It seems that folk tunes have different tempos which are dependant on type of tune as well as time signature. It would be a great help if the recommended tempos for tunes were included somewhere when tunes are posted. This would be particularly useful for little known or new compositions.
Does anyone else agree?
I think it's useful when people mention in the comments sections whether how a tune is played, in their experience. I would find any more scientific tempo indications, like, for instance metronome markings on the sheetmusic, would just get in the way. That's because I like to try tunes and decide for myself how they might go. If I like it, I'll try and find someone who plays it, or, failing that, a recording, and then learn it off them
The comments for 'Tunes' is a great place to include tempos. Some have lengthy commentary others next to nothing. Some well known tunes are not always played at the recommended tempo. We play Calliope House at a brisk pace & in the key of D. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/15
Dave Richardson wrote this in E & at a much slower tempo.
I would like to see tempo comments along with the tune submissions. Those that feel they would not be helpful or even harmful could ignore them. I often wonder if the tempo I like to play a tune at is shared by the majority. I have noticed that most tunes are played at a faster tempo than indicated by the composer if you're fortunate enough to see a copy of the original work. I'm thinking of J Scott Skinner.......yeah, yeah I know don't go ballistic just because I mentioned his name. I happen to love playing his strathspeys.
So a tempo indication would help you play them the way they are supposed to sound? Not really, it's just another invitation to take the dots alone and not seek out an aural version.
This used to be a fun place to have a interesting discussion. Now it seems like everyone is just out to see how nasty they can be. I can't help but wonder just how much enjoyment this music brings to you if all you can do is grouse about every little thing. We're not talking strict tempo carved in stone just a general guideline. Yes, I can figure it out by playing it but I find it interestisng to see what others do. I always end up doing what feels right to me.
Sorry we stirred you from your self imposed misery.
One of the joys of playing this music is discovering your favorite tempo for playing a given tune. (And that may change from day to day!)
It is fun to take a tune that you originally heard played slowly (like Bothy Band doing Maids of Mitchelstown, or Lunasa doing Killarney Boys of Pleasure, for instance), and crank them up to speed to see what kind of effect that has on the tune. Or take a tune that everybody plays fast (I dunno... Silver Spear, maybe), and play it slowly, and see if you can discover new things about the tune.
If you get into the habit of playing every tune the same speed every time, not only are you missing out on some of the wonderment of the music, you're also setting yourself up for disaster when you come to play it in a session with people that play it at another tempo that you're not comfortable with.
A general rule of thumb for choosing a tempo might be to choose a tempo that is about 80% of your ability. That gives you some wiggle room, instead of playing it at the absolute fastest speed you can handle, and then crashing and burning.
Now, if you're playing for dancers, they will have specific tempos that they need for different tune types. There's plenty of discussion on these forums about what those tempos are.
The fact is ... that these tunes are very fluid things, and the best of them can take, nae relish, all kinds of re-inventions , including radical ranges in tempo. Just take a listen to Matt Molloy playing Drowsie Maggie on his Heathery Breeze record as an exemplary example.
The problem is ... that not knowing that this music has this quality within it exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding and lack of appreciation. And in my experience, this misunderstanding more often than not grows out of the mistake of trying to learn it from a music notation.
"Now..not too fast lads". How many times do you hear that said at a session. Yet it's a strange thing that unless you have a good, and I emphasise 'good', drummer or bodhrán player to hold the whole thing back, there always seems to be that rush to see who can finish first, leading to the inevitable question "Who won that one"? It takes a lot of musical discipline to hold it steady, Something that some ITM musicians are not noted for. But what the hell... it's great gas....
"Now ... not too fast lads". How many times do you hear that said at a session? Yet it's a strange thing that even if you have a good, and I emphasise 'good', drummer or bodhrán player to hold the whole thing together, there always seems to be that rush to see who can finish first. Hence, even a good drummer is irrelevant.
Leading to the inevitable question "It only takes a small amount of musical discipline to hold it steady, so where does the desire to ruin it with your "great gas" come from?"
