Today I had the frustrating and educational experience of tracking down an old partly remembered favourite tune, having found it on a recording with a name (of sorts), and looking for it on The Session using title and ABC. No joy, so I figured it out, discovered useful things about using ABC, submitted it and lo it was a duplicate.
Fortunately it didn't clutter up the new tunes for long, but I hadn't recorded it's Session title, and it was LOST again. What to do?
Searched the Discussion threads for "Alternate tune"
On a session thread a while back, BagLady gives this reference: www.irishtune.info
This found my tune by its familiar title and has the dots for the first 2 bars as well, enabling me to use ABC format and find it again on the session where it is now safely in my tunebook.
I found it was the second bar by itself which located the session tune.
There would be room for a crosslinked index of tune titles on this site.
So, I don't know if the scots,english and welsh have a similar resource but the Irish one above was handy!
The tune was Eddie Kelly's number 1, the first of a set of 3 jigs called Eddie Kelly's set, on Sail og Rua, by John Faulkner and Dolores Keane.
Does anyone know an easier way to hunt for tunes which have alternate titles?
Mrs. B - are you conversant in abc format? It could make things easier, as there are a lot of tune collections in that format on the web.
The 'Advanced Search' function in the tunes database lets you search on an abc fragment. But I have never found it particularly effective - it either comes up with no matches or a list of 100 or so.
I hope you entered the 'alternate title' in the 'another name' list?
Processes for finding a tune can still fail after trying a dozen options. I have in the past, used first the name list, in part and with alternates, then resorted to the ABCs, in various combinations and not just one bar, but especially if there is something that is distinctive about the melody, bar or beat or whatever. Then, not through, if all that doesn't work, I'll try one or two other keys...
http://www.irishtune.info/ is a site I also find valuable, but as he's first to admit, it is just what he has in his collection. There are a lot of things not in the database. And, no, there's not much else out there. However, there are some commercial sites, selling CDs, that you can use their search feature for looking up tune or dance names. Here's a few, including a member's site, Nigel Gatherer ~
The 'google' options has worked time and time again for me. It ain't bad, if the ABCs are somewhere on the net. You might need to add something like the tune form to narrow the results, such as 'polka'. Also remember the way that ABCs can vary. Some folks pack em' in ~ G2A B2d e2f g2e ~ while others space them more in keeping with the dots ~ G2 A B2 d e2 f g2 e ~ one bar worth of a slide for the example...
I use this option as well as what was previously mentioned, in order to try to insure I don't 'duplicate' a submission on site here, but it isn't failsafe. I've had a few submissions go the usual way of duplications ~ "POOF!"
Ceolachan,it is listed as eddie kelly's 2 already, I just checked. I'll be aware to add alternate titles, but they won't show in a search will they?
Llig Leahcim,I have a recording.
I have it now on my computer and could slow it down so i could work out the notes. Then
I wrote out the notation on manuscript then converted it to ABC format. Point taken to search for the most distinctive bits of the tune not just the start.
Trouble is I couldn't hear all the notes well enough to sing them along or be certain of htem esp in the faster bits, and definitely not at speed. The recording is old, from a tape, and furry, raspy fiddle with hefty ornaments and a lot of pulse. The furry raspy qualities may be the tape's fault-also I like having a set of notes as an aide memoire.
I sure had muddled the memory of that tune by the time I located it again. So why not look for abc when i have a recording if i can't work it all out by listening?
Basically, I use google to search the archives here, which Jeremy pointed out can be done with the Search tab in the HOME section of the site.
Google is useful, because you can punch in snippets from different parts of the tune (choosing ones that are not likely to have been written with ornamentation, etc), and it will also search through the Comments section of a tune, where people often post other settings!
But, sometimes, with the variety of ways numbered tunes can be written, it is sometimes bust to do the search sans the numbers... Besides, they get mixed up as well, with something being known as both #1 and #3, for example...
Thanks Ceolachan.
I found it-eddie kelly's no 1, in the alternate titles. AllI can think is I was having brain strains when I've tried before. Or because the names seemed increasingly less related not looking on the following pages, which I think was the issue.
So now I can put a tune into ABC format which has been a good learning exercise, also found some other useful links.
when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Today I had the frustrating and educational experience of tracking down an old partly remembered favourite tune, having found it on a recording with a name (of sorts), and looking for it on The Session using title and ABC. No joy, so I figured it out, discovered useful things about using ABC, submitted it and lo it was a duplicate.
Fortunately it didn't clutter up the new tunes for long, but I hadn't recorded it's Session title, and it was LOST again. What to do?
