You somehow learned to hit it with a tipper, maybe not to pronounce the "D" in the word, and I'm sure you read a lot about it on the bodhran discussion boards in the internets, which is probably also the place where you learned that you should "tune" your bodhran to D or G because "those'r the most common keys, you see". Right.
Your left hand sways back and forth on the back of the skin, but you make no tone.
Your tipper scrapes along in the front of the thing like a sailor on shore leave, swaying along the sides of the beat and occasionally making contact with the right beat.
And you tell me that you "enjoy my style" as if I have a "different but equal take" on bodhran playing than what you have.
You graciously offer to take turns with me during the night, because you read in a book somewhere that only one bodhran was supposed to play at a time.
But what you don't do is practice.
You don't sit at home, hour after hour, trying to learn tunes, to hone your technique, to perform the proper craniorectalectomy that one must undergo to truly become a bodhran player, not just a mere owner.
You don't sit in front of your third metronome (third because you've smashed the first two) working to get all of your beats right smack the hell on the beat, because then you can forget about the beat and think about the tune and more importantly the way the player is playing said tune.
You don't seek out the best guitar players, zouk players, and bodhran players, and work to figure out just what the hell they are doing on that Primrose Lasses set, or how exactly they're all doing that weird double down stroke on those jigs.
You don't do any of that, and you still come to sessions where someone who played the fiddle, banjo, flute or any of a dozen melody instruments with your level of experience wouldn't dare show anything but the front end of their recording device (bet you don't have one of those, either, do ya?) and offer to "take turns with ya, mate".
And I, and any of the other melody or backing players that are at all worth their salt, sit there, take it, and say none of this to you, and you keep showing up and not getting better.
I don't think I'm doing to take that anymore. It's for your own good, I promise.
More than one bodhran player at a session of any less than seight melody players is sh*te. Fact.
If there are two bodhran players, take turns.
And nobody asked how long it took you, or how much effort it took not to be God's gift. Enjoy, share, play your best. Contribute.
Plenty of melody players can play bodhran at least half decently - once you have the music and a sense of rhythm, all it takes it a basic technique to knock out a beat. Accept it.
Stop whinging. If it wasn't for melody players, mediocre or otherwise, you'd be fukced.
A good sheepdog and a good bodhran player have a lot in common, the bigger the mob the bigger the mess. Sessions are a learning experience for everyone and when you mix a bunch of musos of various backgrounds and set them on the same path of playing JUST THIS ONE TUNE the results are a technicolour yawn of mistakes, interpretations and other assorted stuff-ups such as unhelpful reeds, soggy bodhrans, squeeky fiddles, button clacky accordions. Add a couple of people who have not yet had explained to them the seventy thousand laws, rules bylaws and sub sections of "session etiquette" and are simply playing along cause they love the music and the people and it's a bloody wonder the tunes get out.
And a bloody wonder it is because they do get out and every now and again there is the blissful result of a tune played well.
TIME FOR A GROUP HUG KIDDIES, we are getting far too serious about this stuff,
Next session you go to, turn to the person on either side and offer some warmth, you will be rewarded!
Worse still, surely, are those who ONLY play the bodhran and still don't practise???
I'd have thought that the majority of melody players who take up the bodhran would understand the "rules" and tend to be a bit more sensitive in their use of the instrument.
Of course (Dirty Hell has a point here), they may not strive to be the ultimate player and be content with the basics while concentrating on their first instrument.
However, if you already play a melody instrument I can never understand why people bother to play the bodhran! I'm not denigrading the instrument here or bodhran players(At least ..not on this occasion ) but you'll get fiddlers, flute players and the like who'll "pick up the bodhran" to play along with a set of tunes they don't know well enough on their first instrument. The guitar is often used for this purpose too. Why don't they just "sit it out" or try to absorb the tunes for the next time?
I also notice this with singers too both in sessions and during live performances.
And yet if "musicians" take it in turns, some eejit asks "why do musicians sit out in the middle of a tune - do they think it sounds better once they start again?"
remember that one?
Life is also to short to only play one instrument.
"Life is also to short to only play one instrument"
I agree but the other instruments should be for a purpose, i.e specifically to suit the tune or set, a particular grouping of players etc rather than just a "fall back" because the melody player doesn't know a particular set of tunes.
