Music has always played a big role in my life. I've played the piano since I was 7 years old, played percussion in band, and later became the drum major of my high school band. Somewhere in the middle of all of this I absolutely fell in love with traditional Irish music. When I was 16 my mother bought me an open holed wooden flute in D and an instructional book. I quickly mastered the beginning tin whistle book (much easier tunes) and then moved on to the flute book for additional instruction and traditional tunes Soon after I found this site and have lurked around here ever since for new music (great site by the way!) Three years later, I still play every day alternating between my flute and a tinwhistle. I took my first trip to Ireland last year and purchased a bodhran that I experiment with from time to time. I know all the fingerings on the flute and whistle and have memorized several tunes that I've worked up to what seems like the right speed, but I hesitate to refer to myself as anything other than a beginner. I am 99.2% sure I could not handle myself in a session setting, but I would love to reach that level at some point! As there is nowhere near my home to take lessons on any of these instruments, I wonder if I would benefit from a retreat such as O'Flaherty's Irish Music Retreat in Texas? Would I fit in as a self-taught musician with little experience, or would I be in completely over my head?
Ann... seeking instruction is key. Music camps or festivals with workshops are things you can travel to even if they aren't in your area. The connections you make in those places will help you to pursue the music in a way so that you don't end up teaching yourself bad habits.
I don't think being "self-taught" should stop you from doing anything musically. And as for being inexperienced, the only answer is to get more experience any way you can!
Also make sure to actively listen to the music as much as possible. Get your hands on plenty of good CDs (not just flute players either) and immerse yourself totally in the music.
You can learn the mechanics of an instrument, but it'll do you no good if the music is not in your head.
Get as much experience as you can, by all means go to festivals and workshops, but lots of listening is the key.
You seem rather precious and nervous about all this.
Get you arse down as many sessions as possible and play, drink, talk and play.
Music is music no matter what flavour it is.
You'll soon suss out if anything's wrong, innit?
I see the naughty boys are out in the playground again today. Don't bother with these jokers, I wonder what they were like aged 19. Good advice from tradeshark button and Munichg. Music isn't just music no matter what flavour. There's good music and there's crap music. Crap music is inflicted upon us by people who don't have a clue what's going on in this music but think it is their god-given right to barge into other peoples' sessions thrashing out a handful of chords, or badly playing a handful of tunes. You are right to be cautious, but also don't be deterred because you're self taught, oh, and, maybe just keep the bodhran indoors to develop your rhythm, for the time being.
C-Ann:
I would say that KML pretty much summed up what you really need to know in approaching any new session experience.
All you should need (IMHO) is common sense, courtesy, and a well-polished mirror to see, and hear, where you really stand as a musician. You should know if you are (currently, at least) over your head, and if what you hear is what you are comfortable with, and then good form should guide you in whether to try to participate or not. Then if you do join in (invited can be better, but use your judgement) everyone is on the same page. Sharing, right? Everybody wins.
Yes, KML is right!
There are only two sorts of music (of any flavour) in the universe good and bad.
And C-Ann (as a musician) would know the difference.
I got into terrible trouble a while ago, when a musician, who described himself as having 30 years experience, asked where you could get a bouzouki teacher in the North of England. I poured scorn on the idea that a musician of 30 years needed a teacher - I never found one as someone with much less experience, when I first purchased a 'zouk. Most of us here are, I suggest, mainly self-taught, from the love of the music, although there are many good teachers about too.
You have asked all the right questions, now is the time to ask some back. What did you do in Ireland apart from buy a bodrhan ? Did you get to hear any sessions, for that is where you can assess your own progress ? The whole point of the music is to play it, and in the company of others, other flute and whistle players to pick up technique, other musicians generally to learn more tunes - never be afraid to ask the name of a tune, even if you can't learn it on the spot, it will usually be here or on other websites, or in printed material.
It is hard to say if you are ready for a residential course yet, but these are always learning experiences for everybody.
Happy camper is right. There must be a full moon out.