Searched the Discussion threads for "Alternate tune"
On a session thread a while back, BagLady gives this reference: www.irishtune.info
This found my tune by its familiar title and has the dots for the first 2 bars as well, enabling me to use ABC format and find it again on the session where it is now safely in my tunebook.
I found it was the second bar by itself which located the session tune.
There would be room for a crosslinked index of tune titles on this site.
So, I don't know if the scots,english and welsh have a similar resource but the Irish one above was handy!
The tune was Eddie Kelly's number 1, the first of a set of 3 jigs called Eddie Kelly's set, on Sail og Rua, by John Faulkner and Dolores Keane.
Does anyone know an easier way to hunt for tunes which have alternate titles?
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by mrs.b
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Mrs. B - are you conversant in abc format? It could make things easier, as there are a lot of tune collections in that format on the web.
The 'Advanced Search' function in the tunes database lets you search on an abc fragment. But I have never found it particularly effective - it either comes up with no matches or a list of 100 or so.
JC's tune finder http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/ offers a similar service, which I have found similarly ineffective.
Putting part of the abc code straight into Google can sometimes work.
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
I hope you entered the 'alternate title' in the 'another name' list?
Processes for finding a tune can still fail after trying a dozen options. I have in the past, used first the name list, in part and with alternates, then resorted to the ABCs, in various combinations and not just one bar, but especially if there is something that is distinctive about the melody, bar or beat or whatever. Then, not through, if all that doesn't work, I'll try one or two other keys...
http://www.irishtune.info/ is a site I also find valuable, but as he's first to admit, it is just what he has in his collection. There are a lot of things not in the database. And, no, there's not much else out there. However, there are some commercial sites, selling CDs, that you can use their search feature for looking up tune or dance names. Here's a few, including a member's site, Nigel Gatherer ~
http://www.musicinscotland.com/
http://www.footstompin.com/
http://www.nigelgatherer.com/
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
The 'google' options has worked time and time again for me. It ain't bad, if the ABCs are somewhere on the net. You might need to add something like the tune form to narrow the results, such as 'polka'. Also remember the way that ABCs can vary. Some folks pack em' in ~ G2A B2d e2f g2e ~ while others space them more in keeping with the dots ~ G2 A B2 d e2 f g2 e ~ one bar worth of a slide for the example...
I use this option as well as what was previously mentioned, in order to try to insure I don't 'duplicate' a submission on site here, but it isn't failsafe. I've had a few submissions go the usual way of duplications ~ "POOF!"
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
ABC Music Notation
http://www.walshaw.plus.com/abc/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abc_notation
http://www.lesession.co.uk/
http://www.lesession.co.uk/abc/abc_notation.htm
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Why were you looking for the abc when you had a recording?
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ...
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Ceolachan,it is listed as eddie kelly's 2 already, I just checked. I'll be aware to add alternate titles, but they won't show in a search will they?
Llig Leahcim,I have a recording.
I have it now on my computer and could slow it down so i could work out the notes. Then
I wrote out the notation on manuscript then converted it to ABC format. Point taken to search for the most distinctive bits of the tune not just the start.
Trouble is I couldn't hear all the notes well enough to sing them along or be certain of htem esp in the faster bits, and definitely not at speed. The recording is old, from a tape, and furry, raspy fiddle with hefty ornaments and a lot of pulse. The furry raspy qualities may be the tape's fault-also I like having a set of notes as an aide memoire.
I sure had muddled the memory of that tune by the time I located it again. So why not look for abc when i have a recording if i can't work it all out by listening?
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by mrs.b
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Also thanks for those links and resources
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by mrs.b
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
I posted a thread a while back about this:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14781
Basically, I use google to search the archives here, which Jeremy pointed out can be done with the Search tab in the HOME section of the site.
Google is useful, because you can punch in snippets from different parts of the tune (choosing ones that are not likely to have been written with ornamentation, etc), and it will also search through the Comments section of a tune, where people often post other settings!
Pete
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by Reverend
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Yes, 'alternate titles' will show up in the 'Search' feature here on site...
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ceolachan
But, sometimes, with the variety of ways numbered tunes can be written, it is sometimes bust to do the search sans the numbers... Besides, they get mixed up as well, with something being known as both #1 and #3, for example...
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by ceolachan
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
Thanks Ceolachan.
I found it-eddie kelly's no 1, in the alternate titles. AllI can think is I was having brain strains when I've tried before. Or because the names seemed increasingly less related not looking on the following pages, which I think was the issue.
So now I can put a tune into ABC format which has been a good learning exercise, also found some other useful links.
# Posted on September 28th 2007 by mrs.b
Re: when a tune is hiding behind an alias...
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/FCfiles.html
# Posted on October 2nd 2007 by LH