I’ve recently been doing a lot of reading on gut fiddle strings and thought I’d give them a go. The results so far, have been surprisingly good.
I’ve tried a lot of synthetic and steel core string on my fiddle over the last few months including Vision Titanium, Wondertone, Larsen, Larsen Tzigane, Evah Pirazzi, Helichords, and Dominants and so far have like Dominants followed by Larsen for this instrument. My other fiddle does best with Vision Titanium.
Last night I put on Gold Label gut core strings. Immediately my instrument seemed to resonate more and produce a lot more overtones. The tone is bright and sweet at the same time. They are also fairly responsive (more so than Tziganes which are supposed to be “gut-like”). Stability isn’t there yet but it’s coming along better than expected. I’m about to head out to my first session with the new strings so we’ll see how it goes.
I’m curious how many people out there at thesession.org use or have tried gut strings and if there are any well known fiddlers that use them.
your experiences are much like mine, except I always go back to Dominants with the wondertone E or sometimes the Jargar Forte...
if you like the Gold Label, you will LOVE Eudoxas...they are actually my overall favorite string when pared with a Golden Sprial E....I just do not like to re-tune that often..
having said that, gut strings ARE fairly stable..you pretty much would need to retune during a session at least once anyway, so it really is not that big of a deal..
cudos to you for going gut...there seems to be a resurgance in gut popularity...Pirastro has a new would gut string called Passione...I have a set, put them n for a couple days, but they sounded like Obligatos, a string I am not particularly fond of although they do work for some people....
you don't see many trad Irish fiddlers with gut, but you do see a few Scots strung up with them
I'm not a fan of Obligato either. Everyone describes them as a darker sounding string. I find them metalic and edgy over all and a little thin.
I was thinking I'd try the Olives after this. They are supposed to be brighter then the Gold Lable which are supposed to be brighter than the Eudoxa. Have you tried Olives?
Over the last few (3?) months you've tried nine different sets of strings? How can you possibly know what strings suit you or your fiddle best if you keep changing them so often.
I use Pirastro Olives, have for many years. I've always felt like an oddball using gut strings for fiddling, but I've tried to get into steel and synthetics but they just don't do it for me (I did come from classical playing, so I was using gut before I started fiddling).
I love the strings because they are fairly responsive, feel wonderful under the fingers, and have such a smooth and mellow sound with lots of expression and subtlety.
I hate the strings because they are very unstable and cost a fortune, but I just haven't found any other strings that I like better.
I've been meaning to try the new Passiones; I'm sure they won't sound as good as the Olives but more stability and a lower price sure make them worth a try.
Out of curiosity, I strung up pure gut (unwound) strings once. Not recommended! Hard to get up to pitch without breaking them, very slow response, very unstable, and just not suited for fiddling in any way. But it was an interesting experiment, and I did like the sound...but more suited to playing Bach than ITM, for sure.
Glad to see that a few other fiddlers use gut...I've always kinda felt they weren't for "real" fiddlers, and my using them was just a bad habit from starting out classical.
"having said that, gut strings ARE fairly stable..you pretty much would need to retune during a session at least once anyway, so it really is not that big of a deal.."
Yeah, but that's after a week of breaking them in. It's the break-in period that's annoying (though I think the Olives probably have the longest break-in period, so I'm used to the extreme).
I've had Eudoxas on both my fiddles for the last few weeks and agree with the points Clayton and Sunnybear (in particular) have made.
I installed one set of Eudoxas on my old fiddle as an experiment (the strings on it were due for renewal after 6 months use anyway), and was sufficiently impressed after a couple of weeks that I fitted another set to my modern fiddle.
Each set took a couple of days to bed in and were quite usable in sessions from then on, but full tuning stability took another few days. BTW, I've yet to see a guitarist, mandolinist, banjoist NOT retune several times during a session (unless they've got cloth ears!), and NO type of fiddle string will stay in tune indefintely when being played. It all goes with the physics and mechanical characteristics of the strings and the instrument.
When Eudoxas are first installed the tone sounds a little dull and uninteresting but play them hard for a few hours and the tone gets richer, brighter and bigger as the days go by.
How long will they last? Too early to say, obviously, but my suspicion is that, being aluminum-covered, the G, D, A will gradually lose their tone - as ALL strings, of whatever type, do - long before they physically break. This is assuming that the player looks after the strings, rubbing them down after use, has short finger-nails, has a reasonably low action and doesn't "hammer" the strings with the fingers - a completely unnecessary technique which shortens string life as well as possibly causing finger joint problems in later life.
