Angelina Carberry and Matin Quinn were playing in northern New Jersey (USA) last night and a workshops were to be offered in the afternoon.
I signed up for the banjo workshop - the first workshop ever for me. When we got there at 4pm, the place was deserted except for Angelina, Martin, their lovely daughter and Iris - the event organizer. Apparently I was the only one to sign up for the banjo workshop but they still held it.
A 1.5 hour private lesson with Angelina Carberry!!
Totally unexpected. What can I say - it was just the perfect thing for me. I come from a mandolin background and am new to the banjo. If you have not played both, do not fool yourself to think that playing technique is the same, just because they are tuned the same way. Each instrument requires an approach on it's own. I needed troubleshooting and she was able to point out various things for me to work on.
Besides full access to her knowledge and observing her playing in great detail, I also received two nice reels. One was Lad's Favorite (you can find it on a Brain Conway recording) and the other is Humours of Castlefin or something like that. I found it later on on a Mary MacNamara recording. I'm not used to learning tunes phrase by phrase although I learn my tunes mostly be ear. Typically I saturate myself with listening until the whole thing is in my head. Then I transfer it to the instrument. So this was a new learning experience for me. It's different but I'm sure another useful skill for teaching/receiving tunes from others.
Angelina's teaching style was really good for me. She provided insightful feedback, gave me some nice altered lines to familiar tunes, and was so patient and encouraging.
The concert was lovely as well.
If you go to her web site, you can find the rest of the US tour dates. They are on staff at several Irish "weeks" and have some other shows as well. Sign up for the workshops if you get a chance. You won't regret it.
Sorry to appear negative, and I really would not want to spoil your recollection of what was obviously a very positive experience, but you appeared so enthusiastic I checked out the web site and heard her playing. Didn't think it was all that great, I have to say. But if you enjoyed it that's the important thing
Seriously, I don't think you can always judge a player from a few snatches of music on a website.
I've actually got Angelina's album which I thoroughly enjoy and I'm sure she'll be even better live.
On what basis do you say that? And it is not necessary to come out with both guns blazing. It is reasonable to express an opinion. The original poster had a very rewarding experience. I was happy for him, as i said. He seemed so enthusiastic I wanted to check out the playing. I did not think she was that great, though in the interests of balance, I would have to say I am not overly fond of banjoes anyway.
Is she a better player than I am? I don't know. But I am not sure that is the point. People do need to be able to express an opinion. If we say everyone is brilliant that is boring and inaccurate and doesn't help facilitate a real discussion. In some ways it is as bad as saying everyone is crap
Pol, my first comment was made in jest. You may or may not be a better player. I don't know and it doesn't really matter...
However, I've just checked the site too and there are very brief clips from only about 3 tracks. I can't see how you can reach a full judgement on this basis.
That's all.
The important point is - and this goes for any workshop - is the tutor a good teacher? A brilliant player isn't always a great teacher, and vice versa.
I think Avi was amazingly lucky to have had Angelina on a one to one basis. She has the coolest style there is . Would'nt it be great if some of the "fireworks" players could manage half the control and a third of the feeling she conveys.
I am not wanting to start a row but, I do not like any banjo players. The instrument is not. really part of our culture. It sort of misses the point. Essentially our music is legato, it can never work, really, on a staccato instrument.
The best I suppose. is Gerry O connor, who is a really talented muso. It is a shame he didn't take up the fiddle
"Essentially our music is legato, it can never work, really, on a staccato instrument"
What an extraordinarily pompous statement. "Our music", by which you mean the music YOU happen to like. Open your mind up Pol, your ears might well follow!
Pol, you already started one.... You're entitled to your opinion, but leave it at that -perhaps it doesn't fit *your* style of ITM, but please don't assume everyone plays the same way. If this is not your thread of interest, feel free to find another one. We're all very happy for Avi or anyone who gets the gift of some personal lesson-time with such skilled and pleasant musicians. No matter what you play, one can always learn something from their technique or style.
Go to Gerry O'Connor's web site (http://www.gerryoconnor.com/) and you will see that he is a fiddle player from a long line of trad fiddle players (and I don't mean Gerry "Fiddle " O'Connor, and entirely different web site.)
Angelina Carberry is quite legato if you listen to her. That is one of the reasons so many banjo players like her (along with a lot of others.) I assume you have not heard her records from the statements that you make.
By the way, after the harp and pipes, what instrument is "really part of our culture"? The Irish seem to have borrowed all the rest from elsewhere (not that doing so is bad, but I am intrigued by the statement.)
