I'm sure this topic has been raised before I came along, but the discussion threads prompted by Noah, the would-be-celtic-sax-player prompt me to ask the question. More as a point of comparison to the sessions I have been to here (down under) than to seek any sort of definitive "rule". My friend (a fiddler) and I (guitar) have worked hard to get medleys of tunes and songs together (as commonly heard on ITM recordings) which have been very well recieved at sessions. Also the singing of acapella ballads goes down well. Is this considered kosher in your collective session experiences?
In my experience everything is kosher (unless you live near Will in Montana of course) !!!!!!!! Songs are the lifeblood of many sessions, and are generally more popular with [non-playing] listeners than the tunes. However, as a non singer myself I prefer if the singer mixes some accompanied songs with the unaccompanied ones ( does acapella have something to do with hand clapping?) Have you considered intraducing a Sax?
I have recently been advocating that my local session allows the occasional song at sessions so the musicians can then stand in the middle of the room and talk loudly to people in all four corners.
Now where have I seen singers do that?
Gerry - I'll be more serious this time. I suspect most people here would agree that songs are an integral component of a good session. Of course the better they're done, the better they're received. Seems like you and your mate have made a big effort to get stuff together, to a high level of profficiency.
As you know, most of the people who hang out here are tune -playing or -backing musicians, so much of the discussions go round and round about whether the Ethiopian Lyre or the Kit would be acceptable in a session, or whether Waltzes or Cotillions or Rants would be also.
Songs, well delivered, are great at a session as a break from jigs reels etc. But the usual dynamics dictate that these are instrumental musical gatherings, so the songs are, by default, secondary to the tunes. This, though, depends on the session. You can get singers-only sessions (and I don't mean sean nos singing, which has its own place) - these feature at fleadhs. You can get sessions where singers take up about 50% of the musical space/time, and others only 5-10%.
If you're good enough, and your stuff fits in well, you can ensure that you increase your %age spot time as you go.
If you're doing well-rehearsed a capella stuff, maybe you want to get yourself bookings at folk clubs, if such a network exists in Australia, and from the time I was there, I'm sure that must be the case.
Or are you utilising the informal atmosphere of a session to get exposure before you move up(?) to folk clubs?
There's no better way to perform than among your peers.
Frank's almost right, kosher food is available here in Montana, but the dietary laws of Judaism have a relatively small following. We're mostly Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians, and Catholics.
As for songs at sessions, we do 'em all the time here. In fact, last night we were regaled in sean nos by a visitor from Dublin who must know a thousand songs. The songs went on till 2 am, and I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Our regular singers do everything from sean nos to old ballads with accompaniment to newer material learned off cds or composed locally. And we usually get 6-10 songs in a 2.5 hour session.
Will, of course I'm "almost " right, how else do you think I ended up being an acompanist! By the way we only get second-hand smoke and the odd beer. All this talk of food is making me hungry.
Most sessions I know from time to time someone (lady or man) in between some sets of tunes starts singing a sean nos without any backing or asks for help to sing a beautiful ballad. If that would not occur I would miss it.
Most traditional music sessions I know from time to time someone in between some sets of tunes starts singing something out of tradition, with the book open, without any command of attention (stage prescence, but we ain't on stage), that no-one has ever heard before, that appeals to the lowest denominator (Irish Rover, Danny Boy, Cockles and Mussels, Leaving of Liverpool - you will hear them all on St Pats), that is not interesting or amusing, that has too many verses and then wonders why no one else joins in.
If the song is well known, has a decent chorus and most of the room joins in, no-one can complain - if they don't join in or the room doesn't go quiet, ask yourself why.
We get a bit of singing at our sessions. Mostly traditional songs w/chorus and the occasional ballad. I can't think of an instance where the boundries of propriety even got tweaked. By the players, that is. We're there to crank out tunes and plenty of them. When someone chooses to raise their voice in song we could:
A- listen, especially if it's a good'un
B- Join in, where appropriate
C- Save the barmaid a trip over to our table, if all else fails.
Let's see what happens on the Sunday before St. Pats. Do you suppose we could send that drunken woman, who insists upon singing *Danny Boy* and then kissing "each of the boys in the *Band,*" off to another session?
