I am having difficulty in having the beat come out in my fiddle playing. When I play, the notes are there, but it's hard to tell where the beat is. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Bowing. Speed up the bow on the beat notes. This will automatically accent the beat. As always, slow practice from the beginning is essential.
This sort of bowing is very important to get the correct rhythm for polkas, where if you have 4 eighth note (quavers) in a bar, the accent will tend to be on 2 and 4, so that's where you speed up the bow.
But the rhythm has always to be in your head first.
Catherine, over the years I've noticed that most people have an easier time feeling the pulse of one type of tune over the others--some people "get" jig rhythm while others "get" reels, etc.
In the long run, sussing out the pulse of any form will help you with the others, so figure out which type of tune you play well now and focus on that for a bit. For me, it was jigs, and earlier in my chequered fiddling career I spent a couple of weeks just hammering the hell out of the first note of each group of three in a bar: ONE-two-three ONE-two-three..... I overdid it on purpose, playing those downbeats louder, with a faster bow (as mentioned above), and a tab longer--anything I could do to accent those beats. My Darling Asleep came out as a ridiculous parody of a jig, but I quickly learned how to use the bow to emphasize certain notes and demphasize others. A skooch more bow speed to call out a note, letting the bow weight land on a note, or swelling the note and then letting the hair release (still on the string, but unweighting at the end of the note).
Then I backed off, gradually, still feeling the pulse, but playing with more subtlety. And I used other ways to emphasize the beat--slurring "across the bar" from the last note of one measure onto the first (downbeat) note of the next. Using cuts to add "pop" to the beat, etc.
It was then easier to apply these bow and fingering skills to reels, hornpipes, etc. I tackled the Morning Dew like a blacksmith on an anvil, just punishing the beat out of the tune. And eventually it clicked.
Of course, the ultimate goal is NOT to hammer out the beat, but to caress it out of each tune, letting the tune itself lead the way. All I'm suggesting is that for some of us, overdoing it for a short time can help unlock the pulse. As soon as you feel it, try to back off and be nuanced about it.
Some other things that have helped me on this:
- Start out playing as softly as you can, and let the beats come out closer to full volume.
- Dance and 'groove" with your whole body while you play a simple tune. Feel the pulse in every pore, and deep in your gut.
- Alternately, isolate the pulse to your bow hand, to the tiny center of gravity where your thumb, index finger, and bow stick meet. Play without worrying about tone or intonation--just dance that "center" to the tune.
- Listen, listen, listen to someone playing with lots of pulse and lift. Lilt along. Then play along, feeling the pulse.
- In spite of all the listening, realize that the pulse is something you ***feel.***
Hmmm. I was working on just this issue in my last lesson, emphasizing the pulse of a jig, and my teacher told me specifically *not* to do it with bow speed but with more pressure from my index finger on the bow. He said I wanted to keep all the bow strokes the same length as much as possible. I've been practicing it the last few days and it seems to be helping. Is it that there is more than one approach to take, perhaps?
Yep. Some people rely more on bow speed than weighting/unweighting. Others are vice versa. And some use everything at their disposal. Could be that your teacher wants you to focus on one thing at a time.
I've heard more than a few great fiddlers talk about keeping bow speed fairly consistent, though. It makes it easier to keep the up and down bows even--blalanced--so you don't end up stuck at one end or the other. Just enjoyed a workshop with John Carty and he emphasized how much it helped his own playing to stay mostly in the middle of the bow, short strokes, evenly done. (Which isn't to say he won't occasionally drop a long bow in there.) Consistent bow speed leads to consistent tone, too, a feature of this music.
Hmm again. One thing he said that matched what you were saying, Will, is to overdo the accent thing for a while. I thought I *was* accenting the beat, but I guess it didn't come out that way, and then when I over-emphasized it, it was the way it needed to be. I must be more mousey in my playing than I think!
..not sure if my reply got wiped out by accident ...this might by a repeat..
Concentrate a lot on how you _end_ your strokes and mentally anticipate where you want to emphasize the beat - prepare. If you are sloppy in ending the previous stroke, it obscures the beat. Also think about varying the space between strokes - listen to where good flute players breathe.
On the other hand, if you overdo this, it can get _too_ clean
for some people's taste. Compare Paddy Canny or Breda Keville with recent Kevin Burke. You can be rhythmic without being clinical.
mhuppert's good point here is one reason I prefer not to use the word "ornament" when talking about cuts, rolls, triplets, etc. Really, these are ways to articulate a note and/or a beat. Since this is dance music, anything you do to "embellish" a tune--cuts, rolls, triplets, slides, smears, attacking from off the string, even doublestops, drones, and melodic variations--all of these are ways of playing with the pulse, the rhythm. In that sense, these are all ways to articulate timing, and to create interest through variety.