I am looking forward to my own experience with her as a teacher soon. Thanks for the heads up on what tunes she is teaching.
Sorry to appear negative but if you think that Angelina'a banjo playing is "not all that great" you know absolutely nothing about Irish Traditional Music and you are an embarrassment to yourself as well as to us who have to read such dribble
To answer your question about the differences in approach with mandolin and banjo:
They are two completely different instruments, they just have the same tuning.
1) Scale is different, 13.5 inches vs. 22-23 inches. This means that if you use mandolin fingering on a banjo you will have to stretch way beyond the amount you stretch for the mandolin. The result is a slowing of various licks and the elimination of many.
2) Mandolins are double coursed while banjos are single stringed. The tension on mandolin strings is much higher than that of a banjo. In order to get a decent tone from a mandolin you have to use more energy and more mass in the pick. If you use a thin banjo style pick on a mandolin, you will get an anemic quiet tone that can become very annoying. Mandolin playing requires a stronger stroke and if the mandolin has a carved top, a more forceful stroke if you want to get a good tone, and tone is the secret to good music in any stringed instrument.
Also, some of the banjo ornaments sound strangled when applied to a mandolin unless you are willing to strike both strings equally, which means an entirely different approach to the instrument. For example, jigs need to be played DUD DUD (down, up, down plectrum strokes) on a mandolin because the down storke is stronger than the up stroke and a DUDUDUD approach will not give you the lilt you need for the music. On the other hand, you can play DUDUDUD on a banjo and achieve the same types of tone whether you are on a D or a U stroke. Banjos are easier to play in that respect.
3) Banjos are naturally loud while mandolins require more technique to make them loud.
4) Mandolins have more sustain than banjos so in order to take advantage of this feature you have to change the way you play it. Mandolin technique takes advantage of this feature and as a result has a characteristic presentation that banjos don't share. Tone and effect are quite different between the two instruments and they have nothing in common in these respects.
As a result, if you play the banjo and try to use the same techniques on a mandolin, you will make the mandolin sound thin and rattlely. Using good mandolin technique on a banjo will cause you to not take advantage of the dynamics and tone of the banjo resulting in a boring presentation.
A guy was lucky to find himself as the only participant in a banjo workshop with one of Ireland's best exponants for that instrument. He considers himself lucky, and he is, because it became more like a private lesson. That's great! I don't think any of the comments about Carberry's merits, or according to some, lack there of, has anything to do with the spirit of this thread. She's a fine player and Avi got an unexpected private lesson. Why some of you guys carry on the way you do always amazes me.
I am really astonished by some of the replies. If you are seriously saying this girl is a great player, what does that make, Tommy Peoples, or Mat Malloy or Paddy Keenan? I think we need to maintain some perspective.
To my ear this is someone who plays OK on an instrument that does not show the music at its best. That is a reasonable opinion to hold
Peoples is a great fiddle player. Molloy is a great flute player. Paddy Keenan is a great piper. Angelina Carberry is a great banjo-player. The 3 you mention have also probably been playing for something like 30 years longer than her, so at the very least you could make some allowances for her relative youth.
In terms of recordings made, I've enjoyed the music on her recordings as much as anything ever produced by the players you mention. That is my reasonable opinion.
Pol, there was nothing in the premise of this thread that asked if Angelina Carberry is either the world's best banjo player or the world's best Irish musician. It's completely irrelevant. Why you even chose to comment the way you did raises more questions about you than it ever could about Angelina's banjo playing.
Actually it is perfectly reasonable to hear someone mention a musician, hear that person play and then express an opinion on the playing. To me that is a natural and usual resposnse, What is odd is, having done that, it is taken to
"say more about me" than the person's playing. That is odd.
Could we stick to discussions about the music, rather than personal attacks?
Or to provide a more measured response, to compare someone who comments unfavourably on a young woman who plays the banjo with one of the worst mass murderers in history suggests there is a lack of perspective.
I am not sure either what your comparison says about his victims.
This is the worst example of an increasing recent tendency in discussions here not to discuss matters but to argue in a confronatational and I regret to say offensive manner. This seems to me to be very far from the message of the music which we are supposed to share
Pól no one is ganging up on you but just because you don't enjoy her playing dose'nt mean shes not a great player and if you want to make strong statements on this site you have to be able to back them up otherwise people will jump down your throat . As for personal attacks by commenting on a musicians playing is very personal and if people don't defend Angelina Carberry against your comments with thier own views someone might just take one persons opinion and not buy her wonderful music and that would not be fair on Angelina one of the most pleasent banjo players I have ever heard.Pól I do appreciate your honesty and your opinion .
drive on regardless
eddie
Coatesville Cultural Society / 143 E. Lincoln Hwy. / Coatesville, PA / Sat., July 7, 8:00 PM ..
the Coatesville Traditional Irish Music Series presents ...
