Is there a kind soul who might help a non-musician properly describe an Irish button accordion? There is no one in my area who plays or knows anything about this instrument that I have been able to find to help me. I will be marketing a Bardoni & Bartoli Irish button accordion on Ebay as part of an estate that I'm selling on consignment for a family...and I want to do it justice and provide the accurate and correct information that a potential buyer/musician would want to know about it. I agree that many descriptions are horrible and would like to do better! I don't even know enough to determine the tuning. What info should I provide in the description? What photos are critical? Would a simple sound clip of the individual accordion keys during push/pull be helpful? I would sincerely appreciate any help you folks are willing to give! Times like these make me wish I'd stuck with my childhood music lessons!
I'm assuming that you haven't a clue about accordions so apologies if you find the following too confusing. It's the only way I can think of helping you.
Place the instrument on your knee. The side with the most buttons should be at your right hand. That's called the treble side and that is where the melody of the tune is played.
The other side where your left hand is, will usually have fewer buttons. They are the bass notes and their job is to accompany the melody by playing chords.
State if the instrument has one or two row of buttons on the treble side.
If you get a different note on each button by moving the bellows in and out then you describe the instrument as a diatonic accordion. The bellows is the bit in the middle that folds in or opens out like a fan between the two sides of the box.
Count the number of buttons on each row. If you have two rows on the 'treble side', you may have 11 buttons on the outside row and 10 buttons on the inside row. That would be described as a 21 button diatonic accordion. Count the buttons on the bass side. State the number of bass buttons.
Each row of buttons on the treble side is tuned in a certain way and it is something that a possible buyer will be wanting to know. To find that out you will need the help of somebody who can pick out a scale on a keyboard or on an instrument that is known to be 'In Tune' Not stringed instruments, as they have to be tuned by the musician. On the inside row of a 21 button box, the third button from your chin should be pressed with the bellows coming inwards. Should that give you the note C, then the whole row is now deemed to be tuned in C. If that note is a D, then the row is tuned in D etc etc. Then do the same with the outside row only this time use the fourth button from your chin. If the press button gives you B then the row is tuned in B and you state that.
Your advert could now read something like this
For Sale
A Bardoni /Bartoli 2 row diatonic button accordion. 8 Bass
Tuned B and C
.
.....................
If the accordion is a 'two row' you might also get the following tunings. 'D and D sharp' or 'C sharp and D' or 'C and C sharp' or even 'D and G'
State whatever the row is tuned in.
Lastly a picture of the box is a big help to the customer.
Good Luck
Please don't post queries about button accordions on concertina.net, as was suggested above ... instead, post them on melodeon.net. Although eBay sellers often list button accordions as concertinas, they're not. While there are a fair number of people on concertina.net who play both concertinas and accordions, you'll be better off investing your online time on melodeon.net, I think.
Good advice from Free Reed.
You will find several posts on the web about instruments from this maker by Googling "Baldoni Bartoli" (putting the two words inside double quotation marks). Note that it's an "L," not an "R," in the first word.
Finally, if you tell us where you are, perhaps someone here can suggest a knowledgeable shop in your area ... if not for a formal appraisal, then for a quick determination of what it is and perhaps a guesstimate of its worth.
Many thanks to you all! Especially Free Reed for the clear and straightforward advice! I'm going to give it a try and determine the tuning before listing it on Ebay. Also, I'm going to include a short video clip on the Ebay auction listing that demonstrates the tuning and sound as best I can. My face is red about the misspelled name!!! I'll also post a link to my Ebay store
on melodeon.net once I have it listed later this week, so that interested folks there can take a look.
I can't express how grateful I am for your assistance!
Hey Free Reed! I have figured out that this is a 15 button (10 on outside row, 5 on inside row) diatonic. You sent great instructions on how to determine the tuning of a 21 button...do you still use the same two keys (third from chin on the inside row and fourth from the chin on the outside row) on a 15 button as you would on a 21 button?? There are 4 chord buttons on the other side of the accordion.
I have a friend with an intune piano who is going to help me with this.
Thanks again!
