I did a search for this and didn't find any threads exactly on this. The idea is similar to the "Kevin Bacon" number for actors -- or degrees of separation.
If you have played with Kevin Burke, your number is 1.
If you have played with someone who has played with Kevin Burke, your number is 2.
If you have played with someone who has played with someone who has played with Kevin Burke, your number is 3.
And so on...
My guess is that no one here has a number higher than 4. Most likely 3 or less.
Also, if you want to make it tougher -- make it so that the gigs have to pay (be professional), and you get a different number. Your "Professional Kevin Burke" number.
I used to live down the road from Kevin Burke in London and was a good friend of his late father Michael. I also taught his mother to drive and am still in Xmas card contact with her. I sold Kevin my old 120Y Datsun in about 1982 and he drove it to Ireland on a tour. I also have an LP of the ceili band he was with when he was 16. His p[icture is on the sleeve. The Glenside Ceili Band. They won the overseas Ceili Band competition at the Fleadh Ceol at Boyle, Co Roscommon in 1966. I'll settle for a 5.
2 for me. When Kevin played a house concert for me with Cal Scott on guitar, we had a sesison afterwards. Kevin didn't play, but Cal did. Plus sessions with Jackie Daly, Ged Foley, and surely lots of others who I can't imagine wouldn't have played with Kevin.
Not very significant but, a couple of years ago, Mr. Burke was teaching fiddle at the workshops preceeding the Dublin (Ohio) Irish fest. On Wednesday evening, Dave, one of the fellows in the class invited everyone over tohis home for a barbeque and session. Low and behold who shows up at the cookout but the man himself and he joins right in the session with us. So by pure dumb luck, I guess I am a 1.
One of the things about Irish Traditional Music that appeals to me is how the "big stars" don't act that way. I worked in the Rock n Roll business for a long time. I have met many a big rock star. And in most cases, they treat themselves as stars, because they're used to being treated that way.
When I first started playing Irish, I was surprised by the fact that you could go down to the local pub and sit down for some tunes with some of the biggest names in the business. That would be the equivalent of going down to the local roadhouse to jam some blues with Eddie Van Halen, or something.
Then I came to realize that just because someone is talented and well-known in the tradition doesn't mean that they make much money doing it (and a lot of the "stars" have other money making jobs even - out of necessity). And in most cases, they're certainly NOT given much respect by the general public in Ireland. So I always find it rather humorous when people (Americans, especially) treat the more famous players as if they're royalty.
Anyway, funny thread idea. My KB number is 2, through about 50 different paths, I'm sure. It would be fun to be a 1, and maybe that will happen some day...
The Kevin Bacon number was done because a university data analysis of actors working with each other a few years back pinpointed him as the center of the acting universe. I wonder if Burke would really fit that bill. What about Matt Molloy?
Gary, my point wasn't whether Matt Molloy had a KB number of 1. My point was (other than Burke's obvious parallel with Bacon) that Matt Molloy might be a better choice for "center of the universe" player. Since he seemed to play in ALL of the big bands at one time or another in the 70's...
Mine's a 1 if you count sessions and lessons. Kevin's a class guy, very down to earth. I also own Ged Foley's previous "main" fiddle and I've sat next to Ged in a session. Professionally, though, I'm a 2.
I the 80' I played in a session in Copenhagen. One day in came Kevin Burke. (My hero at that time) He was very nice, played in a moderate speed so that everybody could follow. Yeps I have played with Mr. Burke. A number 1 for me ;)
Og my good this is silly ;)
Heh, Gary, I figured that might be what was going on, but it's hard to tell without being able to see the smirk on your face
And mcdevincabe, I stand corrected. I just read more about the origins of the oracle, and that was apparently just who they were talking about when they made up the game (while watching footloose). When I first heard about it in the mid-90's, I was under the impression that they had done a study in a university computer science class, but I was misinformed
I still wonder who the lowest ITM number might be - professionally speaking (from recordings). It might actually be Alec Finn or someone, who has recorded with numerous people over the years as an accompanist.
This is a great exercise that highlights how small the world really is (for example, I was 5 when Le Corbusier died - I'm an architect - , but I would still be a 2 with him); ITM is a smaller world than most, and I agree that it's likely anyone who attends a session regularly is a 2.
I heard Kevin Burke perfom way before I started playing; always a pleare and inspiration. I was lucky enough to tag along for a few tunes late one night with a friend and Johnny B. Connolly (after a Brigetown gig), so I guess that would make me a 2.
Did any of you people play, or been in the same room as
Paddy Canny, Sean Ryan,Seamus Connolly,Brendan Mcglinchey,Paddy Fahy, Eddie Kelly,Sean Keane,Josephine
Keegan,Martin Hayes,Paddy Cronin,
Numbers dont count,none of the above wore a cap.
Paddy Cronin once played for me at the kitchen table of his house in West Roxbury MA-
Seamus Connolly once invited me to play a dance with him here in CO-
I've sat in a few workshops with KB and have met him a few times, he seems very nice.
Peter Horan ( who I nominate as the real center of the ITM universe fiddle player) invited me to a session in Sligo and we got to play some together before the session started.
