What percentage of the session should be allocated to songs.
Personally I would like to see legislation passed to keep it down to under 4% if at all. I go to a session to play ( or try to play) Jigs and reels not to listen to someone croon and swoon about some geezer prancing around a codpeice 300 years ago chasing the fair maiden etc etc. Its not on. Tunes rule.
Get with the program all ye minstrels. Slim.
Steve,
Just because you have a singing voive like a crow that's been sat on, doesn't mean you need to denigrate those of us with dulcet tones...
Even as we speak I'm dusting off my cod piece and boning up on a thirty verse murder ballad for this Saturday's sesh.
Just for you
Eno
We have a weekly session. At the last session of each month if someone wants to sing that is the time. Sometimes a good singer will drop by. We invite them to give us a song. I love playing tunes . . . but a good singer can be fun. The best ones know how to pull it off without taking away from the tunes.
we have no singing at our session. I invited people who only wanted tunes when we started and that is the way it has stayed. I would enjoy a handful of songs, but we have a large amount of folk singers(of various skill levels) in our city and if we opened it up to singing, it would quickly become a giant circle of guitars.
We usually have a couple of songs each session. When we got started I borrowed some of the suggestions that Dow used for a session in Sydney and handed a little welcome letter around to whoever showed up. Part of it let people know that they were at a "mostly tunes," session, but that a song or 2 would be great. And so it has turned out. A couple of lovely voices(and the lovely people that go with them)) have started coming, and they give a change in atmosphere. some variety to the occasion and also give the players a chance to say hi to their pints.
One mention of cod peices and he's out of the woodwork.
Eno, shouldn't you be solving the water crises.
'tis with alarm I viewed a great fiddle player and a great flute player totally ignored by the masses in my dream.
A young boy's maiden session appearance on fiddle made my afternoon, only to be followed by someone launching into Streets of London a mere nano second later, uggghh, just as the young fella about to sight read another reel. Thank God I was there to make sure he did in fact secure this profound moment in his young life. End of dream.
And Eno, if you turn up in that powdered wig again, there'll be
the devil toupee' !
Ours is a folk club session, rather than a strictly trad session, so we have loads of singing.
There are always a few decent singers about, and, as a singer myself, it suits me.
Less of the codpiece and comely maidens, though - it's more a "cabin where I grew up a whisky-soaked garsún" and "the ould sod where I used to milk the geese by moonlight" kind of session.
What amuses me is that in the midst of a fairly right-on down the road ITM instrumental session certain characters will sing songs from a very varied source indeed. A much more catholic selection than a lot of the players would "approve" of session-tune-wise.
One gets old English folk songs, Val Doonican/ The Dubliners nonsense, songs from the music hall or old films/ musicals...and if it's a six string devil player singing, it may well be Elvis, Zimmerman or (as last week, Jupiter protect us!) John Denver! It's all quite quaint and charming, really!
I'll always remember the night a singer gave us "Ring of Fire" to everyone's amazement but all was quickly forgiven when he explained that the night was the first anniversary of Johnny Cash's death! My own view, for what it's worth, is that no session is complete without a song or two but no more.
Believe it or not, many people don't just think of a session as a place where *tunes* are played or even *Irish* tunes.
You might wish to argue that a song session isn't actually a session but a "singaround" and also other types of sessions aren't true sessions either but "jams" or whatever.
It has been suggested that the Irish session as we know it today originated around 1947 in London pubs(featuring Irish music performed by immigrant residents there) before spreading around The Globe. Therefore, you might consider that a *true* session comprises only Irish music and "all tunes".
We've been through all this before but there are all types of arrangements to be found. As far as I'm concerned, a session should be whatever its founders/regulars wish it to be. Those casual visitors who attend ought to respect the wishes of the regulars.
So, if it's all "head down no nonsense" tunes, so be it. On the other hand, if there's about a dozen decrepit old goats in a circle belting out twenty verse ballads all night that's OK too. Just leave them to it! I certainly would!