Angelina Carberry & Martin Quinn
Sat., July 7, 8:00 PM / Tickets: $15; under 12, free
Workshops in banjo & button-accordion (5:00 to 7:00): $20
In other moderated forums, harsh arguments and offensive remarks, unrelated to the discussion, would have caused this thread to be locked or deleted a while back.
Unfortunately I regret ever making my original posting, in light of what happed subsequently. All I wanted to do was share something positive, hoping someone else could benefit from the information.
I have seen the harsh talk, the bashing of one other and of well known musicians all over this forum and with no good reason.
Thank you for the relevant and civilized comments but I will think long and hard before posting again.
If gentle, positive people, as you seem to be, Avi, stop posting here, the harsh, critical, and intolerant ones - who have included myself from time to time - will have it all their own way. And that would weaken the site.
Avi,
Please don't let the negativity drive you away or into silence. We need more of your positive attitude, and less of the negativity that others brought to this discussion!!
Yes, Avi... my entire point has been that the spirit of this thread as you presented it was a positive expression of your excitement over your unexpected and valuable learning experience. This is something most people here would welcome and celebrate with you. The negative comments about Angelina's playing were out of place and un-called for.
Regardless of what has been said here Avi, (and I can certainly put my hand up and admit that all my contributions aren't helpful all the time!), the main thrust of this discussion is supportive of, and even a little envious of your encounter, Thanks for letting us in on the fact that people at the top of their game like Angelina, have the common touch and the manners to carry out their commitments,(or even exceed our expectations). Let that be a lesson to us all.
I was in two minds about replying further to this thread but perhaps wrongly I have decided to.
I enjoy this site and have used it for years. Very often I enjoy the craic and the silly humour. There are people who come on who seem to want to assert themselves or have a row. I am not interested in that and do not respond to those threads. I am sorry, genuinely if the original poster is upset. It seems to me that the purpose is to hear and exchange views and sometimes to have sensible, reasonable disagreements. I was pleased for the poster who had this positive experience as I said. My comment was that I was not that taken with the playing of the person who taught him. That is a reasonable view to take.I did not say she was a bad player, or a bad person. All I said was that playing in that way on that instrument was not for me. That is a reasonable position to take. I may even be wrong. But putting views forward seems to me to be how to conduct a discussion.
At the risk of starting another row, which I do not think I could bear, I remember having a similar discussion with someone about a workshop I attended years ago with one of the best known Donegal fiddle players. I was enthusing about this to a fellow musician, He said he knew the musician, but would not have enthused i the way I did because he felt Donegal fiddle players were becoming over dominant at the expense of other styles. Now I did not agree with this, was a bit suprised that anyone would put the vierw forward, but engaged in what became an interesting discussion, albeit with no agreement at the end.
That was the kind of discussion I was expecting here. Didn't get it, and me like other people who contributed are left with a bad taste. Disappointing outcome for everyone.
Perhaps it is useful to provide a translation of the last comment in my original post 'Go ndeana maith duit' May it do you good'. I was glad for Avi that it did
Big over reaction here no one ganged up on anyone there was a statement made about Angelina Carberry with no substance and people backed up Angelina Carberry.I've expressed my opinion on this site and got hammered before, and after a disscussion I have admitted I was wrong ,at the end of the day Pól you don't like banjoes and when you make a statement back it up and there won't be a problem.
I do not know much about Miss Carberry. I always imagined she was English, in fact I thought she was Pete's daughter. He used to play the box and banjo in Manchester back in the 70s. I have listened to a few bits on youtube and such, and she is ok.
I have played a lot with banjo players and in my humble opinion, many were better than Angela, but that is neither here nor there. I actually do not like Gerry O'Connor on the banjo, too "cajun" or "Tommy Emmanuelish" for my taste. One or two of that type of tune is great, but alnight, no thanks. That is my opinion. Gerry may not like my playing style.
