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How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Hiya,
I started playing the low D whistle a year ago and the number of tunes I know keeps growing... and if I don't play them regularly, I forget the ones I've learned earlier on, or at least my fingers are too slow in them and I don't play them as well as I used to... Which is quite annoying. I know that most musicians know hundreds of tunes. How do you remember them all? Am I doing something wrong when I learn them or is it just my bad memory?
Then, I want to start a tunebook, but don't know the most efficient way. Is it better to write just names of tunes with the first few notes, or to have the whole tune written in ABC format? Or is there another completely different way of keeping it?
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Playing regularly is an essential thing, but instead of wading through all the tunes you ever came across, just concentrate on the ones you really like and eventually you'll end up with a pretty big bunch of them.
Forgetting tunes is a natural thing. If you like one - play it often and it'll soon feel like it's playing itself. If you don't like it - just forget it.
Keep them in whatever manner is convenient for you. It is the way you play them, that is important. If they sound right, nobody's going to investigate the way you wrote them down.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Hi baruskaob,
I have a notoriously bad memory and mu only solution is to play as many tunes as I can every day, I am also transcribing every new tune I get into a book for quick reference if I do get stuck.
So the only advise I can give you is to play every tune as often as possible.
This gets harder as you learn more tunes so I rotate them during the week to keep them fresh.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
How are you learning the tunes? I thought I'd never be able to learn by ear, but I eventually did. And the tunes I have learned by ear stay in my mind far better than the ones I learned from the dots. Even if I can't remember what the tune is called, sometimes my fingers will remember it when someone else starts the tune.
So give it a try learning by ear, torture at first, but it does get easier. (btw, I've been playing for less tha four years so have plenty more tunes to learn)
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
When I started learning, it was by ear from a friend who was teaching me. Now I learn mostly from written music, but sometimes from CD's too. I've noticed that the tunes I've learned by ear leave a deeper trace in my memory. But it takes ages to learn them like that I'm going to a whistle summer school for a week now, so we'll be learning by ear there. So hopefully I'll get into it.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
yeah, initially it takes longer to learn tunes by ear, but patience is a virtue.
However, try to view forgetting tunes as a possitive thing. I wish more people would forget more tunes. There are too many anyway, and the majority are crap.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I used to, and still sometimes do, arrange my tunes into sets of three, practice the changes so once you start the first tune of the set you can move smoothly through the other two tunes. I also used to keep a list of tunes that I had learnt and abc the first two bars to get me started into the first tune.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Dear Baruskaob. I am offering this tidbit of wisdom only because, like yourself, I am at a similar stage of expanding my repertoire of tunes. I find listening to tunes, whether it be your favourite artist performing, a midi version or the "simpler the
better " instructional version the best way to burn tunes into your consciousness. The best way for me has been to put between 30 and 50 lets say popular reels onto an MP3 player
and listen to the same recording cycling or walking to work
everyday until you can hum along with every tune in detail automatically. For me this takes about 5 weeks. I practise playing them as well during this time. I also may lie in bed
trying to hum the tune off the dots, which is kind of fun to do.
I've found the most helpful publications for this are "Ireland's Best Session Tunes" volumes 1 & 2 ( published by Waltons)because they come with accompanying C.D.'s and the manuscript is easy to study and read. I aquired these publications whilst on holiday in Ireland but they would be available elsewhere.This is working for me. Now I am ornamenting some of the the tunes , making them my own and having a much more of a good time tring to learn new ones on the fly at the sessions.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Playing the tunes hundreds of times helps... there's all kinds of research on memory technique, aging... I find I have a lot of tunes memorized... my problem is memorizing the titles... if someone comes up and says "hey, do you know that tune called blah blah?" I often look around the room until my eyes meet my beer or someone goes, "oh, that's the one that goes like this: do do dat do do data..." then I usually know it. By the way, speaking of beer, I was told that what is learned "under the influence" is best recalled while under the influence... same goes for being sober, but it's not as much fun.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Once you develop a large repetiore of tunes (I am told--my store of tunes that I can play at session speeds still falls short of 100), you will also find that you have developed a good command of the building blocks that make up tunes, runs, arpeggios, common patterns and turns to the melodies. This helps you play tunes quicker that you are just being exposed to, and also to whip a tune back into shape quickly when it has become dim in your memory. (although you must also resist the temptation to drop in common bits to replace those notes that give a tune its special distinctive nature, something warned against in other threads.)
I myself am starting to learn tunes more quickly and easily the more tunes I know, and think this is the reason why.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I would have to back up KML's comments - I don't listen to anything while cycling, except for that car or bus that I may not see.
I find if I learn tunes by ear that I still forget them, but they come back a lot easier when I try and relearn them, compared to when iearned from the dots.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I am amazed at how many tunes people can remember at a session (but then, I can play every Beatle tune, especially the obscure ones, so I guess it's relative).
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I have a near photographic memory so with the dots I can remember the name of a tune much better because I can picture the page in the book I learned it from. But I think I play the ones I learned by ear better. I'm forcing myself to learn by ear and it's not nearly as hard as I expected. I try to memorize at least which 2 or 3 fingers (flute) I started off with.
However I can't remember the tunes themselves any better whether by ear or by sheet music. And the problem isn't confined to Irish music, either. I have a CD collection that measures maybe a foot high at most because I simply cannot remember the names of the bands I like (I probably never even knew them to begin with). If I can remember the band's name, I cannot remember any of their song names that I liked (if I even knew them) and when I'm standing in the music shop I can't even remember how any of their songs go anyway.
It's some kind of curse and I think it might be caused by the belief drilled into most of us from a very early age that only gifted people can be musicians and that we are better off studying accounting or electronic engineering or whatnot and thus we are stunted in our growth at the outset.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Before this thread turns into another viscious dung fling amongst the Silverbacks, I just want to point out that Baruskaob's initial question was how to remember all the tunes - several good points were made. Keep a list with the names. I love knowing the names and talking about the history of the tunes - it's like knowing fine wines. Practice in sets - if you can remember the first tune - the 2nd and 3rd seem to attach themselves and become one long memory. Listen to the tunes on your i-pod or what have you (obviously not while biking in London traffic snarls). When the melody sinks into the grey-matter it is easier to recall. As far as the Beatles go - my little brother sneaks in the openning riff to Norwegian Wood as a jig ever once in a while as a joke. It always cracks me up when people say "that's a beautiful jig - what's it called?"