Anyway, back to the original question. I really don't mind a few songs in a mainly instrumental session. It depends on who the singer is, of course, and their attitude. Also, the timing is crucial. There's nothing worse than "the singer" hovering on the edges ready to dive in with a song whenever there's a break. Of course, many players can sing too but they usually know when it's appropriate.
Songs *can* be good and break up the tunes tunes tunes. But what can be hard to swallow is an Englishman singing, with impunity, in an opera voice, a die-hard Republican song, of which he has no knowledge of its origins, and just because it is a dramatic song, one that might be local to a particular area and that might be sung at Republican funerals.
I think a key point here is that the Session as far as I can seeis largely historically an Irish phenomenon, stemming from
dances out at the crossroads, tunes in the kitchen with bottles of whisky etc, all old school stuff, but the bottom line is it is dance music, and yet a session can be dominated by people
who aren't even into the tunes.
I don't mind a song either ,a couple of songs is ok. But when
I walk into a pub I don't think anything can compare to "that "
sound.
Did nobody ever play music before the Irish? Did nobody ever sing songs informally, including the Irish?
There's always been informal get togethers of all sorts. Whether or not they should be referred to or described as sessions, of course, is another matter. However, these days they often are and I'm afraid that we are now obliged to differentiate between an Irish Tune Session(Or a session as mnay people here would think of it) and other arrangements whether we want to or not.
Well Johnny, it just seems to me that the Irish have been the only ones in Europe able to maintain this level of communal
music making through the centuries.
Well, it's only since the late forties that we've had sessions of the kind most of the people here "are used to", i.e tune sessions in pubs. It didn't even happen quite like that in Ireland.
"the Irish have been the only ones in Europe able to maintain this level of communal music making "
Nonsense.
The music has certainly caught the imagination of people around the world but there's still local music to be found in most areas. Apart from some pubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh and one or two other areas, you'll find that the majority of sessions in Scotland now feature Scottish music or a mixture although there'll often be a few Irish tunes as well.
An aside, arising from that last post of yours, Johnny J. When I was a lad, there used to be very frequent, but impromtu, 'Sing-songs' in just about any pub throughout South Wales, where I grew up. Doesn't seem to happen any more, more's the pity.
Oh, and the majority of the songs were definitely what I would call traditional - sosban fach, calon lan etc. *Everybody* knew *all* the words, and belted out the tunes, in four-part harmony (I kid you not) with gusto.
I'd have no problem with rebel songs - Grace, James Connolly, The Old Fenian Gun are three that immediately come to mind - and you don't have to be Irish to hold republican or socialist views. I'd be fairly sure that if James Connolly himself were singing, it would have been with a Scottish accent!
I said "this level of communal music making." which is true whichever way you look at it. Just on a global basis even before the big Irish music revival.
Scotland may come second with all of its music .
England may be third with those Morris men jumping around.
Who cares?
Irish tunes are superior IMNSHO.
And I'm not even Irish.
Go the Wallabies!
This is an Irish Music site is it not?
Love the Flowers of Edinburgh by the way, Billy Malley's Schottische always hits me hard.
I'm not disputing that Irish music is the most popular and you might even argue that it's the best. However, it's not the only music out there and is a minority compared to the total of all the other music(s) in the world.
"This is an Irish Music site is it not?"
Well, it is a "de facto" Irish Music site which mainly discusses Irish music and is tune based. Whether or not Jeremy intended it to be exclusively so, I don't know, but it has expanded to include tunes from other cultures and discussions beyond the "pure drop" of Irish music.
So, in the real world, there is much more out there besides Irish music. I'm just making that point.
Of course, in your original post, you are thinking of a "session" as being a gathering of musicians playing mainly Irish tunes which is probably the experience and preferred scenario of most people on this site. I addressed that earlier on, I think, when I suggested that a few songs were all right in their place but it really depended on the wishes of those who were the founders or regular participants of a particular session.
Amen. Plenty about everywhere really - sometimes songs bring the worst out of people, and this gives credence to the opinion music can be a powerful force that inspires or infuriates.