Songs are great, but allowing singers to join in the fun can open a whole can of worms. I mean, EVERYBODY thinks they can sing a song, even when they can't carry a tune in a bucket. If you are surrounded by a strong cadre of singers, I'm sure the quality can be kept up.
BTW, send the woman kissing all the band members over here. I'll work for smooches!
Allow me to elaborate, Caoimghgin. I'm as eager as the next lecher to collect my tips from puckered lips. But this woman was frightening. Her breath preceded her approach by several feet and smelled as though she'd imbibed paint remover! If our chain-smoking squeeze box player hadn't stifeled his cigarette we would have witnessed spontainous human combustion.
So, if all this hasn't put you off and hope springs eternal, I hear tell that this woman really gets around. Look for her at a session near you.
Kevin, "Everybody" is perhaps too all-inclusive. I, for one, can't sing, know I can't sing, and so don't sing out of consideration to my fellow humans!
Well, perhaps you shouldn't send her over quite yet Gra5ity. If you're half as lecherous as I am, then that means that I'm twice as lecherous as you, but it doesn't mean us lechers are without any standards at all!
I'll agree that 'Everybody' was a bit too inclusive, but if you've heard some singing sessions I've heard, 'everybody' (as meaning every living person) would seem a word too generous! I'd certainly count you among the living trevor, as well as among the considerate!
Personally, I can hardly croak out a few notes myself but I have been seen joining in a singing session just for the fun of singing, nevermind the awful din we created by doing it. It's especially bad when you look over and hear people you consider to be not that much better than yourself and you say 'What the hell'. Anyway, my only point is that a stong group of singers would be a welcome thing and the crowd usually connects well with the singers rather than the tune players.
Good singers are just as welcome as good players, and I love to hear songs and sing songs that are traditional and rarely heard. The gems that are not recorded on popular CDs are often the ones that are most traditional. It thrills my heart to see sean nos singing being carried on and spreading to new locations.
Tedious singers who do the same 2 songs at every weekly sessions are one reason I have dropped a session. One can only tolerate 'Fields of Athenry' done theatrically so many times before you run shrieking for the hills or slit your wrists. Combine 5 of those kinds of singers at one session and I'd ratherbe chained to a dentist's drill.
But once in a while someone will show up at a session and OMG they're good, and I could listen to them for the rest of the night.
Come on guys - it cuts both ways! I've been in more sessions than I can count where there are tune players are playing a) out of tune, b) in the wrong key and especially irritatingly, c) couldn't keep time to save their lives.... and how many times can you listen to a good tune being crucified by someone who can't play for nuts, not to put too fine a point on it "without running shrieking for the hills"! Or to the same dreary old chestnuts cranked out ad nauseum. (Known as 'duck tunes' in our circle... you know rhymes with ......)
As for the talking, I've also sat in a good few session where the tune players will blithely yabber on - IN the circle, mind you - while someone is singing perhaps the one and only song of the night. At least you guys have strength in numbers!
Or where almost the entire population of the circle deserted and went to the bar, in an obvious display of their distate for such things, and left a singer like a spare prick at a wedding sitting on his own - and he wasn't a bad singer either!
It also is my experience that sometimes those least tolerant of a song at a session can often be also those with pretty average talents musically, but a desperate desire to be among the elite.
I agree there are some who should keep their talents confined to the bathroom with the door closed, but by God they dwell happily in great numbers on both camps!
Songs at sessions?
Songs at sessions?
I'm sure this topic has been raised before I came along, but the discussion threads prompted by Noah, the would-be-celtic-sax-player prompt me to ask the question. More as a point of comparison to the sessions I have been to here (down under) than to seek any sort of definitive "rule". My friend (a fiddler) and I (guitar) have worked hard to get medleys of tunes and songs together (as commonly heard on ITM recordings) which have been very well recieved at sessions. Also the singing of acapella ballads goes down well. Is this considered kosher in your collective session experiences?
Gerry
# Posted on March 10th 2003 by GerryTh
Re: Songs at sessions?
In my experience everything is kosher (unless you live near Will in Montana of course) !!!!!!!!
