree that oftentimes the best low whistle players are pipers.
What I find interesting is how, when I still played flute, is how differently I would play the same tune on flute, low D whistle, and high D whistle. I didn't tongue at all on the flute and did a lot of diaphragm stuff. On the high whistle I tongued a lot. The low D whistle was in between, plus I tend to do more piping-style stuff on it.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Interesting topic. I always considered flute and whistle to be different instruments. Are fute players just lazy pipers then? Also, are mandolin players just lazy zouk players? etc
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by bogman
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Eh? I'd've thought the flute is more physically demanding than the pipes, since you have a bag to help you blow the air into the pipes.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Who said anything about more demanding?
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by bogman
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
YES
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by szifty
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Well, if fLute players are just lazy pipers, it would seem to me that it is implied that the pipes would be more physically demanding than the flute. That's why I questioned your premise.
ermm...is that ok?
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I'm just saying that IMO whistle and flute are different instruments. To say whistle players are lazy flute players is as daft as saying flute players are lazy pipers. Flute players prefer flute tone to whistles. Pipers prefer pipe tone to flute (generalization, I know) The bagpipe is the worlds most popular folk wind instrument and some pipes are _much_ more phisically demanding than a flute. However, to me, that doesn't make the flute any less than the great intsrument it is. And I also think the whistle deserves the same respect.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by bogman
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Anyone who says the low whistle is the instrument of someone too lazy to play flute has never played the low whistle. Yes it has limitations, and its own charms. But it is NOT easy to play. I have dabbled with whistles, flutes and fifes over the years, and finally settled on the old standard soprano D whistle. Now if you want to say that is the easiest instrument to play, I would have to agree, and plead guilty to choosing the easy path.
But even the easiest of instruments to play can be difficult to master, and it is really mastery that we should all be aspiring to!
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
KML, the flute is less physically demanding than the pipes by far, however, at least for myself, the pipes are more comfortable from an ergonomic standpoint. My arms are at my side rather than lifted and in weird positions to keep my wrists from being put in a bad bend. Also, I can keep my head straight...having to turn the head, even slightly, as I have to do with the flute leads to a lot of problems after long term use believe it or not. Physically yes, the pipes are more work...sometimes I've been sweating after a good playing session. A flat set is less strenuous than a concert pitch set however. Everyone's mileage varies, many people have ergonomic problems with pipes and not with flutes...
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by meemtp
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I would like to point out that the whistle and the flute are played differently with respect to pressure. The flute needs greater pressure in the low octave, and less in the upper octave. The whistle needs are just the opposite. My flute teacher reminded me that if I concentrated on playing whistle that my flute playing would suffer, whether he meant lack of practice time or inverting the pressure, or probably both, I'm not so sure. But he was right.
I have stopped playing the flute, except to occasionally test whether I can still play it. I can't.
Phil
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by windybaer
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Thanks for the info meemtp. I stand corrected. And that's one of the great things about this board is you find out these little things... by almost trial and error....mostly error in my case.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Crack Pot I don't know what you hear when you listen, but to sugest a flute can be sounded like a Low D clearly is not possible from my perspective, the timbers are so different, unless of course a Harp can sound like a Piano or a Keyboard like a Piano ....if you think its possible clearly your apreciation of the sounds are very different to mine.
AlBrown I totally agree...the aspiration of perfection and hence the probable enjoyment of the ears that listen are all that really matter as far as I'm concerned.
Another factor never mentioned is the dress code, not quite the same a young lass in a Nigh Nurse uniform playing the pipes as a full military dress Scots Guard.........LOL I know which I'd choose
)
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Enigma
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
For someone who has made just 18 posts on this site, you don't mince your words do you?
Not that I personally could give a monkeys for such arrogance, but it certainly has dimmed my view of low whistle players. If we ever come up with some therapy for Alzheimer's disease through our work with Drosophila, I wonder if in future you would be so disparaging to workers in that field. Still, it takes all sorts I suppose.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Several here have said that flute and whistle are different instruments, to which I would submit that they are more alike than different. However, I tend to think of the fipple as an "artificial pucker," which is not to disparage whistle - it just is what it is. As a result, whistle has limitations the flute does not have, but the opposite is not true.
I think that pipers do better on the low whistle because you really need to use a piper's grip to finger the thing.