I love a song in a session - especially a singy-alongy after a few beers song. This can often become a cacophony but it's the spirit that counts in these cases. The more refelective songs only work if everyone in the pub keeps quiet and the singer is any good. Which is why I never sing.
OK Johnny J. I took note of you saying that and I agree with the
idea of the original founders of the session calling the shots,
but in my particular example I have witnessed the original
founders, players, archivists, drink runners, musical anthropologists, fag rollers and enthusiasts be pushed into the endangered species list by the singers, and if you don't watch out , it can happen to you. They breed like rabbits as well.
The first week you'll have two,then four, then sixteen and on it goes. The next thing you know all you'll have to look forward to
is trying to accompany "Caledonia" in F# on your concertina.
ha ha - yes, the term Standard Deviation is a bit of an oxymoron....how can a deviation be standard if it is a deviation away from a standard? ....erm.... if you see what I mean.....
Come all ye bold cod-piece wearers and listen unto me,
To hear of the days of sessions, fitting tune-players to a T,
Until there came a stockinged fruit, with cod-piece, but not man,
With songs all night he tormented the players 'til they kicked him in the can.
Singers can often ruin the momentum of a session, particularly bad singers! It is rare to find a really good singer at a session, if there is a really good singer at a session then I'm all for a few songs but if it is just songs for the sake of singing a few songs then I don't want any in a session....singers have singing sessions for this!
I don't go to singing sessions but I wonder what would happen if an instrumentalist turned up at a singing session and asked if they could play a few tunes..........
Poets? Singers? What is this, open-mike night at the coffee house? Next thing you know you'll hear bongos and the scent of patchouli will replace the stale porter...
I once had someone say to me "I don't like harp music" at a session (before they'd even heard me play) and when their turn came they sang 20 verses of the most god-awful boring cr@p I've ever heard. Put me off solo singers for life - one verse of a song is enough to get the gist of it!!
We are blessed with two quality singer/guitar players in our town - one from Edinburgh and one from Manchester. Both pick the perfect times to drop in a song, during natural breaks in the tunes. They have a great sense of the flow and the feel of the session. The Scotsman is also a great trad guitar player to boot backing each tune like a pro. Every once in a while some mope will come by and want to sing all 213 verses of "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" or something, but in general we have a great balance (mostly tunes with a few tastefully done songs thrown in)
Who said the violin or fiddle is the instrument that sounds closest to the human voice?
Well, if singers are to be banned or at least discouraged from sessions, so also should fiddles. And why stop there? What about those dry-tuned boxes that sound like fiddles? Then there's concertinas, pipes.... come to think of it, sessions should be banned altogether.
Taking that thought to it's logical conclusion Bliss (at least this side of the water) you'd have to make 50% of the songs and tunes pop music, because to the regulars all that Irish stuff sounds the same.
I surrender. I was cross-posting & cross-threading* 50%of these discussions all sound the same. Odd tradition.
*see markharmers' futile attempts to provoke controversy on Daniel McKay's "whatdoyoucallit"
frisbee - I've often (though not recently) been to singarounds / Circles Of Death and played a couple of tunes when my turn has come round with the consent of the company, nor have my drinks been spiked with marrowbones or the black apples of Mordor.
Yeah it was great to see the young fiddle player at the sesh(yay i'm not the youngest anymore!) Unfortunately a few of the singing types forget that we play tunes after 4:00. I witnessed in the first half of the sesh a newbie tune player was reminded that tunes are played later in the session as it's singing from 2:00pm till 4:00pm. Maybe the singers need the same kind of gentle reminders.
I have no time for feeble-voiced croakers who sing from the book and "perform" as if it is the first time they have seen the song.
I love to borrow their book "for a look through" (as early as possible in the evening) then ask them to sing one "without the book" - they always decline.
I am always amazed that some people have the audacity to attempt a difficult song in front of hyper-critical musicians, who are just champing at the bit to rip a singer to bits.
