The Session >> Discussions >> Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
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Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Some of my comrades in guitar picking on this site have inquired about my recent discoveries vis a vis playing spanish guitar in the session scenario. So this is for you.
I do not profess to be an aficionado of Manouche but I was enlightened to the techniques when I was lucky enough to play
in a gypsy outfit for a while. It was shortlived but I was captivated by the technical approach these people had to get the guitar to leap out above the other instruments.
Yes, the Selmer style guitar is not the spanish guitar and vice versa but the instruments are very similar in the respect that
they are very light instruments in weight and as most luthiers
agree , light means loud. They are also similar in the fact that
string tension is reasonably light compared to the conventional
dreadnaught or jumbo. You have to own a quality spanish guitar though.
The pick I use is a Wegen Fatone and it comes in a bit over
5mm thick. ( not 6mm , sorry for the bum steer OMITW)
The principal of the technique is to have the wrist arched not unlike a classical player, hand relaxed, hanging, not touching
the guitar at all and letting the weight of the hand, pivoting from the wrist, make the pick fall onto the string. Like a piano hammer except following through and coming to rest on the next string. Of course sometimes you can't do this at speed, but to have the principle lurking at the back of your "picking" is nice. Or should I say "hammering".
One thing I can't personally do in the Manouche style
is agree with their tradition of only crossing to adjacent strings,
whether higher or lower , only with a down stroke. I'll put that one in the too hard basket.
One more point . I reckon you pick back towards the bridge
at the area about 1/2 inch before it becomes a koto.
Just type in Wegen Guitar Picks and you'll find them.
Trad. Thanks for the correspondence. The spanish guitar is
more mellow, rounder but definitely not softer.
You'll get to love the ping.
Regards, chuneboi.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Interesting... I am not familiar with Manouche, but do play fingerstyle for this music, and have for over 30 years (started as a kid playing much longer than that), and closely stick with the tunes, very little chording.
I do use a thumb pick and fingernails, but what is really intersting is your mention of a lightweight guitar and less string tension. I build my own guitars, and they are much lighter and are set up for light strings, little tension, due to the neck set, and as low to the fingerboard as possible without buzzing. I can get some pretty crazy speed going and keep up with just about anyone, due to this ease of playing in good part. They are a smaller body, like an OM size mostly. Just one slightly larger like an M size.
Does your Spanish guitar have the typical classical neck? My hands are small and I find the neck cumbersome and harder to get around. I suppose I can string one of mine up with nylon and see how it does. I have been wanting to do that to play some harp tunes anyway. A hybrid guitar, Spanish body, narrower neck may be required, just changing strings may not do the trick fully.
Doesn't Dennis Cahill usually play a classical guitar with Martin Hayes? I don't recall canyone else playing one.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
hard to pin down... depends on the player, no reason for it to be unheard unmiked. Esp. if they use some sort of picks or even strong fingernails. Most play softly, making it seem it's the instrument. But there are many with great attack and control of the instrument that surely can be heard, both nylon and steel.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Ino Thought it was you. Thanks for the comment and have fun
down the bush.
Trad. I've never really tried any of the others. I just purchased
the one I use from the bandleader who imported a few of the one type. The first one on their list I think is a 2.5mm I think.
I use the 5mm but I,m interested in your verdicts on a thinner one.
Irisnev.
Thumbpick and fingernails are brilliant for Irish music and I am a devotee. With a thumbpick you can get great syncopation
when backing and this can really lift. Also you can change from
backing and dig in and pick the tune with a thumbpick, again, I like the thick ones.
Spanish guitar neck suits me because thats the instrument
that I started on. Yes the neck can be cumbersome.
I have hands like potato farmer so I like all that space. If it is an
issue for you and you're a luthier you could raise your saddle and try using "Argentine " strings on your "OM" or "M". These are the Manouche Strings specifically designed for Manouche guitars, but may work OK on a OM or m with a lively top.
They're steel and nickel or Silver plate (?), very soft to play but work really only on a higher action to get that little bit of extra downward pressure on the bridge. You can only try nylon strings on a steel body but I don't know whether it would be loud enough.
Dennis Cahill does now use a cutaway nylon guitar with Martin Hayes. I saw them 18 months ago. Wow. And what a stage sound.