Now in my experience Johnny J has been a decent man. His "bet she is better than you" looks terrible, but I believe he was joking, because Johnny is a fair man.
|Red Robin I do not know, but telling a Belfast man he knows nothing about Irish music, well, it is not an opinion I would like to express in some Belfast venues. Pól does not like banjoes, and thinks Angelina is ok. He is perfectly entitled to that opinion. Apart from Gerry O'Connor, wonderful musician, just not my cup of tea, I really dislike Andy Irvine playing mandolin, again, just not my cup of tea.
And Red Robin, if I knew nothing about ITM, I wouldn't be able to give that opinion.
"The instrument is not. really part of our culture."
This is a big statement for someone for someone who does not want an arguement. Pól is quite entitled to his opinion as is everyone else entiled to have an opinion on Pól s statements . but to rise above the disscussion I like to say sorry if I offended you in any way Pól.
regards
eddie
As BB suggests, I was just joking. There was a "smiley" there too although I also realise that using this symbol isn't a license to say whatever you like. However, I also immediately followed with a more serious point.
In a way, my initial remark was said in jest in an actual attempt to defuse the situation as I had anticipated even stronger criticism in response to Pol's remarks. However, it seems to have backfired and I apologise for this.
Anyway, I too am glad that we are ending on a more positive note.
Not everyone will like everyone's style, this we know and that is just fine and fine to say so. In fact maybe it is preferable to have a really distinct style where people either love you or intensely dislike your playing, rather than just being a mediocre, so-so, just OK player no one takes note of one way or the other. A great player often raises a controversy and always some gut emotions whether you like them or not, and you can still say they are a technically very good or great player, but you just don't like the style.
No need to be impolite but you get that on online group posts sometimes, people just get carried away. I wouldn't let it run you off Avi, just ignore it and keep posting your good experiences or views on the music!
Pol was expressing an opinion, and maybe his wording was not to the expectations of some. Maybe some would have preferred he say "I checked it out and while technically very good, I didn't like the style" or some such thing, but are we to police the way people express something? Others are of course allowed to react to it, politely would be nice, but I wouldn't take it so hard if some of it is a little rough.
On the other hand I could see where it was taken by some as a final word that she is not a good player, a proclamation of sorts, sounding like it was coming from a final authority, rather than one person's opinion. The way things are worded can unintentionally convey something else to some and it is good to be aware of that so as to not stir people up so badly, but it doesn't always work.
I don't see though how it could ultimately destroy her or make people not want to buy a CD, in fact, in a strange way, it may be drawing more attention to her, where people want to click onto her site and hear more for themselves, find out about this player who is on the path to making a name for herself and her husband Martin Quinn over here in the US. Overall on their short tour prior to the Catskills, the reaction they are getting is great! Some people who were at the IAANJ concert last Saturday were saying it was the best show we ever had there, and we have had some great shows prior to this.
Any professional musician knows there are those who don't like them, and are OK about that, but more people than not must really like them if they are getting such great recognition and an ever growing following!
Those of you who can, try to get to East Durham 7/15 - 7/22 to see or take a class with Angelina and/or many others.
Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Angelina Carberry and Matin Quinn were playing in northern New Jersey (USA) last night and a workshops were to be offered in the afternoon.
I signed up for the banjo workshop - the first workshop ever for me. When we got there at 4pm, the place was deserted except for Angelina, Martin, their lovely daughter and Iris - the event organizer. Apparently I was the only one to sign up for the banjo workshop but they still held it.
A 1.5 hour private lesson with Angelina Carberry!!
Totally unexpected. What can I say - it was just the perfect thing for me. I come from a mandolin background and am new to the banjo. If you have not played both, do not fool yourself to think that playing technique is the same, just because they are tuned the same way. Each instrument requires an approach on it's own. I needed troubleshooting and she was able to point out various things for me to work on.
Besides full access to her knowledge and observing her playing in great detail, I also received two nice reels. One was Lad's Favorite (you can find it on a Brain Conway recording) and the other is Humours of Castlefin or something like that. I found it later on on a Mary MacNamara recording. I'm not used to learning tunes phrase by phrase although I learn my tunes mostly be ear. Typically I saturate myself with listening until the whole thing is in my head. Then I transfer it to the instrument. So this was a new learning experience for me. It's different but I'm sure another useful skill for teaching/receiving tunes from others.
Angelina's teaching style was really good for me. She provided insightful feedback, gave me some nice altered lines to familiar tunes, and was so patient and encouraging.
The concert was lovely as well.
If you go to her web site, you can find the rest of the US tour dates. They are on staff at several Irish "weeks" and have some other shows as well. Sign up for the workshops if you get a chance. You won't regret it.