Actually, most singers don't really mind this although they generally consider songs to be "more important". However, if you play a tune or two(They generally don't like long sets), it's seen as "your turn". Also, if others join in with you as you would normally expect and even consider desirable(in most cases) then the singers there might consider that they have also had "their turn". I've had many an argument in these types of session and can find it diffcult to convince the singers that we players aren't really having "extra shots".
So, you'll then get musicians who would rather play an unfamiliar tune or a "set piece" solo just to make sure that they aren't missed out.
All this can be quite nerve wracking unless, of course, you're one of those who just likes to be the centre of attraction.
I do attend such set ups from time to time but obviously much prefer having tunes with other musicians in a normal session.
"I am always amazed that some people have the audacity to attempt a difficult song in front of hyper-critical musicians, who are just champing at the bit to rip a singer to bits."
Heck, you've got to have some fun in life. It's a sad day if you can't rag up some purist tunemangler with all 234 verses of 'Four and Twenty Virgins' whilst he sits and twiddles with his banjo.
A ballad, comic song, or sean nos song are not out of place ONCE IN A WHILE. If it ever gets to the point of being tunes-song-tunes-song-tunes-song etc., I have to leave.
I guess if a session is about a good exchange of music, then I can't see why a solo song would have any place in that process - where basically one person "performs" (dare I use that word here) to the assembled audience.
In terms of exchanging music, you only need one verse in order to "get the tune".
If it's a song where everyone can join in (instrumental or singing) then I think that's slightly better. But if you're talking about a solo song where everyone else shuts up - frankly, I'm in agreement with Jig - ie, percentage = None.
Folk songs at Sessions.
Folk songs at Sessions.
What percentage of the session should be allocated to songs.
Personally I would like to see legislation passed to keep it down to under 4% if at all. I go to a session to play ( or try to play) Jigs and reels not to listen to someone croon and swoon about some geezer prancing around a codpeice 300 years ago chasing the fair maiden etc etc. Its not on. Tunes rule.
Get with the program all ye minstrels. Slim.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions
I enjoy a few songs at every session. It breaks up the session quite nicely. Of course, they have to be done well....
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Grack
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Steve,
Just because you have a singing voive like a crow that's been sat on, doesn't mean you need to denigrate those of us with dulcet tones...
Even as we speak I'm dusting off my cod piece and boning up on a thirty verse murder ballad for this Saturday's sesh.
Just for you
Eno
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
We have a weekly session. At the last session of each month if someone wants to sing that is the time. Sometimes a good singer will drop by. We invite them to give us a song. I love playing tunes . . . but a good singer can be fun. The best ones know how to pull it off without taking away from the tunes.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Should be ~ sometimes a singer (often from out of town)
will drop by on a night other than the last session of the month. ITMS [If that makes sense]
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
we have no singing at our session. I invited people who only wanted tunes when we started and that is the way it has stayed. I would enjoy a handful of songs, but we have a large amount of folk singers(of various skill levels) in our city and if we opened it up to singing, it would quickly become a giant circle of guitars.
Rob
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by mellow_bellows
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
We usually have a couple of songs each session. When we got started I borrowed some of the suggestions that Dow used for a session in Sydney and handed a little welcome letter around to whoever showed up. Part of it let people know that they were at a "mostly tunes," session, but that a song or 2 would be great. And so it has turned out. A couple of lovely voices(and the lovely people that go with them)) have started coming, and they give a change in atmosphere. some variety to the occasion and also give the players a chance to say hi to their pints.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by whistlers brother
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
A giant circle of guitars (shudder). I guess, actually, a giant circle of anything would be pretty gross!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
One mention of cod peices and he's out of the woodwork.
Eno, shouldn't you be solving the water crises.
'tis with alarm I viewed a great fiddle player and a great flute player totally ignored by the masses in my dream.
A young boy's maiden session appearance on fiddle made my afternoon, only to be followed by someone launching into Streets of London a mere nano second later, uggghh, just as the young fella about to sight read another reel. Thank God I was there to make sure he did in fact secure this profound moment in his young life. End of dream.