I claim all of this as luck, nothing about my playing distinguishes me to play in such company.
well i would be a 1 purely because KB dropped in on a session in greenwich several years ago.
i was impressed by his gentlemanly manner and lack of the 'big' ego.
it was just a pity the ozzie barman told him to stop playing come
closing time (back in the dark days when pubs used to shut on sunday afternoons).
and yes,he was wearing his cap.
oddly enough,one of the regulars then had the house in which he was born so it is a small world.
to continue the name- dropping frenzy fest i've just got back from doing a muddy field gig in Derby.one of the numbers was 'minnie the moocher' and in the rehearsal i said to my desk partner that the singer looked a bit like that actor who played 'huggy bear' in 'starsky&hutch'.
well,bugger me if indeed it was n't Antonio Fargas.
how his screen character never got to sleep with the fishes remains one of the mysteries of the modern era...
I like this thread because it is good humoured and silly. I have a KB number of 2 - because my teacher has played/ and had lessons with him. Though, working behind the scenes at a festival, whilst he was waiting for a lift back to his hotel in the office, I offered him a cup of tea, got out the teabags and turned the kettle on and got distracted by a phone call, and had him make ME a cup of tea. So...does that make it more 1.5?
I've downloaded a few Kevin Burke tracks from eMusic. Does that raise me to a 9? Have also visited his website, maybe up to an 8? Still way off the scale I think - but one day.
I'll check around, but I think it's about a 9... BUT, it could go way down if Paul Moore's ever Kevin Burked... or any of those guys I played with in Tis Coili have ever Burked... or the bagpiper from across the street from there.
Statistically there are only about 5 people between two people anywhere in the world. So in my case i.e. there is a two to pope John Paul II and a three to Saddam Hussein.... but that does not really make me feel important
Anyway an unprofessional 2 to Kevin Burke and the rest of the Bothy Band here.
My 'Jeremy number' is also 2 - Jeremy did a (very good) IT presentation for the company of one of my session mates - it was only by chance my mate discovered who it was, when he noticed a reference to playing bouzouki in some of the technical literature! They got chatting about music and .....
2
have had several paying gigs with musicians, one in particular, who have either taken lessons from kevin, or even have spent part of the summer holiday with him in ireland.
1
if non-paying session in catskills count, but i doubt it does... otherwise many more of us would be a 1.
My band supported the Bothy Band at Cardiff Uni. in 1978 and I had a drink with KB, et al, in the changing room afterwards but didn't actuallly play with him as he was off his face by then. Had a good chat with Donal Lunny about how Tommy Peoples got that "crunchy" effect on his triplets though.
Well I have met Johnny J so I must be at the maximum 1 number further away from anyone.
To be honest, given the 5 degrees of seperation thing I would be surprised if anyone in to this music ever got beyond a 3 from anyone else - even if they were tenuous connections.
My K Burke number is probably 2 - and it will be through many routes. I have never met the guy though although he did do a spot with Lunasa on the Celtic Connections festival club stage in January (does that up anyone's number).
I must be a 3, maximum from any world leader/major political figure (including the "indefatigable" Saddam) as you just need to have met an MP to achieve that.
I do find it amusing that my Myspace has had hits on it from Iraq, Afghanistan, China (despite China blocking myspace) and Lebanon (or somewhere very close to it). I hope I am never deemed to be a "risk to national security"!
Anyway if you have spoken to any of the "1's" on this list even through this list doesn't that make you a maximum of a 2?!
What is this about "name dropping"? Last night I was playing with Ed, Tony, Pat and Tommy, and the immortal Kevin McGrath, not to forget Paddy Gillan.
Two weeks ago I was playing with a friend of mine in Mayo. Matt Molloy decided to join in, and then Carlos Nunez arrived, and he is a "performer", but was well enough behaved in a session format.
Now is this "name dropping", or this just a list of who was playing at the session on any given night?
Im a lucky 1 but I live not to far from Portland. There are so many great musicians that have shown up to sessions over the years that it's hard to find one you have not played with.
See? I TOLD you that Matt Molloy was the center of the ITM universe... Even bliss is a 1
And swisspiper, I think statistically there is an average of about 6 people between any two given people on the planet (thus the "6 degrees of separation".) That's figuring the population at about 6 billion people, and each person on average having about 43 friends... (43 ^ 6 = 6,321,363,049)
So thinking of it mathematically. Let's say the average player of ITM has played with 40 different people (some of us have played with hundreds or even thousands, but some have only played with 3 or 4).
So for there to be an average of 3 degrees of separation between any two given players, that would mean about 64,000 people play ITM. (40 ^ 3 = 64,000)
So those numbers are just semi-informed guesses... there are about 40,000 members of this website. Some of them probably aren't players. But there's a multitude of players out there that don't pay attention to this website too...
But I agree with No Cause For Alarm. With the social aspects of this music, it would probably be difficult to find anyone who has been playing for more than, say, a year, that has a higher than 3 number to any other player.
Actually, this phenomenon was demonstrated nicely for us last night at our session. A young lad from Gorteen, Co. Sligo wandered in to the pub with some friends for a pint. He saw us playing, and came over for a couple of tunes on a borrowed whistle. We got to talking, and it was quickly determined that he was a '2' from a number of players at the table, even though we had no prior knowledge of him, and it was a chance meeting out of the blue.