Ear canal. And who can forget Seamus' rendition of "The Mason's Apron / My Love is in America " on his first solo CD.
I fainted in disbelief.
If any one is unfamiliar with the syle there is a French motion picture called "Swing" available on dvd. It is a lovely fictional story about some gypsy's and their lifestyle and music. It's co star is Schiavello Schmidt and if you want to see the picking technique, this is for you. regards, mr boi.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
HArd to Pin Down... do you strum or fingerpick? I can get very loud with a thumb pick and index fingernail, on a small body (OM type) if need be. Depends on the session of course too. I was recently at one where for a change I could not hear myself at all, but then again neither could the fiddler sitting next to me. There were some major bashers that night and the bar crowd was very noisy.
Anyway, yes, would be interesting to know more about Manouche playing style. Defintiely loose wrists are a must for keeping up with the gang!
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I don't own a "Gypsy" guitar, but I do play some Manouche-ish stuff and I use Wegen picks. For ITM tunes (playing the melody) I generally use a 1.0 Wegen Bluegrass pick. I call the 1.0 BG "the compressor" because of the way it tends to add volume and compress the sound at the same time. Great pick! Highly recommended. I also use the M100 for octave mandolin and a Twin or GP250 for zingy steel string guitar leads. For Backing I almost always use a .73mm Dunlop nylon and occasionally a .60mm when I'm wanting more "flap" from the pick.
When I play live I switch picks often during a set. As Barelli Lagrene says, "my pick is my bow." Makes sense to me
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Hard to Pin... thanks for the colorful description!
It depends on the session I suppose. I am a fingerstyle player but can get too loud if I don't watch it. One of the guitars in particular, it is way too loud, good for playing with pipes or boxes though.
I'd be curious as to the bracing patterns and brace carving on the Gypsy guitars... will try and look it up. I have heard some flamenco players who could get major volume. A light top will vibrate more too. Sometimes scalloping braces though just makes a deeper sound, not louder. The one I built for "loud" doesn't have the scalloped braces, it projects the sound outward, but the top is quite light.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Irisnevins. My brother is a much admired creator of Selmer styled guitars and mandolins ( both A style and Selmer style) in Australia and I will email you his site. I'm sure he would love to help a fellow luthier and artist from America about the bracing.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Chuneboi.... thanks, got it. I'm still learning! Starting way late, but enjoying it. Very tricky and I thankfully have some help from a neighbor on the scary steps like neck sets! Just a teeny fraction on an inch off and it won't play right or intone right, and resetting the neck is a major pain.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Speaking of Spanish.... this article may be of interest. Don't know whether true or not, just came across it. I am of Spanish and Breton descent on my father's side so I found it interesting. Anyway.... bring on the Spanaish guitar!
We're nearly all Celts under the skin
>
> IAN JOHNSTON SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
> The Scotsman - Thu 21 Sep 2006
>
> A MAJOR genetic study of the population of Britain appears to
> have put an end to the idea of the "Celtic fringe" of
> Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
>
> Instead, a research team at Oxford University has found the
> majority of Britons are Celts descended from Spanish tribes
> who began arriving about 7,000 years ago.
>
> Even in England, about 64 per cent of people are descended
> from these Celts, outnumbering the descendants of Anglo-
> Saxons by about three to one.
>
> The proportion of Celts is only slightly higher in Scotland,
> at 73 per cent. Wales is the most Celtic part of mainland
> Britain, with 83 per cent.
>
> Previously it was thought that ancient Britons were Celts who
> came from central Europe, but the genetic connection to
> populations in Spain provides a scientific basis for part of
> the ancient Scots' origin myth.
>
> The Declaration of Arbroath of 1320, following the War of
> Independence against England, tells how the Scots arrived in
> Scotland after they had "dwelt for a long course of time in
> Spain among the most savage tribes".
>
> Professor Bryan Sykes, a human geneticist at Oxford, said the
> myth may have been a "residue" in people's memories of the
> real journey, but added that the majority of people in England
> were the descendants of the same people who sailed across the
> Bay of Biscay.
