How important is it to tap one's foot while playing tunes? I don't have a teacher so I have never had it drilled into me that I should be tapping my foot, but I am starting to suspect that teachers tend to emphasize the importance of foot tapping to their students. I notice lots of other players doing it.
And then I saw Kevin Burke play last night and his foot was moving the whole time...sometimes tapping on every beat (rocking the foot back and forth to alternate heel and toe taps)...sometimes even both feet tapping. Perhaps this is the secret to sounding like him?
I don't think tapping you foot is very important, but if you can't tap your foot while playing it might indicate a rhythm problem. But you can rest assured that Kevin Burke's sound has little to do with the way he taps his foot.
I've noticed a variety of foot tapping styles over the years. Some folks tap the downbeat, and others the upbeat (more rare) and many do both. A lot of the younger Irsh players have a double-bounce sort of thing going on, but whenever I try it I get a cramp. I tap my foot on the downbeat for the most part, and sometimes I get lazy and alternate between right and left. Sometimes I don't tap at all, but if I'm trying to muster some energy I'll tap aggressively.
I don't think it's very important at all. I had it trained out of me at a young age (I grew up playing classical music -- it's a no no to tap your foot in that type of music) and I've still always had good rhythm.
The only problem I've ever had with someone tapping their foot was when they couldn't actually tap in time! One lady at a session I used to go to couldn't and it was really distracting.
I still haven't bothered trying to tap my foot and it doesn't seem to be hurting me any---my rhythm is pretty reliable without it. I'd still like to be able to do it, though! Maybe someday when I'm more skilled I can work on incorporating it without it throwing off my playing.
Crysania, you miss my point. I said good rhythm doesn't rely on tapping your foot, but if you're unable to tap your foot it might be indicative of a rhythm problem. In this post as well as my last post take note of the word "might."
Here we're seriously discussing the ability to tap ones foot. I always thought that it was a bad habit most of us musicians had that really ought to be broken!
This is kind of fun. If you click on the link kennedy posted, you can go to a post where someone posted a link to an earlier post where someone links to an earlier post...it's like the mirror within a mirror phenomenon.
while i dont think its necessary to tap your foot while playing, it certainly does help keep the rhythm constant. some guitar teachers encourage you to tap while strumming because it helps with the rhythm. also, while im sure that kevin burke doesn't sound the way he does because he taps his foot, it might be part of the reason.
I myself play with stronger rythm if I tap. I do the heel-toe thing, deeper tone on the beat, higher tone on the offbeat. I actually have been working on doing the Quebecois thing but don't have it down yet.
Crysania - look again, and you'll see that KML has linked right back to here. I've spent a happy half hour just clicking between the various threads. Ah! Simple pleasures ...
My sad sense of humour (oxymoron intended). As for toe tapping, I don't really do it, except on occasional bouncy jigs or something. I would never*try* to do ie fake it. If I did, whatever natural rhythm I do possess would be severely compromised, as I'd end up concentrating on the tapping rather than the playing. Al in all, I don't think it is remotely important whether you do or don't, and doesn't affect the end product, ie the played tune.
What style of shoes are really best for toe-tapping?
Hard -sole would seem obvious, but low-cut or high? Heavy or thin sole?
Black or brown? What did Michael Coleman wear in performance? Willie Clancy?
For fiddle or flute, it would seem to me one would want a more basso tap to give more bottom, whereas box players might want to go more treble on some occasions.
Also, is there an All-Ireland category for tapping yet?
With some people foot-tapping is involuntary. Q. What's the best form of torture for a Scotsman? A. Nail his feet to the floor and play a Jimmy Shand record.
I love this stuff - the Quebecois tapping that Richard was talking about. Pascal Gemme, the fiddler, is a musical genius. In this video he is playing his fiddle and feet and singing at the same time! Genticorum are a great band.
Various mixed observations re. the subject.
(i) Audible foot tapping is very annoying.
(ii) Those that have to do it should carry a cushion to put on the floor between foot and floor.
(iii) Some seem to tap abstractly and it has no connection with the music going on. (This is what happens at gigs when the audience likes something and joins in clapping. Within 8 bars they are desparately out of time and the band has to ignore it and fight to keep your own time.)