Avi
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by improziv
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Avi - lucky you! AC's first CD is on my iPod right now - really lovely playing.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
These unexpected private lessons happen occasionally. I'm sure the teacher enjoys the opportunity to concentrate on a single pupil.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Sorry for the typos. I meant Brian (not Brain) Conway . I wish there was a way to edit posts...
Avi
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by improziv
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Hi Avi... lucky you! That was something!
For the rest of you try to come to the Catskills where she and Martin Quinn will be teaching.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by irisnevins
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I don't mean to hijack this thread...but can you elaborate on what you see as the differences between mandolin and banjo technique?
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by timmy!
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Core, how lucky can a person get! Great stuff Avi.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Clear Drops
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Sorry to appear negative, and I really would not want to spoil your recollection of what was obviously a very positive experience, but you appeared so enthusiastic I checked out the web site and heard her playing. Didn't think it was all that great, I have to say. But if you enjoyed it that's the important thing
Go ndéana maith duit
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Sorry to appear negative, but I'm sure she's a damned sight better than you....
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Seriously, I don't think you can always judge a player from a few snatches of music on a website.
I've actually got Angelina's album which I thoroughly enjoy and I'm sure she'll be even better live.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Pol, I'm very surprised you didn't know Angelina, who has been recognised as a skillful musician for years. Watch this: http://www.custysmusic.com/mall/CustysTraditionalMusicShop/angelina_and_martin.htm
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by slainte
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Johnny J,
On what basis do you say that? And it is not necessary to come out with both guns blazing. It is reasonable to express an opinion. The original poster had a very rewarding experience. I was happy for him, as i said. He seemed so enthusiastic I wanted to check out the playing. I did not think she was that great, though in the interests of balance, I would have to say I am not overly fond of banjoes anyway.
Is she a better player than I am? I don't know. But I am not sure that is the point. People do need to be able to express an opinion. If we say everyone is brilliant that is boring and inaccurate and doesn't help facilitate a real discussion. In some ways it is as bad as saying everyone is crap
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Pol, my first comment was made in jest. You may or may not be a better player. I don't know and it doesn't really matter...
However, I've just checked the site too and there are very brief clips from only about 3 tracks. I can't see how you can reach a full judgement on this basis.
That's all.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
The important point is - and this goes for any workshop - is the tutor a good teacher? A brilliant player isn't always a great teacher, and vice versa.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
pól what banjo players do you like?
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Saint
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I think Avi was amazingly lucky to have had Angelina on a one to one basis. She has the coolest style there is . Would'nt it be great if some of the "fireworks" players could manage half the control and a third of the feeling she conveys.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Backer
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I am not wanting to start a row but, I do not like any banjo players. The instrument is not. really part of our culture. It sort of misses the point. Essentially our music is legato, it can never work, really, on a staccato instrument.
The best I suppose. is Gerry O connor, who is a really talented muso. It is a shame he didn't take up the fiddle
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
"Essentially our music is legato, it can never work, really, on a staccato instrument"
What an extraordinarily pompous statement. "Our music", by which you mean the music YOU happen to like. Open your mind up Pol, your ears might well follow!
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Backer
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Pol, you already started one.... You're entitled to your opinion, but leave it at that -perhaps it doesn't fit *your* style of ITM, but please don't assume everyone plays the same way. If this is not your thread of interest, feel free to find another one. We're all very happy for Avi or anyone who gets the gift of some personal lesson-time with such skilled and pleasant musicians. No matter what you play, one can always learn something from their technique or style.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by dragonfiddle
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Pol,
You really need to get out more.
Go to Gerry O'Connor's web site (http://www.gerryoconnor.com/) and you will see that he is a fiddle player from a long line of trad fiddle players (and I don't mean Gerry "Fiddle " O'Connor, and entirely different web site.)
Angelina Carberry is quite legato if you listen to her. That is one of the reasons so many banjo players like her (along with a lot of others.) I assume you have not heard her records from the statements that you make.
By the way, after the harp and pipes, what instrument is "really part of our culture"? The Irish seem to have borrowed all the rest from elsewhere (not that doing so is bad, but I am intrigued by the statement.)
I am looking forward to my own experience with her as a teacher soon. Thanks for the heads up on what tunes she is teaching.
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Sorry to appear negative but if you think that Angelina'a banjo playing is "not all that great" you know absolutely nothing about Irish Traditional Music and you are an embarrassment to yourself as well as to us who have to read such dribble
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Red Robin
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Some hilarious posts on this thread. Hahaha. God I love this website.