In terms of my own preference for flute, I must confess that the variety of tonal color one can get from a whistle is just too limited, and the texture of the tone is less appealing.
Now, does any of the foregoing imply that whistle players are lazy? Not if he or she is good.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by Ailin
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I agree with bogman, when he says the flute and whistle are 2 different instruments. Being both a flute and whistle player, I have to say that I find the major similarity in playing these 2 instruments is the identical fingering, and some of the fingering techniques, such as rolls and cuts, are executed in a similar way. On the flute, you can really bang on those low notes, and get into a real rythm with a tune in a way that you can't on the whistle, simply because--they're different instruments, with different sounds. You get into great rythm on the whistle too--it's just whistle rythm, which has a different feel altogether. And the more breath and diaphragm support that the flute requires means you phrase things differently than on a whistle, where one breath takes you a long way.
With that--I think whistlers, low or high, get labelled as 'lazy' because the high whistle is one of the simplest instruments to pick up and play, while one of the hardest to really play well.
# Posted on October 16th 2007 by mellow yellow
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I agree with the reasons people put out that pipers are better on low whistle. Personally, I don't find the low whistle much of a turn-on to play, I much prefer the flute (alas as I said earlier, it's not a good physical/ergonomic match for me). I never really used to be able to play the low whistle well, but as my piping took off, I found that it came a lot easier and actually sounded kind of cool...
They're similiar not just because of the hand position etc., but I think they sound good played in a "piping style" if that makes any sense...ie tightly with a hint (or more) of separations between notes, but not as staccato as some piping.
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by meemtp
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
To meemtp - have you ever tried one of the end blown flute variants? There are end blown headjoint for e.g. simple system flutes with which one plays the flute vertically. I believe there are also bent one with a right angle in the Boehm world for the same purpose. You might need some kind of right hand thumbsupport as in a clarinet though? I don't know who makes these nowadays, but I have seen some on ebay from time too time.
To Enigma; I didn't want to get into a personal disagreement here, but maybe it depends what flute players one listens to and what they are playing. You are of course right, that the flute and the low whistle will not sound the same - the flute will manage to produce the same sound quality with the option of varying the dynamics, and can support loud low notes and quiet high notes and it would be a foolish flute player who did not use this advantage when playing e.g. slow airs. It doesn't change the fact that a flute can be played with the tonal colour of a low whistle if you really want to and have practised long enough to be able to vary your tone colour at will.
I think it is not a case of my appreciation of the sounds being different (and lots of low whistles sound different to each other anyway.), rather that it takes a lot of time to learn to be able to do so on the flute, and once you've learnt that (and everything else that you learn on the way...), why wouldn't you use the full range of options available to you when playing?
I do not really expect that people wanting a second instrument would want to invest that time - no one seems to think that e.g. Fiddle is an instrument that you can pick up and have fun playing along with. Whistle is however seen in that way by many people and does in fact serve that purpose admirably. Mastering the whistle, like mastering ANY instrument takes a long time, lots of hard work and not everyone ever achieves it no matter how long they try.
So, I approve of whistle players who do not want to take the time to learn flute - it is a valid reason to play whistle and their role in the music is valid and worthy of respect. I also have oodles of respect for those few who have really mastered their instrument. For example, what Mary Bergin can get out of a simple metal tube with a few holes and a fipple is simply amazing.
As for the problem with too many learners playing whistle; at least the flute has the advantage that a raw learner is usually pretty quiet, unlike a raw high whistle player...
Chris.
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by Crackpot
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Good post that Chris, and I think I've changed my mind on something I've promised myself. I've said for a few years now that I would learn the pipes when my kids have grown up. I'm sesiously coming round to promising myself that I'll learn the flute instead.
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Then after that, the bodhrán, michael?
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
My experience is similar to Meemtp. I find the flute physically to difficult to play for three reasons 1) cramping in my hands 2) twisting my head exacerbates the osteoarthritis in my neck and 3) I get a knot in my shoulder. None of these things happens to me on uilleann pipes, Highland pipes, or whistle. I love the flute in Irish music but I've had to sell off my flutes and concentrate on whistle and pipes.
