When I started learning the Anglo concertina about 8 months ago, I took the advice on John Williams' tutorial DVD and corrected how I held the concertina, so that the bellows rested on my leg (central to the instrument). This was suggested so that you could move both ends of the concertina, rather than just one, which John Williams stated was not good technique.
I've now just started lessons with a local reacher, and one of the first things he told me was to change all this, so that I had one end resting on my leg! He says the other method can cause wear to the bellows.
Having looked at many photos of players, with their many individual stances based on either of the above, there seems to be no right and wrong in all this. However, I'd love to hear from players out there any opinions they might have on which is best, or what they reckon are the pros and cons of each method. I'd much rather stick to the way I'm holding the instrument at present, unless there are any really big reasons against it.
i think that logic and common sense dictate that indeed it is true that keeping the bellows off your leg(s) saves wear and tear on said bellows over the long haul, which is a good thing. chris droney and gearoid o'hallmhorain are two i've heard voice this point.
but i think that it's also true that plenty of fantastic concertina players, including contemporary players, put this consideration second to doing what they personally have to do for best control and response, and , thus, sound. so if resting on the leg is honestly gonna give you optimal playing control (and it might not), i say, the key words are "long haul." you can have your bellows replaced if the day ever comes. i personally painfully adjuted to the use-the-edge-not-the-bellows thing because i'm neurotic and i can't stand the thought that i might be "hurting" the concertina....but if you go into the "comhaltas live" videos and watch them all, you'll see lovely players doing different things.
Yes, I agree that it is generally believed that by resting the bellows on the leg, you run the risk of wearing out the bellows. However, I have also seen comments on concertina.net from someone who repairs them to the effect that worn bellows is the least of the damage he sees. He said that twisted bellows from another bad technique would be more common and probably more damaging to the playing ability than resting the bellows on your knee. He also mentioned that it would take a long time to wear out the bellows which now a days can be replaced fairly easily. I find it slightly uncomfortable trying to rest just one side on my knee and would find that I allow part of the bellows on to my knee but like ceemonster would be worried and try not to !!!! I also was told that you push and pull on your right hand but am not sure that I stick to that religeously either, sometimes using the left as well. I think that whatever helps you to get the sound or play in the way you want to might be the way to go whilst at the same time accepting that the cost of a new bellows in the future might be a small price to pay. I'd be more concerned about getting fingering and technique right than worried about bellows although like ceemonster I have never liked contributing to "damaging" an instrument. However all instruments eventually need to be repaired in some way- frets replaced, finger boards replaced, reeds retuned from hard playing etc, so what is a new bellows?
As ceemonster says, you'll see top notch players divided amongst several different positions. Your teacher's method of resting one end on a leg (right or left) is common. Another common method is resting both ends on the legs (one on each), with legs fairly close together. I think -- although I can't remember for certain -- that Edel Fox uses this method. And Bertram Levy recommends it in his "Anglo Concertina Demystified" book. Let's face it, you don't need (or want) to move the ends over too wide a range, and resting an end (or both) may give you a feeling of stability. If you're an enthusiastic foot stomper, however, you may not want to rest an end on the leg that's moving up and down. That being said, there a excellent players who do just that without problem.
In any case, don't be afraid to experiment. You'll find that you can quickly become comfortable with a new resting position. It's not like learning a new fingering position (e.g. across-the-rows vs. within-the-rows).
Noel Hill, for one, teaches people to rest the instrument on one leg, and he also advises to keep one hand still and move the bellows with the other. He even has an adage about this ... something about your one (still) hand being like the Cliffs of Moher ... anyone remember the rest?
I think it's your one hand being like the Cliffs of Moher and the other hand being like the Kesh. Or maybe it was the Connaughtman's Rambles. Or was it that one hand was Dan Collins' Father's and the other hand was John Naughton's? And Edel Fox could make great music with the bellows resting on her nose and pushing the buttons with her toes!
i know two concertina players. Allister Anderson is rather flamboyant and waves his concertina around everywhere. I have never seen him teach really. The other one i know is John Spiers, who just teaches to rest it on one leg. Both are really good players.
