Does anyone else get a 'rogue first line' when they paste ABCs from the trilian ABC tune finder into the concertina.net ABC converter? I get an almost identical first line of nonsense notation when I do this and it does not happen with ABCs from other sources.
This is a pain when trying to create tune sets or just large easy-to-read PDFs of tunes to learn.
Similar tales of woe or suggested fixes are welcome.
Just had a fiddle with it myself, and worked out that JC's trillian files always have an "F:" header, which causes faults in the conversion process unless you delete it. I think it's because the info in the F: header contains web addresses and dates/times with colon signs. This confuses the converter into thinking there are more headers, and it can't recognise what's a header and what's not anymore, so it produces the rogue 1st line of notes. JC's is a great site but it does have its faults. I think it's bad practice on the part of the designer of the site. It should be obvious to anyone dealing with abc files that putting in colons like that is gonna mess things up.
I had a similar problem when I tried to paste to convert from The Fiddler's Companion. I had to go back and backspace so there were no spaces between lines in the pasted version on the converter site. But it works beautifully now that I figured it out.
It's not the colons that cause the problem; rather, it's the fact that the concertina.net converter doesn't support the F: header at all. An F: header of any sort messes up the notation, even if the data portion of the header is blank.
But this isn't concertina.net's fault. The last official abc standard (v. 1.6) says F: can be used "elsewhere" in the file but doesn't seem to support its use as a header. See the link to the standard on http://www.walshaw.plus.com/abc/learn.html.
I'd prefer that JC took out the F: entirely, but, hey, it's his site and he must have a use for it. I've just gotten in the habit of deleting the whole F: line before saving the file or pasting it into the concertina.net converter.
This may not win much support, but here goes.
A little knowledge of abc notation will go a long ways.
If there are problems with the header use them the way Jeremy does:
X:1
T:ABC Jig
M:6/8
L:1/8 [only needed to change default note length]
R:Jig [optional
K:D
The other infomational fields are not essential -
[C:Composer S:Source Z:Transcriber R:Rhythm F:File url]
Try deleting them & see if it changes the score.
I have to warn you though, "!Always Credit Your Source!"
That is the reason John Chambers includes the file url
He does not alter much if anything from the original transcriber.
It is possible to trace it back to the original through the url.
If altering the header does not fix the problem you can try editing the body.
It should begin directly below the last information field.
Check spacing & line breaks.
There is a discussion board on the concertina site http://www.concertina.net/forums/
If you suspect a problem with concertina you might want to write Paul Schwartz.
Sorry for the lecture. Do I pass the audition for TheSession Brain Police?
Cheers
Thanks for adding the link to Chris Walshaw.
He says this about headers
"Finally note that any line beginning with a letter in the range A-Z and immediately followed by a : is interpreted as a field (so that line like E:|, which could be regarded as an E followed by a right repeat symbol, will cause an error)." http://www.walshaw.plus.com/abc/abc2mtex/abc.txt
It would be nice to have an example. I used a J.C. tune in the Tune-O-Tron (including the F: field) & it printed O.K.
Perhaps a longer url could jam things up.
I Tried as well and the tuneotron converted the url adress into one line of (sick) music.
Drive around soultion: Replace the F: by a S: so you have still the information.
Oops, so it's concertina.net's fault. Ok, well I still have to pin the blame on someone and direct my wrath, so here goes: "concertina.net is a great site but it does have its faults. I think it's bad practice on the part of the designer of the site."
Another thing that irritates me about the concertina.net Tune-O-Tron is that you can't get nice printouts of multiple tunes off the one submission. Meh, it's a freebie I suppose
Stray, to answer your question, "Does anyone else get a 'rogue first line' when they paste ABCs from the trilian ABC tune finder into the concertina.net ABC converter?"
No, that does not happen with the abcs I have tried.
With the concertina.net Tune-O-Tron you can get 2 tunes on a pdf page by pasting the second tune after the first, then deleting the second X:1 line. Sometimes squeeze 3 tunes onto a page by deleting the T: and R: lines. But its hardly worth the mucking around.
At last . There is the rogue. Just like everybody said. Thank you Laitch for the link. Also thanks to swisspiper.
Changing the F: to S: gets rid of the extra line of music without having to delete the entire web address.
As far as Andrew Kuntz's double space . . . whoever said cut & paste would be easy?
It is possible to print out 3 tunes of 4 lines each, but you are allowed only to have twice a part description. Avoid empty lines.