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Baruskaob:
[Disclaimer: I don't post to the session hardly at all any more, but have been playing trad music since 1975. YMMV]
Observation:
Though, at an early stage of developing a repertoire, it can seem essential to remember every last tune you learn, and to be able to bring it to mind and to start it unaccompanied, as your repertoire grows, and your circle of playing acquaintances expands, remembering every last tune may come to seem less crucial. There are people who know 2500-3500 tunes, can recall their histories and the circumstances in which they were learned, and can bring them to mind without prompting (Paddy O Brien of Minneapolis is one, Grey Larsen is another), but these persons, in my observation, are in the minority.
It seems to me more common that most people who learn a lot of tunes do *not* recall all the tunes learned: there will be a large body of tunes you have learned over the years, with a smaller subset of tunes that you recognize when heard, a still smaller subset that you can join in when others start them, a still smaller subset you can start on your own or can bring to mind unprompted, and the smallest subset will be whatever tunes are your current favorites and which you currently most enjoy. All of these nested subsets have interplay with each other, but most players do not command all these tunes to the same degree at a given stage in their development.
Players with good memories and very quick ears get to a point where the distinction between "pulling a tune out of the memory" and "learning a tune on the fly" begins to disappear. I cut my teeth playing with people who could listen on the first iteration, finger along on the second, and by the third iteration of the tune be playing along. When asked if they already knew the tune, these people tended to say "well, I've heard it." Does this mean the person had learned the tune under the fingers, forgotten it, and then been reminded in the session? Or did it mean the person had *not* learned the tune under the fingers, but had honed the ability to pick up tunes on the fly--in short, to PLAY WHAT THEY HEARD--to an extent that "remembering" the tune versus "learning it on the fly" was largely erased.
Particularly in session playing, it seems to me, it doesn't so much matter whether you can recall 95% of the 500-1000 tunes you know. It is more important to be able to *recognize* tunes and join in when they are started by others. This is one of the reasons that I *prefer* to go to sessions with unfamiliar musicians--because I can be assured of hearing tunes I've forgotten, or never heard. Thus these sessions have a much higher incidence of challenge and discovery. This is also why I appreciate the people I play with regularly, because they work hard at learning new tunes and bringing them into the mix.
So the more long-term takeaway goal might be, not "how do I remember every tune I've ever learned," but rather "how do I hone my ability to pick up tunes on the fly, remember them when prompted, and join in swiftly?" When you get to this point, the process of building a repertoire becomes very different: you're no longer agonizingly counting up tunes in your lists, sitting in the session hoping that people start tunes you know, or waiting to pounce on moments of silence so you can start your tunes on your own (Baruskaob, of course I know you would not do this: I'm just alluding to behaviors I've seen anxious sessioneers manifest sometimes).
At this stage, the session becomes much more like a conversation, or a poetry slam, or a storytelling session--where you are no longer worrying about whether you have the physical skills to play what you hear. Those skills (the ability to hear something, played by another or playing in your own head, and *immediately* or at least swiftly be able to bring it out of your instrument) are already taken care of, and you can concentrate on the beauty and unique eloquence with which each individual person expresses her/himself.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
>I can just picture the session now, llig and key , sitting next to each other,they agree most/all the tunes are crap so they start playing beetle no's or something! anything as long as its not ITM, Makes you wonder what they go to sessions for? so they can slag everyone and every thing and have a good time?
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Chris coyotebanjo writes >there will be a large body of tunes you have learned over the years, with a smaller subset of tunes that you recognize when heard, a still smaller subset that you can join in when others start them, a still smaller subset you can start on your own or can bring to mind unprompted, and the smallest subset will be whatever tunes are your current favorites and which you currently most enjoy. All of these nested subsets have interplay with each other, but most players do not command all these tunes to the same degree at a given stage in their development.
Of course, but I feel you didn't emphasis enough the fluidity of these subsets - that certainly IS the case for me - almost on a weekly basis, and depending how much and what tunes I practice. And also it depends on what tunes are in what sets and how they relate to one another. But thanks for the post.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Appologies Key - just trying to steer the conversation back to a more positive spin - unless of course, YOU'RE actually the messiah that was foretold in the prophecies... save us from ourselves!....... ;-}
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Thank you all for many interesting, helpfull and sometimes even humorous comments I'm afraid I will never get to the stage of picking up tunes "on the fly". Maybe when I move to Scotland in 2 years (hopefully) and start going to sessions more often than every 3 months...
Mr Smith: Yes, for the moment I am the type of person, who is sitting in the session hoping that people start tunes I know , but I don't have the courage to start one on my own yet. If this is not the "correct" behaviour, what else should I do then, being just a begginer?
When I read some of the comments, I'm wondering: How often and how much do you practise? And also... if you practise so much... when do you work?
Looking forward to any more suggestions. And if you have any about the tunebook... don't hesitate to post them. Although, your opinions on tunebook are quite obvious from the previous discussion It's just practice, practice and practice.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
One other thing of note for me, is that as my repertoire grows, so does my ability to remember tunes. After a year of playing, I was in the same boat as you, struggling to remember tunes. After 5 years of playing, it gets to the point where I can learn a tune and not touch it for a month, and someone will play it at a session, and I happily play along (until afterwards, when I have to ask "what the heck is that tune?")
I attribute this, to a large extent, to transferring the tune learning from muscle memory (this finger does this, and then this other finger does this...) into actual tune memory - where I don't really remember how to play the tune, but I remember how the tune actually GOES. And I've gained enough skill and comfort with my instrument to know how to play something that I have in my head. (I'm not completely there yet, btw. But if I've once learned a tune, chances are I can play it, even if I have 'forgotten' it, or haven't played it in a year).
