I spent the afternoon yesterday resurrecting some old-time and Appalachian tunes on my fiddle; I also began to recall my love-hate relationship with cross-tunings, and to wonder why fiddlers on our side of the Atlantic went for alternate tunings in a such big way. The usual reason I hear for using the different tunings is that a solo fiddle playing a dance wanted to make the sound more full, but I’m thinking a lot of Irish dance fiddlers had to go it alone, so I’m not sure if that would be the whole reason.
Many of the tunes are the same, but they take on a very different flavor with, for example, and AEAE tuning. And it seems that all of the stringed instruments except the fiddle routinely use alternate tunings in traditional Irish music.
Maybe the Scottish influence predominated among the Appalachian fiddlers…that would make sense, given the settlement patterns. I think that they are more inclined towards oddball tunings.
Just random musings; anyone have any other thoughts on this?
Fiddle is only one of the typical instruments in Irish music. Flutes/whistles/pipes also share the sessions, and switching keys in the middle of a set is all but expected. Appalachian Old-Timey music usually involves playing in one key (or one tune!) for as long as is reasonable before switching (and then, when keys are changed, nearly everyone retunes).
Cross-tuned fiddles, while they are very good for certain keys, don't tend to deal with other keys as easily. Who want's to spend the entire session retuning their fiddle between sets? Easier to just tune normally, and play with everybody.
There certainly are times when one can cross tune in Irish music to great effect. O'Keefe/Murphy/Clifford did it, and I'm fairly certain that John Doherty did too. These days, James Kelly, and Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh are among the few that have recorded cross-tuned tracks recently.
But at the end of the day, it's just more awkward to cross-tune when you are expected to change keys between tunes. That's probably the biggest reason folks don't do it often.
I started my fiddling in the OT world. In the key of A, you can catch yourself playing exclusively on the A and E strings. The AEAE tuning can get you some nice drones in an easy way. You can also drop to the lower strings without changing fingerings.
For the most part, I just stay with standard tuning these days. I play with folks that can change to GDGD or AEAE really fast. Way quicker than the banjo people take. Of course, you better use steel strings.
It's an interesting question. I would guess the Scots influence is really the key to at least part of the question. So many of the settlers to Appalachia were Scots, it makes sense that Scottish cross-tunings would survive there.
I love some of the tunes played in cross-tunings, but I don't like the effect on my fiddle (it gets a wee bit tense and shrieky when I use AEAE) and I don't like retuning. The result is that I usually either don't play those tunes, or I play the conventionally-tuned versions of them instead.
Batlady, you going to get Shakespearical this fall? We could play some tunes together...
I don't think the issue of tune- and -key switching is a wholly significant consideration - or at least not as important as one might think. Until the 1900s, even Irish musicians were only playing single-tune sets: listen to Patrick Kelly or Elizabeth Crotty or the McDonagh brothers. I'm more inclined to suggest that the issue has more to do with the diminishing of regional stylism in the Irish sector - simply put, crosstuning was not that popular in Coleman country and bam! Nobody's playing tunes or sets that suit the practice.
It's a shame, really. When Caoimhin was here in Rhode Island, we decided to have a couple of tunes in GDGD and got some fantastic lift out of it. Didn't seem to bother our flautist too much playing A down in G, but I guess you need good people playing good tunes to get it right, hm?
James Kelly used to play the Foxhunter's Reel in AEAE tuning- great drones and playing in the lower register for some of the parts- he recorded it that way twice, in fact.
Sunnybear, do you listen to Aly Bain or Tom Anderson? Both use (or used, in the case of Anderson) cross-tuning and have recorded tunes played on crosstuned fiddles. It's common in the Shetland Islands. It was also common in Scotland generally during the second half of the 18th century, at the time when many Scots settled in the Appalachian region.
Alistair Hardie's "Caledonian Companion" and the Taigh na Teud player's guide "Traditional Scottish Fiddling" both discuss cross-tuning (AKA scordatura) in detail.
While you're on the subject, does anyone know what the 'Deadman's Tuning' might be? I heard a recording of Dirk Powell playing a tune he composed in this way.
Cheers. R.
Interesting to note that a number of older Cape Breton fiddle tunes and some Donegal fiddle tunes are done in AEAE tuning, which points to Scottish influence. We have to recall that mainstream Scottish fiddling underwent a strong classicising in the early 19th century, so you have to go to Cape Breton and Donegal to see glimpses of what Scottish fiddling originall sounded like.
Also interesting to hear how similar some of the earliest recordings of Appalachian fiddling sound to Shetland fiddling. Obviously there couldn't be an overwhelming Shetland influence in Appalachia, rather, I believe that Shetland fiddling retains features which were once widespread throughout Scotland.
Alternative fiddle tunings
Alternative fiddle tunings
I spent the afternoon yesterday resurrecting some old-time and Appalachian tunes on my fiddle; I also began to recall my love-hate relationship with cross-tunings, and to wonder why fiddlers on our side of the Atlantic went for alternate tunings in a such big way. The usual reason I hear for using the different tunings is that a solo fiddle playing a dance wanted to make the sound more full, but I’m thinking a lot of Irish dance fiddlers had to go it alone, so I’m not sure if that would be the whole reason.
Many of the tunes are the same, but they take on a very different flavor with, for example, and AEAE tuning. And it seems that all of the stringed instruments except the fiddle routinely use alternate tunings in traditional Irish music.
Maybe the Scottish influence predominated among the Appalachian fiddlers…that would make sense, given the settlement patterns. I think that they are more inclined towards oddball tunings.
Just random musings; anyone have any other thoughts on this?