I have been playing all sorts of music since I was a kid. Played 'Irish', but got into ITM late. Took my first music lesson at 55. Just because someone is younger, doesn't mean you can't learn something from them. Also, having a separate ear to hear you that is willing to tell you where you are off helps.
My advice. Find a session. Sit, and watch a bit. Someone will invite you to play. From everything I have done, the only way to learn is to stick your nose in do the best you can. Just learn from the more experienced folk. They might also suggest someone who can help you get up to speed in the session.
One word of caution from a box player who had to learn to turn the power down a bit to someone with a bodhran. Be very careful to learn how and when to fit in. People are alienated by an overwhelmin player very quickly.
"Would I fit in as a self-taught musician with little experience, or would I be in completely over my head?"
And if none of the above fine pieces of advice don't convince you, then just put on your nicest sunday dress, white socks and shirt, polish your buckle shoes and palm your hair. Then off you go and no one can harm you.
(In the voice of a famous former Labour Party leader)
Everywhere love, this ain't the symphony. We're nearly all self-taught here. Now go do like some of these good folks recommended and GET THEE TO A SESSION! ASAP. Rinse, lather, repeat as often as possible until yer old & gray...and then go more often.
There's nowt wrong with being self-taught. I never had a lesson in the practicalities of making ITM music in my life and I am not alone. Come on Michael, post that excellent review you sent me! I find it rather odd that one of our two resident joker/eejits (not the three-letter one, the other one whose name makes him sound a little backward) doesn't celebrate your situation. After all, he usually preaches about the need to avoid all forms of academic musical contact that involves dots lest it corrupts you for life. It's hard to see how a musician can be not self -taught and yet have avoided the dots! To play successfully in a session is to interact successfully with other musicians. A good thing to do is to find someone who will play along with you or accompany you on a guitar or something so that you get used to interacting. A very odd thing I've found about ITM is that you can learn a tune at home by yourself to what you think is a really secure standard, only to screw up completely in the pub. That's where a fellow conspirator comes in handy, to bridge that gap. And you can bet your life that those two silly sods have both fooled around with a bodhran at some time or other. Who hasn't!
The hardest part about getting good at anything is going through all the negative comments of people who have forgotten what it's like to be starting up. IMHO, the most important thing to becoming a good musician is a difficult combination of humility and arrogance, the humility to admit what you don't know, and the arrogance to take no Sxxt from people with nothing to give except bile. I think you are doing fine, friend.
I was at a lovely session last week, where a guitar player brought one of his little boys and his fiddle. The little boy played some tunes, sat out some tunes, and called a tune or two which we played with him. That is a great father!!
LOL thank you all for your replies! An even bigger thanks to those of you with words of encouragement!
Good grief, I'd been listening to the music for years and years before I even thought about trying to learn! I enjoyed my time in Ireland. I saw some of the sites of course, but I spent nearly every night in a pub somewhere lol. As for the bodhran, it was more of a whim purchase really. I've always admired the sound of a skillfully played bodhran, and bought it out of curiosity to see what I could do with it. LOL I would never consider playing it in public (I'm not terrible though if I do say so myself)!
Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Music has always played a big role in my life. I've played the piano since I was 7 years old, played percussion in band, and later became the drum major of my high school band. Somewhere in the middle of all of this I absolutely fell in love with traditional Irish music. When I was 16 my mother bought me an open holed wooden flute in D and an instructional book. I quickly mastered the beginning tin whistle book (much easier tunes) and then moved on to the flute book for additional instruction and traditional tunes Soon after I found this site and have lurked around here ever since for new music (great site by the way!) Three years later, I still play every day alternating between my flute and a tinwhistle. I took my first trip to Ireland last year and purchased a bodhran that I experiment with from time to time. I know all the fingerings on the flute and whistle and have memorized several tunes that I've worked up to what seems like the right speed, but I hesitate to refer to myself as anything other than a beginner. I am 99.2% sure I could not handle myself in a session setting, but I would love to reach that level at some point! As there is nowhere near my home to take lessons on any of these instruments, I wonder if I would benefit from a retreat such as O'Flaherty's Irish Music Retreat in Texas? Would I fit in as a self-taught musician with little experience, or would I be in completely over my head?