Another thing that I had to let go of was the NEED to know what a tune is named. Like tradpiper mentioned, I used to have difficulty playing a tune until I could remember what it was called. This stems from a subconscious mnemonic device that I use to attach the first phrase of a tune to it's name, which is a great way to be able to remember how to start tunes... But I had to force myself to let the tune be the important thing, play it, and THEN worry about what tune it was. The tune is more important than the name, and should be treated as such.
So my suggestion is for you to keep at it, learn and remember tunes in whatever way feels most natural to you, and as you get more experience, you will get better at remembering (and playing) tunes!
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Oh, one other thing that I should point out is that I also practice listening - I know that might sound strange, but it is a practicable skill. I have an mp3 player in my car that has about 3000 tracks of Irish, so I commonly hear tunes that I don't know (and don't have a clue who is playing them).
When one of these tracks come on, I actually practice listening the first time through, and then trying to lilt it the second and third times through. The more I do this, the better I get at it. And interestingly enough, sometimes I will try lilting it the FIRST time through, because when you get used to the general structure of how this music often works, you can get good at predicting where a tune might go. (These are things I only do in the car by myself, BTW... Wouldn't want to try that out in public! )
Combining the listening skills with the aforementioned skill and comfort with my instrument has taken me a long way toward being able to pick up tunes "on the fly" in sessions. Right now, I only really do that with jigs and polkas. I will do it occasionally with a reel, but only if I have heard it a bunch of times...
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
"I'm afraid I will never get to the stage of picking up tunes "on the fly". " - baruskaob
No don't say that. If you believe it, it will be true.
You CAN do this. We all can. It's an innate ability that you just have to learn to bring out in yourself.
I cannot do it yet, but I am getting there. I am starting with learning to learn by ear. I didn't think I could do it but I can. I can even guess portions of a brand new, never-before heard by me tune the first time hearing because these tunes really do have patterns.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
"I'm afraid I will never get to the stage of picking up tunes "on the fly". " - baruskaob
"No don't say that. If you believe it, it will be true. You CAN do this. We all can. It's an innate ability that you just have to learn to bring out in yourself." - sbhikes
Be careful though... learning tunes "on the fly" in public often sounds more like you're just noodling. It can be very annoying to someone in ear-shot who actually knows the tune and is hoping to enjoy playing it at that moment. And it might also be distracting to anyone who's hoping to enjoy listening to the music. I always do my tune learning "on the fly" in the privacy of my home with my CD player.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
At the risk of starting up the age-old argument, and a big huge 300 post flame war - At what point is it OK to play a tune without annoying anyone, TPB?
If I've learned a tune and don't quite have it up to speed, is it OK for me to get dragged along on it (which is a great way to get a new tune up to speed, in my book)? If I can pick a tune up by the third time through, and play it basically the same as everyone else, is that OK?
I guess "careful" is a good way to put my approach to playing things that I haven't "officially learned" - my number one goal is to not annoy anyone. But I play tunes all the time in sessions that I've never sat down and learned (and I keep a running list of those tunes in my cell phone, so I can go sit down with them when I get a chance). Ones that are standard in the sessions I attend, that I've heard numerous times are the most likely candidates.
To a large extent, it also depends on the session and players. I know how you feel about "noodling", so I generally haven't done it the times that I have played in your session.
But some of my home sessions are OK with it as long as you don't annoy (and a sharp glance is enough to let you know that you don't have it well enough, so you should knock it off). And it's quite a rush to learn a tune that way! A very common occurrence at some of the sessions I attend is for a set to end, and then somebody will ask you to go through a niggly bit of a tune that they don't quite have right....
Anyway, it's a good skill to have, whether you're willing or able to use it in public or not...
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Pete -- that's why I said, "be careful though." Some instruments are better than others for picking up tunes "on the fly," but I think being careful is a good idea regardless of what you play. The more experienced you are the better you can do it, but the best players seem to use good judgment and restraint, based on what I've observed.
There are many tunes I have sat listening to long enough so that eventually I am so familiar with them that I can play along without even knowing whether I actually sat and "learned" them or not. Too many people have a tendency to start picking up tunes "on the fly" even though it might only be the first or second time they ever heard the tune. Few people can do this successfully. Most of the time their efforts have a negative impact on the flow and intonation of the music.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Whoa, there, horses!
Is this the same tradpiper (now a self-described 'rythme player') as the poster who couldn't tell his frog from his fipple when arguing about ornamentation in another thread? I think we should be told.
I also admire his modesty (if not his spelling) in declaring that he's been 'usefull in every session ive sat in on in the last 20 years'. Only those who get the drinks in or sweep the floor afterwards could really make such a presumptuous claim.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Oh this is all so complicated. Bother someone, don't bother them? Noodle or don't noodle? Ack! How to tread the nasty alligator-filled waters of the session?
The one I go to I sit way far away and try to blow my flute so quiet nobody will be bothered. People keep telling me to sit closer, play louder, go ahead and play only the first note or 2 if that's all you can do. Don't be shy.
Ack!!! I'm bothereing people by following the advice to be a polite sessioneer and not bother people. But I don't doubt for a minute if I played loud and horrible that would bother them just the same.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Noodling or learning tunes out loud, on the fly at a session? I can think of very few exceptions where this isn't totally disruptive to other players. I know my punch-drunk, peanut-sized brain simply cannot focus when my ears are pulled away from what I am doing by a person searching for the tune as they go. I know there are high level players who can mow through those distratcions with ease. I can't - and I suspect that many others find it difficult too. Find out what tune it is - learn it at home - then give it a go at the session. You will enjoy it more - and so will your co-sessioneers.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
sbhikes - hang on - there is nothing wrong with playing to a skill level you are comfortable with - slowly, quickly, only a few notes on a tune you sorta know that is being led by somebody else, etc. My frustration is with learning from scratch out loud, or experimentation on a tune that is generally unknown to the player. Like the bluegrass fiddle player who once told me he was creating "alternative melodies" to the reel I was trying to play. Don't let blow-hards like me chase you away from this great music.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
>> I'm starting to not like sessions.
sbhikes, sessions can be a scary place, especially when you're first starting out. But just practice common sense and courtesy with your interactions (musically and personally), and you'll be fine! If you have regular sessions that you attend, you'll get to know people, and they'll help guide you.