I remember a time, after practicing for a couple of hours during a tiring day, I found a quiet spot on the way home and played some more. But this second practice session was a lot more slow and peaceful. I actually didn't notice until after a few tunes were played. Some of these tunes can be hughly enjoyed at any tempo, I find.
Once at a session, a fiddler pointed out to me that the tunes I play fast he played slow (e.g. Lord Inchiquin, I think) and the ones I played slow, he played fast (Blackbird, if I recall). I have played "Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine" as a hornpipe, reel and Strathspey. What fun it becomes!
Once, struggling to come up with a tune to follow "Wise Maid" played apace, I went into "Egan's Polka" played at reel speed!! We all ended with a good laugh.
"One of the joys of playing this music is discovering your favorite tempo for playing a given tune. (And that may change from day to day!)" - So true, Reverend, so true
"and I emphasise 'good', drummer or bodhrán player to hold the whole thing back"
I don't think a bodhran player should set the "tempo" he he/she should be playing at or very slightly ahead of the "tempo" that the melody player sets a good drummer of any sort will never hold things back ..............................tempo is up to the indiviual and another way of putting your own personal touch on a tune so if you want to copy somes tempo go ahead and do so or if you want to play at a speed you like do that to .There is no right or wrong way to do it(with in reason) thats the beauty of the music.
there are certain tempos,that make good dancing,ITM issupposed to be dance music,if youareplaying for beginners your tempo should be slower than for experienced dancers.when those beginners start to get the hang of the dance then youcan speed your tempo up a little.
Micheal Gill AND Dow,youare talking nonsense,a player who is unable to read music can still play with a metronome,and play at certain different tempos,reading musical notation has NOTHING to do with it.all aplayer has to do is to be able to read the numbers on the metronome, eg 116 or 122or whatever.
My guess is if you are posting a tune or adding comments it is because you have played the tune a number of times & found something you like. A tempo recommendation can be very helpful with tunes new or old.
We play Glenlivet once through slowly & on the 2nd time go to exactly double speed. It is very effective.
The suggestion that you can play a reel as a hornpipe or a fast jig as an air is self evident. What often gets missed is a particular mood which sometimes comes out with the slightest variation.
The commentaries are just one way to share this. & no one is stopping anyone from playing the tune however they like.
Saint; pardon my commentary
"There is no right or wrong way to do it (within reason)"
Trust me there are lots of wrong ways to set the tempo.
Oh, the egg timer bit, that's was spot on.
It's all in the delivery.
Of course there is nastiness. How can it possibly wrong for someone who is writing out a tune to provide suggestions about the tempo? If some reader wants to make themselves a slave to that suggestion, they have a problem, not the author who was helpful enough to share their knowledge about the tune in the first place.
Michael as usual is making a straw man, a caricature of the way he thinks people are, as an excuse to be unpleasant and abrasive. What the feck is his problem? Are you short Gill? Still not an excuse - I know a lot of shorties who are perfectly civil and friendly.
I hope he doesn't start posting again with the same frequency and bile as he used to.
Tunes in sessions definitely tend to get speeded up as they go along, and it is very difficult even for a strong player to hold a tune back if everyone else is getting faster.So if in doubt about the right tempo start a bit on the slow side, then you can let it speed up if it sounds sluggish, if you start too fast in a session you'll never manage to slow the tune down again!
O dear..O dear..'llig leahcim'-Could I suggest you read my post again. The line reads "Unless you have a good, and I emphasise a good drummer, etc. Not as you state ....Even though you have a good, etc etc. Hellua difference in the meaning of the two sentences.
As for the 'Great Gas' ...Well the players I've played with over the past fifty odd years always had a good laugh at the end of a set of tunes that may have ended too fast and in a shambles. Maybe we didn't take our music too serious.......
Some good comments, views and advice. Really, thanks.
I know that different people will get the best from a tune at different tempos. In some GHB circles it is advised to master a tune faster than at the recommended speed to allow for it to be played well at the 'correct' tempo.