Technically a one row instrument with extra buttons on an inner row
sometimes called a 1 1/2 row
but more often than not simply a D/C# or D/Accidentals
Limited audience as that style is not often played
but has a devoted following of die hards
forget trying to get a "key" out of the inner row...
what is important is that the outer row is in "D"
if so it is an "irish" tunerd box.. though mostly found in America
try the third button down on the outer row
push the button in and depress the bellows
keep your finger on this button and pull out
repeat on button 4 and button 5
then on button six pull and then push
this should give you the D scale ( or some other scale)
compare the third note push with a key on the piano or a guitar tuner
Oh and don;t be alarmed if your accordion is not perfectly tuned to the piano... close is good
Thanks Jeff! I went ahead and listed the accordion on Ebay..take a look at it in my Ebay Store: http://stores.ebay.com/PRAIRIE-WIND-ANTIQUES
I made a video of it but haven't been successful in adding it to the listing yet. If you send me a question through the Ebay listing, I can send the clip directly to you. Then we can see if it is in D/C# as you think...
Thanks for responding! Liane
Several people who wrote and asked for the video clip wrote back to say it was tuned in D/C#. One person even sent step by step instructions for playing a scale and confirming the tuning. I took the accordeon to a music store today and with a bit of assistance and a fine quality in tune piano, confirmed that the note played by the third button down on the outside row, on the "push" of the bellows, is a "D". Playing down the scale (3rd button push/pull; 4th button push/pull; 5th button push pull; 6th button pull push) has the 6th button playing a C# on the "pull" of the bellows. One of the keys on the inside row also plays the same C# on the "push" of the bellows. I believe this would indicate a D/C# tuning. Thanks, Jeff, for the basic tutorial and everyone else for the great information you sent!
Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Is there a kind soul who might help a non-musician properly describe an Irish button accordion? There is no one in my area who plays or knows anything about this instrument that I have been able to find to help me. I will be marketing a Bardoni & Bartoli Irish button accordion on Ebay as part of an estate that I'm selling on consignment for a family...and I want to do it justice and provide the accurate and correct information that a potential buyer/musician would want to know about it. I agree that many descriptions are horrible and would like to do better! I don't even know enough to determine the tuning. What info should I provide in the description? What photos are critical? Would a simple sound clip of the individual accordion keys during push/pull be helpful? I would sincerely appreciate any help you folks are willing to give! Times like these make me wish I'd stuck with my childhood music lessons!
# Posted on September 1st 2007 by The Badger
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
You might post a question on the forum at
http://www.concertina.net/
I do not know accordions but I think you have
a Baldoni (rather than Bardoni)
# Posted on September 1st 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
I'm assuming that you haven't a clue about accordions so apologies if you find the following too confusing. It's the only way I can think of helping you.
Place the instrument on your knee. The side with the most buttons should be at your right hand. That's called the treble side and that is where the melody of the tune is played.
The other side where your left hand is, will usually have fewer buttons. They are the bass notes and their job is to accompany the melody by playing chords.
State if the instrument has one or two row of buttons on the treble side.
If you get a different note on each button by moving the bellows in and out then you describe the instrument as a diatonic accordion. The bellows is the bit in the middle that folds in or opens out like a fan between the two sides of the box.
Count the number of buttons on each row. If you have two rows on the 'treble side', you may have 11 buttons on the outside row and 10 buttons on the inside row. That would be described as a 21 button diatonic accordion. Count the buttons on the bass side. State the number of bass buttons.
Each row of buttons on the treble side is tuned in a certain way and it is something that a possible buyer will be wanting to know. To find that out you will need the help of somebody who can pick out a scale on a keyboard or on an instrument that is known to be 'In Tune' Not stringed instruments, as they have to be tuned by the musician. On the inside row of a 21 button box, the third button from your chin should be pressed with the bellows coming inwards. Should that give you the note C, then the whole row is now deemed to be tuned in C. If that note is a D, then the row is tuned in D etc etc. Then do the same with the outside row only this time use the fourth button from your chin. If the press button gives you B then the row is tuned in B and you state that.
Your advert could now read something like this
For Sale
A Bardoni /Bartoli 2 row diatonic button accordion. 8 Bass
Tuned B and C
.
.....................