BTW I like that output much better than the current and old 'dots' design here.
The double spacing on Andrew Kuntz's website will probably never change. Abc's are typically entered with the simplest of text editors. This was not the case on Fiddler's Companion. Each line of abc text was entered as a paragraph. Copying from the website results in double spacing. To use the copy you have to back space each line.
BTW I found out another interesting thing about using the convert-o-matic for JC files. This one actually works perfectly.
I have to go for a minute & will be right back. In the meantime look up Barn Dance Schottische at John Chambers. Change the F: to S: & paste into the convert-o-matic. That should work.
J.C. got this from TheSession http://thesession.org/tunes/display/5912
courtesy of Ceolachan.
John Chambers has some tunes with broken rhythm. He uses hyper text code to get them to display properly on a webpage. HTML does not work unless you get eveything just so.
The convert-a-matic understands the . . . YAWN . . .
Hey it works.
Anyway back to the rogue line: another work around.
You can change F: to S:
Or add % at the start of the F: line.
% represents a comment:
A % symbol will cause the remainder of any input line to be
ignored. (Chris Walshaw abc standard)
Muliple tunes are possible without deleting anything.
This should work:
Copy several tunes w/no space between tunes.
Leave the 1st tune as is.
Type % at the beginning of the 2nd & all subsequent tunes.
[ X:1 becomes %X:1]
% can be inserted in front of any header line causing trouble.
(eg. %R:jig)
The Convert-A-Matic will only display the 1st page of sheet music.
The PDF will show additional pages i f you have added more than 1 page worth of tunes.
Cheers
That % thing works, but it just means the whole thing becomes one tune, effectively. I can get the same effect just adding one T: header between 2 abc files joined together. It looks messy and there's no space between the tunes. I was rather hoping for a solution whereby you could simply have a list of SEPARATE abc files, separated by a blank line after each one, which would print out like a book. As in, like any other abc software
BTW each tune should already have a T: line in the header.
If they do not no title is displayed between the tunes.
Not sure what you mean by "adding one T:header "
Each tune consists of a header w/information fields &
the body w/abc text.
What I meant was that I can get exactly the same effect as your % method (i.e. a printout of 2 tunes, the second one with title in smaller font) just by going
so in other words, just using one header (the T: one) on the 2nd tune. That does exactly the same thing. The other abc software I'm talking about are some of the freebies available on the net, where you can simply cut and paste a list of like 100 tunes in abc, even if you have a line of spaces inbetween each, and get a printout that arranges it like a book. I forget the name of the software. One of the ones like ABCwin or ABCmus or something like that. The Tune-O-Tron is inferior from that point of view. The only reason I use it is because I rarely have to print out multiple tunes, and it's conveniently just there on a webpage, so it's quick and easy.
Like for example with better software you can cut and paste the whole page of this http://www.rblakeley.com/music/muscelt/blakeley.abc and it'll convert into a nice book format. Tune-O-Tron won't do that, and I don't know why because it should be a simple thing to ask it to do. It's just one of those annoying computer things I guess, where something doesn't work for no apparent reason.
I think my point is: is there any reason why an online converter can't deal with multiple abc files? It's not like I'd want it to have all the bells and whistles like tune organisation facilities like the - and let's be clear about this - software that you have to download. I'd just like to be able to get a nice printout of more than one tune at a time. Is that too much to ask of an online converter? Is there some difficulty in the programming side that I'm not aware of. I'm serious - I don't know about these things. That's why I'm asking.
& I would like to show up at every session with a pint of Guiness waiting for me & have each tune be brand new. Is that too much to ask?
Paul Schwartz told me he is updating the software. What you want is certainly possible. I do not anticipate it happening. Changes require time & probably expenses. Currently the site is free. Say Paul does what you want. He would get many more people logging on & he would have to maintain the site. All for free? That would be very generous. With more people Paul would receive more emails, comments, criticism, complaints . .
All for free?
Everything you ask can be done but it requires input with some software. If you have your own abc software & learn to use you will have more control than you can ever get through an online server.
Hope that helps.
Hey look, you did ask. In fact, you pestered till you got an answer about problems with the Tune-O-Tron if you remember? So nobody can really be miffed that I had a good moan. I'm only nitpicking. Like I said, I've found Tune-O-Tron to be very useful over the years. It's a very handy tool.
"Say Paul does what you want. He would get many more people logging on & he would have to maintain the site. All for free? That would be very generous."