Don't forget that the salt in perspiration attacks aluminum. Users of uncovered gut strings sometimes rub a trace of olive oil into the fingerboard part of the string (obviously nowhere near the bowing area!). This advice was given me by my cello teacher back in the days when virtually everyone used uncovered gut. I do this now with aluminum-covered strings. A trace of olive oil makes them feel smoother - Eudoxas are very smooth anyway - and protects them from perspiration.
The E-string, being covered steel, may be expected to have a fairly long life. That's been my experience of E's. The Eudoxa E, part of the matched set, is a particulary clear and powerful string. But don't forget that the sound of the upper strings is driven in part by the G-string. A "dead" G will make the whole instrument feel dead; a good quality resonant G, like the Eudoxa, will improve the overall sound and tone. So if you mix 'n' match strings, always pay most attention to the G. Get a good G and the E will more or less look after itself.
If you going to use gut then you've got to get used to tuning from the pegs - micro adjusters are no good for the G and D, but a micro for the A is OK because the A can often be difficult to tune really accurately from the peg and a micro adjuster helps a lot with the last few cents of tuning. So you must ensure that the pegs move easily in the holes. If they don't then get a luthier to look at them. Just as important is the way the string is wound on the peg. Never have the final winding on the peg in contact with the inside of the pegbox - that causes friction which makes tuning difficult and will wear out the string in that region. You only need 3 or 4 windings on the peg (Pirastro recommend this) and make sure that on the A and D the windings tend to pull the peg into the hole. You can't do this with the G and E, but the tension of the G is sufficiently low so that it doesn't cause a problem, and you don't normally tune an E from the peg anyway, except during the initial setup.
The Eudoxa G and D come only with loop ends, which must not be used with micrometer adjusters, so a full integrated micrometer tailpiece is out. You need a basic good quality tailpiece with an add-on micrometer adjuster for the E. The Eudoxa A has a choice of loop or ball end. The ball end A can be used with an add-on micro adjuster if required; the loop-end can't.
Performance? I reckon the Eudoxas are every bit as powerful as anything I've used, probably have a bigger dynamic range than most (you can play really quietly without losing tone or generating squeaks), respond very quickly to the bow, because they feel so light, and have a tonal quality that is still the holy grail of the makers of the non-gut strings (they haven't found it yet). But if you've never previously used gut you may find that you'll need to adjust your bowing technique to get the best out of gut - you don't need the pressure necessary with some non-gut strings, for example. I don't think it's a particularly steep learning curve.
Cost? Eudoxas are similar in price to Obligatos, and in the same sort of price range as other good quality strings used by many players. I believe Olives and Passiones are quite a bit more expensive, but here I think you're looking more at the preserve of the professional.
Someone asked me the other day what was the difference between gut and non-gut fiddle strings. After a moment’s thought I said it was like the tone difference between a keyless wooden flute and a silver flute. They both have their place in music-making.
"I believe Olives and Passiones are quite a bit more expensive, but here I think you're looking more at the preserve of the professional."
Well, professionals tend to use them because they are the high end. But many non-professionals use them too.
Olives are about $80 a set, while most other good strings are about $50 a set. A significant difference, but not enough to make them unaffordable if you like them enough to pay a little more.
The Olive G and D strings are definately worth trying out. No other G/D strings that I've tried have even come close. I like the A and E too, but some people don't.
If you want to see what truly expensive strings go for, check out what the poor suffering cellists have to pay. Those strings make Olive fiddle strings seem downright cheap.
Just back from the session and it went surprisingly well. I do think that these strings have more volume than any other with my instrument. Other players said they really liked the sound and projection etc. was great. I only had to retune once and a half during the three hours. That really surprised me as I’ve heard they take a week to stabilize and I just put them on yesterday.
Llig leahcim: by a few months, I mean more like 5. Also, I am lucky enough to work in a string shop that has a stable of trial strings, i.e. strings that have been played on a bit but have been taken off an instrument for some reason or other before they’ve died. That said, we didn’t have any trial gut strings so I did buy these new. A little more than Dominants but less than most the others.
I'm a poor suffering cellist ...
and my current set of cello strings (Obbligatos) are coming up for replacement after 3 years of use, but then I don't do as much cello playing nowadays as I used to - down to 1 orchestra from 3 - I wonder why .