I might play a reel on the pipes at the recommended 98 beats per minute, but when I play the same tune on the fiddle, it is at a faster tempo which feels quite natural.
The thing is, when I try some of the tunes that are posted, I feel that if I can get them to a tempo recommended by someone who can play the tune, I can then decide if that is the tempo for me. It's good to know that it appears that I am not on my own on that one.
I aggree with some people here about learning tunes by ear and learning tunes from other people and not to take the other modern routes but maybe that won't happen as much in a world of technolagy . But as for learning tempos rhythms etc. by using metronmes or notation or colour codes or morse codes etc. is a real cop out.Try doing it phoneticly take the words "DUM CHUCK" and repeat it over and over again .Now listen to a reel and try to fit it in at the pace of the tune then try it with fast reels and slow reels when it sounds right and fits in YOU GOT RHYTHM.
Does this make sense .
Saint, I really think you misunderstand the function of metronomes and notation and codes and all that. They can't give you rhythm if you don't have it already. What they *can* do, however, is remind you where you want to be. A metronome can help you speed up slowly, force you to slow down, or even out your rhythm when it's gone a bit off after working on different sections of a tune. It's only a tool. But it's useful to know that most reel tempos generally are 115-130 bpm, because that gives you a framework when you're practicing at home, working up the technique to play fast enough to keep up with others when you make it to a session. If you can only play a certain reel at 100 bpm, it's not good enough and you need to do more work before you'll be successful playing out. Make sense?
Metronomes do certainly have their place. our P/M introduced one at the beginning of the season. We were having problems getting one of the jigs, Lord Dunmores Jig, together. We started off at 90 bpm and over a month built it up to playing it together at 130 bpm. All musicians must have natural rhythm, but sometimes need help with rhthmic discipline.
I had no rhythm when I started playing(some say I still don't) and I think the way to learn rhythm is to listen and play to tunes then listen again and then try to improve your ability to listen . Metronomes give a robotic feel to the rhythm and it could guide a beginner away from thier own rhythm that they are developing.Aslo It leads the beginner to listen to the met. rather than the tune . I do see your point about getting up to speed but this should come with time. A met. might give someone a rhythm but it wont give a rhythm that fits and the only way to develope this is by playing and developing listening skills.Again this is just my point of view and I'm probably wrong.
Well Kennedy
"I think the way to learn rhythm is to listen and play to tunes"
Actually, I wouldn't know how to learn rhythm if you don't have it already! I've always been able to clap or tap my foot to something I was listening to, but I've seen other people who can't clap along to music and it just amazes me that they clap out of time like that. So I'm definitely not suggesting a metronome to fix that kind of a problem (although it might help, who knows). But a metronome can be helpful when you're refining rhythm, trying to keep it steady over the whole tune, changes from one part to another, and changes to another tune. I don’t use it every time I practice, but a couple of times a week is good to keep me from veering off-course.
saint, Once someone gets that DUM CHUCK thing mastered, they are ready to be an accompanist, I guess.
kennedy, My church congregation has a tendency to try to be 'with it" and clap along with gospel numbers, and chaos ensues. It is appalling how many people can't even clap in time with music, let alone do something interesting like hit the backbeat.....
I find that to much reliance on metronomes makes your tunes sound like marches more than jigs and reels, and even marching music needs more swing than you get playing with a metronome. Metronomes are a good tool, but use them sparingly.
Saint I think I get why you do not like metronomes.
It's that old thing,'if it ain't got that thing it don't mean a thing.'
Fear not - metronomes will never replace individuals in a session.
They are very good though for practice. You know - "personal discipline". When you play with other people you are free to vary the rhythm. Think of it this way. In a session you can follow the tempo set by the lead, or is that loud, melody player. But . . . in a ceili you should try to keep the tempo very steady so as not to throw off the dancers. And, of course, it never really happens the way you plan.
I have just started playing in regular session that includes supremely talented older musicians who play for the sake of the music, and have clearly forgotten more tunes than I have ever heard.
The first time I played in and was asked to start a tune, I played an upbeat tune that I had learned (for illustration sake) at something like 120 because I heard it played by John Williams (a superb bax player here in Chicago) that way.