If the accordion is a 'two row' you might also get the following tunings. 'D and D sharp' or 'C sharp and D' or 'C and C sharp' or even 'D and G'
State whatever the row is tuned in.
Lastly a picture of the box is a big help to the customer.
Good Luck
# Posted on September 1st 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
It could even be a D/C# (most likely built in the 50s) if you are somewhere in the Boston/New York area.
# Posted on September 1st 2007 by pennhorse
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Please don't post queries about button accordions on concertina.net, as was suggested above ... instead, post them on melodeon.net. Although eBay sellers often list button accordions as concertinas, they're not. While there are a fair number of people on concertina.net who play both concertinas and accordions, you'll be better off investing your online time on melodeon.net, I think.
Good advice from Free Reed.
You will find several posts on the web about instruments from this maker by Googling "Baldoni Bartoli" (putting the two words inside double quotation marks). Note that it's an "L," not an "R," in the first word.
Finally, if you tell us where you are, perhaps someone here can suggest a knowledgeable shop in your area ... if not for a formal appraisal, then for a quick determination of what it is and perhaps a guesstimate of its worth.
# Posted on September 1st 2007 by boxist
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Many thanks to you all! Especially Free Reed for the clear and straightforward advice! I'm going to give it a try and determine the tuning before listing it on Ebay. Also, I'm going to include a short video clip on the Ebay auction listing that demonstrates the tuning and sound as best I can. My face is red about the misspelled name!!! I'll also post a link to my Ebay store
http://stores.ebay.com/PRAIRIE-WIND-ANTIQUES
on melodeon.net once I have it listed later this week, so that interested folks there can take a look.
I can't express how grateful I am for your assistance!
# Posted on September 2nd 2007 by The Badger
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Hey Free Reed! I have figured out that this is a 15 button (10 on outside row, 5 on inside row) diatonic. You sent great instructions on how to determine the tuning of a 21 button...do you still use the same two keys (third from chin on the inside row and fourth from the chin on the outside row) on a 15 button as you would on a 21 button?? There are 4 chord buttons on the other side of the accordion.
I have a friend with an intune piano who is going to help me with this.
Thanks again!
# Posted on September 6th 2007 by The Badger
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
I would bet on this one
It's a D/C#
Technically a one row instrument with extra buttons on an inner row
sometimes called a 1 1/2 row
but more often than not simply a D/C# or D/Accidentals
Limited audience as that style is not often played
but has a devoted following of die hards
forget trying to get a "key" out of the inner row...
what is important is that the outer row is in "D"
if so it is an "irish" tunerd box.. though mostly found in America
try the third button down on the outer row
push the button in and depress the bellows
keep your finger on this button and pull out
repeat on button 4 and button 5
then on button six pull and then push
this should give you the D scale ( or some other scale)
compare the third note push with a key on the piano or a guitar tuner
Oh and don;t be alarmed if your accordion is not perfectly tuned to the piano... close is good
# Posted on September 8th 2007 by Jeff H
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Thanks Jeff! I went ahead and listed the accordion on Ebay..take a look at it in my Ebay Store:
http://stores.ebay.com/PRAIRIE-WIND-ANTIQUES
I made a video of it but haven't been successful in adding it to the listing yet. If you send me a question through the Ebay listing, I can send the clip directly to you. Then we can see if it is in D/C# as you think...
Thanks for responding! Liane
# Posted on September 11th 2007 by The Badger
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
Several people who wrote and asked for the video clip wrote back to say it was tuned in D/C#. One person even sent step by step instructions for playing a scale and confirming the tuning. I took the accordeon to a music store today and with a bit of assistance and a fine quality in tune piano, confirmed that the note played by the third button down on the outside row, on the "push" of the bellows, is a "D". Playing down the scale (3rd button push/pull; 4th button push/pull; 5th button push pull; 6th button pull push) has the 6th button playing a C# on the "pull" of the bellows. One of the keys on the inside row also plays the same C# on the "push" of the bellows. I believe this would indicate a D/C# tuning. Thanks, Jeff, for the basic tutorial and everyone else for the great information you sent!
# Posted on September 13th 2007 by The Badger
Re: Non-Musician Needs Help with Button Accordion
If I had only bid higher...
# Posted on August 28th 2008 by hibbs21