Cellists tend to mix 'n' match their strings perhaps more than fiddle players do, and it doesn't follow that just because X brand strings are terrific on the fiddle then X brand is also going to be equally good on the cello. I was talking to a professional solo cellist a few months ago and he suggested I use good quality steel core A and D (Spirocores, perhaps) with good quality synthetic core C and G - Obbligatos are a good choice here. I'll probably try that route.
Clayton referred to Obbligatos as being bright and edgy, possibly thin. Some strings just don't suit particular instruments. Anyway, my experience of Obbligatos, both on fiddle and cello, is that they do sound bright and edgy for the first week or so but then mellow (a bit like Dominants).
As I have explained before, it's called "catgut", because it comes from a contraction of "cattle gut", the word "cattle" once referring specifically to sheep, rather than to ... well ... cattle.
I eat sheep. I have no objection to any by-products of the slaughtering process being used for musical purposes. Bagpipes?
Benhall beat me to it - if you're prepared to eat the T-Bone or rump bits, what's wrong with making good use of the bits that are left over. In any case no one has ever spoken up for those poor unfortunate goats who've sacrificed their lives down through the years for the sake of the bodhran players.
He says you will need a higher bridge for gut strings to compensate for the low tension of the strings. He also says that the bridge's "curvature can be flatter the tighter the strings."
Also good rosin is important. The fellow who wrote this article recommends the frightfully expensive "Liebenzeller Rosin", but I like Melos light violin rosin.
Even if sheep are kept solely for providing wool to clothe us (an extremely lucrative business in the Middle Ages and before), they do eventually die, so spare parts are available for making gut strings (and not only for musical instruments), and their skins provided much sought-after writing material.
I have never found that a higher bridge is needed for gut strings, provided the starting bridge was cut properly to begin with...really Eudoxas are about the same tension, maybe a little less, than Dominants.
the leonid violin site refernced above is indeed full of information....misinformation
I've just had a look through the Leonid article. One thing that surprised me (for he is apparently a conservatoire teacher) is his belief that an open E gives a dreadful sound.
Some years ago (before I started the fiddle) we had a workshop for our small symphony orchestra, and the tutor went to great lengths trying to get the fiddle players to play open E's, with variable results. Some players were clearly frightened to play the open E, and of course when they did the result was unpleasant. Other players adapted fairly quickly but most of them obviously still preferred the fingered E. We cellists and violists, who were quite used to playing open top strings, just sat, watched and shook our heads in disbelief.
Now, in ITM fiddle playing a fingered E is very much the exception and most players soon learn to produce a good open E tone without thinking about it. I've never understood why some classical players, who are otherwise competent, have this hang-up about playing the open E. The hang-up isn't helped, in my view, by some conductors we had for that orchestra who actively discouraged the open E. Again, I'm not clear why. I'm talking about an amateur symphony orchestra, which I quit a while ago.
We don't have problems with open strings in my chamber orchestra - we are blessed with a conductor-violinist who is all for open strings in the right places.
When I took violin as a kid, I was taught that an open string should never be played unless the composer or conductor specifically calls for it.
Open strings do have a very different sound than the fingered notes, so I guess it makes sense if you want the notes to blend together. Open strings kind of pop out at you, which I think is good when fiddling.
I almost always use open strings now that I'm a fiddler. But then, I have a lazy fourth finger
Etymology of “CATGUT”: The Oxford English Dictionary list it as origin unknown. Others give ‘Kit-gut’, ‘kit’ being an archaic word for a pocket sized fiddle. Sounds to me like a later developed false etymology, ‘correcting’ the obscure ‘catgut’. ‘Cattle-gut’, looks like lazy etymology.
However, I heard on BBC Radio 4, some years ago, that it came a rumour put about by the best violin string makers, that their strings were made of cat-gut (rather than sheep gut) in order to discourage the competition from trying to imitate their strings, it being terribly bad luck to kill even one cat! Here’s a version of this account of the origin of the term ‘catgut’: http://www.juststrings.com/lab-hg600.html
I’m not that surprised at the Leonid article’s author’s horror of open E, it’s not uncommon. But clearly many classical players disagree because string makers are doing their best to eliminate the whistle you can sometimes get the on the open E string. You can frequently hear Baroque players playing open strings.
I don’t know if the article’s all that full of misinformation though, and his section on metal strings is flagged with ‘take with a pinch of salt!’ And it must surely be the case that you can get away with a lower and flatter bridge when you’ve got higher tension strings. Still, I suppose most reviews of strings and the like tend to involve a large measure of personal taste.
