How many people mix these in a set? it seemed quite common down in Kerry, they'd maybe do jig/slip jig/jig etc. Anyone know when this became common? Is it a more recent thing or are there old recordings anyone knows about? Anyone any opinions on it? (Ha!)
I find it very unnerving when some people put them together - slip jig to jig or slide could trip up the dancers. 'Druther they go into a reel instead. Dancers can still find their feet.
I could be wrong, but with groups like Lunasa changing gears in sets all the time, it's seems to be causing many others to follow suit in their sessions as well.
The only time I ever heard this in these parts is when someone put "Give us a drink of water" after the "Kesh" which I think is a set the Bothy band did many years ago.
We tend to be fairly staid, jigs with jigs, reels with reels, and only occasionally, a faster dance tune following an air.
Sorry, I meant I prefer to go from a jig or slide to a reel, not a slip jig to a reel. Unless it's a 6/4 tune.
Our session tunes usually stay within types, unless it's a Cape Breton set (one of that sessions' motto is = tunes from all over).
My mother always used to ask "If Lúnasa jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?"
I'll sometimes mix slip jigs and hop jigs. And I'll sometimes mix a single jig in with double jigs. But it seems to me that if you're mixing slip jigs, slides, and double jigs, you might run the risk of playing your slides too much like jigs, etc. So for me, it helps me play them 'properly' by separating them into their own sets...
I have been to sessions where they will do some Lúnasaesque time signature swapping, but that is always in a pre-defined session-set that they'll play that way all the time, and to me, that gets old.
In some ways, it's pretty rude to go switching time signatures in a set unannounced...
tradpiper, I agree with what you're saying about needing the roots to be in the right place... But you can't expect to cultivate the seeds with Seamus Ennis.
I look at a lot of the modern bands as being accessible to people who didn't grow up around the music. Lúnasa has a rather Rock n Roll production, with bass, arrangement, etc. That is going to appeal more to people that grew up on Rock or Country or Jazz.
If you threw Coleman or Ennis at people first off, very few would become interested. I know it took me a good 3 years before I could stomach listening to that stuff, because it didn't appeal to my ear. It STILL doesn't appeal to my ear, but it appeals to my musical taste and desire for knowledge.
The problem arises, as you say, when people just assume that what they're hearing on a modern recording is traditional. So long live sites like this which help us learn where our roots should be firmly planted
Tradpiper - you make several valid points, but your argument also sounds like one of those generational "old vs. new" discussions. I was in a session once where a talented young fiddle player began a set with a lovely jig, then finished off with a ripping reel. The younger players in the room all smiled and nodded approvingly, while the older players cringed their noses in quiet disapproval. Clearly (at least to me) the effects of the newer trad artists with their stylized arrangements and tune choices ARE having an effect with some of the younger players not initially raised within the tradition.
I love playing a slip jig followed by a jig. I do it every chance i get. Two sets i particularly like to play, is "an phis fliuch into garret barry's" and "the kesh followed by the swaggering". I think it sounds interesting, and the time change is subtle, yet noticable enough to make you feel it
Scrappy, your sets remind me of the Matt Molloy set on his heather breeze disc - Fisherman's slipjig / ships in full sail (jig) / out on the ocean (jig) - lovely set.
Our trio puts Colraine, Butterfly and Morrison in a set. Our upright bass player takes the first go at butterfly (slip jig) as a solo with a nice jazzy groove. Needless to say we are not playing for dancers. The change of pace is fun to play with.
If this is going to become an old vs new question, might I point out that we only have records going as far back as around 1920? From reading and hearing comments from others much more learned than me, it seems that before the 78s out of America started to homogenise Irish music back in Ireland there was far more variety and scope for personal experimentation. Tommy Potts, Arthur Darley, these guys played stuff how they felt it, not according some rules as dictated by those claiming to be "pure drop" and "protecting the tradition". The music of these guys, and a lot of east clare music as well, shows that it wasn't always and still isn't purely a dance music tradition, and that there is scope for personal expression at the compromise of rhythmic integrity and dance-ability.
Slip jigs work great with jigs and changing to and from reels, hornpipes, anything, can add a lot to the message of a persons' playing. Trying to freeze-dry living tradition doesn't help it either.
jigs and slip jigs within a set.
jigs and slip jigs within a set.
How many people mix these in a set? it seemed quite common down in Kerry, they'd maybe do jig/slip jig/jig etc. Anyone know when this became common? Is it a more recent thing or are there old recordings anyone knows about? Anyone any opinions on it? (Ha!)