And Eno, if you turn up in that powdered wig again, there'll be
the devil toupee' !
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Ours is a folk club session, rather than a strictly trad session, so we have loads of singing.
There are always a few decent singers about, and, as a singer myself, it suits me.
Less of the codpiece and comely maidens, though - it's more a "cabin where I grew up a whisky-soaked garsún" and "the ould sod where I used to milk the geese by moonlight" kind of session.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by RockyRoader
"Well it's one for the money..."
What amuses me is that in the midst of a fairly right-on down the road ITM instrumental session certain characters will sing songs from a very varied source indeed. A much more catholic selection than a lot of the players would "approve" of session-tune-wise.
One gets old English folk songs, Val Doonican/ The Dubliners nonsense, songs from the music hall or old films/ musicals...and if it's a six string devil player singing, it may well be Elvis, Zimmerman or (as last week, Jupiter protect us!) John Denver! It's all quite quaint and charming, really!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Maybe, once in a while, one funny one at the end of the night. That's all. Songs tend to play to an audience. And you know my feelings on that one.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I'll always remember the night a singer gave us "Ring of Fire" to everyone's amazement but all was quickly forgiven when he explained that the night was the first anniversary of Johnny Cash's death! My own view, for what it's worth, is that no session is complete without a song or two but no more.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Well, if it's a Singing Session....why not?
Believe it or not, many people don't just think of a session as a place where *tunes* are played or even *Irish* tunes.
You might wish to argue that a song session isn't actually a session but a "singaround" and also other types of sessions aren't true sessions either but "jams" or whatever.
It has been suggested that the Irish session as we know it today originated around 1947 in London pubs(featuring Irish music performed by immigrant residents there) before spreading around The Globe. Therefore, you might consider that a *true* session comprises only Irish music and "all tunes".
We've been through all this before but there are all types of arrangements to be found. As far as I'm concerned, a session should be whatever its founders/regulars wish it to be. Those casual visitors who attend ought to respect the wishes of the regulars.
So, if it's all "head down no nonsense" tunes, so be it. On the other hand, if there's about a dozen decrepit old goats in a circle belting out twenty verse ballads all night that's OK too. Just leave them to it! I certainly would!
Anyway, back to the original question. I really don't mind a few songs in a mainly instrumental session. It depends on who the singer is, of course, and their attitude. Also, the timing is crucial. There's nothing worse than "the singer" hovering on the edges ready to dive in with a song whenever there's a break. Of course, many players can sing too but they usually know when it's appropriate.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Well, if it's a Singing Session....why not? - Agree with you Johnny J on this and the question here would be "are tune players allowed?"
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Songs *can* be good and break up the tunes tunes tunes. But what can be hard to swallow is an Englishman singing, with impunity, in an opera voice, a die-hard Republican song, of which he has no knowledge of its origins, and just because it is a dramatic song, one that might be local to a particular area and that might be sung at Republican funerals.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Sessions without an occasional song (sung well in key) are boring.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by halfwaythere
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I think a key point here is that the Session as far as I can seeis largely historically an Irish phenomenon, stemming from
dances out at the crossroads, tunes in the kitchen with bottles of whisky etc, all old school stuff, but the bottom line is it is dance music, and yet a session can be dominated by people
who aren't even into the tunes.
I don't mind a song either ,a couple of songs is ok. But when
I walk into a pub I don't think anything can compare to "that "
sound.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
"As far as I can see"
Did nobody ever play music before the Irish? Did nobody ever sing songs informally, including the Irish?
There's always been informal get togethers of all sorts. Whether or not they should be referred to or described as sessions, of course, is another matter. However, these days they often are and I'm afraid that we are now obliged to differentiate between an Irish Tune Session(Or a session as mnay people here would think of it) and other arrangements whether we want to or not.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
" Englishman singing, with impunity, in an opera voice, a die-hard Republican song"
Perhaps he's an Englishman with Republican sensibilities?