(iv) Feel the groove in your head and express your rhythm via your instrument.
(v) Then there is the geezah who starts up a tune and thrashes his size twelve Jimmy Choo's on the lino as if no-one else can possibly join in with out his clodhopping statement of the tempo.
(vi) Also, foot tapping tends to be, "bosh, bosh, bosh, bosh"- four to the floor. And when the tempo is presto it's all too much. It's much better to think in half time and go, "one, two, BOSH!, three". It keeps better time.
PS: One hopes that one has not marginalized anyone's understanding of this by using LATIN numbering.
I actually really like it at a session when there's quite a few people tapping because it gives a stronger pulse to the music. I would take the melody players tapping over a bodhran player's noodling any day.
I think that if you're able to tap your foot to a tune without realising it, it's definitely a good sign that you're playing in the right rhythm, but you should never think that you have to do it, you're there to play tunes, and whether or not you tap your foot, bob your head or sway you're still playing the tunes.
I have a question, does anyone else here ever find that upon coming home from a session your ankle feels all funny from tapping your foot so much? I don't even realise I was tapping my foot until I get home and feel it.
I play with some folks who all seem to be able to tap on the 1st and 5th note of a reel and the 1st and 4th notes on jigs. Steady as rain. Best I can do is tap on each eighth note, so it looks like I’m all hopped up or something. What really throws me is how to stay steady with the foot and still ever so slightly push the rhythm/swing it at the same time. It really becomes a rub your stomach pat your head kind of exercise.
When I’m playing at home I seem to be a bit better at tapping, playing a bit slower, more relaxed. I’m more self conscious of it when I play with others. And I seem to tap down beats and back beats, whatever suits my mood, within the same tune. So basically, I don’t tap except unconsciously, which I guess is best.
"while i dont think its necessary to tap your foot while playing, it certainly does help keep the rhythm constant."
Yeah? I've never heard anyone keep a constant rythm by tapping their foot, they only think they do.
Tapping here and there is another thing and then your foot is following the beat not the opposite. The thing is that most of us don't have suchly well developed muscles in the feetto keep up a constant steady beat with. Many can't even keep a steady beat by klapping their hands, not to speak feet.
I'm surprised by the general disdain for foot-tapping. I've always enjoyed it, and I know some musicians who must have some pretty heavy heels, because they can thump away even barefoot.
I guess I've always seen it as the most traditional form of accompaniment (no no, it's okay...I'm a guitar player). I really dig Patrick Ourceau tapping away thrroughout Live at Mona's. In the liner they said they tried to get him to stop, but it didn't seem right.
It's something when all the melody players are tapping together. BTW - I noticed when I play banjo I tend to tap double time.
The teachers at the music school where I take lessons all tap their feet, or bounce around even more aggressively while playing. It seems to come naturally to them, but when I try to do it, it just ends up being one more thing for me to think about. As far as I can tell, not tapping hasn't hurt my rhythm any, but I wonder why it's so difficult for me to do it, when I get the impression that so many experienced fiddlers would have to make a concerted effort NOT to tap their feet while playing.
a fellow player mentioned while at ceol aneas a solid beat which mysteriously appeared in a recording another fellow session player made. It was soon made very clear when someone pointed out that the microphone for the recorder had been placed on the wooden floor. The collective foot tap was not only coming through but the mic mini stand was bouncing on the floor.
I don't think I tap my feet when playing - probably a result of a lifetime playing in orchestras - but I do tend to tap my foot when not playing but listening to others.
Audible foot tapping is, quite rightly imo, frowned upon in orchestral and other classical music, but players do sometimes move their feet inaudibly when up against a strong counter-rhythm from another section of the orchestra. I remember many years ago seeing a performance of one of Chopin’s piano concertos, and at one stage the conductor was loudly stamping his foot on the podium desperately trying to get an errant solo pianist, who was evidently in a world of his own and not watching the conductor, back into some semblance of synchronisation with the orchestra. A shocking sight, I can tell you; I had to have a stiff drink afterwards
Yeah! I admire good classical players, but I find it sad that they have both feet stuck in the ground. It might help to get a good technique.