I tried gut strings a few years ago and apart from the fact that they had a tendency to break, I found the tension a bit low. I tend to like harder strings, with a quicker response, because I find it makes some rapid finger ornamentation easier to do. I generally play on Thomastik Superflexible metal strings. They’ve got a very good response and can give quite a warm tone when you’re used to them. However, I’m putting John Pearse Artiste strings on my other fiddle just to check them out (once they arrive). Tim Kliphuis the Grappelli style jazz violinist plays on these, so I thought I’d see if they really are the best strings around. I heard that John Pearse spent quite a bit of time boiling up sheep guts in the development of these strings, before hitting on a new bonded molecule formulation that emulates the properties of gut.
Olive and Gold Label are both great sets in my book...OIive being a bit more high-maintenance, but I've found that rubbing some string oil over the fingerboard and up near the pegbox prolongs their life.
I find that gut strings, in addition to providing a warm, rich,complex tone, also put me in touch with the sound-world of most of fiddling's history. I've yet to find guts that would give me something I'd call a "bright" tone, but that hasn't kept me up sleepless at nights.
For the same reason, I think that ITM and STM played with a baroque bow can have wonderful results, not the least because (at least in Scotland) the line between "classical" and "folk/traditional" was MUCH more blurry in the 18th century than it is now (and in Ireland, one can think of O'Carolan in this regard as well).
I don't know why Leonid would say something as dumb as gut strings requiring a higher-arched bridge. That's just silly. The history of violin luthierie is one of building instruments that can withstand higher string tension, resulting in steel, synthetic, and composite strings, and more prominently-arched bridges as well. "Fiddle" bridges are quite similar to "baroque" bridges -- both are significantly flatter than the modern classical bridge, and who's ever heard of a period baroque instrument with steel strings??
As far as prominent fiddlers go, I'm pretty certain that Bonnie Rideout uses gut strings, to tremendous effect. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen her in at least one concert where she was definitely on gut.
I've often thought the thing to do would be to have 2 fiddles: one strung with gut, the other with steel or something else. That way, you've got an option, depending on the session or the tune(s) in question.
As a fiddle/violin player, I have recently been tempted
to try a set of Gold Label or Eudoxas. Thanks for all your
serious and experienced input here. I must say, this is
the very first post that I have gotten any valuable info
from in the year that I've been scanning the old "mustard sheet".
Just how much difference is there in tension across gut, synthetic-core and steel strings, anyway?
It’s true that, with bridged stringed instruments, you can start to lose tone, clarity, etc. by lowering the bridge too much, and string tension does figure into this, but it doesn’t follow that every change in string tension requires a change in bridge height. If you go from steel to gut and you hear a loss of clarity or focus, then it *might* be worthwhile to try a slightly taller bridge, but then you’d be introducing all the other variables of a new bridge. I’d try different strings and *maybe* a soundpost adjustment before scrapping a decent bridge.
I use Eudoxa E and A both wound on steel core. have done for years, best strings i have found, for me. Recently tried the DandG but will take a while to get worn in.
Since having gone over to Eudoxas I've found that my CF bow kills a lot of the overtones, effectively making the string quieter and depriving it of its richness. I'm therefore now using my pernambuco bows which suit those Eudoxas far better.
I didn't get this problem when using my CF bow on other types of strings (metal or synthetic core) so this seems to point up a major difference between gut and the rest.
My CF bow is middle of the range, and has a lovely balance and response. Pity about the effect on the tone of gut . Having said that, it may be that a top of range CF bow works well with gut, but I haven't had an opportunity to try one.
Gut Fiddle Strings
Gut Fiddle Strings
I’ve recently been doing a lot of reading on gut fiddle strings and thought I’d give them a go. The results so far, have been surprisingly good.
I’ve tried a lot of synthetic and steel core string on my fiddle over the last few months including Vision Titanium, Wondertone, Larsen, Larsen Tzigane, Evah Pirazzi, Helichords, and Dominants and so far have like Dominants followed by Larsen for this instrument. My other fiddle does best with Vision Titanium.
Last night I put on Gold Label gut core strings. Immediately my instrument seemed to resonate more and produce a lot more overtones. The tone is bright and sweet at the same time. They are also fairly responsive (more so than Tziganes which are supposed to be “gut-like”). Stability isn’t there yet but it’s coming along better than expected. I’m about to head out to my first session with the new strings so we’ll see how it goes.