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Well Johnny, it just seems to me that the Irish have been the only ones in Europe able to maintain this level of communal
music making through the centuries.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
" through the centuries"
Well, it's only since the late forties that we've had sessions of the kind most of the people here "are used to", i.e tune sessions in pubs. It didn't even happen quite like that in Ireland.
"the Irish have been the only ones in Europe able to maintain this level of communal music making "
Nonsense.
The music has certainly caught the imagination of people around the world but there's still local music to be found in most areas. Apart from some pubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh and one or two other areas, you'll find that the majority of sessions in Scotland now feature Scottish music or a mixture although there'll often be a few Irish tunes as well.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
An aside, arising from that last post of yours, Johnny J. When I was a lad, there used to be very frequent, but impromtu, 'Sing-songs' in just about any pub throughout South Wales, where I grew up. Doesn't seem to happen any more, more's the pity.
Oh, and the majority of the songs were definitely what I would call traditional - sosban fach, calon lan etc. *Everybody* knew *all* the words, and belted out the tunes, in four-part harmony (I kid you not) with gusto.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I'd have no problem with rebel songs - Grace, James Connolly, The Old Fenian Gun are three that immediately come to mind - and you don't have to be Irish to hold republican or socialist views. I'd be fairly sure that if James Connolly himself were singing, it would have been with a Scottish accent!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
>Perhaps he's an Englishman with Republican sensibilities.
Good try. Complete t w a t, more like
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I said "this level of communal music making." which is true whichever way you look at it. Just on a global basis even before the big Irish music revival.
Scotland may come second with all of its music .
England may be third with those Morris men jumping around.
Who cares?
Irish tunes are superior IMNSHO.
And I'm not even Irish.
Go the Wallabies!
This is an Irish Music site is it not?
Love the Flowers of Edinburgh by the way, Billy Malley's Schottische always hits me hard.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
"Good try. Complete t w a t, more like"
Is this one Englishman in particular, or all of them?
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
C Slim,
I'm not disputing that Irish music is the most popular and you might even argue that it's the best. However, it's not the only music out there and is a minority compared to the total of all the other music(s) in the world.
"This is an Irish Music site is it not?"
Well, it is a "de facto" Irish Music site which mainly discusses Irish music and is tune based. Whether or not Jeremy intended it to be exclusively so, I don't know, but it has expanded to include tunes from other cultures and discussions beyond the "pure drop" of Irish music.
So, in the real world, there is much more out there besides Irish music. I'm just making that point.
Of course, in your original post, you are thinking of a "session" as being a gathering of musicians playing mainly Irish tunes which is probably the experience and preferred scenario of most people on this site. I addressed that earlier on, I think, when I suggested that a few songs were all right in their place but it really depended on the wishes of those who were the founders or regular participants of a particular session.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
One. Of course. I live in England.
Don't you think it could only be a tosser who could carry on like that?
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
To answer the question, I think it should be around 22.647%
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Amen. Plenty about everywhere really - sometimes songs bring the worst out of people, and this gives credence to the opinion music can be a powerful force that inspires or infuriates.
I love a song in a session - especially a singy-alongy after a few beers song. This can often become a cacophony but it's the spirit that counts in these cases. The more refelective songs only work if everyone in the pub keeps quiet and the singer is any good. Which is why I never sing.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Conán, you are so wrong! "Everybody knows" it should be no more than 22. 646%
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Wuhoo
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
But what about error bars? Standard deviation?
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Sorry John; I based my figures on linear regression! Schoolboy error.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
OK Johnny J. I took note of you saying that and I agree with the
idea of the original founders of the session calling the shots,
but in my particular example I have witnessed the original
founders, players, archivists, drink runners, musical anthropologists, fag rollers and enthusiasts be pushed into the endangered species list by the singers, and if you don't watch out , it can happen to you. They breed like rabbits as well.
The first week you'll have two,then four, then sixteen and on it goes. The next thing you know all you'll have to look forward to
is trying to accompany "Caledonia" in F# on your concertina.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Yeah, I tried that Regression Analysis once. Didn't work for me. Couldn't see how it was supposed to solve my problems.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
There's no such thing as a standard deviation ... or was it an original sin?