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by Michele Sims
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
Fiddle is only one of the typical instruments in Irish music. Flutes/whistles/pipes also share the sessions, and switching keys in the middle of a set is all but expected. Appalachian Old-Timey music usually involves playing in one key (or one tune!) for as long as is reasonable before switching (and then, when keys are changed, nearly everyone retunes).
Cross-tuned fiddles, while they are very good for certain keys, don't tend to deal with other keys as easily. Who want's to spend the entire session retuning their fiddle between sets? Easier to just tune normally, and play with everybody.
There certainly are times when one can cross tune in Irish music to great effect. O'Keefe/Murphy/Clifford did it, and I'm fairly certain that John Doherty did too. These days, James Kelly, and Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh are among the few that have recorded cross-tuned tracks recently.
But at the end of the day, it's just more awkward to cross-tune when you are expected to change keys between tunes. That's probably the biggest reason folks don't do it often.
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by Georgi
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
I started my fiddling in the OT world. In the key of A, you can catch yourself playing exclusively on the A and E strings. The AEAE tuning can get you some nice drones in an easy way. You can also drop to the lower strings without changing fingerings.
For the most part, I just stay with standard tuning these days. I play with folks that can change to GDGD or AEAE really fast. Way quicker than the banjo people take. Of course, you better use steel strings.
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by nofrets
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
It's an interesting question. I would guess the Scots influence is really the key to at least part of the question. So many of the settlers to Appalachia were Scots, it makes sense that Scottish cross-tunings would survive there.
I love some of the tunes played in cross-tunings, but I don't like the effect on my fiddle (it gets a wee bit tense and shrieky when I use AEAE) and I don't like retuning. The result is that I usually either don't play those tunes, or I play the conventionally-tuned versions of them instead.
Batlady, you going to get Shakespearical this fall? We could play some tunes together...
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by sara g
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
I don't think the issue of tune- and -key switching is a wholly significant consideration - or at least not as important as one might think. Until the 1900s, even Irish musicians were only playing single-tune sets: listen to Patrick Kelly or Elizabeth Crotty or the McDonagh brothers. I'm more inclined to suggest that the issue has more to do with the diminishing of regional stylism in the Irish sector - simply put, crosstuning was not that popular in Coleman country and bam! Nobody's playing tunes or sets that suit the practice.
It's a shame, really. When Caoimhin was here in Rhode Island, we decided to have a couple of tunes in GDGD and got some fantastic lift out of it. Didn't seem to bother our flautist too much playing A down in G, but I guess you need good people playing good tunes to get it right, hm?
--DtM
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
James Kelly used to play the Foxhunter's Reel in AEAE tuning- great drones and playing in the lower register for some of the parts- he recorded it that way twice, in fact.
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by azfiddle
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
I know of absolutely zero Scots who crosstune...
what they do know is how to play in more than 2 keys, though
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
Sunnybear, do you listen to Aly Bain or Tom Anderson? Both use (or used, in the case of Anderson) cross-tuning and have recorded tunes played on crosstuned fiddles. It's common in the Shetland Islands. It was also common in Scotland generally during the second half of the 18th century, at the time when many Scots settled in the Appalachian region.
Alistair Hardie's "Caledonian Companion" and the Taigh na Teud player's guide "Traditional Scottish Fiddling" both discuss cross-tuning (AKA scordatura) in detail.
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by sara g
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
Yeah, Aly Bain plays The Hangmans Reel. So does Charlie McKerron, i think in A E A C#
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by achisholm
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
"I know of absolutely zero Scots who crosstune"
.....but you live in Raleigh, NC !
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by domhnall.
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
While you're on the subject, does anyone know what the 'Deadman's Tuning' might be? I heard a recording of Dirk Powell playing a tune he composed in this way.
Cheers. R.
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by Dragut Reis
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
hmmm..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scordatura#Scordatura_in_folk_music
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by achisholm
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
Thanks for the link, achisholm. I particularly liked the cross-string arrangement in the photo. We're not going there.....
The AEAE tuning works for a fair number of tunes, and the resonance I get from the instrument is very pleasing. This is fun to fool around with.
Sara-yes, we are heading your way in a couple of weeks; a veritable Shakespeare marathon. Six plays, three days, if we snag the waitlist tickets.
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by Michele Sims
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
cool..I'll give a listen
"but you live in Raleigh, NC !"
yeah, not the oasis of Scottish fiddling, but tehre is some around here and there...
I'll look at the Caledonian Companion
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
azfiddle,
you surely mean PatrickKelly,the tune Foxhunters Reel was collected from him,
maybeJamesKelly played it too,and who knows GraceKellyaswell.
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
Patrick Kelly, as well as James Kelly, Maeve Donnelly, Caoimhin o'Raghallaigh, and Sean Keane, just off the top of my head.
--DtM
# Posted on September 18th 2007 by Dan the Man
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
Interesting to note that a number of older Cape Breton fiddle tunes and some Donegal fiddle tunes are done in AEAE tuning, which points to Scottish influence. We have to recall that mainstream Scottish fiddling underwent a strong classicising in the early 19th century, so you have to go to Cape Breton and Donegal to see glimpses of what Scottish fiddling originall sounded like.
Also interesting to hear how similar some of the earliest recordings of Appalachian fiddling sound to Shetland fiddling. Obviously there couldn't be an overwhelming Shetland influence in Appalachia, rather, I believe that Shetland fiddling retains features which were once widespread throughout Scotland.
# Posted on September 19th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Alternative fiddle tunings
all very interesting!
# Posted on September 20th 2007 by achisholm