Songs are the lifeblood of many sessions, and are generally more popular with [non-playing] listeners than the tunes. However, as a non singer myself I prefer if the singer mixes some accompanied songs with the unaccompanied ones ( does acapella have something to do with hand clapping?) Have you considered intraducing a Sax?
# Posted on March 10th 2003 by Backer
Re: Songs at sessions?
I have recently been advocating that my local session allows the occasional song at sessions so the musicians can then stand in the middle of the room and talk loudly to people in all four corners.
Now where have I seen singers do that?
# Posted on March 11th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: Songs at sessions?
A Choir of Singers? - sorry wrong thread.
# Posted on March 11th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Songs at sessions?
Gerry - I'll be more serious this time. I suspect most people here would agree that songs are an integral component of a good session. Of course the better they're done, the better they're received. Seems like you and your mate have made a big effort to get stuff together, to a high level of profficiency.
As you know, most of the people who hang out here are tune -playing or -backing musicians, so much of the discussions go round and round about whether the Ethiopian Lyre or the Kit would be acceptable in a session, or whether Waltzes or Cotillions or Rants would be also.
Songs, well delivered, are great at a session as a break from jigs reels etc. But the usual dynamics dictate that these are instrumental musical gatherings, so the songs are, by default, secondary to the tunes. This, though, depends on the session. You can get singers-only sessions (and I don't mean sean nos singing, which has its own place) - these feature at fleadhs. You can get sessions where singers take up about 50% of the musical space/time, and others only 5-10%.
If you're good enough, and your stuff fits in well, you can ensure that you increase your %age spot time as you go.
If you're doing well-rehearsed a capella stuff, maybe you want to get yourself bookings at folk clubs, if such a network exists in Australia, and from the time I was there, I'm sure that must be the case.
Or are you utilising the informal atmosphere of a session to get exposure before you move up(?) to folk clubs?
There's no better way to perform than among your peers.
# Posted on March 12th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Songs at sessions?
Frank's almost right, kosher food is available here in Montana, but the dietary laws of Judaism have a relatively small following. We're mostly Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians, and Catholics.
As for songs at sessions, we do 'em all the time here. In fact, last night we were regaled in sean nos by a visitor from Dublin who must know a thousand songs. The songs went on till 2 am, and I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
Our regular singers do everything from sean nos to old ballads with accompaniment to newer material learned off cds or composed locally. And we usually get 6-10 songs in a 2.5 hour session.
# Posted on March 12th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Songs at sessions?
Will, of course I'm "almost " right, how else do you think I ended up being an acompanist! By the way we only get second-hand smoke and the odd beer. All this talk of food is making me hungry.
# Posted on March 13th 2003 by Backer
Re: Songs at sessions?
Most sessions I know from time to time someone (lady or man) in between some sets of tunes starts singing a sean nos without any backing or asks for help to sing a beautiful ballad. If that would not occur I would miss it.
# Posted on March 13th 2003 by crannog
Re: Songs at sessions?
Most traditional music sessions I know from time to time someone in between some sets of tunes starts singing something out of tradition, with the book open, without any command of attention (stage prescence, but we ain't on stage), that no-one has ever heard before, that appeals to the lowest denominator (Irish Rover, Danny Boy, Cockles and Mussels, Leaving of Liverpool - you will hear them all on St Pats), that is not interesting or amusing, that has too many verses and then wonders why no one else joins in.
If the song is well known, has a decent chorus and most of the room joins in, no-one can complain - if they don't join in or the room doesn't go quiet, ask yourself why.
# Posted on March 13th 2003 by geoffwright
Re: Songs at sessions?
We get a bit of singing at our sessions. Mostly traditional songs w/chorus and the occasional ballad. I can't think of an instance where the boundries of propriety even got tweaked. By the players, that is. We're there to crank out tunes and plenty of them. When someone chooses to raise their voice in song we could:
A- listen, especially if it's a good'un
B- Join in, where appropriate
C- Save the barmaid a trip over to our table, if all else fails.
Let's see what happens on the Sunday before St. Pats. Do you suppose we could send that drunken woman, who insists upon singing *Danny Boy* and then kissing "each of the boys in the *Band,*" off to another session?