We don't need rules, but let me put it this way. If you pick up the drum because you don't know the tune currently being played you are a very naughty boy or girl indeed.
I see you are a bodhran player, McKnowall, which probably explains why you don't like rules.
You say "Sessions are a learning experience for everyone".
This is true but the purpose of a session isn't necessarily a "training ground". As I've said often enough before, the structure and "raison d'etre" for sessions vary. Some have indeed been specifically set up for the benefit of beginners but, generally, they are just a group of "musical friends" getting together for a tune. The participants might be top notch players, well meaning amateurs, or a mixture of both.
While there's no reason why sessions shouldn't be welcoming, it's surely up to those visiting musicians whether beginners or not to respect the existing set up. Is it not?
Having said all that, I quite believe that the majority of us have broken these "unwritten rules" and fallen foul of session ettiquette in our time. Especially in our formative years.
We have learned over time what behaviour is expected of us...often the hard way.
Therefore, that's why most of us(In the real world, anyway) are usually much more tolerant than we claim to be on this board. Unless things get really out of hand, of course.
Speaking for myself (obviously), that was a rather nice "rave" from DH. It flowed along nicely, did not really becoem immersed in expletive, was of a piece, and managed to sound almost readonable at times.
I hope the honest venting did DH some good, and I suspect he thinks a bit less harshly of his felows than he expressed (note the qualifier at the end). Not all bad, and entertainment is what I come here for, that and information of course.
And I do agree (onmy my humble opinion) , there are too many people in the world who think that half-hearted whacking away on a fine insturment like the bodhran somehow is still making a contribution to a session. It is a grand drum, put some time and effort into it and play the thing right.
Practice all you want and whinge all you want. There are some sessions which don't allow bodhrans & others where guitars are frowned on. Or singers for that matter.
Yet others may be guitars only, singer only bodhran only or shakey eggs only. Then at least we know where they are, and not out at other sessions causing mischief. Where the hell's Ligg when we need him most?
Plenty of melody players can play bodhran at least half decently .....................rocky if your not playing the drum all the time it impossible to keep up.........................Its important to know the tunes and the musician playing them ....................and mcknowall how about all my rugby tips.....................
There are more fiddle players than bodhran players in Ireland about 6 is to1.......so lets say 10% of the fiddle players are bad and 50% of the bodhran players are bad...................lets say 600 fiddle players and 100 bodhran players...................thats 60 bad fiddle players and 50 bad bodhran players .......so theres more bad fiddle players than bodhran players.........fact
Sorry have emerged from my cyber cave to comment on this one... I feel for you Dirty Heel - it's frustrating. From a melody players perspective I play flute and fiddle and I don't pick up someone elses' bodhran and try and play...but I already get surround sound bodhran at the sessions!! Sometimes it's even out-of-phase...trippy, particularly when you're sandwiched between them!
But hey, I get your point about the non-practice part of sessions. We have people that are stuck in the tune rut (and I know I'm occassionally like that myself) and it can be sooo frustrating ; but I think that's where mcknowall's on the money..compassion and try and enjoy the vibe . But then again, there was no way in hell when I first started that I wouldn't turn up without a tape recorder/MD and a handful of FBI styled interrogations on tune names and origins.
I must add that the sess at Irish Murphys' Noosa on a Tuesday night is an excellent example of diaspora trad sess where love tolerance and brilliant tunes make for a great night.
A very good traditional fiddle player from Co Down who taught me a lot of what I know on the fiddle used to say that the best way to play a bodhran was with a penknife - with both blades open... Those musicians who have been sandwiched between two or three really bad bodhran players in a session will remember this phrase! This does not apply to the good players who have worked hard to become good players - who you have to listen to, to know that they are there but who do not take over the session or speed it up to the point where you want to give up! Paul Phillips from Downpatrick who very tragically died a few weeks ago was an example of one of the best players I ever played with and who anyone would have been pleased to have playing beside them.
It was a good rant, no doubt. Sometimes that's all you need, to get it out.
Dirty Hell, next time someone oblivious to their poor playing takes a bodhran turn that drives you nuts why not lean over and try to help with a big smile:
Thanks for the comments. I needed to come out of lurking to rant, for the most part. I rather enjoyed writing it myself, even if it was a bit of a whinge.
As to melody players who also play the bodhran, many to most of them are pretty good (but if they're not that good on the melody, then I think I fairly extrapolate). In the title of the post I was more thinking of the response I get walking into a new session by other bodhran owners.