That's the nature of the scene, though. And often players will spend an inordinate amount of time talking to you when you first meet to see who you know in common.
Sorry for flooding the thread... It just got my brain going on this fine morning, where I don't have to go to work!
"Let's say the average player of ITM has played with 40 different people (some of us have played with hundreds or even thousands, but some have only played with 3 or 4"
I think we should also clarify what is meant by "playing with someone".
We seem to have accepted that workshops and tuition don't count but do we mean that it is an explicit agreement or arrangement between one or more musicians, eg within a band, social grouping, a prearranged meeting within a pub etc as opposed to "just happening" to be within the same room or at the same table as the other player?
So, many of us might claim to have played with well known musicians but would they have considered that this was the case? If they remembered who we were even.....
Oh, I dunno, I think having played tunes in a session with someone is enough, even if you didn't talk to them...
I have had a couple of instances where a musician will remember having played with me some time before, even though I had never talked to them at the time. (I'm not saying that they didn't remember me as the 'obnoxious banjo player')
But don't you remember the majority of people that you have played with, even if it was across the room in a crowded pub? Even if you never knew their names? I'm not saying that if I played with you in a session once a couple years ago that I would recognize you on the street, or anything, but if I ran into you in a session, I would probably remember having played with you before.
Why complicate things? What is the difference between me playing at A SESSION with Molloy, Keenan, Burke, McGoldrick and playing at a SESSION with JfiddlerH? You are playing at a session.
Liam Og was different, that was on stage at a gig.
So when all of these people claim to have played with me, are they name dropping? I already know JfiddlerH is.
Well....I am so old that I can remember when young Kevin was regarded as a bit of a tearaway,,,,,,I am a 2, as I've played a gig with Jim Younger, who worked with Kevin in a trio in the late'60's/early '70s'.
Of course, this being The Session, sessions count the same as gigs, but if we had a seperate rating for sessions then I wouldn't be able to count it.
This really does show what a small world it is. If we are all pretty much either 1, 2 or 3 with KB, then we are close to the same with each other. There's some beauty in that. Glad to know you.
Heh, Eliot, that's what Kevin said when he taught me tunes. He'd tell me who he learned a tune from and said I was joining that circle of people by learning the tune from him.
When I think about it, it totally floors me that in this respect I am just a 2 from folks like Bobby Casey, Paddy O'Brien, Junior Crehan, and Martin Rochford!
Heck, Eliot, after reading more about you, you should be able to do a much more in-depth statistical analysis of the relationships within the Irish Music scene than we've done in this thread!
If we could just figure out a way to gamble on the outcome somehow, you could probably get paid for it too!
I really enjoy the social aspect of the music. We're a very small subset of the population, spread far and wide around the world. But the music, by nature, makes it a fairly tight-knit group (even when we're bickering back and forth on an online discussion forum).
The majority of "big name" Irish traditional musicians are down to earth and do not see themselves as an elite, nor as superstars, so name dropping does not come into it.
There can be awkward moments. In Molloys a couple of weeks ago Matt kept calling for applause for "the maestro", which was obviously me, but Carlos kept getting up and bowing to the crowd. A language thing I suspect.
Well, I'm a 1 but only because he dropped in at our local session (Lamb at Oxenhope) when visiting his mother in Keighley. It was a slightly embarrassing moment for me, as we have a local catch phrase in our session - we often greet good players who we haven't seen for a few weeks by saying "right then, play something fantastic" as soon as they sit down - before I knew it, the words just popped out! He took it very well and played Lord Gordon, we went on to have a lovely session of "ordinary" tunes but so beautifully played it made you want to go back and re-learn them.
i'm a 2. and it isn't name-dropping. sociologists have a name for this phenom, but i can't remember what it is. the kevin bacon-kevin burke equiv is hilarious, though.
I'm beginning to think that almost everyone here is a 1 or 2, with just a smattering of 3's. And I bet most of those 3's don't know that they are really 2's.
bodhran bliss how many different keys can you play in.or are
you limited. which source do you get your tunes from? How many slow airs have you got?Do you use a digital tuner?
bodhran bliss how many different keys can you play in.or are
you limited. which source do you get your tunes from? How many slow airs have you got?Do you use a digital tuner?
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by gooseinthenettles
Gosh, Touchy aren't we. But let's give it a try.
Keys: At present on harmonica I have 7 of them in different keys, so that would be seven.
On Whistle it would be the same, 7 whistles, 7 keys.
On Mandolin it is harder. You have to put your fingers in different places, so I would say 5 with some cofidence, and a few others by trial and error. Having played purely by ear helps in this respect.
Source of tunes. From my ears, I hear them, at sessions, on CD, LP, tape, youtube, whatever.
A digital tuner? Most certainly, I like to play instead of mess about all night re-tuning, you know the old "tuning after every tune bit" that "ear posers" do?
Am I the best bodhran player in the world as well as all of this? Well, no-one actually likes to say categorically that they are the best, but.......
