A bit ago I decided to take up the box, I already play fiddle, whistle, harp, bodhran, tenor banjo, octave mando, and gut bucket so I know a bit about traditional music. I made the mistake of ordering a cheap box from lark in the morning, after two months of "being backordered" they sent it to me with some semi g/c tuning that made no sense. I'm getting a refund and putting it with a bit of money I've currently saved up and I'm going to get an instrument instead of a toy. I've been looking at the hohner double ray, the box office has it for $775 which seems like a feckin luvely deal. Any advice on learning or which box to get would be welcome.
Cheers
-Hugh
Dear Hugh
The quoted price for the 1622 Hohner ( in B/C tuning ) is no big deal @ $775. Crazy.
You could have it from Ireland for around $620 + post from the www.boorinwoodmusic.com people brand new.
The export price has the v.a.t. deducted
only you would have a feel for this, but if you think odds are good you will stick with box, save for a little longer and buy a used saltarelle or castagnari in excellent condition. or save for even longer and purchase a new one. if you are going to stick with box, you will outgrow the hohner in about five minutes, and the prices on them today are not cheap. moreover, hohner button action has are issues that for many folks make it impossible or seriously hampering to learn on without investing in expensive re-structuring. it's just not worth it not to buy a better box from the outset. i'm serious. i've been there.
Agree with ceemonster: I too learned that expensive lesson.
If you're unsure, Elderly Instruments in Lansing has B/C Hohners pop up every now and then. Try one. They're also a great source for ITM CDs and training vids. MI does have an ITM community if you dig around. Check out Ann Arbor.
I know political discussion is not welcome on this site but I'm surprised that Jeremy, de Boss has allowed you to choose a moniker that is an overtly political statement. You're certainly entitled to hold whatever views you wish, provided you don't impinge on the rights of others but I kinda think you could be more discreet ...
Well, if we went down that road .. we could all have a bit of 'fun'. I could change my handle to 'George Bush is a B*****' etc. etc. but I don't think some of our USA friends would appreciate and I for one, wouldn't wish to offend them in the first place!!
Why is it that it's a North American, thousands of miles away from Ireland, who chooses a name with IRA in it? Does it all look romantic and freedom fighter stuff from that distance? Grow up.
He is a very knowledgable, likes to talk about accordions, and had more patience with me than I had a right to expect. I had trouble deciding what tuning was best for me, and I changed my mind several times! I have chosen to get a B/C box with Joe Burke basses
E/A D/D
e/a d/d
C/F G/G
c/f g/g
as opposed to more common bass layout:
EM/A G/D
e/a g/d
C/F C/G
c/f c/g
You will notice that the biggest difference is replacing the double C on the push with a D on the push (to play against the F#) and putting both the Gs and Ds on the same button. That gives me a D and a G basses in either bellows direction. I think that this set-up would be the easiest to apply to Celtic music.
Do some research, and try to determing exactly what you need from your instrument, and have Michael build it for you. Mine cost under 1K USD, and wil be tuned dry as I have requested, and the custom bass layout. You probably will not find those options on a Hohner DoubleRay.
seriously look at a C#D. BC is good too, but I switched from a B/C hohner black dot to a big investment Castagnari Kriss IV in C#D. It's taking a little to get my head and fingers around the new fingering pattern, but it really is a good change. Also - playing in G is just as easy as playing on a BC, D is of course natural, A is easier, C is OK, Eb possible, Bb if you're clever... so it's not limiting really...
And while the $ put into a good machine was a bit of a money trauma... people I play with are already saying that my play has improved massively. I advise you to find a cheap one just to satisfy your urge to play if you can't hold off; but definitely save and spend your money on an instrument you respect and one that will give you a great deal of joy for years... not frustration.
best wishes
Nathan
find someone nearby who really knows about boxes. Take him/her with you when thinking of buying whatever box you fancy (get the best you can afford {and get B/C - just my opinion}).
when he/she has cleared the offered box as acceptable in terms of reeds, bellows and keyboard, try it yourself and see if it agrees with you. Take you time, and shop around. Don't buy the first box you try, and don't buy unseen, but if you must, do so from bomb proof reputable trader with return/refund guarantee.
I think I agree with Bliss on this one too - choosing a moniker like "Chucky" is too inflamatory for some folks especially if it is chosen by somebody who doesn't live in Norn Iron. Besides, Marty and Ian inked the peace deal (finally) so there should no longer be the need to say some like this ya?
So the person who started this thread is basically called "Ooh, aah, up the 'Ra".