Much of it stems from exactly what some of you have pointed out: that these sessions are almost like a cabal with a secret handshake, a hidden 300 page rulebook, and a penchant for upturned noses when someone clearly doesn't share our "dark mark".
What I struggle with is how and where to pass along the "hey, how do you practice?" or "here's a tip..." without sounding like the ass that I might indeed be bur don't want to be.
That said, I was at a sesh a few days ago where I met one of the aforementioned, and actually had a nice old time with him. turned out to be a very nice person who was open to a little gentle feedback.
What a tool. So arrogant that he complains of people who can't play his "instrument" as well as he can. And what "instrument" is it? It's a feckin bodhran. What a tool.
And ... the audacity to suggest it's down to people concentrating on another instrument, an instrument that actually plays the music no less. (I'd like to see him shout this to Donal Lunny)
And ... after he's sat for hours and hours with his frigin metronome.
And ... HE CAN DO A DOUBLE DOWN STROKE ON A JIG ... WHAT WAS THAT? SAY IT LOUDER, WSE'RE ALL IN SUCH AWE.
Dirtyheel - just chalk it up to a bad night at the pub and put it behind you. I have heard you play and you are as good as it gets and have the utmost respect for the tradition and all things related to "etiquette." But breaking into a new town can be a bit of a chore especially if those fragile musical ecosystems feel threatened by a new player. I have no doubt you will find a session to your liking soon enough.
Llig, must you build your soapbox so high when you pontificate? Haven't you ever had a frustrating night at the pub and needed to vent?
well said. nice reply! my cheek is stinging from 5,00 miles away. i always love reading your 20 cents on this board.
yeah, i know that the post can come off in the "I wish everyone were as good as me" vein. It wasn't intended that way, and I tried to qualify it as such, but obviously i wasn't as clear as i needed to be for some.
I'm nobody's gift to anything except maybe being an ass and speaking without thinking.
i could also see how it could be taken as being directed at people who play another instrument, especially with the title. didn't mean that either. in my experience, melody players who "also play" tend to be really really good.
I was aiming at the "other bodhran players" at a sesh...the ones most people are annoyed with.
and finally, I was just venting, and probably being an ass, and probably pompous, and probably bragging, and don't think I'm really that way in "real life". it's just the internets, and it's never a good way to really say what you mean.
bu it felt good to post that.
probably almost as good as your post felt to write!
Anytime a bodhran player takes the time to actually be good at what they're doing I think they're due for some venting leeway. All the melody players get on here and scream bloody murder about bad bodhran players, why shouldn't a good bodhran player do the same? Obviously, they find those lousy ones even more annoying than we do!
Donal Lunny shouldn't be allowed to play anything but a bodhran. His impersonation of a "whirling Dervish" on the zouk drowns out bodhran, pipes, accordion and probably bag pipes, and all out of time.
And Johnny J, there are no rules. That was invented recently by people not from the tradition. Go into a pub in N.Ireland and someone says "sorry, no bodhrans" well the likely outcome would be that in twenty minutes time the other players would be saying "sorry, no pub anymore".
Last Sunday we had one banjo, one piano accordion, who doesn't play tunes, four guitarists, and three bodhrans. People thought it was a wonderful nights entertainment, brought joy to their gray, mundane world. Is this a crime?
If you told me sorry no bodhran, you would be wearing your fiddle as a necklace.
And it is easy to understand why melody players lift a bodhran, they crave the limelight, the adulation from the punters, not afforded to mere melody players. The true bodhran player plays to enhance and embellish the sacred tradition, melody players do it to try to show off, usually with disasterous results.
I wish there were more "sessions" with the likes of one banjo, one piano accordion, who doesn't play tunes, four guitarists, and three bodhrans, where people thought it was a wonderful nights entertainment.
They are a draw away from us "show of" tune players.
Hey Dirt Heel, yes I do play bodhran too !
And yes you're right I should probably not play it out and about because I stopped practising the day I picked up the whistle (which I still don't play well)
But I would depend on someone like yourself to tell me that I was crap, in a nice way, if I was making a complete balls up of a set in a session. So don't hang back be assertive and the nice person you are and help a nice person like me to not make a complete ar$£ of themselves.