Oh, and I am definitely a two by way of Johnny Cunningham, and probably would find that I am a one if I asked enough people I play with. And because of the many festivals and events that mix musicians from around the world, as far as members of The Session are concerned, I would be surprised if many of us were more than twos or threes to each other, it is a small world!!!!
It is indeed a small world. I know 2 folk who know 'sts' for example. I have met a guy who knows 'Phantom' and the San Francisco session crowd and I am sure there are plenty of others.
There are of course the small band of folk that use this site that I know anyway. Anyway don't we all know each other - through Kevin Burke - anyway?!
bodhran blister
have you ever seen a fiddle player use 7 fiddles for 7different keys. 7 whistles in different keys same fingering?come on
you can play in one key,same as guitar bangers using a capo.
Get youself a proper instrument and stop all the crap you,re
spreading.
A capo changes key on a guitar,but not finger shapes.
A proper instrument is 1whistle, 1 mandolin without capo, 1banjo,1fiddle, 1 melodion,1 cocert flute, 1concertina,1 pipes,
1 guitar without strings(in ITM that is) 1 goatskin without a beater,Where is your sense of humour?
I think that anyone who has played in the sessions at the Lark Camp (California) would have a KB number of 2, as a number of people at the camp have played with Kevin. By those numerous routes I'm a 2.
I attended a Kevin Burke workshop that sort of degenerated into a session at the end- but I can't remember if I ended up playing at all, or just listened.
My kid had a lesson with him recently. I observed a modest man - a very kind, ecouraging person. I just hope we can afford to continue the lessons...kinda spendy.
I can't see any rock star of that level giving private lessons to youngsters. Young musicians need someone like Burke to help them along.
It took me this long to figure this one out, because I'm math-challenged, but I'm a definite 47. I dated a girl once, whose older brother lived in a house built by a guy whose next-door neighbor once drove across town to deliver a refrigerator to an old widow whose granddaughter taught school in a classroom that included a student whose family's postman who once mistakenly dropped a letter off at the home of a fellow who...
Your "Kevin Burke" number
Your "Kevin Burke" number
I did a search for this and didn't find any threads exactly on this. The idea is similar to the "Kevin Bacon" number for actors -- or degrees of separation.
If you have played with Kevin Burke, your number is 1.
If you have played with someone who has played with Kevin Burke, your number is 2.
If you have played with someone who has played with someone who has played with Kevin Burke, your number is 3.
And so on...
My guess is that no one here has a number higher than 4. Most likely 3 or less.
Also, if you want to make it tougher -- make it so that the gigs have to pay (be professional), and you get a different number. Your "Professional Kevin Burke" number.
Any 1's here?
I think we are all connected to Kevin Burke.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Eliot
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Mine is 2. I have played in session with several Portland area fiddlers who take lessons with Mr. Burke. Does this qualify?
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by timmy!
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Then my number is 3, but it's quite possible (unknown to me) that my number is 2...
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by BrownAleMugger
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
My number is 2. I've played with Johnny Cunningham ......but only for lessons. Does that count?
Mary
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Antikhntr
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I used to live down the road from Kevin Burke in London and was a good friend of his late father Michael. I also taught his mother to drive and am still in Xmas card contact with her. I sold Kevin my old 120Y Datsun in about 1982 and he drove it to Ireland on a tour. I also have an LP of the ceili band he was with when he was 16. His p[icture is on the sleeve. The Glenside Ceili Band. They won the overseas Ceili Band competition at the Fleadh Ceol at Boyle, Co Roscommon in 1966. I'll settle for a 5.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Ah! Johnny cunningham. In that case my number is definitely 2. I thought it was ...
Free Reed - I think you are being unwarrantedly modest. You are clearly a 1*
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
2 for me. When Kevin played a house concert for me with Cal Scott on guitar, we had a sesison afterwards. Kevin didn't play, but Cal did. Plus sessions with Jackie Daly, Ged Foley, and surely lots of others who I can't imagine wouldn't have played with Kevin.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by GaryAMartin
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Not very significant but, a couple of years ago, Mr. Burke was teaching fiddle at the workshops preceeding the Dublin (Ohio) Irish fest. On Wednesday evening, Dave, one of the fellows in the class invited everyone over tohis home for a barbeque and session. Low and behold who shows up at the cookout but the man himself and he joins right in the session with us. So by pure dumb luck, I guess I am a 1.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by RogueFiddler
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Boo hoo. I'm off the scale 10. I couldn't even go and see Kevin Burke when he was as close as he could get, a mere 1,500 kms away in March this year.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
2
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by seisflutes
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Oooh, a name dropping thread!
One of the things about Irish Traditional Music that appeals to me is how the "big stars" don't act that way. I worked in the Rock n Roll business for a long time. I have met many a big rock star. And in most cases, they treat themselves as stars, because they're used to being treated that way.
When I first started playing Irish, I was surprised by the fact that you could go down to the local pub and sit down for some tunes with some of the biggest names in the business. That would be the equivalent of going down to the local roadhouse to jam some blues with Eddie Van Halen, or something.
Then I came to realize that just because someone is talented and well-known in the tradition doesn't mean that they make much money doing it (and a lot of the "stars" have other money making jobs even - out of necessity). And in most cases, they're certainly NOT given much respect by the general public in Ireland. So I always find it rather humorous when people (Americans, especially) treat the more famous players as if they're royalty.