Are you really saying that it's because many more people would log on that this feature wasn't added into the Tune-O-Tron? Blimey, how many people are into this tunes-in-abc-format-online thing. It must be more than I thought if the whole thing works out to be that costly.
I dunno, you tell me. You've said you "don't anticipate" Paul fixing it, so perhaps I wasted my time airing my views on the matter. All I said was that it's good, I use it a lot, but it does have its faults which are this, this, this and this. Can I go now please
Oh Dear Dow,
you must have a passion for music.
Do not let your pride get in the way.
I have many questions about traditional music
& there are some valuable resources here.
It is all a matter of who has the answers & how do I find
them. I cannot speak for the webmaster at
concertina.net I apologize if I assumed that position.
Cheers,
Auburn
ABC Converter rogue first line
ABC Converter rogue first line
Does anyone else get a 'rogue first line' when they paste ABCs from the trilian ABC tune finder into the concertina.net ABC converter? I get an almost identical first line of nonsense notation when I do this and it does not happen with ABCs from other sources.
This is a pain when trying to create tune sets or just large easy-to-read PDFs of tunes to learn.
Similar tales of woe or suggested fixes are welcome.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by straysider
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Just had a fiddle with it myself, and worked out that JC's trillian files always have an "F:" header, which causes faults in the conversion process unless you delete it. I think it's because the info in the F: header contains web addresses and dates/times with colon signs. This confuses the converter into thinking there are more headers, and it can't recognise what's a header and what's not anymore, so it produces the rogue 1st line of notes. JC's is a great site but it does have its faults. I think it's bad practice on the part of the designer of the site. It should be obvious to anyone dealing with abc files that putting in colons like that is gonna mess things up.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I had a similar problem when I tried to paste to convert from The Fiddler's Companion. I had to go back and backspace so there were no spaces between lines in the pasted version on the converter site. But it works beautifully now that I figured it out.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by crfiddler
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
It's not the colons that cause the problem; rather, it's the fact that the concertina.net converter doesn't support the F: header at all. An F: header of any sort messes up the notation, even if the data portion of the header is blank.
But this isn't concertina.net's fault. The last official abc standard (v. 1.6) says F: can be used "elsewhere" in the file but doesn't seem to support its use as a header. See the link to the standard on http://www.walshaw.plus.com/abc/learn.html.
I'd prefer that JC took out the F: entirely, but, hey, it's his site and he must have a use for it. I've just gotten in the habit of deleting the whole F: line before saving the file or pasting it into the concertina.net converter.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by boxist
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
This may not win much support, but here goes.
A little knowledge of abc notation will go a long ways.
If there are problems with the header use them the way Jeremy does:
X:1
T:ABC Jig
M:6/8
L:1/8 [only needed to change default note length]
R:Jig [optional
K:D
The other infomational fields are not essential -
[C:Composer S:Source Z:Transcriber R:Rhythm F:File url]
Try deleting them & see if it changes the score.
I have to warn you though, "!Always Credit Your Source!"
That is the reason John Chambers includes the file url
He does not alter much if anything from the original transcriber.
It is possible to trace it back to the original through the url.
If altering the header does not fix the problem you can try editing the body.
It should begin directly below the last information field.
Check spacing & line breaks.
There is a discussion board on the concertina site
http://www.concertina.net/forums/
If you suspect a problem with concertina you might want to write Paul Schwartz.
Sorry for the lecture. Do I pass the audition for TheSession Brain Police?
Cheers
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by Tonya
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Thanks for adding the link to Chris Walshaw.
He says this about headers
"Finally note that any line beginning with a letter in the range A-Z and immediately followed by a : is interpreted as a field (so that line like E:|, which could be regarded as an E followed by a right repeat symbol, will cause an error)."
http://www.walshaw.plus.com/abc/abc2mtex/abc.txt
It would be nice to have an example. I used a J.C. tune in the Tune-O-Tron (including the F: field) & it printed O.K.
Perhaps a longer url could jam things up.
# Posted on June 3rd 2007 by Tonya
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I Tried as well and the tuneotron converted the url adress into one line of (sick) music.
Drive around soultion: Replace the F: by a S: so you have still the information.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by swisspiper
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Oops, so it's concertina.net's fault. Ok, well I still have to pin the blame on someone and direct my wrath, so here goes: "concertina.net is a great site but it does have its faults. I think it's bad practice on the part of the designer of the site."