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by C-Ann
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
"I quickly mastered the beginning tin whistle book (much easier tunes)"
That was where you slipped up.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Dow
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
"I took my first trip to Ireland last year and purchased a bodhran that I experiment with from time to time."
That was where you blew it
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Dow
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Ann... seeking instruction is key. Music camps or festivals with workshops are things you can travel to even if they aren't in your area. The connections you make in those places will help you to pursue the music in a way so that you don't end up teaching yourself bad habits.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
I don't think being "self-taught" should stop you from doing anything musically. And as for being inexperienced, the only answer is to get more experience any way you can!
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Munichg
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Also make sure to actively listen to the music as much as possible. Get your hands on plenty of good CDs (not just flute players either) and immerse yourself totally in the music.
You can learn the mechanics of an instrument, but it'll do you no good if the music is not in your head.
Get as much experience as you can, by all means go to festivals and workshops, but lots of listening is the key.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by tradshark
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
"C-Ann"
You seem rather precious and nervous about all this.
Get you arse down as many sessions as possible and play, drink, talk and play.
Music is music no matter what flavour it is.
You'll soon suss out if anything's wrong, innit?
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
"quickly mastered"?
"memorized several tunes"?
"first trip to Ireland last year and purchased a bodhran"?
Come on now, these are all choice phrases deliberately crafted to wind us up. Very clever. I particularly like the subtle use of the z in memorised
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
LOL
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Dow
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
I see the naughty boys are out in the playground again today. Don't bother with these jokers, I wonder what they were like aged 19. Good advice from tradeshark button and Munichg. Music isn't just music no matter what flavour. There's good music and there's crap music. Crap music is inflicted upon us by people who don't have a clue what's going on in this music but think it is their god-given right to barge into other peoples' sessions thrashing out a handful of chords, or badly playing a handful of tunes. You are right to be cautious, but also don't be deterred because you're self taught, oh, and, maybe just keep the bodhran indoors to develop your rhythm, for the time being.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
C-Ann:
I would say that KML pretty much summed up what you really need to know in approaching any new session experience.
All you should need (IMHO) is common sense, courtesy, and a well-polished mirror to see, and hear, where you really stand as a musician. You should know if you are (currently, at least) over your head, and if what you hear is what you are comfortable with, and then good form should guide you in whether to try to participate or not. Then if you do join in (invited can be better, but use your judgement) everyone is on the same page. Sharing, right? Everybody wins.
My two cents.
Cheers.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Rook
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Yes, KML is right!
There are only two sorts of music (of any flavour) in the universe good and bad.
And C-Ann (as a musician) would know the difference.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
I got into terrible trouble a while ago, when a musician, who described himself as having 30 years experience, asked where you could get a bouzouki teacher in the North of England. I poured scorn on the idea that a musician of 30 years needed a teacher - I never found one as someone with much less experience, when I first purchased a 'zouk. Most of us here are, I suggest, mainly self-taught, from the love of the music, although there are many good teachers about too.
You have asked all the right questions, now is the time to ask some back. What did you do in Ireland apart from buy a bodrhan ? Did you get to hear any sessions, for that is where you can assess your own progress ? The whole point of the music is to play it, and in the company of others, other flute and whistle players to pick up technique, other musicians generally to learn more tunes - never be afraid to ask the name of a tune, even if you can't learn it on the spot, it will usually be here or on other websites, or in printed material.
It is hard to say if you are ready for a residential course yet, but these are always learning experiences for everybody.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
The jokers really are out in force. Fuggin 'ell.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by imahappycamper
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Happy camper is right. There must be a full moon out.
I have been playing all sorts of music since I was a kid. Played 'Irish', but got into ITM late. Took my first music lesson at 55. Just because someone is younger, doesn't mean you can't learn something from them. Also, having a separate ear to hear you that is willing to tell you where you are off helps.