Anyway, funny thread idea. My KB number is 2, through about 50 different paths, I'm sure. It would be fun to be a 1, and maybe that will happen some day...
The Kevin Bacon number was done because a university data analysis of actors working with each other a few years back pinpointed him as the center of the acting universe. I wonder if Burke would really fit that bill. What about Matt Molloy?
Pete
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Molloy has a Kevin Burke number of 1. I think they were in a band together back in the 70s.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by GaryAMartin
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I believe Mr Burke boasts about having played alongside me in Manchester, so I suppose I must be a Number 1.
Just trying to remember who he was. I know I didn't pay him.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Gary, my point wasn't whether Matt Molloy had a KB number of 1. My point was (other than Burke's obvious parallel with Bacon) that Matt Molloy might be a better choice for "center of the universe" player. Since he seemed to play in ALL of the big bands at one time or another in the 70's...
lol bliss
Pete
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Mine's a 1 if you count sessions and lessons. Kevin's a class guy, very down to earth. I also own Ged Foley's previous "main" fiddle and I've sat next to Ged in a session. Professionally, though, I'm a 2.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I think one or more luminaries put all the rest of my local session(s) at KB 2.
Molloy? Name rings a bell. That's it - he was the one man in Ireland who was never in De Danaan...
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by nicholas
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
That university study found Rod Steiger to be the best center of Hollywood. Kevin Bacon didn't even make the top 100:
http://oracleofbacon.org/center_list.html
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by mcdevincabe
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Yeah, Pete. I was just making a joke, as usual. I guess I'm not as funny as bliss.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by GaryAMartin
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
2, my friend is on close terms with KB, and is staying at his house next week.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Red Crow
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I the 80' I played in a session in Copenhagen. One day in came Kevin Burke. (My hero at that time) He was very nice, played in a moderate speed so that everybody could follow. Yeps I have played with Mr. Burke. A number 1 for me ;)
Og my good this is silly ;)
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by houlberg
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Heh, Gary, I figured that might be what was going on, but it's hard to tell without being able to see the smirk on your face
And mcdevincabe, I stand corrected. I just read more about the origins of the oracle, and that was apparently just who they were talking about when they made up the game (while watching footloose). When I first heard about it in the mid-90's, I was under the impression that they had done a study in a university computer science class, but I was misinformed
I still wonder who the lowest ITM number might be - professionally speaking (from recordings). It might actually be Alec Finn or someone, who has recorded with numerous people over the years as an accompanist.
Pete
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
This is a great exercise that highlights how small the world really is (for example, I was 5 when Le Corbusier died - I'm an architect - , but I would still be a 2 with him); ITM is a smaller world than most, and I agree that it's likely anyone who attends a session regularly is a 2.
I heard Kevin Burke perfom way before I started playing; always a pleare and inspiration. I was lucky enough to tag along for a few tunes late one night with a friend and Johnny B. Connolly (after a Brigetown gig), so I guess that would make me a 2.
Professionally, I'll never be more than a 0...
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Mine is one number higher than Eliot's.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Did any of you people play, or been in the same room as
Paddy Canny, Sean Ryan,Seamus Connolly,Brendan Mcglinchey,Paddy Fahy, Eddie Kelly,Sean Keane,Josephine
Keegan,Martin Hayes,Paddy Cronin,
Numbers dont count,none of the above wore a cap.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by gooseinthenettles
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Does busking count? - that would give me a 2.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by morning star
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
If you count workshops, my number is 1.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Snakefingers
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Paddy Cronin once played for me at the kitchen table of his house in West Roxbury MA-
Seamus Connolly once invited me to play a dance with him here in CO-
I've sat in a few workshops with KB and have met him a few times, he seems very nice.
Peter Horan ( who I nominate as the real center of the ITM universe fiddle player) invited me to a session in Sligo and we got to play some together before the session started.
I claim all of this as luck, nothing about my playing distinguishes me to play in such company.
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Murph
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
2 here
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by Buck
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
well i would be a 1 purely because KB dropped in on a session in greenwich several years ago.
i was impressed by his gentlemanly manner and lack of the 'big' ego.
it was just a pity the ozzie barman told him to stop playing come
closing time (back in the dark days when pubs used to shut on sunday afternoons).
and yes,he was wearing his cap.
oddly enough,one of the regulars then had the house in which he was born so it is a small world.
to continue the name- dropping frenzy fest i've just got back from doing a muddy field gig in Derby.one of the numbers was 'minnie the moocher' and in the rehearsal i said to my desk partner that the singer looked a bit like that actor who played 'huggy bear' in 'starsky&hutch'.
well,bugger me if indeed it was n't Antonio Fargas.
how his screen character never got to sleep with the fishes remains one of the mysteries of the modern era...
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by biggus dave
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
1 and about an hours worth of footage I promised to send to him and still havent got around to it....it is coming....before Christmas.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Joze
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
This whole thread kind of goes against the site rules of namedropping - suprised it hasn't evoked a stronger response from certain quarters
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Donough
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Well...I was just having a few tunes with Jeremey the other night, and he said it would be okay...