Noel Hill get me into turning the box forward some 10 degrees, rather than keeping it upright - it seems to help the wrist/finger position.
He also got me trying to keep the ends parallel rather than get the ends in a 'V' shape - keep the movement smooth - waving the bellows about is unneccesary effort.
Much to the wifes derision, he also told me to keep my right hand end facing my knee to deaden the sound a bit as the treble end was too loud. (she said it was all too loud)
Quite a few players to bounce the concertina on their knee occasionally to get an attack - you have to have control of it before you try that.
Thanks for all your thoughts. Beyond anything else it's interesting to hear your opinions, and how you all hold it, etc.
The way I'm playing at the moment, with the bellows resting on my leg, I also made sure that I play keeping the bellows pretty much straight. Also, although I do move both ends, I tend to move the left side a great deal more than the right.
It's interesting that the two players that really got me started - Padraig Rynne and Chris Sherburn - both use the 'on the leg' method. I wonder how much it effects your overall style.
I'll give the other style another try, although it naturally feels pretty strange and alien. Not helped by the fact that my concertina is a Connor, which although not the heaviest around is still pretty heavy, so that the arm holding the end in the air gets tired pretty quickly.
it doesnt matter what type of concertina you play ,if you rest your bellows on your leg you will wear your bellows out,more quickly.if youonly have one concertina this means you will have nothing to play,while your concertina is being repaired.
Iplay English and Duet,I play standing up AND sitting down.
When I am sitting down I rest the left concertina end on my leg,and coccasionally I wave the concertina off my leg for short periods.,for effect
there are lots of different ways of holding the concertina,you have to find that ,which suits you best,
I would advise like your teacher,just to save on your bellows,
good players are good players because they have natural ability and have practised hard.at the end of the day it is the music you produce that is important.,
Finally everybodies physical anatomy is different,and it is a mistake to be too didactic about what is correct,thatwhich might suit someone who is five foot two with small hands,and slight physique,will be different from that someone who is six feet withlarge body and hands.
but if you want to wear your bellows out more quickly,do asJohn Williams says.[Ihope youown more than one concertina].
bellows should not be places on your knee becasue this teqnique indeed can cause damage to trhe bellows and you will not get as loud and clear of a sound!
I rest the corner (just left of the lable on the left-and side) on my left knee. It's the only part touching my leg. The concertinarests at an angle that feels comfortable for my wrists and the bellows only need to be lifted as gravity pulls them back.
The bellows on the leg position has much to recommend it in stability. Don't worry about wearing out the bellows, they are a consumable. They will wear much less quickly if you have clean trousers and if the fabric is not coarse.
Where I live worn bellows is usually a sign that the concertina has spent time on the other side of the ranges in the desert where in the past people have had dust in their clothes as a matter of course. This wears the bellows fast.
An option to reduce bellows wear is to get a piece of chamois leather (available from auto parts stores) and to drape it over your leg before you rest the concertina on it. A small piece should fit in your case.
In reference to alec b's comment above. I actually hold the solid part of the concertina on my left leg. This leaves the bellow suspended between my legs, therefore preventing them from 'wearing' and it also allows me to control the instrument with my right hand - my stronger arm. It may sometimes look like I have it on both knees as I try not to sit with my legs apart!!!!!!!!!
Anglo concertina playing positions
Anglo concertina playing positions
When I started learning the Anglo concertina about 8 months ago, I took the advice on John Williams' tutorial DVD and corrected how I held the concertina, so that the bellows rested on my leg (central to the instrument). This was suggested so that you could move both ends of the concertina, rather than just one, which John Williams stated was not good technique.
I've now just started lessons with a local reacher, and one of the first things he told me was to change all this, so that I had one end resting on my leg! He says the other method can cause wear to the bellows.