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Another thing that irritates me about the concertina.net Tune-O-Tron is that you can't get nice printouts of multiple tunes off the one submission. Meh, it's a freebie I suppose
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by Dow
No problem
Stray, to answer your question, "Does anyone else get a 'rogue first line' when they paste ABCs from the trilian ABC tune finder into the concertina.net ABC converter?"
No, that does not happen with the abcs I have tried.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Sleep tight Dow. It has been fun.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13993
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
What has?
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Hey Muse,
I cannot locate the source of their problem either.
Interesting thread but little resolution.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by Tonya
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
With the concertina.net Tune-O-Tron you can get 2 tunes on a pdf page by pasting the second tune after the first, then deleting the second X:1 line. Sometimes squeeze 3 tunes onto a page by deleting the T: and R: lines. But its hardly worth the mucking around.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by dogbox
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I’m certainly no ABC whiz but try this, pulled from JCs site:
X: 1
T:Cooley's
M:C|
E:7
Z:Boston
R:reel
F:http://jc.tzo.net/~jc/music/abc/mirror/kirby98.fsnet.co.uk/co/Cooleys_5.abc 2007-06-04 21:31:38 UT
K:EDor
D|EBBA B2 EB|B2 AB dBAG|(3FED AD BDAG|(3FED FA dAFD|EBBAB2 EB|B2 AB defg|afec dBAF|DEFD E3:|
gf|eB ~B2 efgf|eB ~B2 gedB|A2 FA DAFA|~A2 FA defg|eB~B2 efgf|eB ~B2 defg|afec dBAF|DEFD E2:|
I usually clean up headers from JCs, strip everything down to essentials:
X: 1
T:Cooley's
M:C
K:EDor
D|EBBA B2 EB|B2 AB dBAG|(3FED AD BDAG|(3FED FA dAFD|
EBBAB2 EB|B2 AB defg|afec dBAF|DEFD E3:|
gf|eB ~B2 efgf|eB ~B2 gedB|A2 FA DAFA|~A2 FA defg|
eB~B2 efgf|eB ~B2 defg|afec dBAF|DEFD E2:|
I’ve noticed that ABCs cut from Andrew Kuntz’s Fiddler’s Companion at
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/index.html
end up double spaced for some reason when I paste it.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by fidkid
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Hmm. I didn't realize the F: field would come out as a link.
# Posted on June 4th 2007 by fidkid
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
At last . There is the rogue. Just like everybody said. Thank you Laitch for the link. Also thanks to swisspiper.
Changing the F: to S: gets rid of the extra line of music without having to delete the entire web address.
As far as Andrew Kuntz's double space . . . whoever said cut & paste would be easy?
# Posted on June 5th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
It is possible to print out 3 tunes of 4 lines each, but you are allowed only to have twice a part description. Avoid empty lines.
BTW I like that output much better than the current and old 'dots' design here.
# Posted on June 5th 2007 by swisspiper
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
"At last . There is the rogue. Just like everybody said."
Yup, in fact, it's like that for all JC's cut & pastes, just like we all said, er, at the start of the thread.
# Posted on June 5th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
OK, so can anybody explain the double spacing phenomena from Kuntz's Fiddler's Companion site, as crfiddler and I pointed out? Just mildly curious.
# Posted on June 5th 2007 by fidkid
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
The double spacing on Andrew Kuntz's website will probably never change. Abc's are typically entered with the simplest of text editors. This was not the case on Fiddler's Companion. Each line of abc text was entered as a paragraph. Copying from the website results in double spacing. To use the copy you have to back space each line.
BTW I found out another interesting thing about using the convert-o-matic for JC files. This one actually works perfectly.
I have to go for a minute & will be right back. In the meantime look up Barn Dance Schottische at John Chambers. Change the F: to S: & paste into the convert-o-matic. That should work.
J.C. got this from TheSession http://thesession.org/tunes/display/5912
courtesy of Ceolachan.
# Posted on June 5th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
John Chambers has some tunes with broken rhythm. He uses hyper text code to get them to display properly on a webpage. HTML does not work unless you get eveything just so.
The convert-a-matic understands the . . . YAWN . . .
Hey it works.
Anyway back to the rogue line: another work around.
You can change F: to S:
Or add % at the start of the F: line.
% represents a comment:
A % symbol will cause the remainder of any input line to be
ignored. (Chris Walshaw abc standard)
# Posted on June 5th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Muliple tunes are possible without deleting anything.
This should work:
Copy several tunes w/no space between tunes.