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by Dr. Dow
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
To answer your question about the differences in approach with mandolin and banjo:
They are two completely different instruments, they just have the same tuning.
1) Scale is different, 13.5 inches vs. 22-23 inches. This means that if you use mandolin fingering on a banjo you will have to stretch way beyond the amount you stretch for the mandolin. The result is a slowing of various licks and the elimination of many.
2) Mandolins are double coursed while banjos are single stringed. The tension on mandolin strings is much higher than that of a banjo. In order to get a decent tone from a mandolin you have to use more energy and more mass in the pick. If you use a thin banjo style pick on a mandolin, you will get an anemic quiet tone that can become very annoying. Mandolin playing requires a stronger stroke and if the mandolin has a carved top, a more forceful stroke if you want to get a good tone, and tone is the secret to good music in any stringed instrument.
Also, some of the banjo ornaments sound strangled when applied to a mandolin unless you are willing to strike both strings equally, which means an entirely different approach to the instrument. For example, jigs need to be played DUD DUD (down, up, down plectrum strokes) on a mandolin because the down storke is stronger than the up stroke and a DUDUDUD approach will not give you the lilt you need for the music. On the other hand, you can play DUDUDUD on a banjo and achieve the same types of tone whether you are on a D or a U stroke. Banjos are easier to play in that respect.
3) Banjos are naturally loud while mandolins require more technique to make them loud.
4) Mandolins have more sustain than banjos so in order to take advantage of this feature you have to change the way you play it. Mandolin technique takes advantage of this feature and as a result has a characteristic presentation that banjos don't share. Tone and effect are quite different between the two instruments and they have nothing in common in these respects.
As a result, if you play the banjo and try to use the same techniques on a mandolin, you will make the mandolin sound thin and rattlely. Using good mandolin technique on a banjo will cause you to not take advantage of the dynamics and tone of the banjo resulting in a boring presentation.
I hope this helps.
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on July 2nd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
A guy was lucky to find himself as the only participant in a banjo workshop with one of Ireland's best exponants for that instrument. He considers himself lucky, and he is, because it became more like a private lesson. That's great! I don't think any of the comments about Carberry's merits, or according to some, lack there of, has anything to do with the spirit of this thread. She's a fine player and Avi got an unexpected private lesson. Why some of you guys carry on the way you do always amazes me.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Angelina Carberry is a fantasic player and the banjo is one of the top instruments in trad. thanks to her.
Pól your as mad as a box of frogs!
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I would give my right arm for a private lesson with Angelina Carberry.
Oh, but then I wouldn't be able to play the banjo any more..........
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by oldstrings
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I am really astonished by some of the replies. If you are seriously saying this girl is a great player, what does that make, Tommy Peoples, or Mat Malloy or Paddy Keenan? I think we need to maintain some perspective.
To my ear this is someone who plays OK on an instrument that does not show the music at its best. That is a reasonable opinion to hold
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Peoples is a great fiddle player. Molloy is a great flute player. Paddy Keenan is a great piper. Angelina Carberry is a great banjo-player. The 3 you mention have also probably been playing for something like 30 years longer than her, so at the very least you could make some allowances for her relative youth.
In terms of recordings made, I've enjoyed the music on her recordings as much as anything ever produced by the players you mention. That is my reasonable opinion.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Kenny
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
And Gerry O'Connor has been a superb fiddler for more than 20 years - yes, the Tipperary banjo-playing Gerry.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Kenny
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Pol, there was nothing in the premise of this thread that asked if Angelina Carberry is either the world's best banjo player or the world's best Irish musician. It's completely irrelevant. Why you even chose to comment the way you did raises more questions about you than it ever could about Angelina's banjo playing.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Actually it is perfectly reasonable to hear someone mention a musician, hear that person play and then express an opinion on the playing. To me that is a natural and usual resposnse, What is odd is, having done that, it is taken to
"say more about me" than the person's playing. That is odd.
Could we stick to discussions about the music, rather than personal attacks?
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
too late Pól... this is fascinating. like watching a train wreck happening in slow motion
hey, you wouldn't be related to Pol Pot by any chance? http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/pol_pot.htm
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by dogbox
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Dogbox,
That is stupid and gratuitously offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Or to provide a more measured response, to compare someone who comments unfavourably on a young woman who plays the banjo with one of the worst mass murderers in history suggests there is a lack of perspective.
I am not sure either what your comparison says about his victims.