He's not called "ooh aah up the ra" he's called tiocfaidh ár lá IRA, as it clearly says. Maybe he just respects what the IRA stood for at a certain time,which he has every right to.
I wouldn't use it as my screen name on this site, ach sin scéal eile
tiocfaidh ár lá has been used by some great people .Its also has been used by alot of republicians who have helped the peace process . "Our day will come" can have alot of meanings and I agree with bouble bass he has every right to it...................I find the term "british isles"Offenceive when its refered to Ireland but I don't see the term british isles being banned.
cheers to everyone who helped answer my question, the advice is appreciated. To everyone who was offended by my name I'm very sorry, I wasn't intending to insult you in any way. I appreciate everyone who was polite enough to just come out and say they thought it was offensive. Bodhran bliss, instead of emailing jeremy and making snide little comments you could have just told me that you were offended by the name and asked me to change it. I wasn't crying ooh ah up the ra, I was asking for advice on box playing. I do support the IRA, my grandparents were IRA men and my great grand parents were fenians. I respect everyone's right to there own political beliefs and wasn't trying to attack or infringe on them. And to everyone who was just plain rude I send a resounding póg mo thóin! ; )
ON TOPIC- Call Micaheal at Irishdancemaster since you seem to be in hte US. He is a fantastice resource.
OFF TOPIC: I am with usedbullfrog as one who has had his emails read...On international sites stay non-political unless you really intend something. The NSA/DIA guys following internet traffic do not have a sense of humor. Seriously
this is a freindly site. My wife let me take up box so I had something else to do besides political rabble rousing which got me in deep dooo with the Current Occupant in Washington.
well lads, congratulations to my friends who indirectly solved their problem by crying to a figure of authority. Bodhran bliss, you must be gifted with the bardic gift, jeremy sent me a wonderfully rude and snide email "asking" me to change my username. Thanks to all who were kind enough to answer a simple question without getting their panties in a bunch. Three cheers for censorship and impolite arsemonkeys!!!
Bliss, leave saint and double bass out of it, I'm the one being the arsemonkey here, direct your ad hominem arguments toward me. If you noticed, I changed my name and I did apologize to everyone who was polite enough to remain civil. I'll even apologize to you. I honestly am sorry that I offended you, I really wasn't trying to p*ss anyone off. I am in the wrong, I should have thought more carefully about who might get offended. I don't take back the arsemonkey thing though, you were very rude and I didn't aprreciate it. I also have little respect for someone who cries to figures of authority before trying to solve a problem with words. Now I am done, I have a new user name, I will no longer discuss politics, I know most poeple probably hate me now but I'm putting it all behind me and will discuss music only from now on.
Haud - please know that if someone had conversely created a moniker like "Up the UVF" or the "Michael Stone fan club," many of us would have also requested a change. It wasn't an attack on your personal politics as much as just a request to keep inflamatory monikers away from this web-site.
Bliss - I hope you'll accept his apology. Congrats on the final troop pull-out this week and good luck to Ian P and Marty. I have friends and family in Owenvarragh gardens and this is the most optimistic they have been in years. Good luck all.
IT's just an initiation ritual they go through....Sound like the handle was a complication!
On the politics, I wouldn't worry too much. Haven't heard recently about anyone here getting sent to Guantanamo yet for saying nasties about certain deciders in chiefs in the US...
And look at it this way, they would not send a box player to Guantanamo....Exposing the other prisoners there to our practice might be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
Arsemonkey sounds decidedly homophobic/racist, which is hardly surprising. But then it was me who was rude?
I just survived 38 years of mayhem, although there was a sectarian riot across the street two nights ago, and I did not have the benefit of supporting this mayhem from a vantage point in Michigan.
Owenvarragh Park surrounds Casement Park GAA stadium, the same one the two soldiers died in. I actually went to school in the stadium, before our local school was built. And the love of my life, circa 1971 lived there. Happy days.
And Haud yer, apologising with an accusation is not a great tactic. OK, maybe you do not know the score, but you should be grateful that in Norn Ireland we are now advised to use the proper authorities, by Mr Adams no less. Think of the alternative.
fair play bliss, arsemonkey is in no way homophobic or racist though, i did use it in reference to myself. I think I might have picked it up from father jack hackett. I have no place arguing politics with someone who knows more than I do and has more experience, that's why I have never once attempted to debate them with you. My user name was uncalled for and I've already admitted I'm wrong. And thank you to jusa nutter eejit, you make a good point, cheers for staying level headed and sorry for my inconsiderate behaviour.
