hi all.
i have recently just started (trying to) play a wooden keyless flute that was given to me as a present. I had one lesson with a classical flute player that improved my embouchure no end. it's still frustratingly inconsistent, but steadily getting better.
i've found though that i can't reach all the holes using the grip pictured in many books and on sites, and have opted, more successfully, to go with a piper-style grip. however, the flute seems to be trying to make a break for it on notes that involve no holes being covered. (c#)
any advice on stablilising the thing, and in particular, where the left thumb should go if using that kind of grip?
That's one of the problems with that grip, I guess.
But what is the problem with the standard grip? Have you got particularly small hands? You should not need particularly large ones to play the flute. I can't help but wonder if you have somehow misunderstood the standard grip.
I too have just started with the flute and am contemplating the same problems. Last night I went to : http://chiffboard.mati.ca/
and did a search of the forums for "Pipers grip" which brought up some rather long discussions mentioning options for the thumbs (and several other parts of the upper body). I have not quite given up on the 'normal' grip yet though - it is getting less rather than more uncomfortable.
I came into ITM from 20+ years of classical style flute playing and I found that it was useful to keep the fingertip/classical grip on the left hand, but to use a piper's grip on the right hand. As far as embouchure goes, I would practice getting long steady tones (especially on low D) to improve your embouchure. I find that even after playing for many years, my embouchure improves after having played a tune or two as I "lock-in" on it. Listen a lot and try to get a solid tone with as little air (and low volume) as possible. Then push it too the limit the other way and try to keep good tone control at high volume. You can 'feel' it when your emboucure "locks in" and the tone is strong with relatively little effort.
I've been playing wooden flute for close to 20 years and I have very short stubby fingers. I remember it seeming an uncomfortable stretch at first, but after a while it seemed easy. I would highly recommend that you use the traditional grip. Unlike classical flute, you shouldn't arch your fingers, but instead keep them flat and relaxed. Relaxed is probably the key word for a grip that doesn't cause muscular/tendon problems. Also, by keeping the fingers flat you use the fleshiest part of your finger to seal the hole and your finger can move faster and more efficiently. The pads on the ends of your fingers are very sensitive and I think give you a bit more control of the instrument once you get accustomed to the grip.
I agree also about the importance of concentrating on embouchure. Play relatively easy tunes at first in a variety of keys rather than trying to build up a big repertoire. Once your embouchure is solid the rest will be much easier.
Good advice all around. I like Rob Greenway's bit; http://www.geocities.com/feadanach/posture.html
I agree with the comments above.
Right hand pinky down
(you can keep it off until other fingers on your right hand are lifted),
keep your fingers flat on the right hand
(either way on left),
practice embochure (especially low d note).
Cheers!
Here's a question no one as asked yet (surprisingly):
What kind of flute is this? I have frequently been gifted "instruments" before, by a well-meaning friend whose idea of a gift to his musically-inclined comrade may be worth nothing more than a wall-hanging. This is especially true for flutes, as it is common to find an "item" that looks like a lovely "Irish" flute, but is nothing of the sort. These "flute-like objects" hail from the Irish Music Mecca of Pakistan or India, and are generally not regarded as viable musical instruments.
Not to put you off, but sometimes it is the "instrument" and not necessarily the player.
Yes my thoughts exactly- beware of ISO's (Instrument-Shaped Objects), things that LOOK like instruments but don't function. These Pakistani-made Irish flutes are absymal.
Anyhow I've played Irish flute for 30+ years, coming to flute from piping. I used Matt Molloy as my model for how to hold the thing- left hand rather like classical flute, right hand fingers a bit flattened. Like many ITM flute/whistle players I tend to leave down my RH ring finger except when playing E and F#.
Oh- about reaching the holes- Casey Burns for one makes flutes specifically for small-handed people, more ergonomic. If possible try one his flutes. I know of a number of players who much prefer Casey's flutes for that reason.
True about C. Burns' flutes: I began Irish flute from silver/classical background, and my friend recommended Casey exactly for the reasons described by R. Cook. Mine is made for small hands and after trying out two different "sizes" I have found this to be less painful (I really do have small hands!!)