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by hakanozel
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
I find it very unnerving when some people put them together - slip jig to jig or slide could trip up the dancers. 'Druther they go into a reel instead. Dancers can still find their feet.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by vonnieestes
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
I could be wrong, but with groups like Lunasa changing gears in sets all the time, it's seems to be causing many others to follow suit in their sessions as well.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
The only time I ever heard this in these parts is when someone put "Give us a drink of water" after the "Kesh" which I think is a set the Bothy band did many years ago.
We tend to be fairly staid, jigs with jigs, reels with reels, and only occasionally, a faster dance tune following an air.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
Sorry, I meant I prefer to go from a jig or slide to a reel, not a slip jig to a reel. Unless it's a 6/4 tune.
Our session tunes usually stay within types, unless it's a Cape Breton set (one of that sessions' motto is = tunes from all over).
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by vonnieestes
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
My mother always used to ask "If Lúnasa jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?"
I'll sometimes mix slip jigs and hop jigs. And I'll sometimes mix a single jig in with double jigs. But it seems to me that if you're mixing slip jigs, slides, and double jigs, you might run the risk of playing your slides too much like jigs, etc. So for me, it helps me play them 'properly' by separating them into their own sets...
I have been to sessions where they will do some Lúnasaesque time signature swapping, but that is always in a pre-defined session-set that they'll play that way all the time, and to me, that gets old.
In some ways, it's pretty rude to go switching time signatures in a set unannounced...
Pete
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by Reverend
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
tradpiper, I agree with what you're saying about needing the roots to be in the right place... But you can't expect to cultivate the seeds with Seamus Ennis.
I look at a lot of the modern bands as being accessible to people who didn't grow up around the music. Lúnasa has a rather Rock n Roll production, with bass, arrangement, etc. That is going to appeal more to people that grew up on Rock or Country or Jazz.
If you threw Coleman or Ennis at people first off, very few would become interested. I know it took me a good 3 years before I could stomach listening to that stuff, because it didn't appeal to my ear. It STILL doesn't appeal to my ear, but it appeals to my musical taste and desire for knowledge.
The problem arises, as you say, when people just assume that what they're hearing on a modern recording is traditional. So long live sites like this which help us learn where our roots should be firmly planted
Pete
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by Reverend
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
Reverend, your mama was a wise woman
Tradpiper - you make several valid points, but your argument also sounds like one of those generational "old vs. new" discussions. I was in a session once where a talented young fiddle player began a set with a lovely jig, then finished off with a ripping reel. The younger players in the room all smiled and nodded approvingly, while the older players cringed their noses in quiet disapproval. Clearly (at least to me) the effects of the newer trad artists with their stylized arrangements and tune choices ARE having an effect with some of the younger players not initially raised within the tradition.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
I love playing a slip jig followed by a jig. I do it every chance i get. Two sets i particularly like to play, is "an phis fliuch into garret barry's" and "the kesh followed by the swaggering". I think it sounds interesting, and the time change is subtle, yet noticable enough to make you feel it
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by Scrappy the Godo
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
Scrappy, your sets remind me of the Matt Molloy set on his heather breeze disc - Fisherman's slipjig / ships in full sail (jig) / out on the ocean (jig) - lovely set.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Is the Big Man Within
Not 'a set' I know but one tune in 9/8 and 6/8. It works beautifully
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3261
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by hetty
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
Our trio puts Colraine, Butterfly and Morrison in a set. Our upright bass player takes the first go at butterfly (slip jig) as a solo with a nice jazzy groove. Needless to say we are not playing for dancers. The change of pace is fun to play with.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by old and in the way
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
If this is going to become an old vs new question, might I point out that we only have records going as far back as around 1920? From reading and hearing comments from others much more learned than me, it seems that before the 78s out of America started to homogenise Irish music back in Ireland there was far more variety and scope for personal experimentation. Tommy Potts, Arthur Darley, these guys played stuff how they felt it, not according some rules as dictated by those claiming to be "pure drop" and "protecting the tradition". The music of these guys, and a lot of east clare music as well, shows that it wasn't always and still isn't purely a dance music tradition, and that there is scope for personal expression at the compromise of rhythmic integrity and dance-ability.
Slip jigs work great with jigs and changing to and from reels, hornpipes, anything, can add a lot to the message of a persons' playing. Trying to freeze-dry living tradition doesn't help it either.
kjay
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by kjay_bc_box
Re: jigs and slip jigs within a set.
Here's another 6/9 9/8 jig.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2856
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by dafydd