>
> Prof Sykes divided the population into several groups or
> clans: Oisin for the Celts; Wodan for Anglo-Saxons and Danish
> Vikings; Sigurd for Norse Vikings; Eshu for people who share
> genetic links with people such as the Berbers of North Africa;
> and Re for a farming people who spread to Europe from the
> Middle East.
>
> The study linked the male Y-chromosome to the birthplace of
> paternal grandfathers to try to establish a historic
> distribution pattern. Prof Sykes, a member of the Oisin clan,
> said the Celts had remained predominant in Britain despite
> waves of further migration.
>
> "The overlay of Vikings, Saxons and so on is 20 per cent at
> most. That's even in those parts of England that are nearest
> to the Continent," he said.
>
> "The only exception is Orkney and Shetland, where roughly 40
> per cent are of Viking ancestry."
>
> In Scotland, the majority of people are not actually Scots,
> but Picts. Even in Argyll, the stronghold of the Irish Scots,
> two-thirds of members of the Oisin clan are Pictish Celts.
>
> However, according to the study, the Picts, like the Scots,
> originally came from Spain.
>
> "If one thinks that the English are genetically different from
> the Scots, Irish and Welsh, that's entirely wrong," he said.
>
> "In the 19th century, the idea of Anglo-Saxon superiority was
> very widespread. At the moment, there is a resurgence of
> Celtic identity, which had been trampled on. It's very vibrant
> and obvious at the moment.
>
> "Basically the cornerstone of Celtic identity is that they are
> not English. However, to try to base that, as some do, on an
> idea that is not far beneath the surface that Celtic countries
> are somehow descended from a race of Celts, which the English
> are not, is not right. We are all descended from the same
> people.
>
> "It should dispel any idea of trying to base what is a
> cultural identity on a genetic difference, because there
> really isn't one."
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
my last name by birth being Camarena-Breton (though my father dropped the Breton, his mother's name, here in USA it is listed that way on his original social security card and application), I never grew up feeling especially Celtic, but had this mad love for the music anyway, like it was somehow in my genes. Maybe this explains it. I know maybe only one other Spaniard in the music, in person anyway, I know there are some others. Then there are the Black Irish.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I’ve heard nylon strings on a steel-string body a few times. It sounded a little better than a cigar-box guitar. For Nylon strings, you generally need a thinner top (and back) and lighter bracing to have a chance of projecting much sound. And a different bridge placement.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I agree with Bob about classical strings on the steel string construction, I just didn't say it before in those words because
Iris mentioned that her guitars were of very light construction
anyway. If your a steel string player and you hate the big neck and 50mm at the nut aspect of a Spanish, which I definitely don't hate, but I understand other people who do, the idea of a hybid Spanish guitar neck is brilliant. Of course no truss. Slotted head of course for lightness. Maybe you could cambor
the fretboard like a steel string too if you needed that.
Trad. I'm don't know whether a Selmer style/ Nylon has ever been made. Macciferri started out with the spanish/flamenco
business and the gypsy guitar evolved from that starting point .
Information on that very subject I'm told can be obtained from
this site www.rfcharle.com . Apparently he's the guy that wrote the book on the history from start to the present. Remember too, because of the flat fretboard( on most) and the wide neck/ soft strings that the Gypsy guitar, if its a good on , is very similar in feel to a Spanish anyway.
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Bob...don't hold your breath! On building one anyway!!
I imagine possibly thinning the neck down in back on a classical may do the trick for not so big hands.
A classical, is on the list to build, but first the current OM needs to get done, it's close, and then a 00 14 fret (usually they are 12 fret) is next on the agenda.
I need to be able to stop working and build all day! At school we would do them in ONE week, one gruelling seven day week 10-12 hours a day. No finish on them, in the white, and we did that at home or sent them out.
Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Some of my comrades in guitar picking on this site have inquired about my recent discoveries vis a vis playing spanish guitar in the session scenario. So this is for you.
I do not profess to be an aficionado of Manouche but I was enlightened to the techniques when I was lucky enough to play
in a gypsy outfit for a while. It was shortlived but I was captivated by the technical approach these people had to get the guitar to leap out above the other instruments.
Yes, the Selmer style guitar is not the spanish guitar and vice versa but the instruments are very similar in the respect that
they are very light instruments in weight and as most luthiers
agree , light means loud. They are also similar in the fact that
string tension is reasonably light compared to the conventional
dreadnaught or jumbo. You have to own a quality spanish guitar though.