These comments are very helpful, by the way. I'm new to the instrument and don't have a teacher, so I very much hope this particular discussion will keep going. It 's like having a 'virtual' lesson from all of you experienced folks out there!
it's most certainly a flute.
bought in walton's or mccullough piggots along with a low whistle.
the whistle was asked for; the flute, a bonus surprise.
i had a bit more success last night, having looked at pictures sent in a link <a href="http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=51417&start=0 ">here</a> (thanks vanessa)
going back to the classical grip, i moved my left thumb further to the right and managed to reach the holes. it feels uncomfortable, but i'll persist with it for a few weeks to allow for some tendon stretching. if it's still uncomfortable after that, i'll be back to the piper's grip
I know a number of players, on various instruments, who suffer something in tendons, wrists, etc. One thing they all come back to is - 'relax' . . . or as they say on Chiff & Fipple, "Relinquish control."
Cheers & don't beat yourself up over this.
cheers, muse. yep, did suffer a little bout of rsi last december. learnt an important lesson about what a dangerous weapon the whistle can be: it should never be picked up and played in anger
Something I do with the flute that learned when playing the fiddle, and well worth a try: When starting to play hold the flute above your head, both arms extended vertically, fingers more or less in the playing position. Now move the flute left to right as if using it to wave (both hands are moving). Finally let the flute 'float' down into the playing position. This helps to promote a feeling of weightlessness and relaxation.
I know it sounds like a wind-up, but you may be surprised.
Also, if you can, get hold of a book called "Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Strain Injuries" by Sharon J. Butler and Jacqueline Entwistle Freeman. It's full of sound advice and exercises, and has helped me a lot.
flute
flute
hi all.
i have recently just started (trying to) play a wooden keyless flute that was given to me as a present. I had one lesson with a classical flute player that improved my embouchure no end. it's still frustratingly inconsistent, but steadily getting better.
i've found though that i can't reach all the holes using the grip pictured in many books and on sites, and have opted, more successfully, to go with a piper-style grip. however, the flute seems to be trying to make a break for it on notes that involve no holes being covered. (c#)
any advice on stablilising the thing, and in particular, where the left thumb should go if using that kind of grip?
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by bosco
Re: flute
That's one of the problems with that grip, I guess.
But what is the problem with the standard grip? Have you got particularly small hands? You should not need particularly large ones to play the flute. I can't help but wonder if you have somehow misunderstood the standard grip.
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by Alex Wilding
Re: flute
Are you keeping your right hand pinky down?
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by ...
Re: flute
I started playing flute with a piper's grip and am so glad I switched early on - if you get used to half holing a Cnat instead of using the
oxxooo
fingering like I did, it can cause problems down the line. You may even stop playing the Irish Washerwoman for a while he he
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by izzymac
Re: flute
I too have just started with the flute and am contemplating the same problems. Last night I went to :
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/
and did a search of the forums for "Pipers grip" which brought up some rather long discussions mentioning options for the thumbs (and several other parts of the upper body). I have not quite given up on the 'normal' grip yet though - it is getting less rather than more uncomfortable.
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by David50
Re: flute
Try these as well:
http://www.geocities.com/feadanach/posture.html
http://www.irishflutes.net/mef/hands.htm
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Learning.html
http://www.woodenflute.com/playing/paul_mulvaney_essay
Also masses of stuff on the chiff and fipple forum on this.
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by Rhod
Re: flute
I came into ITM from 20+ years of classical style flute playing and I found that it was useful to keep the fingertip/classical grip on the left hand, but to use a piper's grip on the right hand. As far as embouchure goes, I would practice getting long steady tones (especially on low D) to improve your embouchure. I find that even after playing for many years, my embouchure improves after having played a tune or two as I "lock-in" on it. Listen a lot and try to get a solid tone with as little air (and low volume) as possible. Then push it too the limit the other way and try to keep good tone control at high volume. You can 'feel' it when your emboucure "locks in" and the tone is strong with relatively little effort.
# Posted on July 9th 2007 by jasonlburnfield
Re: flute
I've been playing wooden flute for close to 20 years and I have very short stubby fingers. I remember it seeming an uncomfortable stretch at first, but after a while it seemed easy. I would highly recommend that you use the traditional grip. Unlike classical flute, you shouldn't arch your fingers, but instead keep them flat and relaxed. Relaxed is probably the key word for a grip that doesn't cause muscular/tendon problems. Also, by keeping the fingers flat you use the fleshiest part of your finger to seal the hole and your finger can move faster and more efficiently. The pads on the ends of your fingers are very sensitive and I think give you a bit more control of the instrument once you get accustomed to the grip.