Having looked at many photos of players, with their many individual stances based on either of the above, there seems to be no right and wrong in all this. However, I'd love to hear from players out there any opinions they might have on which is best, or what they reckon are the pros and cons of each method. I'd much rather stick to the way I'm holding the instrument at present, unless there are any really big reasons against it.
Cheers all
Mike
# Posted on August 13th 2007 by Mike C
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
i think that logic and common sense dictate that indeed it is true that keeping the bellows off your leg(s) saves wear and tear on said bellows over the long haul, which is a good thing. chris droney and gearoid o'hallmhorain are two i've heard voice this point.
but i think that it's also true that plenty of fantastic concertina players, including contemporary players, put this consideration second to doing what they personally have to do for best control and response, and , thus, sound. so if resting on the leg is honestly gonna give you optimal playing control (and it might not), i say, the key words are "long haul." you can have your bellows replaced if the day ever comes. i personally painfully adjuted to the use-the-edge-not-the-bellows thing because i'm neurotic and i can't stand the thought that i might be "hurting" the concertina....but if you go into the "comhaltas live" videos and watch them all, you'll see lovely players doing different things.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by ceemonster
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
Yes, I agree that it is generally believed that by resting the bellows on the leg, you run the risk of wearing out the bellows. However, I have also seen comments on concertina.net from someone who repairs them to the effect that worn bellows is the least of the damage he sees. He said that twisted bellows from another bad technique would be more common and probably more damaging to the playing ability than resting the bellows on your knee. He also mentioned that it would take a long time to wear out the bellows which now a days can be replaced fairly easily. I find it slightly uncomfortable trying to rest just one side on my knee and would find that I allow part of the bellows on to my knee but like ceemonster would be worried and try not to !!!! I also was told that you push and pull on your right hand but am not sure that I stick to that religeously either, sometimes using the left as well. I think that whatever helps you to get the sound or play in the way you want to might be the way to go whilst at the same time accepting that the cost of a new bellows in the future might be a small price to pay. I'd be more concerned about getting fingering and technique right than worried about bellows although like ceemonster I have never liked contributing to "damaging" an instrument. However all instruments eventually need to be repaired in some way- frets replaced, finger boards replaced, reeds retuned from hard playing etc, so what is a new bellows?
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by concertinaplayer
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
The fact that there is a pretty even split between the two major positions goes to show you that you can do either one successfully.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by mcdevincabe
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
As ceemonster says, you'll see top notch players divided amongst several different positions. Your teacher's method of resting one end on a leg (right or left) is common. Another common method is resting both ends on the legs (one on each), with legs fairly close together. I think -- although I can't remember for certain -- that Edel Fox uses this method. And Bertram Levy recommends it in his "Anglo Concertina Demystified" book. Let's face it, you don't need (or want) to move the ends over too wide a range, and resting an end (or both) may give you a feeling of stability. If you're an enthusiastic foot stomper, however, you may not want to rest an end on the leg that's moving up and down. That being said, there a excellent players who do just that without problem.
In any case, don't be afraid to experiment. You'll find that you can quickly become comfortable with a new resting position. It's not like learning a new fingering position (e.g. across-the-rows vs. within-the-rows).
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by alec b
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
Noel Hill, for one, teaches people to rest the instrument on one leg, and he also advises to keep one hand still and move the bellows with the other. He even has an adage about this ... something about your one (still) hand being like the Cliffs of Moher ... anyone remember the rest?
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by csharpd
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
I think it's your one hand being like the Cliffs of Moher and the other hand being like the Kesh. Or maybe it was the Connaughtman's Rambles. Or was it that one hand was Dan Collins' Father's and the other hand was John Naughton's? And Edel Fox could make great music with the bellows resting on her nose and pushing the buttons with her toes!