This is the worst example of an increasing recent tendency in discussions here not to discuss matters but to argue in a confronatational and I regret to say offensive manner. This seems to me to be very far from the message of the music which we are supposed to share
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I agree, Pol.
My first post wasn't really mean to be confrontational either but I just thought your judgement was a little hasty. That's all.
I certainly didn't intend everybody to "gang up" on you either.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Pól no one is ganging up on you but just because you don't enjoy her playing dose'nt mean shes not a great player and if you want to make strong statements on this site you have to be able to back them up otherwise people will jump down your throat . As for personal attacks by commenting on a musicians playing is very personal and if people don't defend Angelina Carberry against your comments with thier own views someone might just take one persons opinion and not buy her wonderful music and that would not be fair on Angelina one of the most pleasent banjo players I have ever heard.Pól I do appreciate your honesty and your opinion .
drive on regardless
eddie
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Saint
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Here is another opportunity:
Coatesville Cultural Society / 143 E. Lincoln Hwy. / Coatesville, PA / Sat., July 7, 8:00 PM ..
the Coatesville Traditional Irish Music Series presents ...
Angelina Carberry & Martin Quinn
Sat., July 7, 8:00 PM / Tickets: $15; under 12, free
Workshops in banjo & button-accordion (5:00 to 7:00): $20
Mike Keyes
http://www.mikekeyes.com
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by mikeyes
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Folks,
In other moderated forums, harsh arguments and offensive remarks, unrelated to the discussion, would have caused this thread to be locked or deleted a while back.
Unfortunately I regret ever making my original posting, in light of what happed subsequently. All I wanted to do was share something positive, hoping someone else could benefit from the information.
I have seen the harsh talk, the bashing of one other and of well known musicians all over this forum and with no good reason.
Thank you for the relevant and civilized comments but I will think long and hard before posting again.
Peace
Avi
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by improziv
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Avi, we all appreciate your contribution. It's obviously not you who started all this mess.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by slainte
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
If gentle, positive people, as you seem to be, Avi, stop posting here, the harsh, critical, and intolerant ones - who have included myself from time to time - will have it all their own way. And that would weaken the site.
Carry on, Avi.
Please.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by ethical blend
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Avi,
Please don't let the negativity drive you away or into silence. We need more of your positive attitude, and less of the negativity that others brought to this discussion!!
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Yes, Avi... my entire point has been that the spirit of this thread as you presented it was a positive expression of your excitement over your unexpected and valuable learning experience. This is something most people here would welcome and celebrate with you. The negative comments about Angelina's playing were out of place and un-called for.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Regardless of what has been said here Avi, (and I can certainly put my hand up and admit that all my contributions aren't helpful all the time!), the main thrust of this discussion is supportive of, and even a little envious of your encounter, Thanks for letting us in on the fact that people at the top of their game like Angelina, have the common touch and the manners to carry out their commitments,(or even exceed our expectations). Let that be a lesson to us all.
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Backer
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I was in two minds about replying further to this thread but perhaps wrongly I have decided to.
I enjoy this site and have used it for years. Very often I enjoy the craic and the silly humour. There are people who come on who seem to want to assert themselves or have a row. I am not interested in that and do not respond to those threads. I am sorry, genuinely if the original poster is upset. It seems to me that the purpose is to hear and exchange views and sometimes to have sensible, reasonable disagreements. I was pleased for the poster who had this positive experience as I said. My comment was that I was not that taken with the playing of the person who taught him. That is a reasonable view to take.I did not say she was a bad player, or a bad person. All I said was that playing in that way on that instrument was not for me. That is a reasonable position to take. I may even be wrong. But putting views forward seems to me to be how to conduct a discussion.
At the risk of starting another row, which I do not think I could bear, I remember having a similar discussion with someone about a workshop I attended years ago with one of the best known Donegal fiddle players. I was enthusing about this to a fellow musician, He said he knew the musician, but would not have enthused i the way I did because he felt Donegal fiddle players were becoming over dominant at the expense of other styles. Now I did not agree with this, was a bit suprised that anyone would put the vierw forward, but engaged in what became an interesting discussion, albeit with no agreement at the end.
That was the kind of discussion I was expecting here. Didn't get it, and me like other people who contributed are left with a bad taste. Disappointing outcome for everyone.
Perhaps it is useful to provide a translation of the last comment in my original post 'Go ndeana maith duit' May it do you good'. I was glad for Avi that it did
# Posted on July 3rd 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Big over reaction here no one ganged up on anyone there was a statement made about Angelina Carberry with no substance and people backed up Angelina Carberry.I've expressed my opinion on this site and got hammered before, and after a disscussion I have admitted I was wrong ,at the end of the day Pól you don't like banjoes and when you make a statement back it up and there won't be a problem.