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Wuhoo
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
ha ha - yes, the term Standard Deviation is a bit of an oxymoron....how can a deviation be standard if it is a deviation away from a standard? ....erm.... if you see what I mean.....
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Come all ye bold cod-piece wearers and listen unto me,
To hear of the days of sessions, fitting tune-players to a T,
Until there came a stockinged fruit, with cod-piece, but not man,
With songs all night he tormented the players 'til they kicked him in the can.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Champagne, SWFL , very nice, but don't get me started on poets. If you really want to F##k up a session, invite a couple of poets.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Poets......?
Even worse...If you really want to F##k up a session, invite a couple of *Story Tellers*.......
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
"invite a couple of poets"
Very true. It soon turns into open mic!
I think 3 or 4 songs in a session is about right. But I only like trad ones or rebel songs. Not the Streets of London.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by mehitabel23
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Having said that, there's (arguably) a time and place for everything but, I agree, not in a tunes session.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Singers can often ruin the momentum of a session, particularly bad singers! It is rare to find a really good singer at a session, if there is a really good singer at a session then I'm all for a few songs but if it is just songs for the sake of singing a few songs then I don't want any in a session....singers have singing sessions for this!
I don't go to singing sessions but I wonder what would happen if an instrumentalist turned up at a singing session and asked if they could play a few tunes..........
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Worldwide Pants
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Poets? Singers? What is this, open-mike night at the coffee house? Next thing you know you'll hear bongos and the scent of patchouli will replace the stale porter...
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I once had someone say to me "I don't like harp music" at a session (before they'd even heard me play) and when their turn came they sang 20 verses of the most god-awful boring cr@p I've ever heard. Put me off solo singers for life - one verse of a song is enough to get the gist of it!!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I'd say you're OK to sing a song at a session as long as you're not within 15 minutes of closing time and the song is no longer than 3 minutes.
Anyone who starts a long grim slow song after last orders are called should be frogmarched into the street and banned for life
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Bren
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I like to sing............. but not at any session.
Once in a while we'll have a song, and we usually consider ourselves lucky because it's so good!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by morning star
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
We are blessed with two quality singer/guitar players in our town - one from Edinburgh and one from Manchester. Both pick the perfect times to drop in a song, during natural breaks in the tunes. They have a great sense of the flow and the feel of the session. The Scotsman is also a great trad guitar player to boot backing each tune like a pro. Every once in a while some mope will come by and want to sing all 213 verses of "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" or something, but in general we have a great balance (mostly tunes with a few tastefully done songs thrown in)
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Who said the violin or fiddle is the instrument that sounds closest to the human voice?
Well, if singers are to be banned or at least discouraged from sessions, so also should fiddles. And why stop there? What about those dry-tuned boxes that sound like fiddles? Then there's concertinas, pipes.... come to think of it, sessions should be banned altogether.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I enjoy lustily lilting/braying along to any tune I haven't bothered to learn to play.
Brayers: rarer than players.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Depends where you are, what setting. In a pub, out of respect, 50% songs, because to the regulars all that fiddley dee sounds the same.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Taking that thought to it's logical conclusion Bliss (at least this side of the water) you'd have to make 50% of the songs and tunes pop music, because to the regulars all that Irish stuff sounds the same.
Out of respect, like.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by grego
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
That would be closer to 100% when the singer has a bodhran backer. Then the songs all sound the same. . . To the regulars.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Further prove that whether it is tunes or folk songs ~ they each trump 50% of the jokes. Whatever that means.
Mr. Harmer, I believe it's a wash!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I surrender. I was cross-posting & cross-threading* 50%of these discussions all sound the same. Odd tradition.
*see markharmers' futile attempts to provoke controversy on Daniel McKay's "whatdoyoucallit"
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
frisbee - I've often (though not recently) been to singarounds / Circles Of Death and played a couple of tunes when my turn has come round with the consent of the company, nor have my drinks been spiked with marrowbones or the black apples of Mordor.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by nicholas
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
The spelling was changed to protect the innocent.