The pick I use is a Wegen Fatone and it comes in a bit over
5mm thick. ( not 6mm , sorry for the bum steer OMITW)
The principal of the technique is to have the wrist arched not unlike a classical player, hand relaxed, hanging, not touching
the guitar at all and letting the weight of the hand, pivoting from the wrist, make the pick fall onto the string. Like a piano hammer except following through and coming to rest on the next string. Of course sometimes you can't do this at speed, but to have the principle lurking at the back of your "picking" is nice. Or should I say "hammering".
One thing I can't personally do in the Manouche style
is agree with their tradition of only crossing to adjacent strings,
whether higher or lower , only with a down stroke. I'll put that one in the too hard basket.
One more point . I reckon you pick back towards the bridge
at the area about 1/2 inch before it becomes a koto.
Just type in Wegen Guitar Picks and you'll find them.
Trad. Thanks for the correspondence. The spanish guitar is
more mellow, rounder but definitely not softer.
You'll get to love the ping.
Regards, chuneboi.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Steve, you forgot to add "And it sounds great with the box".
It's certainly a style that has a lot of potential with this type of music.
It's also great to follow guitar melodies that even boxes can't always keep up with
Eno
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Interesting... I am not familiar with Manouche, but do play fingerstyle for this music, and have for over 30 years (started as a kid playing much longer than that), and closely stick with the tunes, very little chording.
I do use a thumb pick and fingernails, but what is really intersting is your mention of a lightweight guitar and less string tension. I build my own guitars, and they are much lighter and are set up for light strings, little tension, due to the neck set, and as low to the fingerboard as possible without buzzing. I can get some pretty crazy speed going and keep up with just about anyone, due to this ease of playing in good part. They are a smaller body, like an OM size mostly. Just one slightly larger like an M size.
Does your Spanish guitar have the typical classical neck? My hands are small and I find the neck cumbersome and harder to get around. I suppose I can string one of mine up with nylon and see how it does. I have been wanting to do that to play some harp tunes anyway. A hybrid guitar, Spanish body, narrower neck may be required, just changing strings may not do the trick fully.
Doesn't Dennis Cahill usually play a classical guitar with Martin Hayes? I don't recall canyone else playing one.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I've seen footage of Seamus Egan flat-picking melody lines on a Spanish/nylon string guitar.
Among the four-players in Solas, he can be heard well enough.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
On the recordings I have of Messrs Hayes and Cahill, Dennis is playing steel strings.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I have seen D.Cahill play nylon one time anyway... unless I am totally mistaken.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
hard to pin down... depends on the player, no reason for it to be unheard unmiked. Esp. if they use some sort of picks or even strong fingernails. Most play softly, making it seem it's the instrument. But there are many with great attack and control of the instrument that surely can be heard, both nylon and steel.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Ino Thought it was you. Thanks for the comment and have fun
down the bush.
Trad. I've never really tried any of the others. I just purchased
the one I use from the bandleader who imported a few of the one type. The first one on their list I think is a 2.5mm I think.
I use the 5mm but I,m interested in your verdicts on a thinner one.
Irisnev.
Thumbpick and fingernails are brilliant for Irish music and I am a devotee. With a thumbpick you can get great syncopation
when backing and this can really lift. Also you can change from
backing and dig in and pick the tune with a thumbpick, again, I like the thick ones.
Spanish guitar neck suits me because thats the instrument
that I started on. Yes the neck can be cumbersome.
I have hands like potato farmer so I like all that space. If it is an
issue for you and you're a luthier you could raise your saddle and try using "Argentine " strings on your "OM" or "M". These are the Manouche Strings specifically designed for Manouche guitars, but may work OK on a OM or m with a lively top.
They're steel and nickel or Silver plate (?), very soft to play but work really only on a higher action to get that little bit of extra downward pressure on the bridge. You can only try nylon strings on a steel body but I don't know whether it would be loud enough.
Dennis Cahill does now use a cutaway nylon guitar with Martin Hayes. I saw them 18 months ago. Wow. And what a stage sound.
Ear canal. And who can forget Seamus' rendition of "The Mason's Apron / My Love is in America " on his first solo CD.