A lot of people have noted over the years here that the craic is as important as the music in most sessions. If you're friendly, and fun to be around, the session isn't a scary place at all.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I suppose you *could* describe yourself as a "rythme" player, if you like. I have no idea what it means, but, judging from your very many posts (mainly arrogant, tedious and apparently deliberately provoking) over the last few days, I'm guessing that neither do you.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Ooh!i know!we could take turns at playing rythme . everyone in the session could play rythme in turn ... right after they've played their favourite ornamants . i bet *that* would be instructive![!]
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
That's right. I now almost exclusively learn all my new tunes down the pub. But I can't abide noodling. The trick is a very simple one, only play the notes you know are right. It's about listening hard, stopping blowing, squeezing, scraping, whatever, unless you know you have it. What you should never be doing is flailing around trying to hit the right notes by accident. And there's a problem with making a note of a tune you like in a session and going away, finding a source and learning it from that. Next week you proudly unveil it and lo and behold it's a different version. And you don't even notice because you're concentrating so hard on getting right. Much much better to take it easy and learn the tunes from the people you want to play them with. Depending on the tune, and your ability, it might only take a couple times through, it might take months. Remember, patience is a virtue.
And I'm also confused about this tradpiper fellow. He talks about tunes and playing the pipes and the fiddle (even the viola) and now he's on about "as a rythme player i have been able to play and be usefull in every session ive sat in on in the last 20 years." Hmmmm. (Let's hope, for his mates' sake, his rhythm is more consistent than his grammar and his ability to play notes in the right order is better than his spelling.)
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
The question posed was about learning a lot of tunes. When you enter the world of ITM and sessions etc., it's a life-long journey. You don't need to know all the tunes and play all the time to participate.
Participation begins from the time you enter the room. Your first experiences might be from a nearby table, and as you become more familiar you end up at the table and playing along.
I have spent the past 20 years or so on this journey and much of it has been as a listener. Sometimes my listening is done with my instrument on my lap, but listening is key and is what your "tunebook" is built on.
As you sit and listen you're actually learning the tunes better than you would if you were attempting to pick them up "on the fly." Eventually these tunes will be recorded in your memory and you'll find yourself effortlessly playing along without ever putting your fellow musicians off. The longer you participate -- the more tunes you learn. Just continue enjoying the music and the rest will come naturally.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Llig - guilty as charged - I have shown up with tunes learned on my own - but in different keys, or with entire sections of the tune completely different than they way the locals play it - but that is STILL better than noodling
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I don't think having it in a different key, or having a whole section different is that much of a problem. Players can adapt easily to that sort of stuff. The problem is much worse when you have just the odd note wrong. It's much harder to spot and adds to the mud. I regularly force myself to sit out tunes I'm pretty confident I have, not just to make sure, but often simply to enjoy it.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Yeah, I know, I went to your profile when you first showed up here a couple of days ago. Just had another look and yep, still confused. On the one hand it's like you are ten different people. And on the other, I can't remember which thread you said it on, but there was something about liking to spread yourself thin as you don't think you are capable of mastering anything. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Oh, it's piano now. You never mentioned that before. And I notice you've added recently you're a martial arts teacher. Is that just ensure people like me, llig and Dow don't get too cheeky? Not that I could give a...
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Dear Key Maniac Lad.
Good point about the cycling. I don't want to encourage anyone
to pedal around Piccadilly Circus while listening to Frankie Gavin's latest C.D. and pedal straight under a bus. I was offering an example of what I do in my much smaller town.
I only cycle on council bikeways where the only danger is having a head on with another cyclist, which hurts, but is not
too high a price to pay for remembering a good reel. Loose
dogs can be a problem too when you can't hear them coming.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I thought the martial arts stuff was just to give a helping hand to those of us who still haven't realized that tradpiper is a spoof. Aside from the wild swings between lunatic semi-literacy and well-formed (even, I may say, well thought-out) sentences displaying a tolerably cultured vocabulary, we have a bio that says that he composes tunes for the GHB in 10/8 and 7/8, and that, amongst other things, he has "studied a number of traditional daoist forms over the years" and that he also teaches vale tudo while running a small mobile recording studio. He's not even trying very hard to be convincing, imho.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Could be, could be, Booju... but he doesn't know what the term 'The Big Tunes' means. How strange, for someone who has dedicated his whole life to The Music.
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
yeah, I've toyed with the idea of him being a spoof. But would someone really put that much effort into it? No, I unfortunatly think he's real. I tell you what though, I wouldn't like to meet him. He'd drive you bonkers
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
When someone posts a question for help and advice, it is nice to see everyone's sincere advice and pick up great ideas. The poser of the question and others reading it for useful advice are capable of sorting info and personal stuff they do not find useful, so the bulk of sniping comments could be eliminated, saving readers a lot of time.
How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Hiya,
I started playing the low D whistle a year ago and the number of tunes I know keeps growing... and if I don't play them regularly, I forget the ones I've learned earlier on, or at least my fingers are too slow in them and I don't play them as well as I used to... Which is quite annoying. I know that most musicians know hundreds of tunes. How do you remember them all? Am I doing something wrong when I learn them or is it just my bad memory?
Then, I want to start a tunebook, but don't know the most efficient way. Is it better to write just names of tunes with the first few notes, or to have the whole tune written in ABC format? Or is there another completely different way of keeping it?
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by baruskaob
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
It is annoying, isn't it? But you're not doing anything wrong, by the sound of it. It just takes time ... a lot of time.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Playing regularly is an essential thing, but instead of wading through all the tunes you ever came across, just concentrate on the ones you really like and eventually you'll end up with a pretty big bunch of them.
Forgetting tunes is a natural thing. If you like one - play it often and it'll soon feel like it's playing itself. If you don't like it - just forget it.
Keep them in whatever manner is convenient for you. It is the way you play them, that is important. If they sound right, nobody's going to investigate the way you wrote them down.
All the best!
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Barfly
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Hi baruskaob,
I have a notoriously bad memory and mu only solution is to play as many tunes as I can every day, I am also transcribing every new tune I get into a book for quick reference if I do get stuck.
So the only advise I can give you is to play every tune as often as possible.