I agree also about the importance of concentrating on embouchure. Play relatively easy tunes at first in a variety of keys rather than trying to build up a big repertoire. Once your embouchure is solid the rest will be much easier.
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by StephenR
Re: flute
Good advice all around. I like Rob Greenway's bit;
http://www.geocities.com/feadanach/posture.html
I agree with the comments above.
Right hand pinky down
(you can keep it off until other fingers on your right hand are lifted),
keep your fingers flat on the right hand
(either way on left),
practice embochure (especially low d note).
Cheers!
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: flute
thanks for the help everyone, especially the links.
a lot of stuff to work with.
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by bosco
Re: flute
Here's a question no one as asked yet (surprisingly):
What kind of flute is this? I have frequently been gifted "instruments" before, by a well-meaning friend whose idea of a gift to his musically-inclined comrade may be worth nothing more than a wall-hanging. This is especially true for flutes, as it is common to find an "item" that looks like a lovely "Irish" flute, but is nothing of the sort. These "flute-like objects" hail from the Irish Music Mecca of Pakistan or India, and are generally not regarded as viable musical instruments.
Not to put you off, but sometimes it is the "instrument" and not necessarily the player.
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by FyfferGuy
Re: flute
Yes my thoughts exactly- beware of ISO's (Instrument-Shaped Objects), things that LOOK like instruments but don't function. These Pakistani-made Irish flutes are absymal.
Anyhow I've played Irish flute for 30+ years, coming to flute from piping. I used Matt Molloy as my model for how to hold the thing- left hand rather like classical flute, right hand fingers a bit flattened. Like many ITM flute/whistle players I tend to leave down my RH ring finger except when playing E and F#.
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: flute
Oh- about reaching the holes- Casey Burns for one makes flutes specifically for small-handed people, more ergonomic. If possible try one his flutes. I know of a number of players who much prefer Casey's flutes for that reason.
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: flute
True about C. Burns' flutes: I began Irish flute from silver/classical background, and my friend recommended Casey exactly for the reasons described by R. Cook. Mine is made for small hands and after trying out two different "sizes" I have found this to be less painful (I really do have small hands!!)
These comments are very helpful, by the way. I'm new to the instrument and don't have a teacher, so I very much hope this particular discussion will keep going. It 's like having a 'virtual' lesson from all of you experienced folks out there!
# Posted on July 10th 2007 by nolagirl
Re: flute
bought in walton's or mccullough piggots along with a low whistle.
the whistle was asked for; the flute, a bonus surprise.
i had a bit more success last night, having looked at pictures sent in a link <a href="http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=51417&start=0 ">here</a> (thanks vanessa)
going back to the classical grip, i moved my left thumb further to the right and managed to reach the holes. it feels uncomfortable, but i'll persist with it for a few weeks to allow for some tendon stretching. if it's still uncomfortable after that, i'll be back to the piper's grip
# Posted on July 11th 2007 by bosco
Re: flute
I know a number of players, on various instruments, who suffer something in tendons, wrists, etc. One thing they all come back to is - 'relax' . . . or as they say on Chiff & Fipple, "Relinquish control."
Cheers & don't beat yourself up over this.
# Posted on July 12th 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: flute
cheers, muse. yep, did suffer a little bout of rsi last december. learnt an important lesson about what a dangerous weapon the whistle can be: it should never be picked up and played in anger
# Posted on July 12th 2007 by bosco
Re: flute
Something I do with the flute that learned when playing the fiddle, and well worth a try: When starting to play hold the flute above your head, both arms extended vertically, fingers more or less in the playing position. Now move the flute left to right as if using it to wave (both hands are moving). Finally let the flute 'float' down into the playing position. This helps to promote a feeling of weightlessness and relaxation.
I know it sounds like a wind-up, but you may be surprised.
# Posted on July 12th 2007 by Rhod
Re: flute
Also, if you can, get hold of a book called "Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Strain Injuries" by Sharon J. Butler and Jacqueline Entwistle Freeman. It's full of sound advice and exercises, and has helped me a lot.
or you could try:
http://eatonhand.com/hw/ctexercise.htm
As others have said, relaxation is the key, but not as easy to achieve as it sounds!
# Posted on July 12th 2007 by Rhod