Having listened to many ceili band competitions recently i am wondering if they are in fact ceili band competitions at all. Ceili bands I understood had a primary role of playing for dancers. But despite the briilliant musicians , tight playing, balance , tuning etc of the bands the music played in the competitions just does not work for dancing. The ornamentations and variations being used very often break the flow of the music, for example the Stop/Start break in playing is used to show that the band can stop and start again together but it upsets the fow of the tune.
Basically what I am trying to say is that the bands are trying to hard to show us what they can do with their gimmicky ornamentations and variations but loosing sight of their primary function.
I'm down to Tulla this weekend to listen and dance to a real ceili band, it would seem from the crowds going to the Tulla CB(compared to the other bands) during the Willie week that i am not alone in my estimation of them. Simply the Best
I'm not a dancer but I do find the "mandatory" variations in band competitions very irritating from a purely listening point of view. Maybe it attracts more marks from adjudicators but it upsets the flow of a tune and in any case a rehearsed variation to me is NOT a variation. Maybe we need a change in fleadh rules on this one!
Ah................. come lads the first time the REBELS win the ceilí band section sour grapes...............................Up the rebels win or lose we'll have booze..........
However, one must point out - on the Rebels' behalf - that they DO play for set dancing!
I danced to them at several céilithe in Miltown back in July, and they were well prepared to play for a céilí. Their choice of tune sets, timing and the "flow" were terrific for dancing (and I've been dancing for more than 45 years).
I'm still very partial to the Clare bands, and I must admit that on the first evening that The Allow played, I was a bit skeptical heading into the céilí. However, they did themselves proud.
The Allow were very worthy winners (I think the first time I heard them was in Listowel some 6 or more years ago and they made a big impact then). In fact I didn't get to the Senior bands competition in Tullamore this year so I'm not knocking the rebels! However I was at the under 18 céilí bands competition where the standard was ferocious and in the end Clare's Tigh na Coille were also worthy winners. Nearly every band to my mind put in unnecessary variations but then maybe that's what's required with the present rules.
My other bugbear, that MáirínD has already hinted at, is that all bands competing should be working units that play for dancers at some time or another throughout the year - groupings of good musicians that form a band solely for the competition should be discouraged. We all know who they are as do we know the genuine bands such as the Tulla, Kilfenora, Turloughmore, etc who still play the dance circuits and are genuine céili bands.
The Tulla Ceili Band stopped doing competitions YEARS ago. They know they've nothing to prove and not only are they great for the dancers, they are about the only Ceili band I can listen to on record. They've such a great sound.
As per a recent thread I posted I don't think competitions are healthy for the music, the only thing they seem to be good for is improving players instrumental technique (and putting money into organisers pockets!) and there's a lot more to being a good musician than having good instrumental technique.
Anyway I'll not go on about my feelings regarding competitions any more.
frisbee I agree with the competitions not being healthy ,I competed at lots of sports and now I have no interest in winning anything except the lotto.But I would love to compete in a fleadh just once for myself because its something I never thought I would do in my life and I would concider this a great achievement for me personally.
The point I was trying to make, and some of the replies seem to agree. If you listen to the same band playing for dancers at a ceili and than listen to them playing in the competition in the fleadh you find that their competiton piece are laced with "mandetory" varitaions as bannerman put it. I believe that competition is good for bringing up standards but when the bands introduce variations that upset the rythm of tunes in an effort to impress the judges I have a problem.
I have nothing against Cork Bands I was speaking in general about the Ceili Band competitons including the under age bands where these variations are now been introduced.
Ceili Band Competitions
Ceili Band Competitions
Having listened to many ceili band competitions recently i am wondering if they are in fact ceili band competitions at all. Ceili bands I understood had a primary role of playing for dancers. But despite the briilliant musicians , tight playing, balance , tuning etc of the bands the music played in the competitions just does not work for dancing. The ornamentations and variations being used very often break the flow of the music, for example the Stop/Start break in playing is used to show that the band can stop and start again together but it upsets the fow of the tune.