Of course the other player played at the pace and even got a "whoop" and a big smile from the older whistle player.
Afterwards, though I was quietly given the advice from the very soft spoken box player that the group, in its experience felt that they felt traditional session playing should always be moderately paced and rock hard on the tempo, and I should practice that way.
I noted some metronome comments. They are helpful when working throughthe piece, but the ability to keep regular rythym should needs to be learned so it is natural without the machine.
Speaking as one who is sometimes rythym challenged, otherwise you will be like Al Brown's church clappers (they are like that at my church too-only I am the accompanist and have to really focus to ignore the awkward off-beats)
Mr. Williams of Chicago is an excellent bax player - fully capable of playing beautiful slow tunes. The real challenge is not speed - it is playing a tune slowly & keeping it all musical. It is for me at least.
Tempo tips
Tempo tips
It seems that folk tunes have different tempos which are dependant on type of tune as well as time signature. It would be a great help if the recommended tempos for tunes were included somewhere when tunes are posted. This would be particularly useful for little known or new compositions.
Does anyone else agree?
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by celticrichie
Re: Tempo tips
I think it's useful when people mention in the comments sections whether how a tune is played, in their experience. I would find any more scientific tempo indications, like, for instance metronome markings on the sheetmusic, would just get in the way. That's because I like to try tunes and decide for myself how they might go. If I like it, I'll try and find someone who plays it, or, failing that, a recording, and then learn it off them
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Tempo tips
The comments for 'Tunes' is a great place to include tempos. Some have lengthy commentary others next to nothing. Some well known tunes are not always played at the recommended tempo. We play Calliope House at a brisk pace & in the key of D. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/15
Dave Richardson wrote this in E & at a much slower tempo.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Ben Steen
Re: Tempo tips
I would like to see tempo comments along with the tune submissions. Those that feel they would not be helpful or even harmful could ignore them. I often wonder if the tempo I like to play a tune at is shared by the majority. I have noticed that most tunes are played at a faster tempo than indicated by the composer if you're fortunate enough to see a copy of the original work. I'm thinking of J Scott Skinner.......yeah, yeah I know don't go ballistic just because I mentioned his name. I happen to love playing his strathspeys.
Mary
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Antikhntr
Re: Tempo tips
So a tempo indication would help you play them the way they are supposed to sound? Not really, it's just another invitation to take the dots alone and not seek out an aural version.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by ...
Re: Tempo tips
There are no 'reccomended tempo's. just play the feckin' things. as you develop you'll figure it out.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Farr
Re: Tempo tips
This used to be a fun place to have a interesting discussion. Now it seems like everyone is just out to see how nasty they can be. I can't help but wonder just how much enjoyment this music brings to you if all you can do is grouse about every little thing. We're not talking strict tempo carved in stone just a general guideline. Yes, I can figure it out by playing it but I find it interestisng to see what others do. I always end up doing what feels right to me.
Sorry we stirred you from your self imposed misery.
Mary
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Antikhntr
Re: Tempo tips
*goes ballistic at mention of JSS*
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Bren
Re: Tempo tips
Well said, Anti khntr. Hope the dog and bird are well.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Tempo tips
I don't see any nastiness. If you're talking about what Michael said, he's absolutely right.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Tempo tips
One of the joys of playing this music is discovering your favorite tempo for playing a given tune. (And that may change from day to day!)
It is fun to take a tune that you originally heard played slowly (like Bothy Band doing Maids of Mitchelstown, or Lunasa doing Killarney Boys of Pleasure, for instance), and crank them up to speed to see what kind of effect that has on the tune. Or take a tune that everybody plays fast (I dunno... Silver Spear, maybe), and play it slowly, and see if you can discover new things about the tune.
If you get into the habit of playing every tune the same speed every time, not only are you missing out on some of the wonderment of the music, you're also setting yourself up for disaster when you come to play it in a session with people that play it at another tempo that you're not comfortable with.