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I must be a -6. I only have Burke's DVD.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by brianc
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Portland what? I also have the CD....that puts me at about 7...
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by lamh trom
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I like this thread because it is good humoured and silly. I have a KB number of 2 - because my teacher has played/ and had lessons with him. Though, working behind the scenes at a festival, whilst he was waiting for a lift back to his hotel in the office, I offered him a cup of tea, got out the teabags and turned the kettle on and got distracted by a phone call, and had him make ME a cup of tea. So...does that make it more 1.5?
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by FiddleFancy
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I've downloaded a few Kevin Burke tracks from eMusic. Does that raise me to a 9? Have also visited his website, maybe up to an 8? Still way off the scale I think - but one day.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
My little nephew has a hamster called Kevin. That's about number 13, I suppose?
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Rudall the time
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I'll check around, but I think it's about a 9... BUT, it could go way down if Paul Moore's ever Kevin Burked... or any of those guys I played with in Tis Coili have ever Burked... or the bagpiper from across the street from there.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by pastrings
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Statistically there are only about 5 people between two people anywhere in the world. So in my case i.e. there is a two to pope John Paul II and a three to Saddam Hussein.... but that does not really make me feel important
Anyway an unprofessional 2 to Kevin Burke and the rest of the Bothy Band here.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by swisspiper
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
My 'Kevin Burke number' is 2, having played with Graham Hodge
http://www.grahamhodge.co.uk/bio.html
My 'Jeremy number' is also 2 - Jeremy did a (very good) IT presentation for the company of one of my session mates - it was only by chance my mate discovered who it was, when he noticed a reference to playing bouzouki in some of the technical literature! They got chatting about music and .....
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by domhnall.
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I hope no one is taking this thread too seriously......
I'm probably within a 2 or 3 of most traditional musicians but, believe me, that doesn't mean a thing musically. Just wish it did!
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
2
have had several paying gigs with musicians, one in particular, who have either taken lessons from kevin, or even have spent part of the summer holiday with him in ireland.
1
if non-paying session in catskills count, but i doubt it does... otherwise many more of us would be a 1.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by maze
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
My band supported the Bothy Band at Cardiff Uni. in 1978 and I had a drink with KB, et al, in the changing room afterwards but didn't actuallly play with him as he was off his face by then. Had a good chat with Donal Lunny about how Tommy Peoples got that "crunchy" effect on his triplets though.
That doesn' count at all does it? :(
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Doesn't !!!
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
"My band supported the Bothy Band at Cardiff Uni. in 1978"
Did you, by Jove? I was there!
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Who is Kevin Burke?
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by nemethmik
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Well I have met Johnny J so I must be at the maximum 1 number further away from anyone.
To be honest, given the 5 degrees of seperation thing I would be surprised if anyone in to this music ever got beyond a 3 from anyone else - even if they were tenuous connections.
My K Burke number is probably 2 - and it will be through many routes. I have never met the guy though although he did do a spot with Lunasa on the Celtic Connections festival club stage in January (does that up anyone's number).
I must be a 3, maximum from any world leader/major political figure (including the "indefatigable" Saddam) as you just need to have met an MP to achieve that.
I do find it amusing that my Myspace has had hits on it from Iraq, Afghanistan, China (despite China blocking myspace) and Lebanon (or somewhere very close to it). I hope I am never deemed to be a "risk to national security"!
Anyway if you have spoken to any of the "1's" on this list even through this list doesn't that make you a maximum of a 2?!
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I'm a 2 to anyone who has ever prayed...... I spoke to God last night.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by session savage
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
What is this about "name dropping"? Last night I was playing with Ed, Tony, Pat and Tommy, and the immortal Kevin McGrath, not to forget Paddy Gillan.
Two weeks ago I was playing with a friend of mine in Mayo. Matt Molloy decided to join in, and then Carlos Nunez arrived, and he is a "performer", but was well enough behaved in a session format.
Now is this "name dropping", or this just a list of who was playing at the session on any given night?
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Im a lucky 1 but I live not to far from Portland. There are so many great musicians that have shown up to sessions over the years that it's hard to find one you have not played with.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by mandobuilder
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
See? I TOLD you that Matt Molloy was the center of the ITM universe... Even bliss is a 1
And swisspiper, I think statistically there is an average of about 6 people between any two given people on the planet (thus the "6 degrees of separation".) That's figuring the population at about 6 billion people, and each person on average having about 43 friends... (43 ^ 6 = 6,321,363,049)
Pete
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
So thinking of it mathematically. Let's say the average player of ITM has played with 40 different people (some of us have played with hundreds or even thousands, but some have only played with 3 or 4).
So for there to be an average of 3 degrees of separation between any two given players, that would mean about 64,000 people play ITM. (40 ^ 3 = 64,000)
So those numbers are just semi-informed guesses... there are about 40,000 members of this website. Some of them probably aren't players. But there's a multitude of players out there that don't pay attention to this website too...
But I agree with No Cause For Alarm. With the social aspects of this music, it would probably be difficult to find anyone who has been playing for more than, say, a year, that has a higher than 3 number to any other player.