This has probably been said but ,If I got a pound for every melody player that told me they could play the bodhran and when I give them the chance to play !, They play for a few bars and realise that they are brutal or 2 they decline and say "Oh its been a while" wot a load of bull. I could play hurling one time but I won't say I can play know just in case I'm asked to tog out.................... oh ya I'd have about 563 pound but Im not counting
In West Cork they thought I was the best hurler they ever saw, in Roscarberry. How was I to know it was football territory.
And you are right about melody players and the bodhran. Most of them have no sense of timing, too busy listening to themselves, the self centred, jumped up..................
"Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
"Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
No, you don't.
You own one.
You somehow learned to hit it with a tipper, maybe not to pronounce the "D" in the word, and I'm sure you read a lot about it on the bodhran discussion boards in the internets, which is probably also the place where you learned that you should "tune" your bodhran to D or G because "those'r the most common keys, you see". Right.
Your left hand sways back and forth on the back of the skin, but you make no tone.
Your tipper scrapes along in the front of the thing like a sailor on shore leave, swaying along the sides of the beat and occasionally making contact with the right beat.
And you tell me that you "enjoy my style" as if I have a "different but equal take" on bodhran playing than what you have.
You graciously offer to take turns with me during the night, because you read in a book somewhere that only one bodhran was supposed to play at a time.
But what you don't do is practice.
You don't sit at home, hour after hour, trying to learn tunes, to hone your technique, to perform the proper craniorectalectomy that one must undergo to truly become a bodhran player, not just a mere owner.
You don't sit in front of your third metronome (third because you've smashed the first two) working to get all of your beats right smack the hell on the beat, because then you can forget about the beat and think about the tune and more importantly the way the player is playing said tune.
You don't seek out the best guitar players, zouk players, and bodhran players, and work to figure out just what the hell they are doing on that Primrose Lasses set, or how exactly they're all doing that weird double down stroke on those jigs.
You don't do any of that, and you still come to sessions where someone who played the fiddle, banjo, flute or any of a dozen melody instruments with your level of experience wouldn't dare show anything but the front end of their recording device (bet you don't have one of those, either, do ya?) and offer to "take turns with ya, mate".
And I, and any of the other melody or backing players that are at all worth their salt, sit there, take it, and say none of this to you, and you keep showing up and not getting better.
I don't think I'm doing to take that anymore. It's for your own good, I promise.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by dirtyheel
yeah, i had a bad session tonight. new town, new sesh, 3 melody players couldn't keep a damn rhythm between themselves.
and i'm not saying i'm god's gift to the bodhran. i'm not. I'm just sick of the broad acceptance of mediocrity.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by dirtyheel
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
More than one bodhran player at a session of any less than seight melody players is sh*te. Fact.
If there are two bodhran players, take turns.
And nobody asked how long it took you, or how much effort it took not to be God's gift. Enjoy, share, play your best. Contribute.
Plenty of melody players can play bodhran at least half decently - once you have the music and a sense of rhythm, all it takes it a basic technique to knock out a beat. Accept it.
Stop whinging. If it wasn't for melody players, mediocre or otherwise, you'd be fukced.
.... metronome?
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by RockyRoader
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
A good sheepdog and a good bodhran player have a lot in common, the bigger the mob the bigger the mess. Sessions are a learning experience for everyone and when you mix a bunch of musos of various backgrounds and set them on the same path of playing JUST THIS ONE TUNE the results are a technicolour yawn of mistakes, interpretations and other assorted stuff-ups such as unhelpful reeds, soggy bodhrans, squeeky fiddles, button clacky accordions. Add a couple of people who have not yet had explained to them the seventy thousand laws, rules bylaws and sub sections of "session etiquette" and are simply playing along cause they love the music and the people and it's a bloody wonder the tunes get out.
And a bloody wonder it is because they do get out and every now and again there is the blissful result of a tune played well.
TIME FOR A GROUP HUG KIDDIES, we are getting far too serious about this stuff,
Next session you go to, turn to the person on either side and offer some warmth, you will be rewarded!
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by mcknowall
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Offer the bodhran player some warmth? Y'mean a cigarette lighter?
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Worse still, surely, are those who ONLY play the bodhran and still don't practise???
I'd have thought that the majority of melody players who take up the bodhran would understand the "rules" and tend to be a bit more sensitive in their use of the instrument.