I think tapping your feet help to put some swing in the tune. Plus, in Québec at least, fiddlers often played alone for dances and foot tapping would give accompaniment.
Podorythm is an art in itself. You can do the basic québécois style but there are lot of variations you can include... triplets, quads...etc. it gets more complicated if you play an instrument at the same time. Some people are really good at it. Michel Bordeleau a founding member of La Bottine is great at it. And he is not alone.
We are not talking about stomping to go through the floor, this is really annoying in session. There are shoes with a piece of metal on the toe and on the heal. It makes a neat sound.
But, a good tip to switch from classic to trad music, tap your foot once every third or fourth beat while playing or dance (while not playing), then you get the beat of trad music.
Foot tapping
Foot tapping
How important is it to tap one's foot while playing tunes? I don't have a teacher so I have never had it drilled into me that I should be tapping my foot, but I am starting to suspect that teachers tend to emphasize the importance of foot tapping to their students. I notice lots of other players doing it.
And then I saw Kevin Burke play last night and his foot was moving the whole time...sometimes tapping on every beat (rocking the foot back and forth to alternate heel and toe taps)...sometimes even both feet tapping. Perhaps this is the secret to sounding like him?
# Posted on June 24th 2007 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Foot tapping
I don't think tapping you foot is very important, but if you can't tap your foot while playing it might indicate a rhythm problem. But you can rest assured that Kevin Burke's sound has little to do with the way he taps his foot.
I've noticed a variety of foot tapping styles over the years. Some folks tap the downbeat, and others the upbeat (more rare) and many do both. A lot of the younger Irsh players have a double-bounce sort of thing going on, but whenever I try it I get a cramp. I tap my foot on the downbeat for the most part, and sometimes I get lazy and alternate between right and left. Sometimes I don't tap at all, but if I'm trying to muster some energy I'll tap aggressively.
# Posted on June 24th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Foot tapping
I don't think it's very important at all. I had it trained out of me at a young age (I grew up playing classical music -- it's a no no to tap your foot in that type of music) and I've still always had good rhythm.
The only problem I've ever had with someone tapping their foot was when they couldn't actually tap in time! One lady at a session I used to go to couldn't and it was really distracting.
# Posted on June 24th 2007 by Crysania
Re: Foot tapping
I asked about that here a while ago and got some good advice:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11339/comments
I still haven't bothered trying to tap my foot and it doesn't seem to be hurting me any---my rhythm is pretty reliable without it. I'd still like to be able to do it, though! Maybe someday when I'm more skilled I can work on incorporating it without it throwing off my playing.
# Posted on June 24th 2007 by kennedy
Re: Foot tapping
Crysania, you miss my point. I said good rhythm doesn't rely on tapping your foot, but if you're unable to tap your foot it might be indicative of a rhythm problem. In this post as well as my last post take note of the word "might."
# Posted on June 24th 2007 by Phantom Button
Re: Foot tapping
Here we're seriously discussing the ability to tap ones foot. I always thought that it was a bad habit most of us musicians had that really ought to be broken!
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Bannerman
Re: Foot tapping
Bannerman, I for one don't want to be the first one to explain that to Martin Hayes
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Foot tapping
Phantom Button, you missed the fact that I was simply responding to the original question and not responding to your particular post.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Crysania
Re: Foot tapping
This is kind of fun. If you click on the link kennedy posted, you can go to a post where someone posted a link to an earlier post where someone links to an earlier post...it's like the mirror within a mirror phenomenon.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Crysania
Re: Foot tapping
while i dont think its necessary to tap your foot while playing, it certainly does help keep the rhythm constant. some guitar teachers encourage you to tap while strumming because it helps with the rhythm. also, while im sure that kevin burke doesn't sound the way he does because he taps his foot, it might be part of the reason.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by rob_handel
Re: Foot tapping
I myself play with stronger rythm if I tap. I do the heel-toe thing, deeper tone on the beat, higher tone on the offbeat. I actually have been working on doing the Quebecois thing but don't have it down yet.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Foot tapping
I think that foot tapping is encouraged by teachers to help students to stay on the beat. It's a lot nicer than a metronome!