Basically what I am trying to say is that the bands are trying to hard to show us what they can do with their gimmicky ornamentations and variations but loosing sight of their primary function.
I'm down to Tulla this weekend to listen and dance to a real ceili band, it would seem from the crowds going to the Tulla CB(compared to the other bands) during the Willie week that i am not alone in my estimation of them. Simply the Best
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by murcu
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
I'm not a dancer but I do find the "mandatory" variations in band competitions very irritating from a purely listening point of view. Maybe it attracts more marks from adjudicators but it upsets the flow of a tune and in any case a rehearsed variation to me is NOT a variation. Maybe we need a change in fleadh rules on this one!
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
Ah................. come lads the first time the REBELS win the ceilí band section sour grapes...............................Up the rebels win or lose we'll have booze..........
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Saint
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
However, one must point out - on the Rebels' behalf - that they DO play for set dancing!
I danced to them at several céilithe in Miltown back in July, and they were well prepared to play for a céilí. Their choice of tune sets, timing and the "flow" were terrific for dancing (and I've been dancing for more than 45 years).
I'm still very partial to the Clare bands, and I must admit that on the first evening that The Allow played, I was a bit skeptical heading into the céilí. However, they did themselves proud.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by MairinD
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
The Allow were very worthy winners (I think the first time I heard them was in Listowel some 6 or more years ago and they made a big impact then). In fact I didn't get to the Senior bands competition in Tullamore this year so I'm not knocking the rebels! However I was at the under 18 céilí bands competition where the standard was ferocious and in the end Clare's Tigh na Coille were also worthy winners. Nearly every band to my mind put in unnecessary variations but then maybe that's what's required with the present rules.
My other bugbear, that MáirínD has already hinted at, is that all bands competing should be working units that play for dancers at some time or another throughout the year - groupings of good musicians that form a band solely for the competition should be discouraged. We all know who they are as do we know the genuine bands such as the Tulla, Kilfenora, Turloughmore, etc who still play the dance circuits and are genuine céili bands.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
" I'm not knocking the rebels!" I know that bannerman but us cork people never get sick of being good at everything.............lol
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by Saint
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
The Tulla Ceili Band stopped doing competitions YEARS ago. They know they've nothing to prove and not only are they great for the dancers, they are about the only Ceili band I can listen to on record. They've such a great sound.
As per a recent thread I posted I don't think competitions are healthy for the music, the only thing they seem to be good for is improving players instrumental technique (and putting money into organisers pockets!) and there's a lot more to being a good musician than having good instrumental technique.
Anyway I'll not go on about my feelings regarding competitions any more.
Up Tulla!
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by Bored with thesession.org
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
frisbee I agree with the competitions not being healthy ,I competed at lots of sports and now I have no interest in winning anything except the lotto.But I would love to compete in a fleadh just once for myself because its something I never thought I would do in my life and I would concider this a great achievement for me personally.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by Saint
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
Listening to the Allow band on Comhaltas Live (link below), what got me was that there was so little ornamentation in the first tune.
Anyone else think all the bands sound pretty much the same? (Answering my own question the Mainstreach band were much sweeter - also Comh Live).
(http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_222_2_allow_ceiliband/
Comhaltas Lice!
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by continuo
Re: Ceili Band Competitions
The point I was trying to make, and some of the replies seem to agree. If you listen to the same band playing for dancers at a ceili and than listen to them playing in the competition in the fleadh you find that their competiton piece are laced with "mandetory" varitaions as bannerman put it. I believe that competition is good for bringing up standards but when the bands introduce variations that upset the rythm of tunes in an effort to impress the judges I have a problem.
I have nothing against Cork Bands I was speaking in general about the Ceili Band competitons including the under age bands where these variations are now been introduced.
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by murcu