Leave the 1st tune as is.
Type % at the beginning of the 2nd & all subsequent tunes.
[ X:1 becomes %X:1]
% can be inserted in front of any header line causing trouble.
(eg. %R:jig)
The Convert-A-Matic will only display the 1st page of sheet music.
The PDF will show additional pages i f you have added more than 1 page worth of tunes.
Cheers
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
That % thing works, but it just means the whole thing becomes one tune, effectively. I can get the same effect just adding one T: header between 2 abc files joined together. It looks messy and there's no space between the tunes. I was rather hoping for a solution whereby you could simply have a list of SEPARATE abc files, separated by a blank line after each one, which would print out like a book. As in, like any other abc software
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Which online software does that for you?
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
BTW each tune should already have a T: line in the header.
If they do not no title is displayed between the tunes.
Not sure what you mean by "adding one T:header "
Each tune consists of a header w/information fields &
the body w/abc text.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
What I meant was that I can get exactly the same effect as your % method (i.e. a printout of 2 tunes, the second one with title in smaller font) just by going
X:
T:
blah blah blah
All headers
..
..
tune 1
T:
tune 2
so in other words, just using one header (the T: one) on the 2nd tune. That does exactly the same thing. The other abc software I'm talking about are some of the freebies available on the net, where you can simply cut and paste a list of like 100 tunes in abc, even if you have a line of spaces inbetween each, and get a printout that arranges it like a book. I forget the name of the software. One of the ones like ABCwin or ABCmus or something like that. The Tune-O-Tron is inferior from that point of view. The only reason I use it is because I rarely have to print out multiple tunes, and it's conveniently just there on a webpage, so it's quick and easy.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Like for example with better software you can cut and paste the whole page of this http://www.rblakeley.com/music/muscelt/blakeley.abc and it'll convert into a nice book format. Tune-O-Tron won't do that, and I don't know why because it should be a simple thing to ask it to do. It's just one of those annoying computer things I guess, where something doesn't work for no apparent reason.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Abc2Win & abcmus are not online converters.
You download software to use them.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I never said they were online converters.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I think my point is: is there any reason why an online converter can't deal with multiple abc files? It's not like I'd want it to have all the bells and whistles like tune organisation facilities like the - and let's be clear about this - software that you have to download. I'd just like to be able to get a nice printout of more than one tune at a time. Is that too much to ask of an online converter? Is there some difficulty in the programming side that I'm not aware of. I'm serious - I don't know about these things. That's why I'm asking.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
& I would like to show up at every session with a pint of Guiness waiting for me & have each tune be brand new. Is that too much to ask?
Paul Schwartz told me he is updating the software. What you want is certainly possible. I do not anticipate it happening. Changes require time & probably expenses. Currently the site is free. Say Paul does what you want. He would get many more people logging on & he would have to maintain the site. All for free? That would be very generous. With more people Paul would receive more emails, comments, criticism, complaints . .
All for free?
Everything you ask can be done but it requires input with some software. If you have your own abc software & learn to use you will have more control than you can ever get through an online server.
Hope that helps.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
OK thanks.
Hey look, you did ask. In fact, you pestered till you got an answer about problems with the Tune-O-Tron if you remember? So nobody can really be miffed that I had a good moan. I'm only nitpicking. Like I said, I've found Tune-O-Tron to be very useful over the years. It's a very handy tool.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
"Say Paul does what you want. He would get many more people logging on & he would have to maintain the site. All for free? That would be very generous."
Are you really saying that it's because many more people would log on that this feature wasn't added into the Tune-O-Tron? Blimey, how many people are into this tunes-in-abc-format-online thing. It must be more than I thought if the whole thing works out to be that costly.
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
So it was all moot?
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I dunno, you tell me. You've said you "don't anticipate" Paul fixing it, so perhaps I wasted my time airing my views on the matter. All I said was that it's good, I use it a lot, but it does have its faults which are this, this, this and this. Can I go now please
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Dow
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
I am very confused. Do you actually know how to print out sheet music using your own software?
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes
Re: ABC Converter rogue first line
Oh Dear Dow,
you must have a passion for music.
Do not let your pride get in the way.
I have many questions about traditional music
& there are some valuable resources here.
It is all a matter of who has the answers & how do I find
them. I cannot speak for the webmaster at
concertina.net I apologize if I assumed that position.
Cheers,
Auburn
# Posted on June 7th 2007 by Random_notes