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by morning star
Re: Foot tapping
Crysania - look again, and you'll see that KML has linked right back to here. I've spent a happy half hour just clicking between the various threads. Ah! Simple pleasures ...
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by benhall.1
Re: Foot tapping
My sad sense of humour (oxymoron intended). As for toe tapping, I don't really do it, except on occasional bouncy jigs or something. I would never*try* to do ie fake it. If I did, whatever natural rhythm I do possess would be severely compromised, as I'd end up concentrating on the tapping rather than the playing. Al in all, I don't think it is remotely important whether you do or don't, and doesn't affect the end product, ie the played tune.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Foot tapping
I find that it gets more rythem into the playing.I use the Double-Bounce thing described by The Phantom Button.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by dinn2
Re: Foot tapping
If anyone cares its very anoying for a bodhran player.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Saint
Re: Foot tapping
What style of shoes are really best for toe-tapping?
Hard -sole would seem obvious, but low-cut or high? Heavy or thin sole?
Black or brown? What did Michael Coleman wear in performance? Willie Clancy?
For fiddle or flute, it would seem to me one would want a more basso tap to give more bottom, whereas box players might want to go more treble on some occasions.
Also, is there an All-Ireland category for tapping yet?
Cheers.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Rook
Re: Foot tapping
With some people foot-tapping is involuntary. Q. What's the best form of torture for a Scotsman? A. Nail his feet to the floor and play a Jimmy Shand record.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by SYcove
Re: Foot tapping
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dkqxjqXXWqo
I love this stuff - the Quebecois tapping that Richard was talking about. Pascal Gemme, the fiddler, is a musical genius. In this video he is playing his fiddle and feet and singing at the same time! Genticorum are a great band.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Foot tapping
Various mixed observations re. the subject.
(i) Audible foot tapping is very annoying.
(ii) Those that have to do it should carry a cushion to put on the floor between foot and floor.
(iii) Some seem to tap abstractly and it has no connection with the music going on. (This is what happens at gigs when the audience likes something and joins in clapping. Within 8 bars they are desparately out of time and the band has to ignore it and fight to keep your own time.)
(iv) Feel the groove in your head and express your rhythm via your instrument.
(v) Then there is the geezah who starts up a tune and thrashes his size twelve Jimmy Choo's on the lino as if no-one else can possibly join in with out his clodhopping statement of the tempo.
(vi) Also, foot tapping tends to be, "bosh, bosh, bosh, bosh"- four to the floor. And when the tempo is presto it's all too much. It's much better to think in half time and go, "one, two, BOSH!, three". It keeps better time.
PS: One hopes that one has not marginalized anyone's understanding of this by using LATIN numbering.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by yhaalhouse
Re: Foot tapping
foot tapping or a bodhran?
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Saint
Re: Foot tapping
I actually really like it at a session when there's quite a few people tapping because it gives a stronger pulse to the music. I would take the melody players tapping over a bodhran player's noodling any day.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Richard D Cook
Re: Foot tapping
I think that if you're able to tap your foot to a tune without realising it, it's definitely a good sign that you're playing in the right rhythm, but you should never think that you have to do it, you're there to play tunes, and whether or not you tap your foot, bob your head or sway you're still playing the tunes.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by dannym
Re: Foot tapping
I have a question, does anyone else here ever find that upon coming home from a session your ankle feels all funny from tapping your foot so much? I don't even realise I was tapping my foot until I get home and feel it.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by dannym
Re: Foot tapping
I play with some folks who all seem to be able to tap on the 1st and 5th note of a reel and the 1st and 4th notes on jigs. Steady as rain. Best I can do is tap on each eighth note, so it looks like I’m all hopped up or something. What really throws me is how to stay steady with the foot and still ever so slightly push the rhythm/swing it at the same time. It really becomes a rub your stomach pat your head kind of exercise.