I’m curious how many people out there at thesession.org use or have tried gut strings and if there are any well known fiddlers that use them.
Clayton
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by iampeterfonda
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
your experiences are much like mine, except I always go back to Dominants with the wondertone E or sometimes the Jargar Forte...
if you like the Gold Label, you will LOVE Eudoxas...they are actually my overall favorite string when pared with a Golden Sprial E....I just do not like to re-tune that often..
having said that, gut strings ARE fairly stable..you pretty much would need to retune during a session at least once anyway, so it really is not that big of a deal..
cudos to you for going gut...there seems to be a resurgance in gut popularity...Pirastro has a new would gut string called Passione...I have a set, put them n for a couple days, but they sounded like Obligatos, a string I am not particularly fond of although they do work for some people....
you don't see many trad Irish fiddlers with gut, but you do see a few Scots strung up with them
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
btw, I like the Larsen strings also.. there is a great review of string on violinist.com
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Lazyhound...where are you?
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I'm not a fan of Obligato either. Everyone describes them as a darker sounding string. I find them metalic and edgy over all and a little thin.
I was thinking I'd try the Olives after this. They are supposed to be brighter then the Gold Lable which are supposed to be brighter than the Eudoxa. Have you tried Olives?
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by iampeterfonda
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Over the last few (3?) months you've tried nine different sets of strings? How can you possibly know what strings suit you or your fiddle best if you keep changing them so often.
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by ...
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
not to mention how much they cost
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by ...
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I use Pirastro Olives, have for many years. I've always felt like an oddball using gut strings for fiddling, but I've tried to get into steel and synthetics but they just don't do it for me (I did come from classical playing, so I was using gut before I started fiddling).
I love the strings because they are fairly responsive, feel wonderful under the fingers, and have such a smooth and mellow sound with lots of expression and subtlety.
I hate the strings because they are very unstable and cost a fortune, but I just haven't found any other strings that I like better.
I've been meaning to try the new Passiones; I'm sure they won't sound as good as the Olives but more stability and a lower price sure make them worth a try.
Out of curiosity, I strung up pure gut (unwound) strings once. Not recommended! Hard to get up to pitch without breaking them, very slow response, very unstable, and just not suited for fiddling in any way. But it was an interesting experiment, and I did like the sound...but more suited to playing Bach than ITM, for sure.
Glad to see that a few other fiddlers use gut...I've always kinda felt they weren't for "real" fiddlers, and my using them was just a bad habit from starting out classical.
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
"having said that, gut strings ARE fairly stable..you pretty much would need to retune during a session at least once anyway, so it really is not that big of a deal.."
Yeah, but that's after a week of breaking them in. It's the break-in period that's annoying (though I think the Olives probably have the longest break-in period, so I'm used to the extreme).
# Posted on September 12th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Eudoxas - first impressions.
I've had Eudoxas on both my fiddles for the last few weeks and agree with the points Clayton and Sunnybear (in particular) have made.
I installed one set of Eudoxas on my old fiddle as an experiment (the strings on it were due for renewal after 6 months use anyway), and was sufficiently impressed after a couple of weeks that I fitted another set to my modern fiddle.
Each set took a couple of days to bed in and were quite usable in sessions from then on, but full tuning stability took another few days. BTW, I've yet to see a guitarist, mandolinist, banjoist NOT retune several times during a session (unless they've got cloth ears!), and NO type of fiddle string will stay in tune indefintely when being played. It all goes with the physics and mechanical characteristics of the strings and the instrument.
When Eudoxas are first installed the tone sounds a little dull and uninteresting but play them hard for a few hours and the tone gets richer, brighter and bigger as the days go by.
How long will they last? Too early to say, obviously, but my suspicion is that, being aluminum-covered, the G, D, A will gradually lose their tone - as ALL strings, of whatever type, do - long before they physically break. This is assuming that the player looks after the strings, rubbing them down after use, has short finger-nails, has a reasonably low action and doesn't "hammer" the strings with the fingers - a completely unnecessary technique which shortens string life as well as possibly causing finger joint problems in later life.
Don't forget that the salt in perspiration attacks aluminum. Users of uncovered gut strings sometimes rub a trace of olive oil into the fingerboard part of the string (obviously nowhere near the bowing area!). This advice was given me by my cello teacher back in the days when virtually everyone used uncovered gut. I do this now with aluminum-covered strings. A trace of olive oil makes them feel smoother - Eudoxas are very smooth anyway - and protects them from perspiration.