I fainted in disbelief.
If any one is unfamiliar with the syle there is a French motion picture called "Swing" available on dvd. It is a lovely fictional story about some gypsy's and their lifestyle and music. It's co star is Schiavello Schmidt and if you want to see the picking technique, this is for you. regards, mr boi.
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
HArd to Pin Down... do you strum or fingerpick? I can get very loud with a thumb pick and index fingernail, on a small body (OM type) if need be. Depends on the session of course too. I was recently at one where for a change I could not hear myself at all, but then again neither could the fiddler sitting next to me. There were some major bashers that night and the bar crowd was very noisy.
Anyway, yes, would be interesting to know more about Manouche playing style. Defintiely loose wrists are a must for keeping up with the gang!
# Posted on August 22nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I don't own a "Gypsy" guitar, but I do play some Manouche-ish stuff and I use Wegen picks. For ITM tunes (playing the melody) I generally use a 1.0 Wegen Bluegrass pick. I call the 1.0 BG "the compressor" because of the way it tends to add volume and compress the sound at the same time. Great pick! Highly recommended. I also use the M100 for octave mandolin and a Twin or GP250 for zingy steel string guitar leads. For Backing I almost always use a .73mm Dunlop nylon and occasionally a .60mm when I'm wanting more "flap" from the pick.
When I play live I switch picks often during a set. As Barelli Lagrene says, "my pick is my bow." Makes sense to me
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by gw
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Trad. I fear you had a naughty time, you fiend. Lift up your hearts with joy for the Spaniard and the auld one whose up for
it! William chunespeare.
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Hard to Pin... thanks for the colorful description!
It depends on the session I suppose. I am a fingerstyle player but can get too loud if I don't watch it. One of the guitars in particular, it is way too loud, good for playing with pipes or boxes though.
I'd be curious as to the bracing patterns and brace carving on the Gypsy guitars... will try and look it up. I have heard some flamenco players who could get major volume. A light top will vibrate more too. Sometimes scalloping braces though just makes a deeper sound, not louder. The one I built for "loud" doesn't have the scalloped braces, it projects the sound outward, but the top is quite light.
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Irisnevins. My brother is a much admired creator of Selmer styled guitars and mandolins ( both A style and Selmer style) in Australia and I will email you his site. I'm sure he would love to help a fellow luthier and artist from America about the bracing.
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Chuneboi.... thanks, got it. I'm still learning! Starting way late, but enjoying it. Very tricky and I thankfully have some help from a neighbor on the scary steps like neck sets! Just a teeny fraction on an inch off and it won't play right or intone right, and resetting the neck is a major pain.
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Speaking of Spanish.... this article may be of interest. Don't know whether true or not, just came across it. I am of Spanish and Breton descent on my father's side so I found it interesting. Anyway.... bring on the Spanaish guitar!
We're nearly all Celts under the skin
>
> IAN JOHNSTON SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
> The Scotsman - Thu 21 Sep 2006
>
> A MAJOR genetic study of the population of Britain appears to
> have put an end to the idea of the "Celtic fringe" of
> Scotland, Ireland and Wales.
>
> Instead, a research team at Oxford University has found the
> majority of Britons are Celts descended from Spanish tribes
> who began arriving about 7,000 years ago.
>
> Even in England, about 64 per cent of people are descended
> from these Celts, outnumbering the descendants of Anglo-
> Saxons by about three to one.
>
> The proportion of Celts is only slightly higher in Scotland,
> at 73 per cent. Wales is the most Celtic part of mainland
> Britain, with 83 per cent.
>
> Previously it was thought that ancient Britons were Celts who
> came from central Europe, but the genetic connection to
> populations in Spain provides a scientific basis for part of
> the ancient Scots' origin myth.
>
> The Declaration of Arbroath of 1320, following the War of
> Independence against England, tells how the Scots arrived in
> Scotland after they had "dwelt for a long course of time in
> Spain among the most savage tribes".
>
> Professor Bryan Sykes, a human geneticist at Oxford, said the
> myth may have been a "residue" in people's memories of the
> real journey, but added that the majority of people in England
> were the descendants of the same people who sailed across the
> Bay of Biscay.