About the differences between low whistle and flute, when I was trying out three different low whistles I recorded myself to hear what they objectively sounded like. Later I accidently played the middle of one of the recordings (on which I was playing the 2nd part of a reel in the 2nd register) and for a moment I thought it was a recording of some fluteplayer. Then my ear clicked and I realised it was myself on low whistle.
There's a band here called Molly's Revenge and their piper/whistle player David Brewer sounds remarkably flutelike on his Copeland low D. When walking around a festival when they were onstage, I've more than once mistaken his playing for a recording of Matt Molloy or somebody, until I listened more closely.
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
With a wedge of compression (an electronic way of flattening out the dynamics) and good microphone technique (like carefully moving awaw from the mike when you shrill out the top register), yes, you can get a low whistle to sound more like a flute.
So what you are confusing with the whistle and the flute is only on a recording or a big gig PA sound. If Matt Molloy was playing in your front room, you'd not get confused in a million years.
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
CrackPot, I wasn't looking to "disagree" in the sense of bad vibes just a healthy exchange of opinions (debating?).
I liked your point on the learners- LOL but that makes it VERY frustrating for the would be flute player, although I don't remember NOT getting a sound, just a very erratic wispy sound when I started, I’m still trying to get that erOtic wispy sound ………….
As far as the Whistle v Flute debate is concerned I still believe each have equal difficulty (although in different ways).
I am of course speaking about top end of excellence, not the average playing where perhaps the flute requires more to achieve apparent equal playing skills.
On the top end the whistle requires a lot of skill that most don’t have (It should be noted that I only rate 3 people that I’ve ever heard in this category) - food for thought !
Slán
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by Enigma
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
PS you should all take a look at this guy on http://youtube.com/watch?v=SWpv7w5kNk4 he plays for 3,30 minutes WITHOUT stopping for air....................technique called circular breathing..........
Slán
# Posted on October 17th 2007 by Enigma
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Some of us never come up for air.
In some ways TheSession is a lot like circular breathing.
Enigma; hatao is a member here. He has previously posted YouTube clips. Check out his recent submissions to the forum.
Cheers!
# Posted on October 18th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
Chris, I have heard of the endblown flute variants. However, IMHO, you still won't get the tonal manipulation that you get from a transverse flute, different mechanism. But, if I ever come across one of these beasts, I'll have to try it just to see...
As far as the angles Boehm headjoints, I much prefer the wooden flute to metal. I don't believe anyone makes such a thing for simple-system flutes. Plus, and yes this is a silly reason, the esthetics don't do it for me either!
It's not much of a biggie actually, I prefer the pipes these days. Even my fiddle doesn't get much use...anyone want to buy it?, it's really nice
# Posted on October 19th 2007 by meemtp
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I'm in the process of making what in effect is an endblown Irish flute. I've copied the embouchure from the Bolivian "quenacho" or "kena-kena", which is also in D, and has similar fingerholes except that it also has a thumbhole. So far, I've been able to cut embouchures that give me a good volume and allow some room for tonal manipulation. My purpose is to make something that I can play in held in front like a whistle but has some of the tonal advantages of a flute.
# Posted on October 19th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
There seem to be two variants, one like a Quena which is an open tube sealed by the players chin and the other which is like a T-Junction on the end of a flute and a full "flute" embouchure hole built onto the crosspiece of the T. I wish I could find a link for one of these...
Chris.
# Posted on October 19th 2007 by Crackpot
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I've seen two vertical headjoints for Boehm flutes, one is like a normal headjoint but with a curve built into it (quite expensive), the other the "T" that Crackpot mentions. The "T" headjoint was like the section of the headjoint that bears the emboucure plate was sawn off and soldered perpendicularly onto the end of a normal straight headjoint. These were being sold at the NAMM show, but I didn't get the company's literature and Googling has not turned it up.
# Posted on October 22nd 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Low D vs Irish Trad. Flute - are we Whistlers Lazy Buggers ?
I like the sound of the LOW D whistle. I also played flute. I do not see what the big deal is about learning how to blow on a flute anyway. I was 13 when I figured out how to do it by watching a pretty 19 yo girl play flute. Very nice way to learn. I can still see her in my mind to this very day decades later.
Now i have trouble holding my hands in the standard flute position so I am grateful for the Low whistle. I have considered making a chromatic whistle.
# Posted on October 27th 2007 by solaris