Of course (Dirty Hell has a point here), they may not strive to be the ultimate player and be content with the basics while concentrating on their first instrument.
However, if you already play a melody instrument I can never understand why people bother to play the bodhran! I'm not denigrading the instrument here or bodhran players(At least ..not on this occasion
) but you'll get fiddlers, flute players and the like who'll "pick up the bodhran" to play along with a set of tunes they don't know well enough on their first instrument. The guitar is often used for this purpose too. Why don't they just "sit it out" or try to absorb the tunes for the next time?
I also notice this with singers too both in sessions and during live performances.
"Satan finds work for idle hands to do!"
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
And yet if "musicians" take it in turns, some eejit asks "why do musicians sit out in the middle of a tune - do they think it sounds better once they start again?"
remember that one?
Life is also to short to only play one instrument.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
"Life is also to short to only play one instrument"
I agree but the other instruments should be for a purpose, i.e specifically to suit the tune or set, a particular grouping of players etc rather than just a "fall back" because the melody player doesn't know a particular set of tunes.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Make that 90,000 rules. Sheeeesh
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by mcknowall
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
We don't need rules, but let me put it this way. If you pick up the drum because you don't know the tune currently being played you are a very naughty boy or girl indeed.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
I see you are a bodhran player, McKnowall, which probably explains why you don't like rules.
You say "Sessions are a learning experience for everyone".
This is true but the purpose of a session isn't necessarily a "training ground". As I've said often enough before, the structure and "raison d'etre" for sessions vary. Some have indeed been specifically set up for the benefit of beginners but, generally, they are just a group of "musical friends" getting together for a tune. The participants might be top notch players, well meaning amateurs, or a mixture of both.
While there's no reason why sessions shouldn't be welcoming, it's surely up to those visiting musicians whether beginners or not to respect the existing set up. Is it not?
Having said all that, I quite believe that the majority of us have broken these "unwritten rules" and fallen foul of session ettiquette in our time. Especially in our formative years.
We have learned over time what behaviour is expected of us...often the hard way.
Therefore, that's why most of us(In the real world, anyway) are usually much more tolerant than we claim to be on this board. Unless things get really out of hand, of course.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Keep your thing in your hand Johny, you're going well.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by mcknowall
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
I'd still rather do that than play the bodhran.
At least, what you're suggesting I do is "harmless".
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Speaking for myself (obviously), that was a rather nice "rave" from DH. It flowed along nicely, did not really becoem immersed in expletive, was of a piece, and managed to sound almost readonable at times.
I hope the honest venting did DH some good, and I suspect he thinks a bit less harshly of his felows than he expressed (note the qualifier at the end). Not all bad, and entertainment is what I come here for, that and information of course.
And I do agree (onmy my humble opinion) , there are too many people in the world who think that half-hearted whacking away on a fine insturment like the bodhran somehow is still making a contribution to a session. It is a grand drum, put some time and effort into it and play the thing right.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Rook
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Pardon the typos. 'Twas a long night.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Rook
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Practice all you want and whinge all you want. There are some sessions which don't allow bodhrans & others where guitars are frowned on. Or singers for that matter.
Yet others may be guitars only, singer only bodhran only or shakey eggs only. Then at least we know where they are, and not out at other sessions causing mischief. Where the hell's Ligg when we need him most?
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Plenty of melody players can play bodhran at least half decently .....................rocky if your not playing the drum all the time it impossible to keep up.........................Its important to know the tunes and the musician playing them ....................and mcknowall how about all my rugby tips.....................
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
I would never dream of having two bodhrans at a session.
Three is a minimum.
Mind you we only have one melody player now, but the four guitarists make up for that.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Go Argentina!
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by mcknowall
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
There are more fiddle players than bodhran players in Ireland about 6 is to1.......so lets say 10% of the fiddle players are bad and 50% of the bodhran players are bad...................lets say 600 fiddle players and 100 bodhran players...................thats 60 bad fiddle players and 50 bad bodhran players .......so theres more bad fiddle players than bodhran players.........fact
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Sorry have emerged from my cyber cave to comment on this one... I feel for you Dirty Heel - it's frustrating. From a melody players perspective I play flute and fiddle and I don't pick up someone elses' bodhran and try and play...but I already get surround sound bodhran at the sessions!! Sometimes it's even out-of-phase...trippy, particularly when you're sandwiched between them!