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by GaryAMartin
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
i know two concertina players. Allister Anderson is rather flamboyant and waves his concertina around everywhere. I have never seen him teach really. The other one i know is John Spiers, who just teaches to rest it on one leg. Both are really good players.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by Djaque
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
Alistair Anderson doesn't play Anglo concertina, - that's merely a point of information - and any time I've seen him playing, he plays standing up.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by Kenny
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
I rest the bellows over the top of my head so I can hear it in stereo.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
Noel Hill get me into turning the box forward some 10 degrees, rather than keeping it upright - it seems to help the wrist/finger position.
He also got me trying to keep the ends parallel rather than get the ends in a 'V' shape - keep the movement smooth - waving the bellows about is unneccesary effort.
Much to the wifes derision, he also told me to keep my right hand end facing my knee to deaden the sound a bit as the treble end was too loud. (she said it was all too loud)
Quite a few players to bounce the concertina on their knee occasionally to get an attack - you have to have control of it before you try that.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
Thanks for all your thoughts. Beyond anything else it's interesting to hear your opinions, and how you all hold it, etc.
The way I'm playing at the moment, with the bellows resting on my leg, I also made sure that I play keeping the bellows pretty much straight. Also, although I do move both ends, I tend to move the left side a great deal more than the right.
It's interesting that the two players that really got me started - Padraig Rynne and Chris Sherburn - both use the 'on the leg' method. I wonder how much it effects your overall style.
I'll give the other style another try, although it naturally feels pretty strange and alien. Not helped by the fact that my concertina is a Connor, which although not the heaviest around is still pretty heavy, so that the arm holding the end in the air gets tired pretty quickly.
Thanks again
Mike
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by Mike C
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
it doesnt matter what type of concertina you play ,if you rest your bellows on your leg you will wear your bellows out,more quickly.if youonly have one concertina this means you will have nothing to play,while your concertina is being repaired.
Iplay English and Duet,I play standing up AND sitting down.
When I am sitting down I rest the left concertina end on my leg,and coccasionally I wave the concertina off my leg for short periods.,for effect
there are lots of different ways of holding the concertina,you have to find that ,which suits you best,
I would advise like your teacher,just to save on your bellows,
good players are good players because they have natural ability and have practised hard.at the end of the day it is the music you produce that is important.,
Finally everybodies physical anatomy is different,and it is a mistake to be too didactic about what is correct,thatwhich might suit someone who is five foot two with small hands,and slight physique,will be different from that someone who is six feet withlarge body and hands.
but if you want to wear your bellows out more quickly,do asJohn Williams says.[Ihope youown more than one concertina].
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by dickens metrognome
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
bellows should not be places on your knee becasue this teqnique indeed can cause damage to trhe bellows and you will not get as loud and clear of a sound!
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by keys05
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
I rest the corner (just left of the lable on the left-and side) on my left knee. It's the only part touching my leg. The concertinarests at an angle that feels comfortable for my wrists and the bellows only need to be lifted as gravity pulls them back.
# Posted on August 14th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
The bellows on the leg position has much to recommend it in stability. Don't worry about wearing out the bellows, they are a consumable. They will wear much less quickly if you have clean trousers and if the fabric is not coarse.
Where I live worn bellows is usually a sign that the concertina has spent time on the other side of the ranges in the desert where in the past people have had dust in their clothes as a matter of course. This wears the bellows fast.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by cag
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
An option to reduce bellows wear is to get a piece of chamois leather (available from auto parts stores) and to drape it over your leg before you rest the concertina on it. A small piece should fit in your case.
# Posted on August 15th 2007 by csharpd
Re: Anglo concertina playing positions
In reference to alec b's comment above. I actually hold the solid part of the concertina on my left leg. This leaves the bellow suspended between my legs, therefore preventing them from 'wearing' and it also allows me to control the instrument with my right hand - my stronger arm. It may sometimes look like I have it on both knees as I try not to sit with my legs apart!!!!!!!!!
# Posted on August 16th 2007 by edelfox