Been playing fiddle for about 2 months now. Coming along nicely (was classical before!). But rolls on G (d string) are kicking my butt!! Maids of Mont Cisco requires speed and using 4th finger for the rolls just doesn't work!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
All depends on your background, I guess. The 4th finger rolls are the easiest for me, it's the 1st finger that's driving me nuts. I'm a long time mandolin and guitar player turned fiddler, so maybe my 4th finger has benefitted from the higher string tension. I dunno.
So basically no tricks... just lots and lots of practice! My background is classical violin... whenever there was a lot 4th finger stuff... you just shift into 2nd or 3rd position and use a different finger. thanks though...
Um--what's all this about "power," as though rolls required strength?
In a clean, crisp roll your "cutting" finger (for the upper note) never actually presses the string to the fingerboard, so isn't it more about quickness and timing? Really, it's just a flick on the string that interrupts its vibration, so "power" seems an odd concern. I get more a sense of fast-twitch lightness than strength or power.
That said, you will get more "pop" in your rolls if you use the lead-in note to wind-up the little finger, pulling it up and away from the target string, before the pounce. Reaching over to the G and D strings tends to crumple the arch of your palm, so that wind up doesn't come as easily for rolls on those strings. There's no doubt some muscle retraining to do there, but it's more about increasing range of motion and avoiding postural (in the hand) tension than developing new "power." So practice it on the E and A strings before moving on to the D and G. It also helps if your fiddle is tilted toward your bow arm, rather than horizontal (with the top facing the ceiling), in effect rotating the fingerboard for easier access to the D and G strings.
Also, in Maids of Mount Cisco, if you're using bowed triplets on the open A's, why not use triplets on the D-string G's as well? (At least until your rolls improve.) Listen to Sean Smyth's version on either Lunasa (debut cd) or Otherworld for an example of this.
Mind you, rolls don't come easy for anyone--they take concentrated effort and perseverance, so don't beat yourself up after only two months. Give it two years (or two decades and then you can commiserate with the rest of us about our lack of consistent rolls.... Good luck!
Sorry, on Otherworld Sean's triplets on the D string are in Dr. Gilbert's (aka Dispute at the Crossroads), not Maids of Mount Cisco. But it's the same effect.
Thanks! Appreciate the advice. Coming from classical proves how different/difficult/etc... fiddling really is. When talking of "power" it was more the lack of any muscle in my pinky... need to work on that. Thanks again... will keep on it!
Anyone coming from a classical background, try looking back again at Kreutzer's Etudes - no. 16 or 17, I think. Anyway, it's almost all trills using 4th finger. I know I find the rolls on a G easier than some from practising that one, it makes your pinky stronger, then to use it lightly - thanks, Will : ) and with controlled timing is easier. I remember a teacher telling me to focus more on lifting, not pressing down the finger. Great advice! Depends how badly you want to roll, just how willing you are to work that pinky.
Good luck!
Helen
Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Been playing fiddle for about 2 months now. Coming along nicely (was classical before!). But rolls on G (d string) are kicking my butt!! Maids of Mont Cisco requires speed and using 4th finger for the rolls just doesn't work!
Any advice would be much appreciated.
alisha
# Posted on March 2nd 2003 by scaryakgrl
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
All depends on your background, I guess. The 4th finger rolls are the easiest for me, it's the 1st finger that's driving me nuts. I'm a long time mandolin and guitar player turned fiddler, so maybe my 4th finger has benefitted from the higher string tension. I dunno.
# Posted on March 2nd 2003 by ScottC
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
I agree with Scott. Cellists use their 4th fingers more than fiddlers do, and cello strings require more finger power than fiddle strings.
# Posted on March 2nd 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
So basically no tricks... just lots and lots of practice! My background is classical violin... whenever there was a lot 4th finger stuff... you just shift into 2nd or 3rd position and use a different finger. thanks though...
alisha
# Posted on March 2nd 2003 by scaryakgrl
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Um--what's all this about "power," as though rolls required strength?
and then you can commiserate with the rest of us about our lack of consistent rolls.... Good luck!
In a clean, crisp roll your "cutting" finger (for the upper note) never actually presses the string to the fingerboard, so isn't it more about quickness and timing? Really, it's just a flick on the string that interrupts its vibration, so "power" seems an odd concern. I get more a sense of fast-twitch lightness than strength or power.
That said, you will get more "pop" in your rolls if you use the lead-in note to wind-up the little finger, pulling it up and away from the target string, before the pounce. Reaching over to the G and D strings tends to crumple the arch of your palm, so that wind up doesn't come as easily for rolls on those strings. There's no doubt some muscle retraining to do there, but it's more about increasing range of motion and avoiding postural (in the hand) tension than developing new "power." So practice it on the E and A strings before moving on to the D and G. It also helps if your fiddle is tilted toward your bow arm, rather than horizontal (with the top facing the ceiling), in effect rotating the fingerboard for easier access to the D and G strings.
Also, in Maids of Mount Cisco, if you're using bowed triplets on the open A's, why not use triplets on the D-string G's as well? (At least until your rolls improve.) Listen to Sean Smyth's version on either Lunasa (debut cd) or Otherworld for an example of this.
Mind you, rolls don't come easy for anyone--they take concentrated effort and perseverance, so don't beat yourself up after only two months. Give it two years (or two decades
# Posted on March 2nd 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Sorry, on Otherworld Sean's triplets on the D string are in Dr. Gilbert's (aka Dispute at the Crossroads), not Maids of Mount Cisco. But it's the same effect.
# Posted on March 3rd 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Will's right, tain't the muscle, it's the speed I should have been talking about.
# Posted on March 3rd 2003 by ScottC
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Thanks! Appreciate the advice. Coming from classical proves how different/difficult/etc... fiddling really is. When talking of "power" it was more the lack of any muscle in my pinky... need to work on that. Thanks again... will keep on it!
alisha
# Posted on March 3rd 2003 by scaryakgrl
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
Anyone coming from a classical background, try looking back again at Kreutzer's Etudes - no. 16 or 17, I think. Anyway, it's almost all trills using 4th finger. I know I find the rolls on a G easier than some from practising that one, it makes your pinky stronger, then to use it lightly - thanks, Will : ) and with controlled timing is easier. I remember a teacher telling me to focus more on lifting, not pressing down the finger. Great advice! Depends how badly you want to roll, just how willing you are to work that pinky.
Good luck!
Helen
# Posted on March 3rd 2003 by fiddlefingers
Re: Fiddle Rolls - g on D in particular
If you're having problems with rolls, try http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/428 -- an earlier discussion with lots of good stuff in it. Mainly Will.
Zina
# Posted on March 3rd 2003 by Zina Lee