But hey, I get your point about the non-practice part of sessions. We have people that are stuck in the tune rut (and I know I'm occassionally like that myself) and it can be sooo frustrating ; but I think that's where mcknowall's on the money..compassion and try and enjoy the vibe . But then again, there was no way in hell when I first started that I wouldn't turn up without a tape recorder/MD and a handful of FBI styled interrogations on tune names and origins.
I must add that the sess at Irish Murphys' Noosa on a Tuesday night is an excellent example of diaspora trad sess where love tolerance and brilliant tunes make for a great night.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by b2jay
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
just another fact or two s. africas pack will match the pumas and the french will fry the english
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
A very good traditional fiddle player from Co Down who taught me a lot of what I know on the fiddle used to say that the best way to play a bodhran was with a penknife - with both blades open... Those musicians who have been sandwiched between two or three really bad bodhran players in a session will remember this phrase! This does not apply to the good players who have worked hard to become good players - who you have to listen to, to know that they are there but who do not take over the session or speed it up to the point where you want to give up! Paul Phillips from Downpatrick who very tragically died a few weeks ago was an example of one of the best players I ever played with and who anyone would have been pleased to have playing beside them.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Ernie
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
It was a good rant, no doubt. Sometimes that's all you need, to get it out.
Dirty Hell, next time someone oblivious to their poor playing takes a bodhran turn that drives you nuts why not lean over and try to help with a big smile:
"I really like what you were trying to do there."
Or the ever popular:
"That'll sound great with some practice."
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Thanks for the comments. I needed to come out of lurking to rant, for the most part. I rather enjoyed writing it myself, even if it was a bit of a whinge.
As to melody players who also play the bodhran, many to most of them are pretty good (but if they're not that good on the melody, then I think I fairly extrapolate). In the title of the post I was more thinking of the response I get walking into a new session by other bodhran owners.
Much of it stems from exactly what some of you have pointed out: that these sessions are almost like a cabal with a secret handshake, a hidden 300 page rulebook, and a penchant for upturned noses when someone clearly doesn't share our "dark mark".
What I struggle with is how and where to pass along the "hey, how do you practice?" or "here's a tip..." without sounding like the ass that I might indeed be bur don't want to be.
That said, I was at a sesh a few days ago where I met one of the aforementioned, and actually had a nice old time with him. turned out to be a very nice person who was open to a little gentle feedback.
but they're not always like that.
maybe "We will know them by their shaky eggs?"
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by dirtyheel
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
"Practice?" Now there's a strange concept!
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
"I come from County Kerry, the land of eggs and bacon,
They're for eatin', not for shakin'.
You're rather sadly mistaken."
It's tough to walk that fine line, but look at it this way, you've got four options:
1. Be a total jerk: "Hey, you really suck at that, wow."
2. Be nice while being a partial jerk: "I really liked what you were TRYING to do there. When I do that I always..."
3. Be super Mr. Nice Guy Helper, which may or may not work depending on the person in question, as you've already noted.
4. Do nothing and suffer, and by extension, make everyone else suffer, even into the future as this offender goes on to torment others down the line.
Of course, if it's not your place to do any of this in the session in question that's another trick by itself.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
ooh, I'm a bit busy at the moment, but just you wait till I lash inti this one
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Remember Llig, just scroll down without reading any of it. And make sure you tell them you did that - winds them up no end....
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
go on the six inch club......................
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
I'm posting the oiginal statment (at the top) around the local bars in Washington DC. Well said
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by fiddler Winch
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
What a tool. So arrogant that he complains of people who can't play his "instrument" as well as he can. And what "instrument" is it? It's a feckin bodhran. What a tool.
And ... the audacity to suggest it's down to people concentrating on another instrument, an instrument that actually plays the music no less. (I'd like to see him shout this to Donal Lunny)
And ... after he's sat for hours and hours with his frigin metronome.
And ... HE CAN DO A DOUBLE DOWN STROKE ON A JIG ... WHAT WAS THAT? SAY IT LOUDER, WSE'RE ALL IN SUCH AWE.
what a tool
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
That was so worth the wait, I'm glad I checked back.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Dirtyheel - just chalk it up to a bad night at the pub and put it behind you. I have heard you play and you are as good as it gets and have the utmost respect for the tradition and all things related to "etiquette." But breaking into a new town can be a bit of a chore especially if those fragile musical ecosystems feel threatened by a new player. I have no doubt you will find a session to your liking soon enough.