This gets harder as you learn more tunes so I rotate them during the week to keep them fresh.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by session savage
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
How are you learning the tunes? I thought I'd never be able to learn by ear, but I eventually did. And the tunes I have learned by ear stay in my mind far better than the ones I learned from the dots. Even if I can't remember what the tune is called, sometimes my fingers will remember it when someone else starts the tune.
So give it a try learning by ear, torture at first, but it does get easier. (btw, I've been playing for less tha four years so have plenty more tunes to learn)
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by mehere
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
When I started learning, it was by ear from a friend who was teaching me. Now I learn mostly from written music, but sometimes from CD's too. I've noticed that the tunes I've learned by ear leave a deeper trace in my memory. But it takes ages to learn them like that
I'm going to a whistle summer school for a week now, so we'll be learning by ear there. So hopefully I'll get into it.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by baruskaob
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
yeah, initially it takes longer to learn tunes by ear, but patience is a virtue.
However, try to view forgetting tunes as a possitive thing. I wish more people would forget more tunes. There are too many anyway, and the majority are crap.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I used to, and still sometimes do, arrange my tunes into sets of three, practice the changes so once you start the first tune of the set you can move smoothly through the other two tunes. I also used to keep a list of tunes that I had learnt and abc the first two bars to get me started into the first tune.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by curlew
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
'first tune of the set'
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by curlew
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Dear Baruskaob. I am offering this tidbit of wisdom only because, like yourself, I am at a similar stage of expanding my repertoire of tunes. I find listening to tunes, whether it be your favourite artist performing, a midi version or the "simpler the
better " instructional version the best way to burn tunes into your consciousness. The best way for me has been to put between 30 and 50 lets say popular reels onto an MP3 player
and listen to the same recording cycling or walking to work
everyday until you can hum along with every tune in detail automatically. For me this takes about 5 weeks. I practise playing them as well during this time. I also may lie in bed
trying to hum the tune off the dots, which is kind of fun to do.
I've found the most helpful publications for this are "Ireland's Best Session Tunes" volumes 1 & 2 ( published by Waltons)because they come with accompanying C.D.'s and the manuscript is easy to study and read. I aquired these publications whilst on holiday in Ireland but they would be available elsewhere.This is working for me. Now I am ornamenting some of the the tunes , making them my own and having a much more of a good time tring to learn new ones on the fly at the sessions.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I wouldn't recommend listening to anything whilst cycling. But then I live in London.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Playing the tunes hundreds of times helps... there's all kinds of research on memory technique, aging... I find I have a lot of tunes memorized... my problem is memorizing the titles... if someone comes up and says "hey, do you know that tune called blah blah?" I often look around the room until my eyes meet my beer or someone goes, "oh, that's the one that goes like this: do do dat do do data..." then I usually know it. By the way, speaking of beer, I was told that what is learned "under the influence" is best recalled while under the influence... same goes for being sober, but it's not as much fun.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by pastrings
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Once you develop a large repetiore of tunes (I am told--my store of tunes that I can play at session speeds still falls short of 100), you will also find that you have developed a good command of the building blocks that make up tunes, runs, arpeggios, common patterns and turns to the melodies. This helps you play tunes quicker that you are just being exposed to, and also to whip a tune back into shape quickly when it has become dim in your memory. (although you must also resist the temptation to drop in common bits to replace those notes that give a tune its special distinctive nature, something warned against in other threads.)
I myself am starting to learn tunes more quickly and easily the more tunes I know, and think this is the reason why.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I would have to back up KML's comments - I don't listen to anything while cycling, except for that car or bus that I may not see.
I find if I learn tunes by ear that I still forget them, but they come back a lot easier when I try and relearn them, compared to when iearned from the dots.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by harry
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I am amazed at how many tunes people can remember at a session (but then, I can play every Beatle tune, especially the obscure ones, so I guess it's relative).
I'm new to the ITM world, so I concentrate on a smaller repertory. I like to use Dow's list of the top 60 tunes as a starting point, and here is the link
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/display/1311/comments#comme
just scroll partway down to see the list
Once I can play these, I will move on from there.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Llig,
If most tunes are crap, what are your favorites? Looking for suggestions.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Kheelch
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I agree with llig. The vast majority of tunes are absolute sh!te. There is in fact only one good tune and this is it:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/2399
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I have a near photographic memory so with the dots I can remember the name of a tune much better because I can picture the page in the book I learned it from. But I think I play the ones I learned by ear better. I'm forcing myself to learn by ear and it's not nearly as hard as I expected. I try to memorize at least which 2 or 3 fingers (flute) I started off with.
However I can't remember the tunes themselves any better whether by ear or by sheet music. And the problem isn't confined to Irish music, either. I have a CD collection that measures maybe a foot high at most because I simply cannot remember the names of the bands I like (I probably never even knew them to begin with). If I can remember the band's name, I cannot remember any of their song names that I liked (if I even knew them) and when I'm standing in the music shop I can't even remember how any of their songs go anyway.
It's some kind of curse and I think it might be caused by the belief drilled into most of us from a very early age that only gifted people can be musicians and that we are better off studying accounting or electronic engineering or whatnot and thus we are stunted in our growth at the outset.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Before this thread turns into another viscious dung fling amongst the Silverbacks, I just want to point out that Baruskaob's initial question was how to remember all the tunes - several good points were made. Keep a list with the names. I love knowing the names and talking about the history of the tunes - it's like knowing fine wines. Practice in sets - if you can remember the first tune - the 2nd and 3rd seem to attach themselves and become one long memory. Listen to the tunes on your i-pod or what have you (obviously not while biking in London traffic snarls). When the melody sinks into the grey-matter it is easier to recall. As far as the Beatles go - my little brother sneaks in the openning riff to Norwegian Wood as a jig ever once in a while as a joke. It always cracks me up when people say "that's a beautiful jig - what's it called?"