How you come into and leave a note or beat is just another way of talking about articulating that note or beat. And it's all the most important aspect of making this music sound the way it does when it's played well.
...' One thing he said that matched what you were saying, Will, is to overdo the accent thing for a while. I thought I *was* accenting the beat, but I guess it didn't come out that way, and then when I over-emphasized it, it was the way it needed to be.'
that's a good point from Will and yr teacher- what we think we're playing is often not what is coming out!
especially in practice it is a good idea to exaggerate things - you can always tone it down later should it be too much.
Oh, and play along with other people, I find that those who play alone too much can develop odd approaches to rhythm. I rolled a set out recently that I had been working on, and when we did the change, things fell apart, because I had been playing it with a slight pause between the two tunes, and it threw folks off.
You could also try a metronome, but use it sparingly, as it can become part of the problem if relied on too much.
You could also tape yourself and listen to the recording to hear how you are doing (it is amazing the difference between hearing it as you play or sing, and hearing it come back at you).
And I have to say that in my humble opinion, "cpt"(aka Will) is spot on with his advice.
I agree with what Will is saying in that if you are having trouble identifying the beat or rhythm, that exagerating it for a time is a great exercise. You can usually exagerate at a very slow pace too, and this exageration will naturally lessen as you play a little faster.
The basic jig rhythm that I teach is Long - Short - Medium. So, in the triplet, the first note is the longest, the second note the shortest, and the third note somewhere in between. Take Connaughtman's Rambles for instance. It is nearly the same as ONE - two -three, TWO - two - three...
If you already haven't you should first learn to know where the accented notes are in each type of tunes you are playing. Then learn a practise how to count out loud (along records) also in high tempos. As soon as you get this it is much easier to bring the beat into the playing. Just my topence.
Putting the beat into music
Putting the beat into music
I am having difficulty in having the beat come out in my fiddle playing. When I play, the notes are there, but it's hard to tell where the beat is. Any suggestions? Thanks.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by enirehtac
Re: Putting the beat into music
It's in your feet, Catherine. Think dancer, think how it would drive the dancer's feet..........................
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Backer
Re: Putting the beat into music
Bowing. Speed up the bow on the beat notes. This will automatically accent the beat. As always, slow practice from the beginning is essential.
This sort of bowing is very important to get the correct rhythm for polkas, where if you have 4 eighth note (quavers) in a bar, the accent will tend to be on 2 and 4, so that's where you speed up the bow.
But the rhythm has always to be in your head first.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Putting the beat into music
Tap your feet? Some frown on it, but it works for me.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Putting the beat into music
See recent discussion at http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/14235
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Putting the beat into music
Catherine, over the years I've noticed that most people have an easier time feeling the pulse of one type of tune over the others--some people "get" jig rhythm while others "get" reels, etc.
In the long run, sussing out the pulse of any form will help you with the others, so figure out which type of tune you play well now and focus on that for a bit. For me, it was jigs, and earlier in my chequered fiddling career I spent a couple of weeks just hammering the hell out of the first note of each group of three in a bar: ONE-two-three ONE-two-three..... I overdid it on purpose, playing those downbeats louder, with a faster bow (as mentioned above), and a tab longer--anything I could do to accent those beats. My Darling Asleep came out as a ridiculous parody of a jig, but I quickly learned how to use the bow to emphasize certain notes and demphasize others. A skooch more bow speed to call out a note, letting the bow weight land on a note, or swelling the note and then letting the hair release (still on the string, but unweighting at the end of the note).
Then I backed off, gradually, still feeling the pulse, but playing with more subtlety. And I used other ways to emphasize the beat--slurring "across the bar" from the last note of one measure onto the first (downbeat) note of the next. Using cuts to add "pop" to the beat, etc.
It was then easier to apply these bow and fingering skills to reels, hornpipes, etc. I tackled the Morning Dew like a blacksmith on an anvil, just punishing the beat out of the tune. And eventually it clicked.
Of course, the ultimate goal is NOT to hammer out the beat, but to caress it out of each tune, letting the tune itself lead the way. All I'm suggesting is that for some of us, overdoing it for a short time can help unlock the pulse. As soon as you feel it, try to back off and be nuanced about it.
Some other things that have helped me on this:
- Start out playing as softly as you can, and let the beats come out closer to full volume.
- Dance and 'groove" with your whole body while you play a simple tune. Feel the pulse in every pore, and deep in your gut.
- Alternately, isolate the pulse to your bow hand, to the tiny center of gravity where your thumb, index finger, and bow stick meet. Play without worrying about tone or intonation--just dance that "center" to the tune.