# Posted on March 14th 2003 by Gra5ity
Re: Songs at sessions?
Songs are great, but allowing singers to join in the fun can open a whole can of worms. I mean, EVERYBODY thinks they can sing a song, even when they can't carry a tune in a bucket. If you are surrounded by a strong cadre of singers, I'm sure the quality can be kept up.
BTW, send the woman kissing all the band members over here. I'll work for smooches!
# Posted on March 14th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Songs at sessions?
Allow me to elaborate, Caoimghgin. I'm as eager as the next lecher to collect my tips from puckered lips. But this woman was frightening. Her breath preceded her approach by several feet and smelled as though she'd imbibed paint remover! If our chain-smoking squeeze box player hadn't stifeled his cigarette we would have witnessed spontainous human combustion.
So, if all this hasn't put you off and hope springs eternal, I hear tell that this woman really gets around. Look for her at a session near you.
Check out:
http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1402
about 10 posts up from the reply box.
Enjoy and happy St. Pats,
Gra5ity
# Posted on March 14th 2003 by Gra5ity
Re: Songs at sessions?
Kevin, "Everybody" is perhaps too all-inclusive. I, for one, can't sing, know I can't sing, and so don't sing out of consideration to my fellow humans!
# Posted on March 14th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Songs at sessions?
Well, perhaps you shouldn't send her over quite yet Gra5ity. If you're half as lecherous as I am, then that means that I'm twice as lecherous as you, but it doesn't mean us lechers are without any standards at all!
I'll agree that 'Everybody' was a bit too inclusive, but if you've heard some singing sessions I've heard, 'everybody' (as meaning every living person) would seem a word too generous! I'd certainly count you among the living trevor, as well as among the considerate!
Personally, I can hardly croak out a few notes myself but I have been seen joining in a singing session just for the fun of singing, nevermind the awful din we created by doing it. It's especially bad when you look over and hear people you consider to be not that much better than yourself and you say 'What the hell'. Anyway, my only point is that a stong group of singers would be a welcome thing and the crowd usually connects well with the singers rather than the tune players.
# Posted on March 15th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Songs at sessions?
Good singers are just as welcome as good players, and I love to hear songs and sing songs that are traditional and rarely heard. The gems that are not recorded on popular CDs are often the ones that are most traditional. It thrills my heart to see sean nos singing being carried on and spreading to new locations.
# Posted on March 16th 2003 by aliceflynn
Re: Songs at sessions?
Tedious singers who do the same 2 songs at every weekly sessions are one reason I have dropped a session. One can only tolerate 'Fields of Athenry' done theatrically so many times before you run shrieking for the hills or slit your wrists. Combine 5 of those kinds of singers at one session and I'd ratherbe chained to a dentist's drill.
But once in a while someone will show up at a session and OMG they're good, and I could listen to them for the rest of the night.
Old and Crotchety Cat,
T
# Posted on March 16th 2003 by Tyghress
Re: Songs at sessions?
Come on guys - it cuts both ways! I've been in more sessions than I can count where there are tune players are playing a) out of tune, b) in the wrong key and especially irritatingly, c) couldn't keep time to save their lives.... and how many times can you listen to a good tune being crucified by someone who can't play for nuts, not to put too fine a point on it "without running shrieking for the hills"! Or to the same dreary old chestnuts cranked out ad nauseum. (Known as 'duck tunes' in our circle... you know rhymes with ......)
As for the talking, I've also sat in a good few session where the tune players will blithely yabber on - IN the circle, mind you - while someone is singing perhaps the one and only song of the night. At least you guys have strength in numbers!
Or where almost the entire population of the circle deserted and went to the bar, in an obvious display of their distate for such things, and left a singer like a spare prick at a wedding sitting on his own - and he wasn't a bad singer either!
It also is my experience that sometimes those least tolerant of a song at a session can often be also those with pretty average talents musically, but a desperate desire to be among the elite.
I agree there are some who should keep their talents confined to the bathroom with the door closed, but by God they dwell happily in great numbers on both camps!
# Posted on January 28th 2004 by triantan