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Baruskaob:
[Disclaimer: I don't post to the session hardly at all any more, but have been playing trad music since 1975. YMMV]
Observation:
Though, at an early stage of developing a repertoire, it can seem essential to remember every last tune you learn, and to be able to bring it to mind and to start it unaccompanied, as your repertoire grows, and your circle of playing acquaintances expands, remembering every last tune may come to seem less crucial. There are people who know 2500-3500 tunes, can recall their histories and the circumstances in which they were learned, and can bring them to mind without prompting (Paddy O Brien of Minneapolis is one, Grey Larsen is another), but these persons, in my observation, are in the minority.
It seems to me more common that most people who learn a lot of tunes do *not* recall all the tunes learned: there will be a large body of tunes you have learned over the years, with a smaller subset of tunes that you recognize when heard, a still smaller subset that you can join in when others start them, a still smaller subset you can start on your own or can bring to mind unprompted, and the smallest subset will be whatever tunes are your current favorites and which you currently most enjoy. All of these nested subsets have interplay with each other, but most players do not command all these tunes to the same degree at a given stage in their development.
Players with good memories and very quick ears get to a point where the distinction between "pulling a tune out of the memory" and "learning a tune on the fly" begins to disappear. I cut my teeth playing with people who could listen on the first iteration, finger along on the second, and by the third iteration of the tune be playing along. When asked if they already knew the tune, these people tended to say "well, I've heard it." Does this mean the person had learned the tune under the fingers, forgotten it, and then been reminded in the session? Or did it mean the person had *not* learned the tune under the fingers, but had honed the ability to pick up tunes on the fly--in short, to PLAY WHAT THEY HEARD--to an extent that "remembering" the tune versus "learning it on the fly" was largely erased.
Particularly in session playing, it seems to me, it doesn't so much matter whether you can recall 95% of the 500-1000 tunes you know. It is more important to be able to *recognize* tunes and join in when they are started by others. This is one of the reasons that I *prefer* to go to sessions with unfamiliar musicians--because I can be assured of hearing tunes I've forgotten, or never heard. Thus these sessions have a much higher incidence of challenge and discovery. This is also why I appreciate the people I play with regularly, because they work hard at learning new tunes and bringing them into the mix.
So the more long-term takeaway goal might be, not "how do I remember every tune I've ever learned," but rather "how do I hone my ability to pick up tunes on the fly, remember them when prompted, and join in swiftly?" When you get to this point, the process of building a repertoire becomes very different: you're no longer agonizingly counting up tunes in your lists, sitting in the session hoping that people start tunes you know, or waiting to pounce on moments of silence so you can start your tunes on your own (Baruskaob, of course I know you would not do this: I'm just alluding to behaviors I've seen anxious sessioneers manifest sometimes).
At this stage, the session becomes much more like a conversation, or a poetry slam, or a storytelling session--where you are no longer worrying about whether you have the physical skills to play what you hear. Those skills (the ability to hear something, played by another or playing in your own head, and *immediately* or at least swiftly be able to bring it out of your instrument) are already taken care of, and you can concentrate on the beauty and unique eloquence with which each individual person expresses her/himself.
cjs
chris@coyotebanjo.com
coyotebanjo.blogspot.com
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by coyotebanjo
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Mr Smith I wish you would post more often - that was the most mature thing I've read on the yellow board in quite some time
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
>I can just picture the session now, llig and key , sitting next to each other,they agree most/all the tunes are crap so they start playing beetle no's or something! anything as long as its not ITM, Makes you wonder what they go to sessions for? so they can slag everyone and every thing and have a good time?
Only if you were there.
Nahh, too easy, actually.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Chris coyotebanjo writes >there will be a large body of tunes you have learned over the years, with a smaller subset of tunes that you recognize when heard, a still smaller subset that you can join in when others start them, a still smaller subset you can start on your own or can bring to mind unprompted, and the smallest subset will be whatever tunes are your current favorites and which you currently most enjoy. All of these nested subsets have interplay with each other, but most players do not command all these tunes to the same degree at a given stage in their development.
Of course, but I feel you didn't emphasis enough the fluidity of these subsets - that certainly IS the case for me - almost on a weekly basis, and depending how much and what tunes I practice. And also it depends on what tunes are in what sets and how they relate to one another. But thanks for the post.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Wooowww!
This is getting needlessly messianic.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Appologies Key - just trying to steer the conversation back to a more positive spin - unless of course, YOU'RE actually the messiah that was foretold in the prophecies... save us from ourselves!....... ;-}
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Thanks baruskaob this is an excellent question for the forum!
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Thank you all for many interesting, helpfull and sometimes even humorous comments
I'm afraid I will never get to the stage of picking up tunes "on the fly". Maybe when I move to Scotland in 2 years (hopefully) and start going to sessions more often than every 3 months...
, but I don't have the courage to start one on my own yet. If this is not the "correct" behaviour, what else should I do then, being just a begginer?
It's just practice, practice and practice.
Mr Smith: Yes, for the moment I am the type of person, who is sitting in the session hoping that people start tunes I know
When I read some of the comments, I'm wondering: How often and how much do you practise? And also... if you practise so much... when do you work?
Looking forward to any more suggestions. And if you have any about the tunebook... don't hesitate to post them. Although, your opinions on tunebook are quite obvious from the previous discussion
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by baruskaob
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
One other thing of note for me, is that as my repertoire grows, so does my ability to remember tunes. After a year of playing, I was in the same boat as you, struggling to remember tunes. After 5 years of playing, it gets to the point where I can learn a tune and not touch it for a month, and someone will play it at a session, and I happily play along (until afterwards, when I have to ask "what the heck is that tune?")
I attribute this, to a large extent, to transferring the tune learning from muscle memory (this finger does this, and then this other finger does this...) into actual tune memory - where I don't really remember how to play the tune, but I remember how the tune actually GOES. And I've gained enough skill and comfort with my instrument to know how to play something that I have in my head. (I'm not completely there yet, btw. But if I've once learned a tune, chances are I can play it, even if I have 'forgotten' it, or haven't played it in a year).
Another thing that I had to let go of was the NEED to know what a tune is named. Like tradpiper mentioned, I used to have difficulty playing a tune until I could remember what it was called. This stems from a subconscious mnemonic device that I use to attach the first phrase of a tune to it's name, which is a great way to be able to remember how to start tunes... But I had to force myself to let the tune be the important thing, play it, and THEN worry about what tune it was. The tune is more important than the name, and should be treated as such.