My advice. Find a session. Sit, and watch a bit. Someone will invite you to play. From everything I have done, the only way to learn is to stick your nose in do the best you can. Just learn from the more experienced folk. They might also suggest someone who can help you get up to speed in the session.
One word of caution from a box player who had to learn to turn the power down a bit to someone with a bodhran. Be very careful to learn how and when to fit in. People are alienated by an overwhelmin player very quickly.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by zippydw
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
Most Irish musicians are self taught, only pipers have teachers.
And it is only on this site, from non Irish people, that you get warnings about bodhrans.
It is all about having the cajones to sit and do it.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
You mean cojones?
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by G. Marzo
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
"Would I fit in as a self-taught musician with little experience, or would I be in completely over my head?"
And if none of the above fine pieces of advice don't convince you, then just put on your nicest sunday dress, white socks and shirt, polish your buckle shoes and palm your hair. Then off you go and no one can harm you.
(In the voice of a famous former Labour Party leader)
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Risto
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Risto
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
"Where does a self-taught musician fit in?"
Everywhere love, this ain't the symphony. We're nearly all self-taught here. Now go do like some of these good folks recommended and GET THEE TO A SESSION! ASAP. Rinse, lather, repeat as often as possible until yer old & gray...and then go more often.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
I'm probably a worse player than C-Ann and they invited me to play at the session. Keep trying to make me sit closer to 'em, too.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by sbhikes
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
You see, just like non Irish people inventing rules, I am useless at Spanish. Adios.
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
There's nowt wrong with being self-taught. I never had a lesson in the practicalities of making ITM music in my life and I am not alone. Come on Michael, post that excellent review you sent me!
I find it rather odd that one of our two resident joker/eejits (not the three-letter one, the other one whose name makes him sound a little backward) doesn't celebrate your situation. After all, he usually preaches about the need to avoid all forms of academic musical contact that involves dots lest it corrupts you for life. It's hard to see how a musician can be not self -taught and yet have avoided the dots! To play successfully in a session is to interact successfully with other musicians. A good thing to do is to find someone who will play along with you or accompany you on a guitar or something so that you get used to interacting. A very odd thing I've found about ITM is that you can learn a tune at home by yourself to what you think is a really secure standard, only to screw up completely in the pub. That's where a fellow conspirator comes in handy, to bridge that gap. And you can bet your life that those two silly sods have both fooled around with a bodhran at some time or other. Who hasn't!
# Posted on July 24th 2007 by Steve Shaw
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
There is no such thing as being self taught. No man is an Island (except when you're in the bath).
# Posted on July 27th 2007 by llig leahcim
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
haha sesh it dude
# Posted on July 29th 2007 by aoibheann-90
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
The hardest part about getting good at anything is going through all the negative comments of people who have forgotten what it's like to be starting up. IMHO, the most important thing to becoming a good musician is a difficult combination of humility and arrogance, the humility to admit what you don't know, and the arrogance to take no Sxxt from people with nothing to give except bile. I think you are doing fine, friend.
# Posted on July 29th 2007 by hakanozel
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
I was at a lovely session last week, where a guitar player brought one of his little boys and his fiddle. The little boy played some tunes, sat out some tunes, and called a tune or two which we played with him. That is a great father!!
Suzanne.
# Posted on July 29th 2007 by SuzThoughts
Re: Where does a self-taught musician fit in?
LOL thank you all for your replies! An even bigger thanks to those of you with words of encouragement!
Good grief, I'd been listening to the music for years and years before I even thought about trying to learn! I enjoyed my time in Ireland. I saw some of the sites of course, but I spent nearly every night in a pub somewhere lol. As for the bodhran, it was more of a whim purchase really. I've always admired the sound of a skillfully played bodhran, and bought it out of curiosity to see what I could do with it. LOL I would never consider playing it in public (I'm not terrible though if I do say so myself)!
# Posted on August 1st 2007 by C-Ann