- Listen, listen, listen to someone playing with lots of pulse and lift. Lilt along. Then play along, feeling the pulse.
- In spite of all the listening, realize that the pulse is something you ***feel.***
Hope this helps.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Putting the beat into music
Hmmm. I was working on just this issue in my last lesson, emphasizing the pulse of a jig, and my teacher told me specifically *not* to do it with bow speed but with more pressure from my index finger on the bow. He said I wanted to keep all the bow strokes the same length as much as possible. I've been practicing it the last few days and it seems to be helping. Is it that there is more than one approach to take, perhaps?
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Putting the beat into music
Yep. Some people rely more on bow speed than weighting/unweighting. Others are vice versa. And some use everything at their disposal. Could be that your teacher wants you to focus on one thing at a time.
I've heard more than a few great fiddlers talk about keeping bow speed fairly consistent, though. It makes it easier to keep the up and down bows even--blalanced--so you don't end up stuck at one end or the other. Just enjoyed a workshop with John Carty and he emphasized how much it helped his own playing to stay mostly in the middle of the bow, short strokes, evenly done. (Which isn't to say he won't occasionally drop a long bow in there.) Consistent bow speed leads to consistent tone, too, a feature of this music.
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Putting the beat into music
Hmm again. One thing he said that matched what you were saying, Will, is to overdo the accent thing for a while. I thought I *was* accenting the beat, but I guess it didn't come out that way, and then when I over-emphasized it, it was the way it needed to be. I must be more mousey in my playing than I think!
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Putting the beat into music
..not sure if my reply got wiped out by accident ...this might by a repeat..
Concentrate a lot on how you _end_ your strokes and mentally anticipate where you want to emphasize the beat - prepare. If you are sloppy in ending the previous stroke, it obscures the beat. Also think about varying the space between strokes - listen to where good flute players breathe.
On the other hand, if you overdo this, it can get _too_ clean
for some people's taste. Compare Paddy Canny or Breda Keville with recent Kevin Burke. You can be rhythmic without being clinical.
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by Hup
Re: Putting the beat into music
mhuppert's good point here is one reason I prefer not to use the word "ornament" when talking about cuts, rolls, triplets, etc. Really, these are ways to articulate a note and/or a beat. Since this is dance music, anything you do to "embellish" a tune--cuts, rolls, triplets, slides, smears, attacking from off the string, even doublestops, drones, and melodic variations--all of these are ways of playing with the pulse, the rhythm. In that sense, these are all ways to articulate timing, and to create interest through variety.
How you come into and leave a note or beat is just another way of talking about articulating that note or beat. And it's all the most important aspect of making this music sound the way it does when it's played well.
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by Will CPT
Re: Putting the beat into music
...' One thing he said that matched what you were saying, Will, is to overdo the accent thing for a while. I thought I *was* accenting the beat, but I guess it didn't come out that way, and then when I over-emphasized it, it was the way it needed to be.'
that's a good point from Will and yr teacher- what we think we're playing is often not what is coming out!
especially in practice it is a good idea to exaggerate things - you can always tone it down later should it be too much.
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by biggus dave
Re: Putting the beat into music
Oh, and play along with other people, I find that those who play alone too much can develop odd approaches to rhythm. I rolled a set out recently that I had been working on, and when we did the change, things fell apart, because I had been playing it with a slight pause between the two tunes, and it threw folks off.
You could also try a metronome, but use it sparingly, as it can become part of the problem if relied on too much.
You could also tape yourself and listen to the recording to hear how you are doing (it is amazing the difference between hearing it as you play or sing, and hearing it come back at you).
And I have to say that in my humble opinion, "cpt"(aka Will) is spot on with his advice.
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Putting the beat into music
I agree with what Will is saying in that if you are having trouble identifying the beat or rhythm, that exagerating it for a time is a great exercise. You can usually exagerate at a very slow pace too, and this exageration will naturally lessen as you play a little faster.
The basic jig rhythm that I teach is Long - Short - Medium. So, in the triplet, the first note is the longest, the second note the shortest, and the third note somewhere in between. Take Connaughtman's Rambles for instance. It is nearly the same as ONE - two -three, TWO - two - three...
# Posted on June 27th 2007 by Jode
Re: Putting the beat into music
If you already haven't you should first learn to know where the accented notes are in each type of tunes you are playing. Then learn a practise how to count out loud (along records) also in high tempos. As soon as you get this it is much easier to bring the beat into the playing. Just my topence.
# Posted on June 28th 2007 by Risto
Re: Putting the beat into music
accented = emphasized
# Posted on June 28th 2007 by Risto