So my suggestion is for you to keep at it, learn and remember tunes in whatever way feels most natural to you, and as you get more experience, you will get better at remembering (and playing) tunes!
Pete
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Reverend
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I've been playing for coming up to four years and I agree with every word Reverend.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by mehere
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Oh, one other thing that I should point out is that I also practice listening - I know that might sound strange, but it is a practicable skill. I have an mp3 player in my car that has about 3000 tracks of Irish, so I commonly hear tunes that I don't know (and don't have a clue who is playing them).
When one of these tracks come on, I actually practice listening the first time through, and then trying to lilt it the second and third times through. The more I do this, the better I get at it. And interestingly enough, sometimes I will try lilting it the FIRST time through, because when you get used to the general structure of how this music often works, you can get good at predicting where a tune might go. (These are things I only do in the car by myself, BTW... Wouldn't want to try that out in public!
)
Combining the listening skills with the aforementioned skill and comfort with my instrument has taken me a long way toward being able to pick up tunes "on the fly" in sessions. Right now, I only really do that with jigs and polkas. I will do it occasionally with a reel, but only if I have heard it a bunch of times...
Pete
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Reverend
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Like father like...
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Aha, you're getting into the vibe here now!
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
"I'm afraid I will never get to the stage of picking up tunes "on the fly". " - baruskaob
No don't say that. If you believe it, it will be true.
You CAN do this. We all can. It's an innate ability that you just have to learn to bring out in yourself.
I cannot do it yet, but I am getting there. I am starting with learning to learn by ear. I didn't think I could do it but I can. I can even guess portions of a brand new, never-before heard by me tune the first time hearing because these tunes really do have patterns.
You will be able to do this and so will I.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
"I'm afraid I will never get to the stage of picking up tunes "on the fly". " - baruskaob
"No don't say that. If you believe it, it will be true. You CAN do this. We all can. It's an innate ability that you just have to learn to bring out in yourself." - sbhikes
Be careful though... learning tunes "on the fly" in public often sounds more like you're just noodling. It can be very annoying to someone in ear-shot who actually knows the tune and is hoping to enjoy playing it at that moment. And it might also be distracting to anyone who's hoping to enjoy listening to the music. I always do my tune learning "on the fly" in the privacy of my home with my CD player.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
At the risk of starting up the age-old argument, and a big huge 300 post flame war - At what point is it OK to play a tune without annoying anyone, TPB?
If I've learned a tune and don't quite have it up to speed, is it OK for me to get dragged along on it (which is a great way to get a new tune up to speed, in my book)? If I can pick a tune up by the third time through, and play it basically the same as everyone else, is that OK?
I guess "careful" is a good way to put my approach to playing things that I haven't "officially learned" - my number one goal is to not annoy anyone. But I play tunes all the time in sessions that I've never sat down and learned (and I keep a running list of those tunes in my cell phone, so I can go sit down with them when I get a chance). Ones that are standard in the sessions I attend, that I've heard numerous times are the most likely candidates.
To a large extent, it also depends on the session and players. I know how you feel about "noodling", so I generally haven't done it the times that I have played in your session.
But some of my home sessions are OK with it as long as you don't annoy (and a sharp glance is enough to let you know that you don't have it well enough, so you should knock it off). And it's quite a rush to learn a tune that way! A very common occurrence at some of the sessions I attend is for a set to end, and then somebody will ask you to go through a niggly bit of a tune that they don't quite have right....
Anyway, it's a good skill to have, whether you're willing or able to use it in public or not...
Pete
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Reverend
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Pete -- that's why I said, "be careful though." Some instruments are better than others for picking up tunes "on the fly," but I think being careful is a good idea regardless of what you play. The more experienced you are the better you can do it, but the best players seem to use good judgment and restraint, based on what I've observed.
There are many tunes I have sat listening to long enough so that eventually I am so familiar with them that I can play along without even knowing whether I actually sat and "learned" them or not. Too many people have a tendency to start picking up tunes "on the fly" even though it might only be the first or second time they ever heard the tune. Few people can do this successfully. Most of the time their efforts have a negative impact on the flow and intonation of the music.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
>> but the best players seem to use good judgment and restraint, based on what I've observed.
Agreed. I was just wondering if there is a line that you draw somewhere, or whether the line is simply whether you're annoyed or not
Pete
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Reverend
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Whoa, there, horses!
Is this the same tradpiper (now a self-described 'rythme player') as the poster who couldn't tell his frog from his fipple when arguing about ornamentation in another thread? I think we should be told.
I also admire his modesty (if not his spelling) in declaring that he's been 'usefull in every session ive sat in on in the last 20 years'. Only those who get the drinks in or sweep the floor afterwards could really make such a presumptuous claim.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Floss the Tethers
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Oh this is all so complicated. Bother someone, don't bother them? Noodle or don't noodle? Ack! How to tread the nasty alligator-filled waters of the session?
The one I go to I sit way far away and try to blow my flute so quiet nobody will be bothered. People keep telling me to sit closer, play louder, go ahead and play only the first note or 2 if that's all you can do. Don't be shy.
Ack!!! I'm bothereing people by following the advice to be a polite sessioneer and not bother people. But I don't doubt for a minute if I played loud and horrible that would bother them just the same.
I'm starting to not like sessions.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Noodling or learning tunes out loud, on the fly at a session? I can think of very few exceptions where this isn't totally disruptive to other players. I know my punch-drunk, peanut-sized brain simply cannot focus when my ears are pulled away from what I am doing by a person searching for the tune as they go. I know there are high level players who can mow through those distratcions with ease. I can't - and I suspect that many others find it difficult too. Find out what tune it is - learn it at home - then give it a go at the session. You will enjoy it more - and so will your co-sessioneers.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
sbhikes - hang on - there is nothing wrong with playing to a skill level you are comfortable with - slowly, quickly, only a few notes on a tune you sorta know that is being led by somebody else, etc. My frustration is with learning from scratch out loud, or experimentation on a tune that is generally unknown to the player. Like the bluegrass fiddle player who once told me he was creating "alternative melodies" to the reel I was trying to play. Don't let blow-hards like me chase you away from this great music.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
>> I'm starting to not like sessions.
sbhikes, sessions can be a scary place, especially when you're first starting out. But just practice common sense and courtesy with your interactions (musically and personally), and you'll be fine! If you have regular sessions that you attend, you'll get to know people, and they'll help guide you.