When I’m playing at home I seem to be a bit better at tapping, playing a bit slower, more relaxed. I’m more self conscious of it when I play with others. And I seem to tap down beats and back beats, whatever suits my mood, within the same tune. So basically, I don’t tap except unconsciously, which I guess is best.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by fidkid
Re: Foot tapping
"while i dont think its necessary to tap your foot while playing, it certainly does help keep the rhythm constant."
Yeah? I've never heard anyone keep a constant rythm by tapping their foot, they only think they do.
Tapping here and there is another thing and then your foot is following the beat not the opposite. The thing is that most of us don't have suchly well developed muscles in the feetto keep up a constant steady beat with. Many can't even keep a steady beat by klapping their hands, not to speak feet.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Risto
Re: Foot tapping
Too many typos to correct, just forgive me.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Risto
Re: Foot tapping
If you want the real truth on foot tapping to keep you in time youmight not find a better example than the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5OfaukAb50&mode=related&search=
performance by Gene Sheldon on Jackie Gleason Show demostrating tapping the foot in time with the the tenor banjo .
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by windybaer
Re: Foot tapping
Dannym, I have experienced that soreness you describe, usually after a good night of tunes. The foot is thumping away without my even realizing it.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by AlBrown
Re: Foot tapping
I'm surprised by the general disdain for foot-tapping. I've always enjoyed it, and I know some musicians who must have some pretty heavy heels, because they can thump away even barefoot.
I guess I've always seen it as the most traditional form of accompaniment (no no, it's okay...I'm a guitar player). I really dig Patrick Ourceau tapping away thrroughout Live at Mona's. In the liner they said they tried to get him to stop, but it didn't seem right.
It's something when all the melody players are tapping together. BTW - I noticed when I play banjo I tend to tap double time.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by MDuckett
Re: Foot tapping
The teachers at the music school where I take lessons all tap their feet, or bounce around even more aggressively while playing. It seems to come naturally to them, but when I try to do it, it just ends up being one more thing for me to think about. As far as I can tell, not tapping hasn't hurt my rhythm any, but I wonder why it's so difficult for me to do it, when I get the impression that so many experienced fiddlers would have to make a concerted effort NOT to tap their feet while playing.
# Posted on June 25th 2007 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Foot tapping
a fellow player mentioned while at ceol aneas a solid beat which mysteriously appeared in a recording another fellow session player made. It was soon made very clear when someone pointed out that the microphone for the recorder had been placed on the wooden floor. The collective foot tap was not only coming through but the mic mini stand was bouncing on the floor.
# Posted on June 26th 2007 by Joze
Re: Foot tapping
I don't think I tap my feet when playing - probably a result of a lifetime playing in orchestras - but I do tend to tap my foot when not playing but listening to others.
Audible foot tapping is, quite rightly imo, frowned upon in orchestral and other classical music, but players do sometimes move their feet inaudibly when up against a strong counter-rhythm from another section of the orchestra. I remember many years ago seeing a performance of one of Chopin’s piano concertos, and at one stage the conductor was loudly stamping his foot on the podium desperately trying to get an errant solo pianist, who was evidently in a world of his own and not watching the conductor, back into some semblance of synchronisation with the orchestra. A shocking sight, I can tell you; I had to have a stiff drink afterwards
# Posted on June 27th 2007 by lazyhound
Re: Foot tapping
Yeah! I admire good classical players, but I find it sad that they have both feet stuck in the ground. It might help to get a good technique.
I think tapping your feet help to put some swing in the tune. Plus, in Québec at least, fiddlers often played alone for dances and foot tapping would give accompaniment.
Podorythm is an art in itself. You can do the basic québécois style but there are lot of variations you can include... triplets, quads...etc. it gets more complicated if you play an instrument at the same time. Some people are really good at it. Michel Bordeleau a founding member of La Bottine is great at it. And he is not alone.
We are not talking about stomping to go through the floor, this is really annoying in session. There are shoes with a piece of metal on the toe and on the heal. It makes a neat sound.
But, a good tip to switch from classic to trad music, tap your foot once every third or fourth beat while playing or dance (while not playing), then you get the beat of trad music.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/12191/comments#comment248655
But, the important thing in trad music is to have fun
# Posted on June 29th 2007 by Carabus