Pete
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Actually, this phenomenon was demonstrated nicely for us last night at our session. A young lad from Gorteen, Co. Sligo wandered in to the pub with some friends for a pint. He saw us playing, and came over for a couple of tunes on a borrowed whistle. We got to talking, and it was quickly determined that he was a '2' from a number of players at the table, even though we had no prior knowledge of him, and it was a chance meeting out of the blue.
That's the nature of the scene, though. And often players will spend an inordinate amount of time talking to you when you first meet to see who you know in common.
Sorry for flooding the thread... It just got my brain going on this fine morning, where I don't have to go to work!
Pete
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
"Let's say the average player of ITM has played with 40 different people (some of us have played with hundreds or even thousands, but some have only played with 3 or 4"
I think we should also clarify what is meant by "playing with someone".
We seem to have accepted that workshops and tuition don't count but do we mean that it is an explicit agreement or arrangement between one or more musicians, eg within a band, social grouping, a prearranged meeting within a pub etc as opposed to "just happening" to be within the same room or at the same table as the other player?
So, many of us might claim to have played with well known musicians but would they have considered that this was the case? If they remembered who we were even.....
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Don't worry Johnny J - I will always remember meeting you.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I was talking about "well known musicians".....
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Oh, I dunno, I think having played tunes in a session with someone is enough, even if you didn't talk to them...
I have had a couple of instances where a musician will remember having played with me some time before, even though I had never talked to them at the time. (I'm not saying that they didn't remember me as the 'obnoxious banjo player')
But don't you remember the majority of people that you have played with, even if it was across the room in a crowded pub? Even if you never knew their names? I'm not saying that if I played with you in a session once a couple years ago that I would recognize you on the street, or anything, but if I ran into you in a session, I would probably remember having played with you before.
Pete
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
There is one, and only one, person with a "Kevin Burke" number of 0. I don't whether he is a member of this forum.
My KB number is 2.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Why complicate things? What is the difference between me playing at A SESSION with Molloy, Keenan, Burke, McGoldrick and playing at a SESSION with JfiddlerH? You are playing at a session.
Liam Og was different, that was on stage at a gig.
So when all of these people claim to have played with me, are they name dropping? I already know JfiddlerH is.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
So...being numer 0 means that you are actually Kevin Burke??
Funny thread...I played with so many people that I think I may be a #2...but not sure
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by VOKEPASA
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Vokepasa, yep, you've got it in 1.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Well....I am so old that I can remember when young Kevin was regarded as a bit of a tearaway,,,,,,I am a 2, as I've played a gig with Jim Younger, who worked with Kevin in a trio in the late'60's/early '70s'.
Of course, this being The Session, sessions count the same as gigs, but if we had a seperate rating for sessions then I wouldn't be able to count it.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
This really does show what a small world it is. If we are all pretty much either 1, 2 or 3 with KB, then we are close to the same with each other. There's some beauty in that. Glad to know you.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Eliot
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Heh, Eliot, that's what Kevin said when he taught me tunes. He'd tell me who he learned a tune from and said I was joining that circle of people by learning the tune from him.
When I think about it, it totally floors me that in this respect I am just a 2 from folks like Bobby Casey, Paddy O'Brien, Junior Crehan, and Martin Rochford!
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Heck, Eliot, after reading more about you, you should be able to do a much more in-depth statistical analysis of the relationships within the Irish Music scene than we've done in this thread!
If we could just figure out a way to gamble on the outcome somehow, you could probably get paid for it too!
I really enjoy the social aspect of the music. We're a very small subset of the population, spread far and wide around the world. But the music, by nature, makes it a fairly tight-knit group (even when we're bickering back and forth on an online discussion forum).
Pete
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Glad we're such a brotherhood/sisterhood (siblinghood?).
We're all 1.
Om
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
The majority of "big name" Irish traditional musicians are down to earth and do not see themselves as an elite, nor as superstars, so name dropping does not come into it.
There can be awkward moments. In Molloys a couple of weeks ago Matt kept calling for applause for "the maestro", which was obviously me, but Carlos kept getting up and bowing to the crowd. A language thing I suspect.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Well, I'm a 1 but only because he dropped in at our local session (Lamb at Oxenhope) when visiting his mother in Keighley. It was a slightly embarrassing moment for me, as we have a local catch phrase in our session - we often greet good players who we haven't seen for a few weeks by saying "right then, play something fantastic" as soon as they sit down - before I knew it, the words just popped out! He took it very well and played Lord Gordon, we went on to have a lovely session of "ordinary" tunes but so beautifully played it made you want to go back and re-learn them.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Lynn W
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
A 2 by multiple routes.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
LOL bliss. But by now you must be accustomed to others stealing your bows....
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Doesn't matter, I don't play the fiddle.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
(I *did* see that one coming....)
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I always knew you liked to play the straight man.
# Posted on September 3rd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
i'm a 2. and it isn't name-dropping. sociologists have a name for this phenom, but i can't remember what it is. the kevin bacon-kevin burke equiv is hilarious, though.
# Posted on September 4th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I'm beginning to think that almost everyone here is a 1 or 2, with just a smattering of 3's. And I bet most of those 3's don't know that they are really 2's.