A lot of people have noted over the years here that the craic is as important as the music in most sessions. If you're friendly, and fun to be around, the session isn't a scary place at all.
Pete
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Reverend
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I suppose you *could* describe yourself as a "rythme" player, if you like. I have no idea what it means, but, judging from your very many posts (mainly arrogant, tedious and apparently deliberately provoking) over the last few days, I'm guessing that neither do you.
I bet you noodle, too ...
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Ooh!i know!we could take turns at playing rythme . everyone in the session could play rythme in turn ... right after they've played their favourite ornamants . i bet *that* would be instructive![!]
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
That's right. I now almost exclusively learn all my new tunes down the pub. But I can't abide noodling. The trick is a very simple one, only play the notes you know are right. It's about listening hard, stopping blowing, squeezing, scraping, whatever, unless you know you have it. What you should never be doing is flailing around trying to hit the right notes by accident. And there's a problem with making a note of a tune you like in a session and going away, finding a source and learning it from that. Next week you proudly unveil it and lo and behold it's a different version. And you don't even notice because you're concentrating so hard on getting right. Much much better to take it easy and learn the tunes from the people you want to play them with. Depending on the tune, and your ability, it might only take a couple times through, it might take months. Remember, patience is a virtue.
And I'm also confused about this tradpiper fellow. He talks about tunes and playing the pipes and the fiddle (even the viola) and now he's on about "as a rythme player i have been able to play and be usefull in every session ive sat in on in the last 20 years." Hmmmm. (Let's hope, for his mates' sake, his rhythm is more consistent than his grammar and his ability to play notes in the right order is better than his spelling.)
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
The question posed was about learning a lot of tunes. When you enter the world of ITM and sessions etc., it's a life-long journey. You don't need to know all the tunes and play all the time to participate.
Participation begins from the time you enter the room. Your first experiences might be from a nearby table, and as you become more familiar you end up at the table and playing along.
I have spent the past 20 years or so on this journey and much of it has been as a listener. Sometimes my listening is done with my instrument on my lap, but listening is key and is what your "tunebook" is built on.
As you sit and listen you're actually learning the tunes better than you would if you were attempting to pick them up "on the fly." Eventually these tunes will be recorded in your memory and you'll find yourself effortlessly playing along without ever putting your fellow musicians off. The longer you participate -- the more tunes you learn. Just continue enjoying the music and the rest will come naturally.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Llig - guilty as charged - I have shown up with tunes learned on my own - but in different keys, or with entire sections of the tune completely different than they way the locals play it - but that is STILL better than noodling
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I don't think having it in a different key, or having a whole section different is that much of a problem. Players can adapt easily to that sort of stuff. The problem is much worse when you have just the odd note wrong. It's much harder to spot and adds to the mud. I regularly force myself to sit out tunes I'm pretty confident I have, not just to make sure, but often simply to enjoy it.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Yeah, I know, I went to your profile when you first showed up here a couple of days ago. Just had another look and yep, still confused. On the one hand it's like you are ten different people. And on the other, I can't remember which thread you said it on, but there was something about liking to spread yourself thin as you don't think you are capable of mastering anything. Correct me if I'm wrong.
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Oh, it's piano now. You never mentioned that before. And I notice you've added recently you're a martial arts teacher. Is that just ensure people like me, llig and Dow don't get too cheeky? Not that I could give a...
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Dear Key Maniac Lad.
Good point about the cycling. I don't want to encourage anyone
to pedal around Piccadilly Circus while listening to Frankie Gavin's latest C.D. and pedal straight under a bus. I was offering an example of what I do in my much smaller town.
I only cycle on council bikeways where the only danger is having a head on with another cyclist, which hurts, but is not
too high a price to pay for remembering a good reel. Loose
dogs can be a problem too when you can't hear them coming.
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by chuneboi slim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
OK, fair enough, Thanks for clarifying.
Boiinnng! Said Zebedee.
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
"...before this turns into another dung fling among the silverbacks..."
How's it doing Jusa Nutter? Time to break out the hoses?
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
I thought the martial arts stuff was just to give a helping hand to those of us who still haven't realized that tradpiper is a spoof. Aside from the wild swings between lunatic semi-literacy and well-formed (even, I may say, well thought-out) sentences displaying a tolerably cultured vocabulary, we have a bio that says that he composes tunes for the GHB in 10/8 and 7/8, and that, amongst other things, he has "studied a number of traditional daoist forms over the years" and that he also teaches vale tudo while running a small mobile recording studio. He's not even trying very hard to be convincing, imho.
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Could be, could be, Booju... but he doesn't know what the term 'The Big Tunes' means. How strange, for someone who has dedicated his whole life to The Music.
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
yeah, I've toyed with the idea of him being a spoof. But would someone really put that much effort into it? No, I unfortunatly think he's real. I tell you what though, I wouldn't like to meet him. He'd drive you bonkers
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
Perhaps he is .... mad.
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by Lingpupa
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
what d'you mean perhaps?
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by xyz
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
'no it was piano then ! about 35yrs ago. Its not a martial art, its a sport.'
This gets more and more bizarre. Since when was playing the piano a martial art (though I suppose it depends how you play it)?
I've come to the conclusion that tradpiper does not exist and is more than likely the combined work of at least two collaborative minds.
Prove me wrong, tradpiper, and let us know exactly where you'll be playing this weekend.
# Posted on August 17th 2007 by Floss the Tethers
Re: How do you remember all these tunes? Any suggestions how to start a tunebook?
When someone posts a question for help and advice, it is nice to see everyone's sincere advice and pick up great ideas. The poser of the question and others reading it for useful advice are capable of sorting info and personal stuff they do not find useful, so the bulk of sniping comments could be eliminated, saving readers a lot of time.
# Posted on August 21st 2007 by gilesg