A general rule of thumb for choosing a tempo might be to choose a tempo that is about 80% of your ability. That gives you some wiggle room, instead of playing it at the absolute fastest speed you can handle, and then crashing and burning.
Now, if you're playing for dancers, they will have specific tempos that they need for different tune types. There's plenty of discussion on these forums about what those tempos are.
Pete
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Reverend
Re: Tempo tips
The fact is ... that these tunes are very fluid things, and the best of them can take, nae relish, all kinds of re-inventions , including radical ranges in tempo. Just take a listen to Matt Molloy playing Drowsie Maggie on his Heathery Breeze record as an exemplary example.
The problem is ... that not knowing that this music has this quality within it exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding and lack of appreciation. And in my experience, this misunderstanding more often than not grows out of the mistake of trying to learn it from a music notation.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by ...
Re: Tempo tips
"Now..not too fast lads". How many times do you hear that said at a session. Yet it's a strange thing that unless you have a good, and I emphasise 'good', drummer or bodhrán player to hold the whole thing back, there always seems to be that rush to see who can finish first, leading to the inevitable question "Who won that one"? It takes a lot of musical discipline to hold it steady, Something that some ITM musicians are not noted for. But what the hell... it's great gas....
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Tempo tips
"Now ... not too fast lads". How many times do you hear that said at a session? Yet it's a strange thing that even if you have a good, and I emphasise 'good', drummer or bodhrán player to hold the whole thing together, there always seems to be that rush to see who can finish first. Hence, even a good drummer is irrelevant.
Leading to the inevitable question "It only takes a small amount of musical discipline to hold it steady, so where does the desire to ruin it with your "great gas" come from?"
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by ...
Re: Tempo tips
I remember a time, after practicing for a couple of hours during a tiring day, I found a quiet spot on the way home and played some more. But this second practice session was a lot more slow and peaceful. I actually didn't notice until after a few tunes were played. Some of these tunes can be hughly enjoyed at any tempo, I find.
Once at a session, a fiddler pointed out to me that the tunes I play fast he played slow (e.g. Lord Inchiquin, I think) and the ones I played slow, he played fast (Blackbird, if I recall). I have played "Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine" as a hornpipe, reel and Strathspey. What fun it becomes!
Once, struggling to come up with a tune to follow "Wise Maid" played apace, I went into "Egan's Polka" played at reel speed!! We all ended with a good laugh.
"One of the joys of playing this music is discovering your favorite tempo for playing a given tune. (And that may change from day to day!)" - So true, Reverend, so true
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by feardearg
Re: Tempo tips
"and I emphasise 'good', drummer or bodhrán player to hold the whole thing back"
I don't think a bodhran player should set the "tempo" he he/she should be playing at or very slightly ahead of the "tempo" that the melody player sets a good drummer of any sort will never hold things back ..............................tempo is up to the indiviual and another way of putting your own personal touch on a tune so if you want to copy somes tempo go ahead and do so or if you want to play at a speed you like do that to .There is no right or wrong way to do it(with in reason) thats the beauty of the music.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
there are certain tempos,that make good dancing,ITM issupposed to be dance music,if youareplaying for beginners your tempo should be slower than for experienced dancers.when those beginners start to get the hang of the dance then youcan speed your tempo up a little.
Micheal Gill AND Dow,youare talking nonsense,a player who is unable to read music can still play with a metronome,and play at certain different tempos,reading musical notation has NOTHING to do with it.all aplayer has to do is to be able to read the numbers on the metronome, eg 116 or 122or whatever.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Dick Miles
Re: Tempo tips
metronomes are a load of b****x.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
I think you misunderstood Michael's point entirely. You see, ... oh never mind.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Tempo tips
for once Dow your probablly being wronged
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
Nope. Metronomes are useful---assuming you use them properly.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by kennedy
Re: Tempo tips
My guess is if you are posting a tune or adding comments it is because you have played the tune a number of times & found something you like. A tempo recommendation can be very helpful with tunes new or old.
We play Glenlivet once through slowly & on the 2nd time go to exactly double speed. It is very effective.