Box Beginnings
Box Beginnings
A bit ago I decided to take up the box, I already play fiddle, whistle, harp, bodhran, tenor banjo, octave mando, and gut bucket so I know a bit about traditional music. I made the mistake of ordering a cheap box from lark in the morning, after two months of "being backordered" they sent it to me with some semi g/c tuning that made no sense. I'm getting a refund and putting it with a bit of money I've currently saved up and I'm going to get an instrument instead of a toy. I've been looking at the hohner double ray, the box office has it for $775 which seems like a feckin luvely deal. Any advice on learning or which box to get would be welcome.
Cheers
-Hugh
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
It should be "Beidh ar la ann". Tiocfaidh is pidgin Irish.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Box Beginnings
Seems to be alot of interest in playing box lately.
A Grand sign of things to come. A true Renaissance for musical conesseurs (can't spell worth a damn!)
try this one on instead of having me, Al Brown, Dinn2, MYBC, and many others repeat ourselves
http://thesession.org/discussions/display/14459/comments#comment298339
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by zippydw
Re: Box Beginnings
Dear Hugh
The quoted price for the 1622 Hohner ( in B/C tuning ) is no big deal @ $775. Crazy.
You could have it from Ireland for around $620 + post from the www.boorinwoodmusic.com people brand new.
The export price has the v.a.t. deducted
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by lenamore Man
Re: Box Beginnings
cheers for the advice, grammatical, musical, and economical. I will use it all!
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
only you would have a feel for this, but if you think odds are good you will stick with box, save for a little longer and buy a used saltarelle or castagnari in excellent condition. or save for even longer and purchase a new one. if you are going to stick with box, you will outgrow the hohner in about five minutes, and the prices on them today are not cheap. moreover, hohner button action has are issues that for many folks make it impossible or seriously hampering to learn on without investing in expensive re-structuring. it's just not worth it not to buy a better box from the outset. i'm serious. i've been there.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by ceemonster
Re: Box Beginnings
I agree with cee.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Box Beginnings
Agree with ceemonster: I too learned that expensive lesson.
If you're unsure, Elderly Instruments in Lansing has B/C Hohners pop up every now and then. Try one. They're also a great source for ITM CDs and training vids. MI does have an ITM community if you dig around. Check out Ann Arbor.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by Jerze
Re: Box Beginnings
Hohners sound great if you want to put up with the buttons disappearing down the holes every time you press them. Be warned.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by upmine3
Re: Box Beginnings
I know political discussion is not welcome on this site but I'm surprised that Jeremy, de Boss has allowed you to choose a moniker that is an overtly political statement. You're certainly entitled to hold whatever views you wish, provided you don't impinge on the rights of others but I kinda think you could be more discreet ...
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by the wounded hussar
Re: Box Beginnings
Someone else has finally noticed. I have just e-mailed Jeremy on the subject.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Box Beginnings
Well, if we went down that road .. we could all have a bit of 'fun'. I could change my handle to 'George Bush is a B*****' etc. etc. but I don't think some of our USA friends would appreciate and I for one, wouldn't wish to offend them in the first place!!
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by the wounded hussar
George W. Bush
No offence taken by this American. However, I'd be careful - the CIA is probably monitoring this discussion this very moment.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by usedbullfrog
Re: Box Beginnings
Why is it that it's a North American, thousands of miles away from Ireland, who chooses a name with IRA in it? Does it all look romantic and freedom fighter stuff from that distance? Grow up.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Box Beginnings
Give Michael a call at Irish Dancemaster the website:
http://www.irishdancemaster.com/accordion.html.
He is a very knowledgable, likes to talk about accordions, and had more patience with me than I had a right to expect. I had trouble deciding what tuning was best for me, and I changed my mind several times! I have chosen to get a B/C box with Joe Burke basses
E/A D/D
e/a d/d
C/F G/G
c/f g/g
as opposed to more common bass layout:
EM/A G/D
e/a g/d
C/F C/G
c/f c/g
You will notice that the biggest difference is replacing the double C on the push with a D on the push (to play against the F#) and putting both the Gs and Ds on the same button. That gives me a D and a G basses in either bellows direction. I think that this set-up would be the easiest to apply to Celtic music.
Do some research, and try to determing exactly what you need from your instrument, and have Michael build it for you. Mine cost under 1K USD, and wil be tuned dry as I have requested, and the custom bass layout. You probably will not find those options on a Hohner DoubleRay.
Good Luck!
GoatBasher
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by GoatBasher
Re: Box Beginnings
"Tiocfaidh ar la" is the rallying cry of the IRA. It allegedly means "Our day will come" although it is a bit of a cobbled, pidgin Irish saying.