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by Saint
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I do not know much about Miss Carberry. I always imagined she was English, in fact I thought she was Pete's daughter. He used to play the box and banjo in Manchester back in the 70s. I have listened to a few bits on youtube and such, and she is ok.
I have played a lot with banjo players and in my humble opinion, many were better than Angela, but that is neither here nor there. I actually do not like Gerry O'Connor on the banjo, too "cajun" or "Tommy Emmanuelish" for my taste. One or two of that type of tune is great, but alnight, no thanks. That is my opinion. Gerry may not like my playing style.
Now in my experience Johnny J has been a decent man. His "bet she is better than you" looks terrible, but I believe he was joking, because Johnny is a fair man.
|Red Robin I do not know, but telling a Belfast man he knows nothing about Irish music, well, it is not an opinion I would like to express in some Belfast venues. Pól does not like banjoes, and thinks Angelina is ok. He is perfectly entitled to that opinion. Apart from Gerry O'Connor, wonderful musician, just not my cup of tea, I really dislike Andy Irvine playing mandolin, again, just not my cup of tea.
And Red Robin, if I knew nothing about ITM, I wouldn't be able to give that opinion.
So leave Pól alone. Or else
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Just looked her up on Google. She is Pete's daughter. Still prefer Sully, or Maguire, but that's me.
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
"The instrument is not. really part of our culture."
This is a big statement for someone for someone who does not want an arguement. Pól is quite entitled to his opinion as is everyone else entiled to have an opinion on Pól s statements . but to rise above the disscussion I like to say sorry if I offended you in any way Pól.
regards
eddie
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by Saint
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
I love banjoes. (and bodhrans)
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by bodhran bliss
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Esteeemed colleagues,
Thank you for the more positive comments. I am glad that we have been able to end this on a more positive note.
For the record I would see myself as being supportive of everyone's efforts to play the music and enjoy the experience,
Good luck
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by Pól
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
As BB suggests, I was just joking. There was a "smiley" there too although I also realise that using this symbol isn't a license to say whatever you like. However, I also immediately followed with a more serious point.
In a way, my initial remark was said in jest in an actual attempt to defuse the situation as I had anticipated even stronger criticism in response to Pol's remarks. However, it seems to have backfired and I apologise for this.
Anyway, I too am glad that we are ending on a more positive note.
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by Johnny Jay
Re: Unexpected private lesson - Angelina Carberry
Avi... don't leave. You didn't start this.
Not everyone will like everyone's style, this we know and that is just fine and fine to say so. In fact maybe it is preferable to have a really distinct style where people either love you or intensely dislike your playing, rather than just being a mediocre, so-so, just OK player no one takes note of one way or the other. A great player often raises a controversy and always some gut emotions whether you like them or not, and you can still say they are a technically very good or great player, but you just don't like the style.
No need to be impolite but you get that on online group posts sometimes, people just get carried away. I wouldn't let it run you off Avi, just ignore it and keep posting your good experiences or views on the music!
Pol was expressing an opinion, and maybe his wording was not to the expectations of some. Maybe some would have preferred he say "I checked it out and while technically very good, I didn't like the style" or some such thing, but are we to police the way people express something? Others are of course allowed to react to it, politely would be nice, but I wouldn't take it so hard if some of it is a little rough.
On the other hand I could see where it was taken by some as a final word that she is not a good player, a proclamation of sorts, sounding like it was coming from a final authority, rather than one person's opinion. The way things are worded can unintentionally convey something else to some and it is good to be aware of that so as to not stir people up so badly, but it doesn't always work.
I don't see though how it could ultimately destroy her or make people not want to buy a CD, in fact, in a strange way, it may be drawing more attention to her, where people want to click onto her site and hear more for themselves, find out about this player who is on the path to making a name for herself and her husband Martin Quinn over here in the US. Overall on their short tour prior to the Catskills, the reaction they are getting is great! Some people who were at the IAANJ concert last Saturday were saying it was the best show we ever had there, and we have had some great shows prior to this.
Any professional musician knows there are those who don't like them, and are OK about that, but more people than not must really like them if they are getting such great recognition and an ever growing following!
Those of you who can, try to get to East Durham 7/15 - 7/22 to see or take a class with Angelina and/or many others.
# Posted on July 4th 2007 by irisnevins