The suggestion that you can play a reel as a hornpipe or a fast jig as an air is self evident. What often gets missed is a particular mood which sometimes comes out with the slightest variation.
The commentaries are just one way to share this. & no one is stopping anyone from playing the tune however they like.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by ain't fluffed
Re: Tempo tips
maybe the can be used as egg timers
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
Saint; pardon my commentary
"There is no right or wrong way to do it (within reason)"
Trust me there are lots of wrong ways to set the tempo.
Oh, the egg timer bit, that's was spot on.
It's all in the delivery.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by ain't fluffed
Re: Tempo tips
Of course there is nastiness. How can it possibly wrong for someone who is writing out a tune to provide suggestions about the tempo? If some reader wants to make themselves a slave to that suggestion, they have a problem, not the author who was helpful enough to share their knowledge about the tune in the first place.
Michael as usual is making a straw man, a caricature of the way he thinks people are, as an excuse to be unpleasant and abrasive. What the feck is his problem? Are you short Gill? Still not an excuse - I know a lot of shorties who are perfectly civil and friendly.
I hope he doesn't start posting again with the same frequency and bile as he used to.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Alex Wilding
Re: Tempo tips
Mary, darling: just trying to help. Allof us. Relax a bit, love.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Farr
Re: Tempo tips
Sneezing; er, wot? Are ye drinking, man?
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Farr
Re: Tempo tips
As that famous folk song goes"Rhythm is a dancer its a source of passion"
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
Tunes in sessions definitely tend to get speeded up as they go along, and it is very difficult even for a strong player to hold a tune back if everyone else is getting faster.So if in doubt about the right tempo start a bit on the slow side, then you can let it speed up if it sounds sluggish, if you start too fast in a session you'll never manage to slow the tune down again!
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by cathycook
Re: Tempo tips
The players from the previous era used to "ease into" a tune starting a bit slower. A lesson to be learned there!
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by geoffwright
Re: Tempo tips
O dear..O dear..'llig leahcim'-Could I suggest you read my post again. The line reads "Unless you have a good, and I emphasise a good drummer, etc. Not as you state ....Even though you have a good, etc etc. Hellua difference in the meaning of the two sentences.
As for the 'Great Gas' ...Well the players I've played with over the past fifty odd years always had a good laugh at the end of a set of tunes that may have ended too fast and in a shambles. Maybe we didn't take our music too serious.......
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Free Reed
Re: Tempo tips
Some good comments, views and advice. Really, thanks.
I know that different people will get the best from a tune at different tempos. In some GHB circles it is advised to master a tune faster than at the recommended speed to allow for it to be played well at the 'correct' tempo.
I might play a reel on the pipes at the recommended 98 beats per minute, but when I play the same tune on the fiddle, it is at a faster tempo which feels quite natural.
The thing is, when I try some of the tunes that are posted, I feel that if I can get them to a tempo recommended by someone who can play the tune, I can then decide if that is the tempo for me. It's good to know that it appears that I am not on my own on that one.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by celticrichie
Re: Tempo tips
I aggree with some people here about learning tunes by ear and learning tunes from other people and not to take the other modern routes but maybe that won't happen as much in a world of technolagy . But as for learning tempos rhythms etc. by using metronmes or notation or colour codes or morse codes etc. is a real cop out.Try doing it phoneticly take the words "DUM CHUCK" and repeat it over and over again .Now listen to a reel and try to fit it in at the pace of the tune then try it with fast reels and slow reels when it sounds right and fits in YOU GOT RHYTHM.
Does this make sense .
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
Absolutely
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by celticrichie
Re: Tempo tips
Saint, I really think you misunderstand the function of metronomes and notation and codes and all that. They can't give you rhythm if you don't have it already. What they *can* do, however, is remind you where you want to be. A metronome can help you speed up slowly, force you to slow down, or even out your rhythm when it's gone a bit off after working on different sections of a tune. It's only a tool. But it's useful to know that most reel tempos generally are 115-130 bpm, because that gives you a framework when you're practicing at home, working up the technique to play fast enough to keep up with others when you make it to a session. If you can only play a certain reel at 100 bpm, it's not good enough and you need to do more work before you'll be successful playing out. Make sense?