So the person who started this thread is basically called "Ooh, aah, up the 'Ra".
As the Hussar points out, I doubt if I would get away with calling myself "Bin Laden: my hero" whether I supported that idea or not.
And I do not think an offensive to some moniker should be allowed.
I tried to point this out without giving too much publicity to the sentiment, but alas, the use of the Irish language fooled many.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Box Beginnings
seriously look at a C#D. BC is good too, but I switched from a B/C hohner black dot to a big investment Castagnari Kriss IV in C#D. It's taking a little to get my head and fingers around the new fingering pattern, but it really is a good change. Also - playing in G is just as easy as playing on a BC, D is of course natural, A is easier, C is OK, Eb possible, Bb if you're clever... so it's not limiting really...
And while the $ put into a good machine was a bit of a money trauma... people I play with are already saying that my play has improved massively. I advise you to find a cheap one just to satisfy your urge to play if you can't hold off; but definitely save and spend your money on an instrument you respect and one that will give you a great deal of joy for years... not frustration.
best wishes
Nathan
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by Brown Creeper
Re: Box Beginnings
OFFTOPIC:
> I already play fiddle, whistle, harp, bodhran, tenor banjo, octave mando, and gut bucket...
Where do you get the time for all those and the box too??? I can concentrate seriously to one instrument at a time only and half-seriously to another.
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by Risto
Re: Box Beginnings
Hugh
find someone nearby who really knows about boxes. Take him/her with you when thinking of buying whatever box you fancy (get the best you can afford {and get B/C - just my opinion}).
when he/she has cleared the offered box as acceptable in terms of reeds, bellows and keyboard, try it yourself and see if it agrees with you. Take you time, and shop around. Don't buy the first box you try, and don't buy unseen, but if you must, do so from bomb proof reputable trader with return/refund guarantee.
good luck
# Posted on July 31st 2007 by millionyears_bc
Re: Box Beginnings
I think I agree with Bliss on this one too - choosing a moniker like "Chucky" is too inflamatory for some folks especially if it is chosen by somebody who doesn't live in Norn Iron. Besides, Marty and Ian inked the peace deal (finally) so there should no longer be the need to say some like this ya?
Now back to the music....
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Box Beginnings
So the person who started this thread is basically called "Ooh, aah, up the 'Ra".
He's not called "ooh aah up the ra" he's called tiocfaidh ár lá IRA, as it clearly says. Maybe he just respects what the IRA stood for at a certain time,which he has every right to.
I wouldn't use it as my screen name on this site, ach sin scéal eile
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by double bass
Re: Box Beginnings
tiocfaidh ár lá has been used by some great people .Its also has been used by alot of republicians who have helped the peace process . "Our day will come" can have alot of meanings and I agree with bouble bass he has every right to it...................I find the term "british isles"Offenceive when its refered to Ireland but I don't see the term british isles being banned.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Saint
Re: Box Beginnings
I'm glad there aren't many people wavered by my choice of handel.
If they are. I'm sorry. I'ts just a joke.
Ta me ag magadh fuaibh
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Box Beginnings
cheers to everyone who helped answer my question, the advice is appreciated. To everyone who was offended by my name I'm very sorry, I wasn't intending to insult you in any way. I appreciate everyone who was polite enough to just come out and say they thought it was offensive. Bodhran bliss, instead of emailing jeremy and making snide little comments you could have just told me that you were offended by the name and asked me to change it. I wasn't crying ooh ah up the ra, I was asking for advice on box playing. I do support the IRA, my grandparents were IRA men and my great grand parents were fenians. I respect everyone's right to there own political beliefs and wasn't trying to attack or infringe on them. And to everyone who was just plain rude I send a resounding póg mo thóin! ; )
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
Since some people were obviously offended by your name, unless you wish to continue that offence, maybe you should change it.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Kenny
Re: Box Beginnings
....Oh No.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Box Beginnings
ON TOPIC- Call Micaheal at Irishdancemaster since you seem to be in hte US. He is a fantastice resource.
OFF TOPIC: I am with usedbullfrog as one who has had his emails read...On international sites stay non-political unless you really intend something. The NSA/DIA guys following internet traffic do not have a sense of humor. Seriously
this is a freindly site. My wife let me take up box so I had something else to do besides political rabble rousing which got me in deep dooo with the Current Occupant in Washington.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by zippydw
Re: Box Beginnings
my spelling is terrible. The name is correctly Michael.