Key Maniac Lad ~ Mr. Mackay . . . or in webtalk KML.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Tonya
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I know, Tonya, I tried my best. I'll have to get an alter ego so I don't have to be polite!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
might I suggest "remrah kram", Mark?
Pete
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Reverend
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Ooh! That's clever. I bet no-one else has thought of doing that.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Hi - it was a dig at "Tonya"
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I know, I know. i was just going with the flow as suggested by the Reverend.
Ah well. [sigh]
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Can we get back to crucifying singers please?
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Definitely!!!
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Hmph! Had my new name an hour, and sick of it already, so had to change it back.
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Ohhhhh...
Give Oirland back to tha Oirish,
Give Lapland back to the Laps,
Give Choina back to tha Choinese,
And Yoko back to the Japs
--Sir Paul McC, as re-interp'd by Nat'l Lampoon, circa 1978
# Posted on September 25th 2007 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
When we where young and our sesh was an open book,
We used to say sing and let sing,
No we didn't, No we didn't, No we didn't.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Hi Steve,
Yeah it was great to see the young fiddle player at the sesh(yay i'm not the youngest anymore!) Unfortunately a few of the singing types forget that we play tunes after 4:00. I witnessed in the first half of the sesh a newbie tune player was reminded that tunes are played later in the session as it's singing from 2:00pm till 4:00pm. Maybe the singers need the same kind of gentle reminders.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by davydd
Re: Folk songs at Tune Sessions? Say No
I have no time for feeble-voiced croakers who sing from the book and "perform" as if it is the first time they have seen the song.
I love to borrow their book "for a look through" (as early as possible in the evening) then ask them to sing one "without the book" - they always decline.
I am always amazed that some people have the audacity to attempt a difficult song in front of hyper-critical musicians, who are just champing at the bit to rip a singer to bits.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Re playing tunes in a singing session.
Actually, most singers don't really mind this although they generally consider songs to be "more important". However, if you play a tune or two(They generally don't like long sets), it's seen as "your turn". Also, if others join in with you as you would normally expect and even consider desirable(in most cases) then the singers there might consider that they have also had "their turn". I've had many an argument in these types of session and can find it diffcult to convince the singers that we players aren't really having "extra shots".
So, you'll then get musicians who would rather play an unfamiliar tune or a "set piece" solo just to make sure that they aren't missed out.
All this can be quite nerve wracking unless, of course, you're one of those who just likes to be the centre of attraction.
I do attend such set ups from time to time but obviously much prefer having tunes with other musicians in a normal session.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Johannes J
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
"I am always amazed that some people have the audacity to attempt a difficult song in front of hyper-critical musicians, who are just champing at the bit to rip a singer to bits."
Heck, you've got to have some fun in life. It's a sad day if you can't rag up some purist tunemangler with all 234 verses of 'Four and Twenty Virgins' whilst he sits and twiddles with his banjo.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
A ballad, comic song, or sean nos song are not out of place ONCE IN A WHILE. If it ever gets to the point of being tunes-song-tunes-song-tunes-song etc., I have to leave.
# Posted on September 26th 2007 by Hanley
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
Hey Hanley, you've inspired me to do a quick guide to attending a session:
DO I STAY OR DO I GO?
If...
People's fingers are occupied in playing, STAY
You see someone with a finger in one ear, it's SINGING
You see people with fingers in both ears, GO
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by Mark Harmer
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
None.
well ok, depends on whose singing.
# Posted on September 27th 2007 by jig
Re: Folk songs at Sessions.
I guess if a session is about a good exchange of music, then I can't see why a solo song would have any place in that process - where basically one person "performs" (dare I use that word here) to the assembled audience.
In terms of exchanging music, you only need one verse in order to "get the tune".
If it's a song where everyone can join in (instrumental or singing) then I think that's slightly better. But if you're talking about a solo song where everyone else shuts up - frankly, I'm in agreement with Jig - ie, percentage = None.
# Posted on September 28th 2007 by Mark Harmer