The E-string, being covered steel, may be expected to have a fairly long life. That's been my experience of E's. The Eudoxa E, part of the matched set, is a particulary clear and powerful string. But don't forget that the sound of the upper strings is driven in part by the G-string. A "dead" G will make the whole instrument feel dead; a good quality resonant G, like the Eudoxa, will improve the overall sound and tone. So if you mix 'n' match strings, always pay most attention to the G. Get a good G and the E will more or less look after itself.
If you going to use gut then you've got to get used to tuning from the pegs - micro adjusters are no good for the G and D, but a micro for the A is OK because the A can often be difficult to tune really accurately from the peg and a micro adjuster helps a lot with the last few cents of tuning. So you must ensure that the pegs move easily in the holes. If they don't then get a luthier to look at them. Just as important is the way the string is wound on the peg. Never have the final winding on the peg in contact with the inside of the pegbox - that causes friction which makes tuning difficult and will wear out the string in that region. You only need 3 or 4 windings on the peg (Pirastro recommend this) and make sure that on the A and D the windings tend to pull the peg into the hole. You can't do this with the G and E, but the tension of the G is sufficiently low so that it doesn't cause a problem, and you don't normally tune an E from the peg anyway, except during the initial setup.
The Eudoxa G and D come only with loop ends, which must not be used with micrometer adjusters, so a full integrated micrometer tailpiece is out. You need a basic good quality tailpiece with an add-on micrometer adjuster for the E. The Eudoxa A has a choice of loop or ball end. The ball end A can be used with an add-on micro adjuster if required; the loop-end can't.
Performance? I reckon the Eudoxas are every bit as powerful as anything I've used, probably have a bigger dynamic range than most (you can play really quietly without losing tone or generating squeaks), respond very quickly to the bow, because they feel so light, and have a tonal quality that is still the holy grail of the makers of the non-gut strings (they haven't found it yet). But if you've never previously used gut you may find that you'll need to adjust your bowing technique to get the best out of gut - you don't need the pressure necessary with some non-gut strings, for example. I don't think it's a particularly steep learning curve.
Cost? Eudoxas are similar in price to Obligatos, and in the same sort of price range as other good quality strings used by many players. I believe Olives and Passiones are quite a bit more expensive, but here I think you're looking more at the preserve of the professional.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Someone asked me the other day what was the difference between gut and non-gut fiddle strings. After a moment’s thought I said it was like the tone difference between a keyless wooden flute and a silver flute. They both have their place in music-making.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
"I believe Olives and Passiones are quite a bit more expensive, but here I think you're looking more at the preserve of the professional."
Well, professionals tend to use them because they are the high end. But many non-professionals use them too.
Olives are about $80 a set, while most other good strings are about $50 a set. A significant difference, but not enough to make them unaffordable if you like them enough to pay a little more.
The Olive G and D strings are definately worth trying out. No other G/D strings that I've tried have even come close. I like the A and E too, but some people don't.
If you want to see what truly expensive strings go for, check out what the poor suffering cellists have to pay. Those strings make Olive fiddle strings seem downright cheap.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Just back from the session and it went surprisingly well. I do think that these strings have more volume than any other with my instrument. Other players said they really liked the sound and projection etc. was great. I only had to retune once and a half during the three hours. That really surprised me as I’ve heard they take a week to stabilize and I just put them on yesterday.
Llig leahcim: by a few months, I mean more like 5. Also, I am lucky enough to work in a string shop that has a stable of trial strings, i.e. strings that have been played on a bit but have been taken off an instrument for some reason or other before they’ve died. That said, we didn’t have any trial gut strings so I did buy these new. A little more than Dominants but less than most the others.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by iampeterfonda
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Hmmm What poor animal has to lose it's life to produce gut strings just for the sake of better tone etc. ?
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Bernie
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I'm a poor suffering cellist ...
.
and my current set of cello strings (Obbligatos) are coming up for replacement after 3 years of use, but then I don't do as much cello playing nowadays as I used to - down to 1 orchestra from 3 - I wonder why
Cellists tend to mix 'n' match their strings perhaps more than fiddle players do, and it doesn't follow that just because X brand strings are terrific on the fiddle then X brand is also going to be equally good on the cello. I was talking to a professional solo cellist a few months ago and he suggested I use good quality steel core A and D (Spirocores, perhaps) with good quality synthetic core C and G - Obbligatos are a good choice here. I'll probably try that route.