>
> Prof Sykes divided the population into several groups or
> clans: Oisin for the Celts; Wodan for Anglo-Saxons and Danish
> Vikings; Sigurd for Norse Vikings; Eshu for people who share
> genetic links with people such as the Berbers of North Africa;
> and Re for a farming people who spread to Europe from the
> Middle East.
>
> The study linked the male Y-chromosome to the birthplace of
> paternal grandfathers to try to establish a historic
> distribution pattern. Prof Sykes, a member of the Oisin clan,
> said the Celts had remained predominant in Britain despite
> waves of further migration.
>
> "The overlay of Vikings, Saxons and so on is 20 per cent at
> most. That's even in those parts of England that are nearest
> to the Continent," he said.
>
> "The only exception is Orkney and Shetland, where roughly 40
> per cent are of Viking ancestry."
>
> In Scotland, the majority of people are not actually Scots,
> but Picts. Even in Argyll, the stronghold of the Irish Scots,
> two-thirds of members of the Oisin clan are Pictish Celts.
>
> However, according to the study, the Picts, like the Scots,
> originally came from Spain.
>
> "If one thinks that the English are genetically different from
> the Scots, Irish and Welsh, that's entirely wrong," he said.
>
> "In the 19th century, the idea of Anglo-Saxon superiority was
> very widespread. At the moment, there is a resurgence of
> Celtic identity, which had been trampled on. It's very vibrant
> and obvious at the moment.
>
> "Basically the cornerstone of Celtic identity is that they are
> not English. However, to try to base that, as some do, on an
> idea that is not far beneath the surface that Celtic countries
> are somehow descended from a race of Celts, which the English
> are not, is not right. We are all descended from the same
> people.
>
> "It should dispel any idea of trying to base what is a
> cultural identity on a genetic difference, because there
> really isn't one."
# Posted on August 23rd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
my last name by birth being Camarena-Breton (though my father dropped the Breton, his mother's name, here in USA it is listed that way on his original social security card and application), I never grew up feeling especially Celtic, but had this mad love for the music anyway, like it was somehow in my genes. Maybe this explains it. I know maybe only one other Spaniard in the music, in person anyway, I know there are some others. Then there are the Black Irish.
Whatever, it's great music, isn't it?
# Posted on August 24th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I’ve heard nylon strings on a steel-string body a few times. It sounded a little better than a cigar-box guitar. For Nylon strings, you generally need a thinner top (and back) and lighter bracing to have a chance of projecting much sound. And a different bridge placement.
# Posted on August 24th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Bob...mine are light and lightly braced... will try for fun sometime.
# Posted on August 24th 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
I agree with Bob about classical strings on the steel string construction, I just didn't say it before in those words because
Iris mentioned that her guitars were of very light construction
anyway. If your a steel string player and you hate the big neck and 50mm at the nut aspect of a Spanish, which I definitely don't hate, but I understand other people who do, the idea of a hybid Spanish guitar neck is brilliant. Of course no truss. Slotted head of course for lightness. Maybe you could cambor
the fretboard like a steel string too if you needed that.
Trad. I'm don't know whether a Selmer style/ Nylon has ever been made. Macciferri started out with the spanish/flamenco
business and the gypsy guitar evolved from that starting point .
Information on that very subject I'm told can be obtained from
this site www.rfcharle.com . Apparently he's the guy that wrote the book on the history from start to the present. Remember too, because of the flat fretboard( on most) and the wide neck/ soft strings that the Gypsy guitar, if its a good on , is very similar in feel to a Spanish anyway.
# Posted on August 25th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
We'll be waiting for your report, Iris.
# Posted on August 25th 2007 by Bob himself
Re: Spanish Guitar, Manouche pick and technique in Irish music.
Bob...don't hold your breath! On building one anyway!!
I imagine possibly thinning the neck down in back on a classical may do the trick for not so big hands.
A classical, is on the list to build, but first the current OM needs to get done, it's close, and then a 00 14 fret (usually they are 12 fret) is next on the agenda.
I need to be able to stop working and build all day! At school we would do them in ONE week, one gruelling seven day week 10-12 hours a day. No finish on them, in the white, and we did that at home or sent them out.
# Posted on August 25th 2007 by irisnevins