Very sorry. He has been wonderfully patient with me.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by zippydw
Re: Box Beginnings
well lads, congratulations to my friends who indirectly solved their problem by crying to a figure of authority. Bodhran bliss, you must be gifted with the bardic gift, jeremy sent me a wonderfully rude and snide email "asking" me to change my username. Thanks to all who were kind enough to answer a simple question without getting their panties in a bunch. Three cheers for censorship and impolite arsemonkeys!!!
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
tosser
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Box Beginnings
now who needs to grow up buddy? ; )
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
you, definitely.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Box Beginnings
Awright, you win'with that convincing argument. I'm on my way to grow up. Sorry mate, hope we can put it behind us
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
Changing your name to something acceptable is a good start. Good luck on the rest of the journey.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Box Beginnings
Saint, and Double bass, I have all sorts of political beliefs and opinions, but use them on other sites.
Haud yer Weesht, now resorting to calling people arsemonkeys and such, If you have a problem with me call anytime to West Belfast to discuss.
You want to fight for freedom, try a bit closer to your own door. Plenty of opportunity there.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Box Beginnings
Yep, and on the next stage of the journey an apology for that wouldn't go amiss.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Box Beginnings
Bliss, leave saint and double bass out of it, I'm the one being the arsemonkey here, direct your ad hominem arguments toward me. If you noticed, I changed my name and I did apologize to everyone who was polite enough to remain civil. I'll even apologize to you. I honestly am sorry that I offended you, I really wasn't trying to p*ss anyone off. I am in the wrong, I should have thought more carefully about who might get offended. I don't take back the arsemonkey thing though, you were very rude and I didn't aprreciate it. I also have little respect for someone who cries to figures of authority before trying to solve a problem with words. Now I am done, I have a new user name, I will no longer discuss politics, I know most poeple probably hate me now but I'm putting it all behind me and will discuss music only from now on.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
What's an 'arse monkey'? Is it on of those baboons with blue bums?
Is that a really bad insult in Michigan?
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Ottery
Re: Box Beginnings
Haud - please know that if someone had conversely created a moniker like "Up the UVF" or the "Michael Stone fan club," many of us would have also requested a change. It wasn't an attack on your personal politics as much as just a request to keep inflamatory monikers away from this web-site.
Bliss - I hope you'll accept his apology. Congrats on the final troop pull-out this week and good luck to Ian P and Marty. I have friends and family in Owenvarragh gardens and this is the most optimistic they have been in years. Good luck all.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Box Beginnings
HDY
IT's just an initiation ritual they go through....Sound like the handle was a complication!
On the politics, I wouldn't worry too much. Haven't heard recently about anyone here getting sent to Guantanamo yet for saying nasties about certain deciders in chiefs in the US...
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by zippydw
Re: Box Beginnings
And look at it this way, they would not send a box player to Guantanamo....Exposing the other prisoners there to our practice might be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by zippydw
Re: Box Beginnings
Arsemonkey sounds decidedly homophobic/racist, which is hardly surprising. But then it was me who was rude?
I just survived 38 years of mayhem, although there was a sectarian riot across the street two nights ago, and I did not have the benefit of supporting this mayhem from a vantage point in Michigan.
Owenvarragh Park surrounds Casement Park GAA stadium, the same one the two soldiers died in. I actually went to school in the stadium, before our local school was built. And the love of my life, circa 1971 lived there. Happy days.
And Haud yer, apologising with an accusation is not a great tactic. OK, maybe you do not know the score, but you should be grateful that in Norn Ireland we are now advised to use the proper authorities, by Mr Adams no less. Think of the alternative.
Happy playing.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Box Beginnings
Whatever your name is now,
Please do not misuse our language through your ignorance of it.
Please have respect for those of us who live in the North and have defended our culture in difficult circumstances,
Please do not misuse this place where we can all share and have fun and learn from each other.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Pól
Re: Box Beginnings
fair play bliss, arsemonkey is in no way homophobic or racist though, i did use it in reference to myself. I think I might have picked it up from father jack hackett. I have no place arguing politics with someone who knows more than I do and has more experience, that's why I have never once attempted to debate them with you. My user name was uncalled for and I've already admitted I'm wrong. And thank you to jusa nutter eejit, you make a good point, cheers for staying level headed and sorry for my inconsiderate behaviour.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by Aodh Rúadh
Re: Box Beginnings
Sorted.
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Box Beginnings
I have a CD by an American band called the AssPonys.
I can't get the image out of my head of a zoo somewhere in North America, full of ArseMonkeys, AssPonys, and maybe even those terrible AssGiraffes!
# Posted on August 2nd 2007 by bc_box_player
Re: Box Beginnings
the land of oppurtunity
# Posted on August 2nd 2007 by Aodh Rúadh