Clayton referred to Obbligatos as being bright and edgy, possibly thin. Some strings just don't suit particular instruments. Anyway, my experience of Obbligatos, both on fiddle and cello, is that they do sound bright and edgy for the first week or so but then mellow (a bit like Dominants).
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
"Hmmm What poor animal has to lose it's life to produce gut strings just for the sake of better tone etc. ?"
Hey, if you want to make an omelet you have to crack some eggs.
They're made from sheep gut. Not cats, though it is called catgut.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
As I have explained before, it's called "catgut", because it comes from a contraction of "cattle gut", the word "cattle" once referring specifically to sheep, rather than to ... well ... cattle.
I eat sheep. I have no objection to any by-products of the slaughtering process being used for musical purposes. Bagpipes?
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Benhall beat me to it - if you're prepared to eat the T-Bone or rump bits, what's wrong with making good use of the bits that are left over. In any case no one has ever spoken up for those poor unfortunate goats who've sacrificed their lives down through the years for the sake of the bodhran players.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
here is the string review...very good information here
http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=6346
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings - String Reviews
Here's an informative article reviewing various kinds of violin string:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~leonid/violin_strings.htm
He says you will need a higher bridge for gut strings to compensate for the low tension of the strings. He also says that the bridge's "curvature can be flatter the tighter the strings."
Also good rosin is important. The fellow who wrote this article recommends the frightfully expensive "Liebenzeller Rosin", but I like Melos light violin rosin.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Even if sheep are kept solely for providing wool to clothe us (an extremely lucrative business in the Middle Ages and before), they do eventually die, so spare parts are available for making gut strings (and not only for musical instruments), and their skins provided much sought-after writing material.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I have never found that a higher bridge is needed for gut strings, provided the starting bridge was cut properly to begin with...really Eudoxas are about the same tension, maybe a little less, than Dominants.
the leonid violin site refernced above is indeed full of information....misinformation
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Sunnybear, I agree. I use quite a low action with no problems, no matter what strings I'm using.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I've just had a look through the Leonid article. One thing that surprised me (for he is apparently a conservatoire teacher) is his belief that an open E gives a dreadful sound.
Some years ago (before I started the fiddle) we had a workshop for our small symphony orchestra, and the tutor went to great lengths trying to get the fiddle players to play open E's, with variable results. Some players were clearly frightened to play the open E, and of course when they did the result was unpleasant. Other players adapted fairly quickly but most of them obviously still preferred the fingered E. We cellists and violists, who were quite used to playing open top strings, just sat, watched and shook our heads in disbelief.
Now, in ITM fiddle playing a fingered E is very much the exception and most players soon learn to produce a good open E tone without thinking about it. I've never understood why some classical players, who are otherwise competent, have this hang-up about playing the open E. The hang-up isn't helped, in my view, by some conductors we had for that orchestra who actively discouraged the open E. Again, I'm not clear why. I'm talking about an amateur symphony orchestra, which I quit a while ago.
We don't have problems with open strings in my chamber orchestra - we are blessed with a conductor-violinist who is all for open strings in the right places.
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
When I took violin as a kid, I was taught that an open string should never be played unless the composer or conductor specifically calls for it.
Open strings do have a very different sound than the fingered notes, so I guess it makes sense if you want the notes to blend together. Open strings kind of pop out at you, which I think is good when fiddling.
I almost always use open strings now that I'm a fiddler. But then, I have a lazy fourth finger
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by Marklar
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings. Etymology of 'Catgut'
Etymology of “CATGUT”: The Oxford English Dictionary list it as origin unknown. Others give ‘Kit-gut’, ‘kit’ being an archaic word for a pocket sized fiddle. Sounds to me like a later developed false etymology, ‘correcting’ the obscure ‘catgut’. ‘Cattle-gut’, looks like lazy etymology.
However, I heard on BBC Radio 4, some years ago, that it came a rumour put about by the best violin string makers, that their strings were made of cat-gut (rather than sheep gut) in order to discourage the competition from trying to imitate their strings, it being terribly bad luck to kill even one cat! Here’s a version of this account of the origin of the term ‘catgut’: http://www.juststrings.com/lab-hg600.html
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I’m not that surprised at the Leonid article’s author’s horror of open E, it’s not uncommon. But clearly many classical players disagree because string makers are doing their best to eliminate the whistle you can sometimes get the on the open E string. You can frequently hear Baroque players playing open strings.