# Posted on September 4th 2007 by Eliot
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
bodhran bliss how many different keys can you play in.or are
you limited. which source do you get your tunes from? How many slow airs have you got?Do you use a digital tuner?
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by gooseinthenettles
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
bodhran bliss how many different keys can you play in.or are
you limited. which source do you get your tunes from? How many slow airs have you got?Do you use a digital tuner?
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by gooseinthenettles
Gosh, Touchy aren't we. But let's give it a try.
Keys: At present on harmonica I have 7 of them in different keys, so that would be seven.
On Whistle it would be the same, 7 whistles, 7 keys.
On Mandolin it is harder. You have to put your fingers in different places, so I would say 5 with some cofidence, and a few others by trial and error. Having played purely by ear helps in this respect.
Source of tunes. From my ears, I hear them, at sessions, on CD, LP, tape, youtube, whatever.
A digital tuner? Most certainly, I like to play instead of mess about all night re-tuning, you know the old "tuning after every tune bit" that "ear posers" do?
Am I the best bodhran player in the world as well as all of this? Well, no-one actually likes to say categorically that they are the best, but.......
Am I limited? Certainly not in this discussion.
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Good one, oh blissful one! You seem to have discovered the "key" to success!!!!
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Oh, and I am definitely a two by way of Johnny Cunningham, and probably would find that I am a one if I asked enough people I play with. And because of the many festivals and events that mix musicians from around the world, as far as members of The Session are concerned, I would be surprised if many of us were more than twos or threes to each other, it is a small world!!!!
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
It is indeed a small world. I know 2 folk who know 'sts' for example. I have met a guy who knows 'Phantom' and the San Francisco session crowd and I am sure there are plenty of others.
There are of course the small band of folk that use this site that I know anyway. Anyway don't we all know each other - through Kevin Burke - anyway?!
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Turns out I am playing with Donal O'Connor and McSherry who are famous, and maybe better. Than Kevin obviously, not better than me.
# Posted on September 5th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Oh, I left out my forte, the slow airs above. I know about 783 on the mandolin.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Ah, sadly I'm a distant "7" when it comes to bodhran bliss....
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
How do you know? I could be that person sitting in the corner.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Now for a REAL challenge - what's your Michael Coleman number? I reckon there are quite a few "twos" around in the NYC area.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by Hup
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Challenge? Nah, that's not a challenge. What's your O'Carolan number? Now that's a challenge.
(My Coleman number would be a 3.)
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
LoL, bliss, sorry but we play in a round pub.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Call me old fasioned, but I'm a #1 fan of O'Carolyn!
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by morning star
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
fashioned I mean
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by morning star
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
O'Carolyn?
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by brianc
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I'll be damned........ I've always spelled him wrong.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by morning star
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Can't wait to see what you've done with the "Turloch" part....
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by Will Harmon
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
Somebody knows me?
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
bodhran blister
have you ever seen a fiddle player use 7 fiddles for 7different keys. 7 whistles in different keys same fingering?come on
you can play in one key,same as guitar bangers using a capo.
Get youself a proper instrument and stop all the crap you,re
spreading.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by gooseinthenettles
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
And there was me trying to be helpful. By the way, a capo changes the key on a guitar.
Bur perhaps more pertinent, which "crap" instrument do you object to? Which of these is not a "proper" instrument?
Whistle, mandolin, harmonica, guitar, banjo, or bodhran?
And as I seek guidance, could I ask what is a "proper" instrument.
Thanks for being so helpful.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
A capo changes key on a guitar,but not finger shapes.
A proper instrument is 1whistle, 1 mandolin without capo, 1banjo,1fiddle, 1 melodion,1 cocert flute, 1concertina,1 pipes,
1 guitar without strings(in ITM that is) 1 goatskin without a beater,Where is your sense of humour?
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by gooseinthenettles
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
A capo changes key on a guitar,but not finger shapes.
Thanks, just goes to show you're never too old to learn.
And no-one surely uses a capo on a mandolin. I would have thought that physically impossible. You would need very thin fingers.
Where is my sense of humour? Ah, you were being amusing. Of course, laugh, laugh, yes, very good.
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
I think that anyone who has played in the sessions at the Lark Camp (California) would have a KB number of 2, as a number of people at the camp have played with Kevin. By those numerous routes I'm a 2.
I attended a Kevin Burke workshop that sort of degenerated into a session at the end- but I can't remember if I ended up playing at all, or just listened.
# Posted on September 8th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
My kid had a lesson with him recently. I observed a modest man - a very kind, ecouraging person. I just hope we can afford to continue the lessons...kinda spendy.
I can't see any rock star of that level giving private lessons to youngsters. Young musicians need someone like Burke to help them along.
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by harpgal
Re: Your "Kevin Burke" number
It took me this long to figure this one out, because I'm math-challenged, but I'm a definite 47. I dated a girl once, whose older brother lived in a house built by a guy whose next-door neighbor once drove across town to deliver a refrigerator to an old widow whose granddaughter taught school in a classroom that included a student whose family's postman who once mistakenly dropped a letter off at the home of a fellow who...
# Posted on September 14th 2007 by cuchulain54