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by kennedy
Re: Tempo tips
Metronomes do certainly have their place. our P/M introduced one at the beginning of the season. We were having problems getting one of the jigs, Lord Dunmores Jig, together. We started off at 90 bpm and over a month built it up to playing it together at 130 bpm. All musicians must have natural rhythm, but sometimes need help with rhthmic discipline.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by celticrichie
Re: Tempo tips
I had no rhythm when I started playing(some say I still don't) and I think the way to learn rhythm is to listen and play to tunes then listen again and then try to improve your ability to listen . Metronomes give a robotic feel to the rhythm and it could guide a beginner away from thier own rhythm that they are developing.Aslo It leads the beginner to listen to the met. rather than the tune . I do see your point about getting up to speed but this should come with time. A met. might give someone a rhythm but it wont give a rhythm that fits and the only way to develope this is by playing and developing listening skills.Again this is just my point of view and I'm probably wrong.
Well Kennedy
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Tempo tips
"I think the way to learn rhythm is to listen and play to tunes"
Actually, I wouldn't know how to learn rhythm if you don't have it already! I've always been able to clap or tap my foot to something I was listening to, but I've seen other people who can't clap along to music and it just amazes me that they clap out of time like that. So I'm definitely not suggesting a metronome to fix that kind of a problem (although it might help, who knows). But a metronome can be helpful when you're refining rhythm, trying to keep it steady over the whole tune, changes from one part to another, and changes to another tune. I don’t use it every time I practice, but a couple of times a week is good to keep me from veering off-course.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by kennedy
Re: Tempo tips
saint, Once someone gets that DUM CHUCK thing mastered, they are ready to be an accompanist, I guess.
kennedy, My church congregation has a tendency to try to be 'with it" and clap along with gospel numbers, and chaos ensues. It is appalling how many people can't even clap in time with music, let alone do something interesting like hit the backbeat.....
I find that to much reliance on metronomes makes your tunes sound like marches more than jigs and reels, and even marching music needs more swing than you get playing with a metronome. Metronomes are a good tool, but use them sparingly.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Tempo tips
Saint I think I get why you do not like metronomes.
It's that old thing,'if it ain't got that thing it don't mean a thing.'
Fear not - metronomes will never replace individuals in a session.
They are very good though for practice. You know - "personal discipline". When you play with other people you are free to vary the rhythm. Think of it this way. In a session you can follow the tempo set by the lead, or is that loud, melody player. But . . . in a ceili you should try to keep the tempo very steady so as not to throw off the dancers. And, of course, it never really happens the way you plan.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by ain't fluffed
Re: Tempo tips
I have just started playing in regular session that includes supremely talented older musicians who play for the sake of the music, and have clearly forgotten more tunes than I have ever heard.
The first time I played in and was asked to start a tune, I played an upbeat tune that I had learned (for illustration sake) at something like 120 because I heard it played by John Williams (a superb bax player here in Chicago) that way.
Of course the other player played at the pace and even got a "whoop" and a big smile from the older whistle player.
Afterwards, though I was quietly given the advice from the very soft spoken box player that the group, in its experience felt that they felt traditional session playing should always be moderately paced and rock hard on the tempo, and I should practice that way.
Enough said given the wisdom of the source.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by zippydw
Re: Tempo tips
I noted some metronome comments. They are helpful when working throughthe piece, but the ability to keep regular rythym should needs to be learned so it is natural without the machine.
Speaking as one who is sometimes rythym challenged, otherwise you will be like Al Brown's church clappers (they are like that at my church too-only I am the accompanist and have to really focus to ignore the awkward off-beats)
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by zippydw
Re: Tempo tips
Mr. Williams of Chicago is an excellent bax player - fully capable of playing beautiful slow tunes. The real challenge is not speed - it is playing a tune slowly & keeping it all musical. It is for me at least.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by ain't fluffed