I don’t know if the article’s all that full of misinformation though, and his section on metal strings is flagged with ‘take with a pinch of salt!’ And it must surely be the case that you can get away with a lower and flatter bridge when you’ve got higher tension strings. Still, I suppose most reviews of strings and the like tend to involve a large measure of personal taste.
I tried gut strings a few years ago and apart from the fact that they had a tendency to break, I found the tension a bit low. I tend to like harder strings, with a quicker response, because I find it makes some rapid finger ornamentation easier to do. I generally play on Thomastik Superflexible metal strings. They’ve got a very good response and can give quite a warm tone when you’re used to them. However, I’m putting John Pearse Artiste strings on my other fiddle just to check them out (once they arrive). Tim Kliphuis the Grappelli style jazz violinist plays on these, so I thought I’d see if they really are the best strings around. I heard that John Pearse spent quite a bit of time boiling up sheep guts in the development of these strings, before hitting on a new bonded molecule formulation that emulates the properties of gut.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by dsndfkjasf
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Olive and Gold Label are both great sets in my book...OIive being a bit more high-maintenance, but I've found that rubbing some string oil over the fingerboard and up near the pegbox prolongs their life.
I find that gut strings, in addition to providing a warm, rich,complex tone, also put me in touch with the sound-world of most of fiddling's history. I've yet to find guts that would give me something I'd call a "bright" tone, but that hasn't kept me up sleepless at nights.
For the same reason, I think that ITM and STM played with a baroque bow can have wonderful results, not the least because (at least in Scotland) the line between "classical" and "folk/traditional" was MUCH more blurry in the 18th century than it is now (and in Ireland, one can think of O'Carolan in this regard as well).
I don't know why Leonid would say something as dumb as gut strings requiring a higher-arched bridge. That's just silly. The history of violin luthierie is one of building instruments that can withstand higher string tension, resulting in steel, synthetic, and composite strings, and more prominently-arched bridges as well. "Fiddle" bridges are quite similar to "baroque" bridges -- both are significantly flatter than the modern classical bridge, and who's ever heard of a period baroque instrument with steel strings??
As far as prominent fiddlers go, I'm pretty certain that Bonnie Rideout uses gut strings, to tremendous effect. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen her in at least one concert where she was definitely on gut.
I've often thought the thing to do would be to have 2 fiddles: one strung with gut, the other with steel or something else. That way, you've got an option, depending on the session or the tune(s) in question.
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by drperm
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
As a fiddle/violin player, I have recently been tempted
to try a set of Gold Label or Eudoxas. Thanks for all your
serious and experienced input here. I must say, this is
the very first post that I have gotten any valuable info
from in the year that I've been scanning the old "mustard sheet".
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by hauke
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Just how much difference is there in tension across gut, synthetic-core and steel strings, anyway?
It’s true that, with bridged stringed instruments, you can start to lose tone, clarity, etc. by lowering the bridge too much, and string tension does figure into this, but it doesn’t follow that every change in string tension requires a change in bridge height. If you go from steel to gut and you hear a loss of clarity or focus, then it *might* be worthwhile to try a slightly taller bridge, but then you’d be introducing all the other variables of a new bridge. I’d try different strings and *maybe* a soundpost adjustment before scrapping a decent bridge.
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I use Eudoxa E and A both wound on steel core. have done for years, best strings i have found, for me. Recently tried the DandG but will take a while to get worn in.
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by piobagusfidil
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
steel strings are the highest tension followed by synthetics like Evah, Infeld Red and Blue, Obligato, Vision
then strings like Dominant, Tonica, Synoxa, and Aricore
Olives and Gold label are similar if a wee bit higher tan Dominants
Eudoxas may be a wee bit lower tension
# Posted on September 17th 2007 by Sunnybear
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
Since having gone over to Eudoxas I've found that my CF bow kills a lot of the overtones, effectively making the string quieter and depriving it of its richness. I'm therefore now using my pernambuco bows which suit those Eudoxas far better.
. Having said that, it may be that a top of range CF bow works well with gut, but I haven't had an opportunity to try one.
I didn't get this problem when using my CF bow on other types of strings (metal or synthetic core) so this seems to point up a major difference between gut and the rest.
My CF bow is middle of the range, and has a lovely balance and response. Pity about the effect on the tone of gut
# Posted on September 19th 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Gut Fiddle Strings
I am not surprised..I think cf bows have a place, but I don't see anyone who is serious about tone production using one...
# Posted on September 19th 2007 by Sunnybear