Llig, must you build your soapbox so high when you pontificate? Haven't you ever had a frustrating night at the pub and needed to vent?
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Ahh, Llig
well said. nice reply! my cheek is stinging from 5,00 miles away. i always love reading your 20 cents on this board.
yeah, i know that the post can come off in the "I wish everyone were as good as me" vein. It wasn't intended that way, and I tried to qualify it as such, but obviously i wasn't as clear as i needed to be for some.
I'm nobody's gift to anything except maybe being an ass and speaking without thinking.
i could also see how it could be taken as being directed at people who play another instrument, especially with the title. didn't mean that either. in my experience, melody players who "also play" tend to be really really good.
I was aiming at the "other bodhran players" at a sesh...the ones most people are annoyed with.
and finally, I was just venting, and probably being an ass, and probably pompous, and probably bragging, and don't think I'm really that way in "real life". it's just the internets, and it's never a good way to really say what you mean.
bu it felt good to post that.
probably almost as good as your post felt to write!
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by dirtyheel
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Anytime a bodhran player takes the time to actually be good at what they're doing I think they're due for some venting leeway. All the melody players get on here and scream bloody murder about bad bodhran players, why shouldn't a good bodhran player do the same? Obviously, they find those lousy ones even more annoying than we do!
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Donal Lunny shouldn't be allowed to play anything but a bodhran. His impersonation of a "whirling Dervish" on the zouk drowns out bodhran, pipes, accordion and probably bag pipes, and all out of time.
And Johnny J, there are no rules. That was invented recently by people not from the tradition. Go into a pub in N.Ireland and someone says "sorry, no bodhrans" well the likely outcome would be that in twenty minutes time the other players would be saying "sorry, no pub anymore".
Last Sunday we had one banjo, one piano accordion, who doesn't play tunes, four guitarists, and three bodhrans. People thought it was a wonderful nights entertainment, brought joy to their gray, mundane world. Is this a crime?
If you told me sorry no bodhran, you would be wearing your fiddle as a necklace.
And it is easy to understand why melody players lift a bodhran, they crave the limelight, the adulation from the punters, not afforded to mere melody players. The true bodhran player plays to enhance and embellish the sacred tradition, melody players do it to try to show off, usually with disasterous results.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
I wish there were more "sessions" with the likes of one banjo, one piano accordion, who doesn't play tunes, four guitarists, and three bodhrans, where people thought it was a wonderful nights entertainment.
They are a draw away from us "show of" tune players.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Hey Dirt Heel, yes I do play bodhran too !
And yes you're right I should probably not play it out and about because I stopped practising the day I picked up the whistle (which I still don't play well)
But I would depend on someone like yourself to tell me that I was crap, in a nice way, if I was making a complete balls up of a set in a session. So don't hang back be assertive and the nice person you are and help a nice person like me to not make a complete ar$£ of themselves.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by flossie
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
In front of all the people they admire most!
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by flossie
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
ye can't hide from the facts.....................
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
At last Michael, the truth. At last.
And many melody players are failed bodhran players. McGoldrick, Llig, Bach, and Stephane Grapelli to name but a few.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Ace sports reporter Buster Bodhran first turned to journalism after finally being (forcefully) told of his complete lack of rhythm.
# Posted on October 9th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
...by the mother of his 15 children.....
# Posted on October 10th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
This has probably been said but ,If I got a pound for every melody player that told me they could play the bodhran and when I give them the chance to play !, They play for a few bars and realise that they are brutal or 2 they decline and say "Oh its been a while" wot a load of bull. I could play hurling one time but I won't say I can play know just in case I'm asked to tog out.................... oh ya I'd have about 563 pound but Im not counting
# Posted on October 10th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
In West Cork they thought I was the best hurler they ever saw, in Roscarberry. How was I to know it was football territory.
And you are right about melody players and the bodhran. Most of them have no sense of timing, too busy listening to themselves, the self centred, jumped up..................
# Posted on October 10th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
They find it well nigh impossible to listen.
# Posted on October 10th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Bliss Carbery(the divisional side) won a senior county in 1994 ............
# Posted on October 10th 2007 by Saint
Re: "Oh, I play the bodhran too!"
Go Spot, go!
# Posted on October 10th 2007 by mcknowall